Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 565 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16921 of 18249 Old 06-27-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

How much are we going to spend for a full featured UHD DLP projector?
$50k for the Barco Loki lol
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post #16922 of 18249 Old 06-27-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Selling a native 1500:1 4k projector is exponentially easier than selling a 2000:1 1080p projector.
True. However, while anything is possible I doubt that doubling the pixel count on the same sized chip only cost that much on/off CR. From a marketing standpoint selling a 2.7k+eShift machine with 1500:1 where you can call it 4K by the CTA standard is probably easier than selling a 1080p+eShift projector even if that one had 2500:1. Probably even easier than if the latter had 3000:1 on/off CR. However, some people who understand all the parameters might actually prefer the 2nd one. It goes to what they value more for their particular setup.

On the other hand, I hadn't considered the selective eShift thing. With 1080p+eShift they may have wanted to shift all pixels or none of them.
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... since XPR will now show more pixel grid than Native 4K or e-Shift ...
This is true, but since they are native 2.7k this is less of an issue than if they had used 1080p chips and added eShift. They may feel that 2.7k is enough to make SDE a non-issue for most people. Might be nice if we had the option to shift the whole image for those who would see the grid pattern otherwise, but I doubt they will add that.

I do wonder whether a person sitting close enough might see a screendoor effect that comes and goes depending on whether the pixels are being shifted, but given that the eShift may only happen in very high detail areas, that may not be a problem in real world use.

--Darin
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post #16923 of 18249 Old 06-27-2017, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
$50k for the Barco Loki lol
it looks like at least a year + before we'll see a full featured UHD DLP under 10K. Maybe they can shoe-horn 3D back in by that time but not likely.

I don't see why BenQ @ $5,000 wouldn't be able to add automated lens controls in that huge W series chassis. My 2012-2013 era Sharp 30K 3D DLP has electronic focus, H &V shift (the real deal) and lens memory.
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post #16924 of 18249 Old 06-27-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it looks like at least a year + before we'll see a full featured UHD DLP under 10K. Maybe they can shoe-horn 3D back in by that time but not likely.

I don't see why BenQ @ $5,000 wouldn't be able to add automated lens controls in that huge W series chassis. My 2012-2013 era Sharp 30K 3D DLP has electronic focus, H &V shift (the real deal) and lens memory.
Exactly. I alluded to this elsewhere and was told it was to keep costs down - but at $3500-5K it should be there.

I would be open to trying DLP at this point (even with lower native contrast) if it had decent H&V shift, lens memories, and no RBE. I saw rainbows like crazy on the BenQ HT2050.
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post #16925 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it looks like at least a year + before we'll see a full featured UHD DLP under 10K. Maybe they can shoe-horn 3D back in by that time but not likely.

I don't see why BenQ @ $5,000 wouldn't be able to add automated lens controls in that huge W series chassis. My 2012-2013 era Sharp 30K 3D DLP has electronic focus, H &V shift (the real deal) and lens memory.
I can't think of any DLP projector released in past 5 years that had automated lens controls under $10,000. Not even the Vivitek H9090 or H8030 which both came in just under $10k MSRP. And honestly if I were requesting things for a DLP manufacturer to spend money on to improve this would be at the very bottom of my list. I'd rather have a 5% better lens, for instance, than automated controls.

Fully automated lens controls are nice but in my usage are not useful in any way at all. I set the projector once and it is generally good for years. Not interested in CIH since by far 1.78:1-1.85:1 is the dominant aspect ratio but if I were I'd probably go with the Panamorph Paladin lens option, just seems more the optically correct route for what is trying to be accomplished despite being more expensive - and the W11000/W11500 chassis natively supports mounting of and has software settings specifically designed to accommodate the Panamorph Paladin.

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post #16926 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
UHD65
Now that it appears the VIVITEK HK2288 is going to be priced at MSRP $3499 and given your like of Delta light engines, are you considering in doing a Delta vs Coretronics DLP 4K UHD entry level projector shootout to see if Delta has indeed beaten out Coretronics here - and if it is worth the extra $1k for the HK2288/what do you get for your money?

https://www.vivitekusa.com/productdetail/HK2288/
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post #16927 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 05:09 AM
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Not interested in CIH since by far 1.78:1-1.85:1 is the dominant aspect ratio
For some reason about half of the movies in my collection are scope. Might have to do with my taste in movies, though. Anyway, enjoying CIH here.
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post #16928 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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SharpVision XV-Z30000 1920x1080 DLP 3D - full automated lens controls

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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I can't think of any DLP projector released in past 5 years that had automated lens controls under $10,000.

They made them and in a relatively compact chassis - and with full lens shift capabilities - same range as the LCOS/SXRD projectors.

There's no excuse for BenQ to charge $5,000 for that huge chassis and still have to squint at the screen when trying to manually focus. Still stuck @ R709 for all that $$.




Vivitek @ $3500 still has all the same limitations as the UHD65 - difficult mounting restrictions and all manual controls.
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post #16929 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
For some reason about half of the movies in my collection are scope. Might have to do with my taste in movies, though. Anyway, enjoying CIH here.
The vast majority of movies in my collection are Scope, it's generally the format of choice for big budget blockbuster type movies. Of course overall production tends to be about 50/50, and when you factor in non-movie content, then yeah, 16:9 dwarfs scope content.

It really just depends on your taste, and more importantly, it depends on your perspective on presentation. If you're like me (and most other CIH users), and think that epic, blockbuster, scope movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc, should be larger like they were when presented properly in the theater, then it's a no-brainer to go CIH. If you're the type who just wants as many square inches of your screen covered as possible, as much of the time as possible, then 16:9 makes more sense if you watch a lot of non-movie content.
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post #16930 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The vast majority of movies in my collection are Scope, it's generally the format of choice for big budget blockbuster type movies. Of course overall production tends to be about 50/50, and when you factor in non-movie content, then yeah, 16:9 dwarfs scope content.

It really just depends on your taste, and more importantly, it depends on your perspective on presentation. If you're like me (and most other CIH users), and think that epic, blockbuster, scope movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc, should be larger like they were when presented properly in the theater, then it's a no-brainer to go CIH. If you're the type who just wants as many square inches of your screen covered as possible, as much of the time as possible, then 16:9 makes more sense if you watch a lot of non-movie content.
Its funny, I spent years with a 16:9 screen and it always annoyed me that scope movies didn't have the impact they should have, so when the wife finally allowed me to have a dedicated room, I went with a nice curved 2.35 screen with an A-lens for a CIH set-up. I was bowled over by the new cinematic scale of scope movies. However it took only a few months for me to become annoyed that 16:9 movies and games didn't have the impact they should.

I have just recently built myself a new DIY screen, with electronic masking (still in progress), and have created a Constant Image Area (CIA) setup, and I'm finally happy with the scale. 16:9 movies and games now look large enough and have enough impact, but when I switch to 2.35, there is still a sufficient and apparent increase in scale for scope movies.

I couldn't be happier with it and I'd thoroughly recommend to anyone willing to put the effort in, to consider going with a CIA set-up.
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post #16931 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
They made them and in a relatively compact chassis - and with full lens shift capabilities - same range as the LCOS/SXRD projectors.

There's no excuse for BenQ to charge $5,000 for that huge chassis and still have to squint at the screen when trying to manually focus. Still stuck @ R709 for all that $$.




Vivitek @ $3500 still has all the same limitations as the UHD65 - difficult mounting restrictions and all manual controls.
Ha so you can name 1 that came out in 2012 with over 100 models since then. Proves my point. You really can't find a friend to twist a dial for 30 seconds 1 time? Most people don't care much about this feature so the dlp manufs instead lower cost or put money towards stuff people care more about.

Rec709 has nothing to do with cost, it's that sequential color saps too much light from reasonably powered bulbs to make p3 25% additional hit worthwhile. BenQ has led x12000 in same chassis with p3, for instance. Even w/ 310w lamp Vivitek engineers says p3 is too much of a lumens hit.

Bottom line laser or led required for p3 dlp. Placement flexibility probably not mandatory for most and minimal shift keeps pj price low while still having very sharp lens.

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post #16932 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Its funny, I spent years with a 16:9 screen and it always annoyed me that scope movies didn't have the impact they should have, so when the wife finally allowed me to have a dedicated room, I went with a nice curved 2.35 screen with an A-lens for a CIH set-up. I was bowled over by the new cinematic scale of scope movies. However it took only a few months for me to become annoyed that 16:9 movies and games didn't have the impact they should.

I have just recently built myself a new DIY screen, with electronic masking (still in progress), and have created a Constant Image Area (CIA) setup, and I'm finally happy with the scale. 16:9 movies and games now look large enough and have enough impact, but when I switch to 2.35, there is still a sufficient and apparent increase in scale for scope movies.

I couldn't be happier with it and I'd thoroughly recommend to anyone willing to put the effort in, to consider going with a CIA set-up.
Great way to go. CIA area is the ultimate in my opinion. Done with either masking or two screens. I have that in a way. I have two systems. My TV system is 16:9 and my movie system is scope. Do you have a thread on your screen?

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post #16933 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Ha so you can name 1 that came out in 2012 with over 100 models since then. Proves my point. You really can't find a friend to twist a dial for 30 seconds 1 time? Most people don't care much about this feature so the dlp manufs instead lower cost or put money towards stuff people care more about.

Rec709 has nothing to do with cost, it's that sequential color saps too much light from reasonably powered bulbs to make p3 25% additional hit worthwhile. BenQ has led x12000 in same chassis with p3, for instance. Even w/ 310w lamp Vivitek says p3 too much lumens hit.

Bottom line laser or led required for p3 dlp. Placement flexibility probably not mandatory for most and minimal shift keeps pj price low while still having very sharp lens.
It is always about cost. Adding a larger lamp adds a lot of cost, due to larger lamp, larger power supply, larger housing and more fans for cooling. Larger size and heavier projector means quite a bit higher transportation cost to bring to the US.

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post #16934 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Its funny, I spent years with a 16:9 screen and it always annoyed me that scope movies didn't have the impact they should have, so when the wife finally allowed me to have a dedicated room, I went with a nice curved 2.35 screen with an A-lens for a CIH set-up. I was bowled over by the new cinematic scale of scope movies. However it took only a few months for me to become annoyed that 16:9 movies and games didn't have the impact they should.
IMO, that just means you didn't go big enough with your scope screen I never find 16:9 lacking in my setup.
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post #16935 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 06:56 AM
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Great way to go. CIA area is the ultimate in my opinion. Done with either masking or two screens. I have that in a way. I have two systems. My TV system is 16:9 and my movie system is scope. Do you have a thread on your screen?
No I don't have a thread on it at the minute Mike. I may put one together when its done if I get time - at the minute, with three kids, I barely get time to spend building it, let alone writing about it. The sides masks are done and working, bar a little tweaking, I just need to finish the top mask (my masks are 3 way) - but I have recently been a little side track with sorting the automated control system to automatically operate the masks and projector lens memory on changes in aspect ratio.
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post #16936 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 07:01 AM
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IMO, that just means you didn't go big enough with your scope screen I never find 16:9 lacking in my setup.
Perhaps - I am at the limit of my room width, though personally I wouldn't want to go much bigger with scope than I have now, and 16:9 still wouldn't be satisfying enough. But each to their own I guess, if you're happy, good for you! Stick on good scope movie though - say, Oblivion or Mad Max - and then switch to a good 16:9 movie - say Pacific Rim, or Jurassic Park - and tell me if your 16:9 screen size portrays the latter with sufficient scale to match the former?
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post #16937 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Ha so you can name 1 that came out in 2012 with over 100 models since then. Proves my point. You really can't find a friend to twist a dial for 30 seconds 1 time? Most people don't care much about this feature so the dlp manufs instead lower cost or put money towards stuff people care more about.

Rec709 has nothing to do with cost, it's that sequential color saps too much light from reasonably powered bulbs to make p3 25% additional hit worthwhile. BenQ has led x12000 in same chassis with p3, for instance. Even w/ 310w lamp Vivitek engineers says p3 is too much of a lumens hit.

Bottom line laser or led required for p3 dlp. Placement flexibility probably not mandatory for most and minimal shift keeps pj price low while still having very sharp lens.

These new DLP's are still half-baked for UHD HDR content until they properly support WCG.

There's still no excuse for the BenQ to cost $5,000 without features found in $2,000 LCD models. This projector is huge, stick another lamp in there for extra lumens / full P3 support.



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post #16938 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 07:49 AM
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Perhaps - I am at the limit of my room width, though personally I wouldn't want to go much bigger with scope than I have now, and 16:9 still wouldn't be satisfying enough. But each to their own I guess, if you're happy, good for you!
I'm kind of the opposite, while everything could be a little bigger, I think 16:9 being significantly taller than it is now would be overwhelming.

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Stick on good scope movie though - say, Oblivion or Mad Max - and then switch to a good 16:9 movie - say Pacific Rim, or Jurassic Park - and tell me if your 16:9 screen size portrays the latter with sufficient scale to match the former?
I guess I just differ to the director/DOP. They knew when they chose that AR, that when shown in a theater it would be much smaller (area) than scope. Pacific Rim looks great in my setup, and I don't find it feels "cheated".
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post #16939 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 08:11 AM
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There's still no excuse for the BenQ to cost $5,000 without features found in $2,000 LCD models. This projector is huge, stick another lamp in there for extra lumens / full P3 support.
Sticking another high powered lamp in isn't a good idea for a consumer DLP. It doubles the lamp cost and the projector would sound like a 747 when running to keep both lamps cool.

Once again BenQ already has P3 in the same chassis with the LED-based X12000. Laser/LED is the solution to P3 in 4k DLP, as DLP manufacturers have stated.

Finally, no $2000 LCD offers native 4k-like sharpness for video, so that statement is false.

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post #16940 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Sticking another high powered lamp in isn't a good idea for a consumer DLP. It doubles the lamp cost and the projector would sound like a 747 when running to keep both lamps cool.

Once again BenQ already has P3 in the same chassis with the LED-based X12000. Laser/LED is the solution to P3 in 4k DLP, as DLP manufacturers have stated.

Finally, no $2000 LCD offers native 4k-like sharpness for video, so that statement is false.

it's not false in any regard that they have P3 support and motorized lens shift for only $2,000.

I love DLP and now own 5 DLP's (another DLP arriving today) but this is still a pile of excuses at $5,000 no matter how it's spun...

hopefully they get out of beta mode in year + and offer a full feature set for UHD HDR.
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post #16941 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 08:28 AM
 
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it's not false in any regard that they have P3 support and motorized lens shift for only $2,000.

I love DLP and now own 5 DLP's (another DLP arriving today) but this is still a pile of excuses at $5,000 no matter how it's spun...

hopefully they get out of beta mode in year + and offer a full feature set for UHD HDR.
Which DLP are you getting today?
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post #16942 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 08:43 AM
 
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They made them and in a relatively compact chassis - and with full lens shift capabilities - same range as the LCOS/SXRD projectors.

There's no excuse for BenQ to charge $5,000 for that huge chassis and still have to squint at the screen when trying to manually focus. Still stuck @ R709 for all that $$.




Vivitek @ $3500 still has all the same limitations as the UHD65 - difficult mounting restrictions and all manual controls.
I agree. If Epson can add P3 support and a fully motorized high quality lens at the $2200 price point with their new Home Cinema 4000 eshift projector, I feel like Optoma, BenQ and Acer have no excuse not to include it in their projectors. The big issue is that the addition of a motorized lens isn't actually up to them. Coretronics and Delta need to make that call and I highly doubt it's going to happen at these price points. The Sharp XV-Z30000 is a Delta OEM projector and offered motorized optics, but I wonder if Sharp had to twist their arm to get them to add motorized lens controls to this model? If a few of us here wanted to sell our own projector we could by going through Delta or Coretronics but we'd still be limited by the performance metrics they set when they design an OEM product. I also think that most of these models are designed first for business use and later tweaked and modified for home theater application use. This is going to limit these projectors quite a bit. There are Sharp XV-Z30000 look-a-like projectors out there geared specifically for business/education use and the same goes for just about every other sub $5000 DLP projector out there too. It makes sense for them to design a one-size-fits-all light engine so they can use it for several projector models and for different use cases. We just don't have anyone designing DLP projectors in the sub $10000 market 100% for home theater use anymore and that's a problem. We need to make it economically sound for Delta/Coretronics to make a home theater centric projector from the ground up by showing them there'd be heavy interest in such a model, otherwise we're going to being stuck with business-class contrast on all of these XPR models. With said, who's going to be willing to pay $5000 for a DLP model that still only offers 3000-4000:1 native contrast when we have reflective LCD based technologies that can do an order of magnitude more? Are we kidding ourselves to think that even if we doubled the native contrast of these machines we're actually going to start caring about them enough to purchase one for main movie use? No, I don't think that's the case. DLP is dead until they can become competitive in on/off contrast, lumen output and color gamut capabilities. Will that ever happen? I don't think so or at least for a long time until dual DMD light engines are made.
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post #16943 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 08:46 AM
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Which DLP are you getting today?
Frankly I think the UHD65 gets the job done but with the HK2288, UHZ65, and W11500 (maybe even X12500) all launching in the next 0-3 months it would be best to wait and see what the competition offers since I already have a functioning pj.

Finding it hard to spend over 5k on 1080p pj.

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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Frankly I think the UHD65 gets the job done but with the HK2288, UHZ65, and W11500 (maybe even X12500) all launching in the next 0-3 months it would be best to wait and see what the competition offers since I already have a functioning pj.
I do like the UHD65, but I want to keep things in perspective here. In the sub $3000 market it's a great choice at the moment. But it's feature-set and raw performance compared to the units we discuss in this subforum is not favorable. The JVCs and Sony 4K models that MSRP for under $10000 have about twice the lumen output which is sorely needed for HDR. They also still support 3D. Contrast is insanely better on these projectors, both have fully motorized lenses with lens memory, the JVC offers two 18 Gbps ports and P3 color gamut support. There's just a lot weighing against DLP at the moment. The HK2288 will be interesting because it will have more brightness and possibly more contrast performance, but I just can't see it being enough of an improvement to actually give the JVC and Sony projectors a run for their money in overall picture performance. I love DLP (I have 2 DLP units here at the moment) but the performance gap has widened so far over the last 3-5 years it's becoming, in my opinion, next to impossible for DLP to make a comeback in this price market. DLP I think is doomed to be an entry-level performance option for the remainder of it's lifetime. The ultra-high end DLP market seems to be dead with only a handful of people buying commercial grade units simply because there's nothing LCD-based bright enough for their massive screens and for everyone else in the $20000+ market they seem to be buying either the 5000ES from Sony or RS4500 from JVC.

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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Finding it hard to spend over 5k on 1080p pj.
For $5000, the JVC DLA-RS520 (or closeout RS500) is by FAR the best image you can get. I got my RS500 new for less than $5000 from an authorized JVC dealer. The RS500/520 has such bang for the buck performance that most here would stop coming here on the forum to argue about the state of things because they found the image and experience of owning it is simply that good. If I were smart, I'd be doing the same thing and checking in every six months or so to see when JVC offers a native 4K model with similar performance (maybe a little more light and contrast) for under $10000. CEDIA 2019?

Last edited by Seegs108; 06-28-2017 at 09:06 AM.
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post #16945 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Which DLP are you getting today?
an old stock surprise, something i've wanted to do for a while. i'll show you later tonight.


http://www.trustedreviews.com/benq-x12000-review

Review Price: £8,159.00

wow is that expensive!

no HDR support? what good is the P3 support? No FI for those that like it.

To be clear, since the projector can handle only SDR video inputs, the DCI-P3 colour effect is created by the projector; it isn't native playback of DCI-P3 from any of your sources – even Ultra HD Blu-ray drives.

First, black level performance isn’t that great. Yes, it’s good at reproducing details in dark areas, but the overall tone of those areas is rather grey and ‘milky’ – more so than on some of BenQ’s far cheaper Full HD projectors. There are no options available in the projector’s controls that solve this issue, making the lack of any adjustable dynamic contrast/iris controls feel puzzling. I can only assume that BenQ couldn’t get them to work properly with some aspect of the X12000’s light engine.


Another big issue with the X12000 is the rainbow effect. This single-chip DLP issue sees stripes of pure red, green and blue flitting over stand-out bright parts of the picture, especially if you move your eyes around the image. Even though I don’t consider myself particularly susceptible to seeing rainbowing, I found it a fairly routine distraction on the X12000. Especially since the striping appears even over bright scenes, rather than being limited to bright elements of otherwise dark scenes, as is usually the case.



The X12000 also struggles a little with motion. There’s enough judder with 24p sources to cause camera pans to look quite distracting and low on detail, especially in the context of the 4K glories so evident with relatively static footage.

this is not the UHD DLP I was looking for..

Maybe next year
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post #16946 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it's not false in any regard that they have P3 support and motorized lens shift for only $2,000.
It is false because even $3500 Epson pjs are more blurry and have more optical artifacts than the $2000 UHD60. So if you are willing to accept similar blurriness then you can add a lower quality lens with lens shift for that price. Otherwise you have to make some sacrifices to hit that price point, and IMO poor resolution on a 4k projector is the wrong sacrifice to make as it would render the 4k DMD pointless. Hence minimal lens shift.

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I love DLP and now own 5 DLP's (another DLP arriving today) but this is still a pile of excuses at $5,000 no matter how it's spun...

hopefully they get out of beta mode in year + and offer a full feature set for UHD HDR.
Sequential color is not going to magically get brighter in the next year. Manufacturers are not going to make people buy two 310w lamps and have 50db fans just to attain adequate brightness with p3.

The solution as repeatedly stated both by myself and dlp manufacturers is laser/LED light source, such as the BenQ X12000 w/ P3 gamut already offers. Has nothing to do with "beta" and more the brightness limitations of lamp and color wheels. Laser overcormes with higher brightness, LED by inherently having higher native gamut and ditching the color wheel.

Last edited by Ruined; 06-28-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
an old stock surprise, something i've wanted to do for a while. i'll show you later tonight.


http://www.trustedreviews.com/benq-x12000-review

Review Price: £8,159.00

wow is that expensive!

no HDR support? what good is the P3 support? No FI for those that like it.

To be clear, since the projector can handle only SDR video inputs, the DCI-P3 colour effect is created by the projector; it isn't native playback of DCI-P3 from any of your sources – even Ultra HD Blu-ray drives.

First, black level performance isn’t that great. Yes, it’s good at reproducing details in dark areas, but the overall tone of those areas is rather grey and ‘milky’ – more so than on some of BenQ’s far cheaper Full HD projectors. There are no options available in the projector’s controls that solve this issue, making the lack of any adjustable dynamic contrast/iris controls feel puzzling. I can only assume that BenQ couldn’t get them to work properly with some aspect of the X12000’s light engine.


Another big issue with the X12000 is the rainbow effect. This single-chip DLP issue sees stripes of pure red, green and blue flitting over stand-out bright parts of the picture, especially if you move your eyes around the image. Even though I don’t consider myself particularly susceptible to seeing rainbowing, I found it a fairly routine distraction on the X12000. Especially since the striping appears even over bright scenes, rather than being limited to bright elements of otherwise dark scenes, as is usually the case.



The X12000 also struggles a little with motion. There’s enough judder with 24p sources to cause camera pans to look quite distracting and low on detail, especially in the context of the 4K glories so evident with relatively static footage.

this is not the UHD DLP I was looking for..

Maybe next year
Seems to be the worst XPR unit out there currently.
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post #16948 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 09:10 AM
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Both w11000/x12000 are first gen design, so not as good as the 2nd gen xpr pjs launching this summer/fall.
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post #16949 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I do like the UHD65, but I want to keep things in perspective here. In the sub $3000 market it's a great choice at the moment. But it's feature-set and raw performance compared to the units we discuss in this subforum is not favorable. The JVCs and Sony 4K models that MSRP for under $10000 have about twice the lumen output which is sorely needed for HDR. They also still support 3D. Contrast is insanely better on these projectors, both have fully motorized lenses with lens memory, the JVC offers two 18 Gbps ports and P3 color gamut support. There's just a lot weighing against DLP at the moment. The HK2288 will be interesting because it will have more brightness and possibly more contrast performance, but I just can't see it being enough of an improvement to actually give the JVC and Sony projectors a run for their money in overall picture performance. I love DLP (I have 2 DLP units here at the moment) but the performance gap has widened so far over the last 3-5 years it's becoming, in my opinion, next to impossible for DLP to make a comeback in this price market. DLP I think is doomed to be an entry-level performance option for the remainder of it's lifetime. The ultra-high end DLP market seems to be dead with only a handful of people buying commercial grade units simply because there's nothing LCD-based bright enough for their massive screens and for everyone else in the $20000+ market they seem to be buying either the 5000ES from Sony or RS4500 from JVC.



For $5000, the JVC DLA-RS520 (or closeout RS500) is by FAR the best image you can get. I got my RS500 new for less than $5000 from an authorized JVC dealer. The RS500/520 has such bang for the buck performance that most here would stop coming here on the forum to argue about the state of things because they found the image and experience of owning it is simply that good. If I were smart, I'd be doing the same thing and checking in every six months or so to see when JVC offers a native 4K model with similar performance (maybe a little more light and contrast) for under $10000. CEDIA 2019?
But, this is why a $2k-$3k 4k dlp is so attractive right now, as we wait for 4k to mature...
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post #16950 of 18249 Old 06-28-2017, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

The solution as repeatedly stated both by myself and dlp manufacturers is laser/LED light source, such as the BenQ X12000 w/ P3 gamut already offers. Has nothing to do with "beta" and more the brightness limitations of lamp and color wheels. Laser overcormes with higher brightness, LED by inherently having higher native gamut and ditching the color wheel.
how is a $10,000 projector with P3 gamut but no HDR support not a beta product?

that review was terrible, they better make some serious changes for the follow up model.

get that RBE in check, fix the milky contrast, add FI for starters at that high price point.
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