Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 589 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17641 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Like I said, I'm not making any judgements on your projector, but Seegs wasn't crazy, I do see non-uniformity in that picture.
Excuse me, I did not mean to bother you.
Watch this conversation, Seegs talks about the good uniformity of your RS500 and for whatever reason (shooting angle, screen ...) does not look like it.
LCD/LCoS gray uniformity
Seegs in this same conversation states this:
(...)It's not common to other projector manufacturer's expensive units. For instance the Epson LS10000 I demo'ed looked excellent and showed none of these issues.

This is why using photographs is sometimes misleading.
What really matters is what you actually see.

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post #17642 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Where can one pre-order the limited edition with the hand? That looks super awesome!
Amazon has a pre-order below. There is a rumor of only 6000 being released in the US and will be numbered with a JC signature so I ordered 2...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0744872GF/

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Termin...lu-ray/183926/
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post #17643 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
Thanks for the advice.

I already have the Oppo 203 which has the 4K anamorphic stretch which has proved indispensable for the Sony 1000es.
I also have a HD Fury which I use for the 1000es to bypass the encryption.

Will tie up the Oppo 203 with the Rs600 just to see what results I get.
I have UltraHD discs of Sicario, Passengers and the original Ghostbusters which all look splendid on the 1000es in terms of resolution.

Very curious to see the effects of WCG with the Rs600.
Also need to determine if I have the bt2020 profile pre-loaded already onto the machine(which is the 2016 model)......otherwise will have to download from the JVC website.

So far with the Rs600, just been enjoying the show with rec709 BluRay content.
Absolutely amazing all round picture quality.
Blown away
With the 203 and the RS600 the JVC will default to Gamma D for HDR content. Even with the best case settings it's still a mile away from the custom curves you may have been reading about. You can install one of the universal curves that Manni01 and LovingDVD created, they are good baselines to at least get an idea of how it would look. you would have to switch to the custom curve once the movie starts since the JVC is aggressive with wanting to default to Gamma D.

The ultimate 'set it and and forget it' solution will be adding the HDFury Linker (http://www.hdfury.com/product/linker...600mhz-scaler/). It has a specific feature that the Integral doesn't that will allow the DI to work in HDR and also keep your custom curve as default when playing back UHD HDR content.

There's a number of movies that look remarkable in WCG, the RS600 has full P3 support once the filter is engaged. Lucy, Fifth Element, Leon and Dawn of the Apes are some recent viewings where the WCG really stands out.
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post #17644 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
But the point I am trying to make, people in the JVC threads scrutinized the JVC's much harder than owners in the Sony or Epson threads.
I can't agree with that I'm afraid - just because you own a JVC does not magically make you scrutenise an image more or a suddenly become a video guru. I could possibly say that I put the JVCs under more scruteny because I actually decided not to buy one based on the image they produced. You can't get much more critical than that. I could go further and say that the JVC owners complain more because there is more wrong with them. Most people buy them for the contrast it would seem.

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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
JVC owners do not have a problem talking about the issues that they see/find on their projectors. The JVC thread is littered with comments about the issues.
I don't either if they are genuine. Having checking out my uniformity today after watching a movie, I can confirm mine doesn't have an issue either, just as I said many times perviously. Maybe owners with the issue are using too much of the convergence control.

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post #17645 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The bottom right of the 10 IRE image definitely has a magenta cast in on the right side. With Gimp's color picker I get RGB 140/134/148 vs 142/142/142 in the center. Top left side seems to tend toward blue a bit, 150/151/155 and the bottom left slightly green 149/151/150.

I have no idea if it's just the camera, or how bad it would look in person, but Seegs isn't just seeing things.
Honestly the left side looks fine to me, and I don't see the green at all, but I do definitely see the magenta on the right side
Thanks for doing the same as me. I don't see it in real terms either (on either side of the 40IRE image) and my colour picker shows up similar small differecnes to yours, but they are not in large areas or big enough to make as visible a difference as is being suggested IMHO. I mean, 149/151/150 out of a range 16 to 234 is unlikely to be that visible is it. When calibrating to D65, the RGBs are usually shown as 100% and the differences can be 1 or 2% but that doesn't usually equate to a dE greater than 3 which is where the differences start to become visible to the human eye. If it's not visible on the screen it's also possible the camera has made some errors, but looking at the images on two different monitors shows it to be fine to me.

I wonder how JVCs and Sony's would look when using a colour picker in the same way after being photographed - I bet they have differences greater than one or two and would not be say 150/150/150 across the entire screen.

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post #17646 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
Maybe owners with the issue are using too much of the convergence control.
I'm thinking maybe zoom or lens shift, but probably just luck of the draw.

--Darin
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post #17647 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
Not until I know why seegs can see the colour shift in the images from this post thank you very much:

Projector Mini-Shootout Thread

I can't see the green and red that he mentions, and neither can my paint program, so I'd like to know why.

Can anybody else? Did anyone else check it in their paint program to confirm it? The RGB values are all pretty close, and those that aren't don't confirm the green to red imbalance he sees, so I'd like to know why. If it was my eyes or monitor, the paint program would show that.
Yes. Have you got photoshop?

Left side is fine to me, close enough, right side would be dE over 3 sorry to say, thats visible to the human eye and thus probably approaching dE 4 or 5.

For the 10IRE Shot...

Right side of screen:



Top Left,



Bottom Left:



40IRE actually looks about the same to my colour picker.

If you measured 150/150/150 for eg as Gary says, that would be a dE of 0.0 which is almost impossible. I mean, seriously, pretty much no projector would have that level of uniformity IMO. Expect a spread of 3-5 for a fully calibrated projector.

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Shootout - JVC RS500 & Sony 320ES | My MadVR Settings

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post #17648 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
With the 203 and the RS600 the JVC will default to Gamma D for HDR content. Even with the best case settings it's still a mile away from the custom curves you may have been reading about. You can install one of the universal curves that Manni01 and LovingDVD created, they are good baselines to at least get an idea of how it would look. you would have to switch to the custom curve once the movie starts since the JVC is aggressive with wanting to default to Gamma D.

The ultimate 'set it and and forget it' solution will be adding the HDFury Linker (http://www.hdfury.com/product/linker...600mhz-scaler/). It has a specific feature that the Integral doesn't that will allow the DI to work in HDR and also keep your custom curve as default when playing back UHD HDR content.

There's a number of movies that look remarkable in WCG, the RS600 has full P3 support once the filter is engaged. Lucy, Fifth Element, Leon and Dawn of the Apes are some recent viewings where the WCG really stands out.
Was playing around with a UHD Remux last night, I noticed through MadVR, not only does the HDR passthrough as expected and play perfectly, but you can also turn off send HDR metadata right there in the MadVR settings, this stops the JVC Autoswitching, and of course, retains the DI without the need for the linker at all. That option has actually been there longer than the Linker has been able to do it. Which is good, because my linker is between my Panny and the AVR, not between my HTPC and the AVR

Cant wait until I can back up all my discs this way.
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post #17649 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Yes. Have you got photoshop?
I used Paint Shop Pro which was to hand, and I think I mentioned the blue on the r/h side from that. Couldn't see the green to red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Left side is fine to me, close enough, right side would be dE over 3 sorry to say, thats visible to the human eye and thus probably approaching dE 4 or 5.

For the 10IRE Shot...

Right side of screen:



Top Left,



Bottom Left:



40IRE actually looks about the same to my colour picker.
Thanks for doing that which was pretty much what i found I think - no real green to red uniformity problem. Having said that, with the images you have posted I can now see the blue tint on the right hand side a little more, which is strange - I did measure that but it wasn't as visible. Has photoshop enhanced the images at all in any way? Seems more visible in the 'preview post' than it was earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
If you measured 150/1501/50 for eg as Gary says, that would be a dE of 0.0 which is almost impossible. I mean, seriously, pretty much no projector would have that level of uniformity IMO. Expect a spread of 3-5 for a fully calibrated projector.
That was my point about the actual measured differences, which are pretty small and inconsequential in the most part. I would think a camera would change those measurements to a degree as well, especially a phone camera. Even if you had 150RGB across the screen, it probably wouldn't end up like that after being photographed, and with low IRE images the accuracy and noise of the phone could come into play, just like with some calibration probes.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #17650 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
I used Paint Shop Pro which was to hand, and I think I mentioned the blue on the r/h side from that. Couldn't see the green to red.

Thanks for doing that which was pretty much what i found I think - no real green to red uniformity problem. Having said that, with the images you have posted I can now see the blue tint on the right hand side a little more, which is strange - I did measure that but it wasn't as visible. Has photoshop enhanced the images at all in any way? Seems more visible in the 'preview post' than it was earlier.
Photoshop doesn't do anything unless you tell it to. The images are the same as what's earlier in this thread.

Thanks for doing that which was pretty much what i found I think - no real green to red uniformity problem.

There is a problem, like I said, that would be greater than a dE of 3 on the right hand side, since its fully visible to the human eye. The left side of the screen though is fine.

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post #17651 of 18239 Old 07-26-2017, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Was playing around with a UHD Remux last night, I noticed through MadVR, not only does the HDR passthrough as expected and play perfectly, but you can also turn off send HDR metadata right there in the MadVR settings, this stops the JVC Autoswitching, and of course, retains the DI without the need for the linker at all. That option has actually been there longer than the Linker has been able to do it. Which is good, because my linker is between my Panny and the AVR, not between my HTPC and the AVR

Cant wait until I can back up all my discs this way.
I recall the discussion on that setting in MadVR good to hear it works. It's hard to say when backups will be possible. it could be months or years depending on who's putting the effort into it.

We saw a late showing of Valarian in 3D tonight.. wow but not in a good way. the key element of a good movie is having main actors that can act.. Fifth Element/Leon/Lucy all had that in common.

The 3D presentation was pretty bad. a space movie with many low APL scenes on a cinema DLP projector with maybe 1500:1 being generous. nice muddy looking star fields and x-talk from the circular polarized glasses.
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post #17652 of 18239 Old 07-27-2017, 04:33 AM
 
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I recall the discussion on that setting in MadVR good to hear it works. It's hard to say when backups will be possible. it could be months or years depending on who's putting the effort into it.

We saw a late showing of Valarian in 3D tonight.. wow but not in a good way. the key element of a good movie is having main actors that can act.. Fifth Element/Leon/Lucy all had that in common.

The 3D presentation was pretty bad. a space movie with many low APL scenes on a cinema DLP projector with maybe 1500:1 being generous. nice muddy looking star fields and x-talk from the circular polarized glasses.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

I haven't seen it but the casting of the leads is insane. Who thought that was a good idea? I hate the male lead and I've never really liked the female lead either (Far be it from me as a Red blooded American male to complain but that's what passes as a super model nowadays? Give me Kathy Ireland). Birth.Movies.Death put it best: Both of them give you two hours of 'resting b!tch face'.

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Ah, my eyes...why did you guys make me Google Valerian?
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post #17654 of 18239 Old 07-27-2017, 10:56 AM
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I haven't seen it but the casting of the leads is insane. Who thought that was a good idea? I hate the male lead and I've never really liked the female lead either (Far be it from me as a Red blooded American male to complain but that's what passes as a super model nowadays? Give me Kathy Ireland). Birth.Movies.Death put it best: Both of them give you two hours of 'resting b!tch face'.
Have you seen Baby Driver? Seems like much different casting choices for the lead couple.

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Amazon has a pre-order below. There is a rumor of only 6000 being released in the US and will be numbered with a JC signature so I ordered 2...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0744872GF/

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Termin...lu-ray/183926/
Woo! got mine ordered too A little steep for a movie but I just had to have that prop! Awesome stuff.

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post #17657 of 18239 Old 07-27-2017, 01:38 PM
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Woo! got mine ordered too A little steep for a movie but I just had to have that prop! Awesome stuff.
Great movie and the ultimate back scratcher !
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Had some fun today :




I've seen that combo somewhere before...


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post #17659 of 18239 Old 07-27-2017, 05:37 PM
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post #17660 of 18239 Old 07-28-2017, 02:14 AM
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We saw a late showing of Valarian in 3D tonight.. wow but not in a good way. the key element of a good movie is having main actors that can act.. Fifth Element/Leon/Lucy all had that in common.

The 3D presentation was pretty bad. a space movie with many low APL scenes on a cinema DLP projector with maybe 1500:1 being generous. nice muddy looking star fields and x-talk from the circular polarized glasses.
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I haven't seen it but the casting of the leads is insane. Who thought that was a good idea?
Interesting you say that about Valerian. I made sure to see it in theater as I fear 3D won't make it to Blu-ray. My theater was bright enough (surprisingly) but the crosstalk was horrible! Any high contrast shot was horrendous and gave me headaches.

Someone asked for my thoughts on Valerian and I said: "Take Fifth Element, 10x the weird factor, remove the story and character chemistry and you have Valerian." Honestly, the leads looked more like siblings than a couple and compared to Clive Owen they also looked like children.

I'll still buy it on Blu-ray though.
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Interesting you say that about Valerian. I made sure to see it in theater as I fear 3D won't make it to Blu-ray. My theater was bright enough (surprisingly) but the crosstalk was horrible! Any high contrast shot was horrendous and gave me headaches.

Someone asked for my thoughts on Valerian and I said: "Take Fifth Element, 10x the weird factor, remove the story and character chemistry and you have Valerian." Honestly, the leads looked more like siblings than a couple and compared to Clive Owen they also looked like children.

I'll still buy it on Blu-ray though.
Oh I'll own it eventually LOL. I mean hell I own Jupiter Ascending on Blu-ray (but not 4k!). But at home I can ignore the plot, play with my phone, and admire the picture quality while watching.
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Oh I'll own it eventually LOL. I mean hell I own Jupiter Ascending on Blu-ray (but not 4k!). But at home I can ignore the plot, play with my phone, and admire the picture quality while watching.
I enjoy Jupiter Ascending probably more than I should. There are definitely similarities to Valerian. I think both movies benefit from a re-watch with adjusted expectations.
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I enjoy Jupiter Ascending probably more than I should. There are definitely similarities to Valerian. I think both movies benefit from a re-watch with adjusted expectations.
The fight scene over Chicago is a lot of fun on a high contrast display.
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post #17664 of 18239 Old 07-28-2017, 05:17 AM
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The fight scene over Chicago is a lot of fun on a high contrast display.
3D is the bee's knees on my 136" 2.35:1 screen. Give me something bright, colorful and loud and I'm a happy camper. Jupiter Ascending fits the bill nicely. Pew Pew Pew!
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post #17665 of 18239 Old 07-28-2017, 05:18 AM
 
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I enjoy Jupiter Ascending probably more than I should. There are definitely similarities to Valerian. I think both movies benefit from a re-watch with adjusted expectations.
And I have a ton of bad movies that get regular viewing due to good picture quality: Ender's Game, Oblivion, Transformers 4. Although the last one is probably because I got to visit the barn interior set and those are two pinball machines you occasionally see in the background are mine.
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And I have a ton of bad movies that get regular viewing due to good picture quality: Ender's Game, Oblivion, Transformers 4. Although the last one is probably because I got to visit the barn interior set and those are two pinball machines you occasionally see in the background are mine.
Oblivion is a good movie. A very good movie. You wanna fight buster?


Wait...hold up. You sourced props to a movie? That is awesome!
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post #17667 of 18239 Old 07-28-2017, 05:32 AM
 
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Oblivion is a good movie. A very good movie. You wanna fight buster?


Wait...hold up. You sourced props to a movie? That is awesome!
A friend of a friend does set design in the area. Those are my pinball machines to the right of the picture. The rental fee was pretty decent. I wasn't there when anyone famous was. This is a shot from the Blu-ray extras. It's a Firepower and Laser Cue. You can barely see them in the actual film. Best moment is around when the 'beer bot' malfunctions.

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post #17668 of 18239 Old 07-28-2017, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
A friend of a friend does set design in the area. Those are my pinball machines to the right of the picture. The rental fee was pretty decent. I wasn't there when anyone famous was. This is a shot from the Blu-ray extras. It's a Firepower and Laser Cue. You can barely see them in the actual film. Best moment is around when the 'beer bot' malfunctions.
That is really awesome! I'll have to keep my eye out for it next time I watch it.
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post #17669 of 18239 Old 07-28-2017, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
A friend of a friend does set design in the area. Those are my pinball machines to the right of the picture. The rental fee was pretty decent. I wasn't there when anyone famous was. This is a shot from the Blu-ray extras. It's a Firepower and Laser Cue. You can barely see them in the actual film. Best moment is around when the 'beer bot' malfunctions.

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That is pretty cool.

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post #17670 of 18239 Old 07-28-2017, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Oblivion is a good movie. A very good movie. You wanna fight buster?
I spent about 2 years looking at Oblivion scenes before I watched the entire movie... It's a great example of how good BD could look, such a sin they massacred the UHD. It's possibly the worst one I've seen, this really deserves a proper re-release.

for repeated viewings Oblivion -> Valerian for certain. If they release it in 3D BD I'll pick it up for demo scenes since there was some good 3D but the story and characters were painful.

A good summary of what went wrong with this movie:

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