Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 565 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16921 of 16936 Old Yesterday, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

How much are we going to spend for a full featured UHD DLP projector?
$50k for the Barco Loki lol
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post #16922 of 16936 Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Selling a native 1500:1 4k projector is exponentially easier than selling a 2000:1 1080p projector.
True. However, while anything is possible I doubt that doubling the pixel count on the same sized chip only cost that much on/off CR. From a marketing standpoint selling a 2.7k+eShift machine with 1500:1 where you can call it 4K by the CTA standard is probably easier than selling a 1080p+eShift projector even if that one had 2500:1. Probably even easier than if the latter had 3000:1 on/off CR. However, some people who understand all the parameters might actually prefer the 2nd one. It goes to what they value more for their particular setup.

On the other hand, I hadn't considered the selective eShift thing. With 1080p+eShift they may have wanted to shift all pixels or none of them.
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... since XPR will now show more pixel grid than Native 4K or e-Shift ...
This is true, but since they are native 2.7k this is less of an issue than if they had used 1080p chips and added eShift. They may feel that 2.7k is enough to make SDE a non-issue for most people. Might be nice if we had the option to shift the whole image for those who would see the grid pattern otherwise, but I doubt they will add that.

I do wonder whether a person sitting close enough might see a screendoor effect that comes and goes depending on whether the pixels are being shifted, but given that the eShift may only happen in very high detail areas, that may not be a problem in real world use.

--Darin
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post #16923 of 16936 Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
$50k for the Barco Loki lol
it looks like at least a year + before we'll see a full featured UHD DLP under 10K. Maybe they can shoe-horn 3D back in by that time but not likely.

I don't see why BenQ @ $5,000 wouldn't be able to add automated lens controls in that huge W series chassis. My 2012-2013 era Sharp 30K 3D DLP has electronic focus, H &V shift (the real deal) and lens memory.
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post #16924 of 16936 Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it looks like at least a year + before we'll see a full featured UHD DLP under 10K. Maybe they can shoe-horn 3D back in by that time but not likely.

I don't see why BenQ @ $5,000 wouldn't be able to add automated lens controls in that huge W series chassis. My 2012-2013 era Sharp 30K 3D DLP has electronic focus, H &V shift (the real deal) and lens memory.
Exactly. I alluded to this elsewhere and was told it was to keep costs down - but at $3500-5K it should be there.

I would be open to trying DLP at this point (even with lower native contrast) if it had decent H&V shift, lens memories, and no RBE. I saw rainbows like crazy on the BenQ HT2050.
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post #16925 of 16936 Old Today, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it looks like at least a year + before we'll see a full featured UHD DLP under 10K. Maybe they can shoe-horn 3D back in by that time but not likely.

I don't see why BenQ @ $5,000 wouldn't be able to add automated lens controls in that huge W series chassis. My 2012-2013 era Sharp 30K 3D DLP has electronic focus, H &V shift (the real deal) and lens memory.
I can't think of any DLP projector released in past 5 years that had automated lens controls under $10,000. Not even the Vivitek H9090 or H8030 which both came in just under $10k MSRP. And honestly if I were requesting things for a DLP manufacturer to spend money on to improve this would be at the very bottom of my list. I'd rather have a 5% better lens, for instance, than automated controls.

Fully automated lens controls are nice but in my usage are not useful in any way at all. I set the projector once and it is generally good for years. Not interested in CIH since by far 1.78:1-1.85:1 is the dominant aspect ratio but if I were I'd probably go with the Panamorph Paladin lens option, just seems more the optically correct route for what is trying to be accomplished despite being more expensive - and the W11000/W11500 chassis natively supports mounting of and has software settings specifically designed to accommodate the Panamorph Paladin.

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post #16926 of 16936 Old Today, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
UHD65
Now that it appears the VIVITEK HK2288 is going to be priced at MSRP $3499 and given your like of Delta light engines, are you considering in doing a Delta vs Coretronics DLP 4K UHD entry level projector shootout to see if Delta has indeed beaten out Coretronics here - and if it is worth the extra $1k for the HK2288/what do you get for your money?

https://www.vivitekusa.com/productdetail/HK2288/
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post #16927 of 16936 Old Today, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Not interested in CIH since by far 1.78:1-1.85:1 is the dominant aspect ratio
For some reason about half of the movies in my collection are scope. Might have to do with my taste in movies, though. Anyway, enjoying CIH here.
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post #16928 of 16936 Old Today, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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SharpVision XV-Z30000 1920x1080 DLP 3D - full automated lens controls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I can't think of any DLP projector released in past 5 years that had automated lens controls under $10,000.

They made them and in a relatively compact chassis - and with full lens shift capabilities - same range as the LCOS/SXRD projectors.

There's no excuse for BenQ to charge $5,000 for that huge chassis and still have to squint at the screen when trying to manually focus. Still stuck @ R709 for all that $$.




Vivitek @ $3500 still has all the same limitations as the UHD65 - difficult mounting restrictions and all manual controls.
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post #16929 of 16936 Old Today, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
For some reason about half of the movies in my collection are scope. Might have to do with my taste in movies, though. Anyway, enjoying CIH here.
The vast majority of movies in my collection are Scope, it's generally the format of choice for big budget blockbuster type movies. Of course overall production tends to be about 50/50, and when you factor in non-movie content, then yeah, 16:9 dwarfs scope content.

It really just depends on your taste, and more importantly, it depends on your perspective on presentation. If you're like me (and most other CIH users), and think that epic, blockbuster, scope movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc, should be larger like they were when presented properly in the theater, then it's a no-brainer to go CIH. If you're the type who just wants as many square inches of your screen covered as possible, as much of the time as possible, then 16:9 makes more sense if you watch a lot of non-movie content.
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post #16930 of 16936 Old Today, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The vast majority of movies in my collection are Scope, it's generally the format of choice for big budget blockbuster type movies. Of course overall production tends to be about 50/50, and when you factor in non-movie content, then yeah, 16:9 dwarfs scope content.

It really just depends on your taste, and more importantly, it depends on your perspective on presentation. If you're like me (and most other CIH users), and think that epic, blockbuster, scope movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc, should be larger like they were when presented properly in the theater, then it's a no-brainer to go CIH. If you're the type who just wants as many square inches of your screen covered as possible, as much of the time as possible, then 16:9 makes more sense if you watch a lot of non-movie content.
Its funny, I spent years with a 16:9 screen and it always annoyed me that scope movies didn't have the impact they should have, so when the wife finally allowed me to have a dedicated room, I went with a nice curved 2.35 screen with an A-lens for a CIH set-up. I was bowled over by the new cinematic scale of scope movies. However it took only a few months for me to become annoyed that 16:9 movies and games didn't have the impact they should.

I have just recently built myself a new DIY screen, with electronic masking (still in progress), and have created a Constant Image Area (CIA) setup, and I'm finally happy with the scale. 16:9 movies and games now look large enough and have enough impact, but when I switch to 2.35, there is still a sufficient and apparent increase in scale for scope movies.

I couldn't be happier with it and I'd thoroughly recommend to anyone willing to put the effort in, to consider going with a CIA set-up.
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post #16931 of 16936 Old Today, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
They made them and in a relatively compact chassis - and with full lens shift capabilities - same range as the LCOS/SXRD projectors.

There's no excuse for BenQ to charge $5,000 for that huge chassis and still have to squint at the screen when trying to manually focus. Still stuck @ R709 for all that $$.




Vivitek @ $3500 still has all the same limitations as the UHD65 - difficult mounting restrictions and all manual controls.
Ha so you can name 1 that came out in 2012 with over 100 models since then. Proves my point. You really can't find a friend to twist a dial for 30 seconds 1 time? Most people don't care much about this feature so the dlp manufs instead lower cost or put money towards stuff people care more about.

Rec709 has nothing to do with cost, it's that sequential color saps too much light from reasonably powered bulbs to make p3 25% additional hit worthwhile. BenQ has led x12000 in same chassis with p3, for instance. Even w/ 310w lamp Vivitek engineers says p3 is too much of a lumens hit.

Bottom line laser or led required for p3 dlp. Placement flexibility probably not mandatory for most and minimal shift keeps pj price low while still having very sharp lens.

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post #16932 of 16936 Old Today, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Its funny, I spent years with a 16:9 screen and it always annoyed me that scope movies didn't have the impact they should have, so when the wife finally allowed me to have a dedicated room, I went with a nice curved 2.35 screen with an A-lens for a CIH set-up. I was bowled over by the new cinematic scale of scope movies. However it took only a few months for me to become annoyed that 16:9 movies and games didn't have the impact they should.

I have just recently built myself a new DIY screen, with electronic masking (still in progress), and have created a Constant Image Area (CIA) setup, and I'm finally happy with the scale. 16:9 movies and games now look large enough and have enough impact, but when I switch to 2.35, there is still a sufficient and apparent increase in scale for scope movies.

I couldn't be happier with it and I'd thoroughly recommend to anyone willing to put the effort in, to consider going with a CIA set-up.
Great way to go. CIA area is the ultimate in my opinion. Done with either masking or two screens. I have that in a way. I have two systems. My TV system is 16:9 and my movie system is scope. Do you have a thread on your screen?

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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Ha so you can name 1 that came out in 2012 with over 100 models since then. Proves my point. You really can't find a friend to twist a dial for 30 seconds 1 time? Most people don't care much about this feature so the dlp manufs instead lower cost or put money towards stuff people care more about.

Rec709 has nothing to do with cost, it's that sequential color saps too much light from reasonably powered bulbs to make p3 25% additional hit worthwhile. BenQ has led x12000 in same chassis with p3, for instance. Even w/ 310w lamp Vivitek says p3 too much lumens hit.

Bottom line laser or led required for p3 dlp. Placement flexibility probably not mandatory for most and minimal shift keeps pj price low while still having very sharp lens.
It is always about cost. Adding a larger lamp adds a lot of cost, due to larger lamp, larger power supply, larger housing and more fans for cooling. Larger size and heavier projector means quite a bit higher transportation cost to bring to the US.

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post #16934 of 16936 Old Today, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Its funny, I spent years with a 16:9 screen and it always annoyed me that scope movies didn't have the impact they should have, so when the wife finally allowed me to have a dedicated room, I went with a nice curved 2.35 screen with an A-lens for a CIH set-up. I was bowled over by the new cinematic scale of scope movies. However it took only a few months for me to become annoyed that 16:9 movies and games didn't have the impact they should.
IMO, that just means you didn't go big enough with your scope screen I never find 16:9 lacking in my setup.
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post #16935 of 16936 Old Today, 06:56 AM
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Great way to go. CIA area is the ultimate in my opinion. Done with either masking or two screens. I have that in a way. I have two systems. My TV system is 16:9 and my movie system is scope. Do you have a thread on your screen?
No I don't have a thread on it at the minute Mike. I may put one together when its done if I get time - at the minute, with three kids, I barely get time to spend building it, let alone writing about it. The sides masks are done and working, bar a little tweaking, I just need to finish the top mask (my masks are 3 way) - but I have recently been a little side track with sorting the automated control system to automatically operate the masks and projector lens memory on changes in aspect ratio.
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post #16936 of 16936 Old Today, 07:01 AM
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IMO, that just means you didn't go big enough with your scope screen I never find 16:9 lacking in my setup.
Perhaps - I am at the limit of my room width, though personally I wouldn't want to go much bigger with scope than I have now, and 16:9 still wouldn't be satisfying enough. But each to their own I guess, if you're happy, good for you! Stick on good scope movie though - say, Oblivion or Mad Max - and then switch to a good 16:9 movie - say Pacific Rim, or Jurassic Park - and tell me if your 16:9 screen size portrays the latter with sufficient scale to match the former?
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