Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 598 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17911 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
That's EXACTLY what I will be doing. You read my mind.
At the end of the day, it's all about watching movies with your friends !
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post #17912 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Friendly Fire View Post
Craig,
that is a nice way to look at it. Thanks.
Much as I like people upgrading projectors every year or two ( since I make a living selling projectors ), there are plenty of folks calling lately just getting around to upgrading their RS1's ! They are doing it right. When you need a new projector, buy the best one you can comfortably afford, and go watch it. That's what I do with vehicles - I'm still driving a 2001 Toyota Tacoma !
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post #17913 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
leave this forum, and go watch movies for 4 or 5 years.
good luck with that, the A in the forum title stands for addiction...

countless folks will be back to watch all the shoot-outs and comparisons just like they do every year. It's just getting started
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post #17914 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Much as I like people upgrading projectors every year or two ( since I make a living selling projectors ), there are plenty of folks calling lately just getting around to upgrading their RS1's ! They are doing it right. When you need a new projector, buy the best one you can comfortably afford, and go watch it. That's what I do with vehicles - I'm still driving a 2001 Toyota Tacoma !
Nothing better in life than a fine thing worn out !!
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post #17915 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Ya I build myself the best PC I can every 4-5 years as well. That is what gets me thinking, I got myself a JVCX500 when they came out and it is still fantastic. But had I grabbed the X900 with the better contrast and lens I might not feel any need to upgrade for a long time. As it is now the brightness or lack off it is my complaint with the X500.
No perfect solution and with technology everything is a moving target. Delaying the need to upgrade is a fine justification for buying bigger and better tech. At least that is what I tell myself. Why should we force ourselves to use gear that is not satisfying? I can't think of a good reason. That said my wife has no trouble offering reasons when it comes to me spending money. Oh well.

Sounds like to you need to move past that X500.
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post #17916 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
good luck with that, the A in the forum title stands for addiction...

countless folks will be back to watch all the shoot-outs and comparisons just like they do every year. It's just getting started
Well, there is that ! i was talking about " normal people " - not you or me.
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post #17917 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Well, there is that ! i was talking about " normal people " - not you or me.
Now if only we had PJ shootouts in English,I'd watch that over and over.

It's always in the last place you look.
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post #17918 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Samsung 8500 / Panasonic UB900 / Roku Ultra for Netflix HDR

I had a chance this weekend to spend a few hours comparing Netflix HDR between the Samsung 8500, Panasonic UB900 and Roku Ultra.



The Samsung 8500 was the only device capable of playing Netflix in 24p. UB900 and Roku both convert it to 60p. I used a number of the Marvel series to review each device with a focus on the higher paced action scenes to compare 24p vs. 60p.

I was expecting to see a noticeable difference but all 3 devices looks more similar than not. The 60p conversion on the UB900 and Roku do not look anything like FI on either the JVC or Sony projectors I've had here. It could have passed for native 60p content imo and didn't see any obvious artifacts.

Using the 8500 again was a painful reminder of how awkward this player is. From the miniature remote control, slow interface, even fast-forwarding through the Netflix content was a pain. UB900 and Roku Ultra felt much quicker in navigation and overall seat of the pants experience.

I decided to try some of the 4K HDR demos from Youtube, the Peru demo in particular which is remarkable to see in HDR/WCG. It was interesting to learn that only the Roku Ultra supports Youtube with HDR/WCG and did an excellent job playing it back. I bought the Roku 1 year ago when it was released and it was buggy so it ended up in a TV room for 1080P duties. This was the first re-visit since that time in my HT and pleasantly surprised to see they have updated the firmware where it's more stable and has a stand-out feature like the YT HDR/WCG support.

Apples doe not support VP9 which means no YT HDR/WCG in their new $180 player.

in conclusion, I'll likely use the UB900 for all UHD playback and Netflix HDR as well and turn to the Roku on occasion to see an HDR/WCG demo or 2 on YT.
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post #17919 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Friendly Fire View Post
I am wrestling with whether to buy the Sony VW385 for $8K or wait a couple of years for the same machine performance at a lower price. I really want 4K, and I'd like to install a Cinemascope format screen. The 385 will let me do both now.

Straying into the above $20K realm is daunting. Some great features but at a punishing price. If the $20K machine meets a need you just have to have and can't get in a cheaper machine, go for it. If it is just a more expensive version of a mundane machine, skip it.

Early adopters pay dearly. Whether it is worth it is a personal choice.
For a "get you by for now" projector I wouldn't discount the 285 even for a scope screen. I've found that if you dial in the focus for your 2.35 zoom, then it winds up very close to correct on 16:9 as well(where it's smaller and not as critical). Even better if you configure 16:9 material closer to say 1.9:1 and then blank the top and bottom a little. Then just make sure the projector is perfectly centered horizontally and all you have to change is zoom and vertical lens shift.

Also keep in mind that lens memory is nice but far from perfect. Lens shift needs touching up often and focus can drift at times.

I'd be willing to spend in the $15k range for a projector I was excited about. But I think it would need to have a better lens than anything in that range so far. In the meantime I'm thinking of adding a 285 to my RS620 for a dual projector setup with different strengths. Even though I have a scope screen it doesn't bother me that the 285 doesn't have lens memory. Partly because it's a second projector, and also the reasons mentioned above.
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post #17920 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Now if only we had PJ shootouts in English,I'd watch that over and over.
Amen. I guess the US magazines / websites are too tied to advertisers to want to produce such a shootout. But it seems there are Youtube channels / websites that review digital camera's in a detailed manner. So what the heck? Let's not let the Germans dominate the amazing, technically objective projector review space.
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post #17921 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I had a chance this weekend to spend a few hours comparing Netflix HDR between the Samsung 8500, Panasonic UB900 and Roku Ultra.



The Samsung 8500 was the only device capable of playing Netflix in 24p. UB900 and Roku both convert it to 60p. I used a number of the Marvel series to review each device with a focus on the higher paced action scenes to compare 24p vs. 60p.

I was expecting to see a noticeable difference but all 3 devices looks more similar than not. The 60p conversion on the UB900 and Roku do not look anything like FI on either the JVC or Sony projectors I've had here. It could have passed for native 60p content imo and didn't see any obvious artifacts.

Using the 8500 again was a painful reminder of how awkward this player is. From the miniature remote control, slow interface, even fast-forwarding through the Netflix content was a pain. UB900 and Roku Ultra felt much quicker in navigation and overall seat of the pants experience.

I decided to try some of the 4K HDR demos from Youtube, the Peru demo in particular which is remarkable to see in HDR/WCG. It was interesting to learn that only the Roku Ultra supports Youtube with HDR/WCG and did an excellent job playing it back. I bought the Roku 1 year ago when it was released and it was buggy so it ended up in a TV room for 1080P duties. This was the first re-visit since that time in my HT and pleasantly surprised to see they have updated the firmware where it's more stable and has a stand-out feature like the YT HDR/WCG support.

Apples doe not support VP9 which means no YT HDR/WCG in their new $180 player.

in conclusion, I'll likely use the UB900 for all UHD playback and Netflix HDR as well and turn to the Roku on occasion to see an HDR/WCG demo or 2 on YT.
Great info. I have the UB900 and have the Oppo 203 on order with plans to buy the Sony UBP-X1000ES to test similar things. Too bad the Oppo does not have apps on this years models.

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post #17922 of 18254 Old 09-25-2017, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I had a chance this weekend to spend a few hours comparing Netflix HDR between the Samsung 8500, Panasonic UB900 and Roku Ultra.



The Samsung 8500 was the only device capable of playing Netflix in 24p. UB900 and Roku both convert it to 60p. I used a number of the Marvel series to review each device with a focus on the higher paced action scenes to compare 24p vs. 60p.

I was expecting to see a noticeable difference but all 3 devices looks more similar than not. The 60p conversion on the UB900 and Roku do not look anything like FI on either the JVC or Sony projectors I've had here. It could have passed for native 60p content imo and didn't see any obvious artifacts.

Using the 8500 again was a painful reminder of how awkward this player is. From the miniature remote control, slow interface, even fast-forwarding through the Netflix content was a pain. UB900 and Roku Ultra felt much quicker in navigation and overall seat of the pants experience.

I decided to try some of the 4K HDR demos from Youtube, the Peru demo in particular which is remarkable to see in HDR/WCG. It was interesting to learn that only the Roku Ultra supports Youtube with HDR/WCG and did an excellent job playing it back. I bought the Roku 1 year ago when it was released and it was buggy so it ended up in a TV room for 1080P duties. This was the first re-visit since that time in my HT and pleasantly surprised to see they have updated the firmware where it's more stable and has a stand-out feature like the YT HDR/WCG support.

Apples doe not support VP9 which means no YT HDR/WCG in their new $180 player.

in conclusion, I'll likely use the UB900 for all UHD playback and Netflix HDR as well and turn to the Roku on occasion to see an HDR/WCG demo or 2 on YT.

Thanks. Been waiting to read your findings.
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post #17923 of 18254 Old 09-26-2017, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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get ready for some Bayhem...

these movies are terrible but can't resist for some reason. I'm here for the crazy 3D CGI and LFE..



one of the few new 3D BD's with ATMOS no remuxing needed on this one
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post #17924 of 18254 Old 09-26-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
get ready for some Bayhem...

these movies are terrible but can't resist for some reason. I'm here for the crazy 3D CGI and LFE..



one of the few new 3D BD's with ATMOS no remuxing needed on this one
The 2nd half of that film is out of control ridiculous.

I haven't seen the 3d, only 2d SDR, will probably give it a go soon, then never watch the film ever again.

I did remember thinking the video quality was exceptionally sharp though, it was shot on the Alexa 65 IMAX variant. And I remember thinking HDR would look excellent on it too.

But that 2nd half, he really wanted to go out with a bang it seems. haha
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post #17925 of 18254 Old 09-26-2017, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
get ready for some Bayhem...

these movies are terrible but can't resist for some reason. I'm here for the crazy 3D CGI and LFE..



one of the few new 3D BD's with ATMOS no remuxing needed on this one
I'll be grabbing this as well. LFE looks excellent/best of series from the graphs posted in the bass thread. Hate variable aspect, but hoping it frames ok to a constant scope ratio on my 2.35 screen. These are FUN HT movies cranked up to reference with the 3d cooking!
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post #17926 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 07:39 AM
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Just picked up a Runco D-73D projector setup for a decent price. Basically it's two Runco Q750i LED projectors stacked with the ability to have the two images perfectly aligned and then polarized filters can be used for a passive 3D experience. It's similar to commercial theater 3D, but unlike the commercial theater, supposedly you can still get 1080p resolution to each eye despite it not being active 3D. Should be fun to play around with!

Spoiler!
How did this turn out for you?
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post #17927 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 5mark View Post
For a "get you by for now" projector I wouldn't discount the 285 even for a scope screen. I've found that if you dial in the focus for your 2.35 zoom, then it winds up very close to correct on 16:9 as well(where it's smaller and not as critical). Even better if you configure 16:9 material closer to say 1.9:1 and then blank the top and bottom a little. Then just make sure the projector is perfectly centered horizontally and all you have to change is zoom and vertical lens shift.

Also keep in mind that lens memory is nice but far from perfect. Lens shift needs touching up often and focus can drift at times.

I'd be willing to spend in the $15k range for a projector I was excited about. But I think it would need to have a better lens than anything in that range so far. In the meantime I'm thinking of adding a 285 to my RS620 for a dual projector setup with different strengths. Even though I have a scope screen it doesn't bother me that the 285 doesn't have lens memory. Partly because it's a second projector, and also the reasons mentioned above.
You can always pair a 285 with an Oppo and use the Oppo to do the aspect ratio change from 2.35 to 16:9. Will be quick and accurate every time.
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post #17928 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
get ready for some Bayhem...

these movies are terrible but can't resist for some reason. I'm here for the crazy 3D CGI and LFE..

Spoiler!


one of the few new 3D BD's with ATMOS no remuxing needed on this one
The first half is a mess because there are too many story-lines going on. Once Bay locks in the third act it gets better. I thought it was much too similar to Dark of the Moon, my personal favorite of the series.

This movie has probably 5 different aspect ratios which is absolute turmoil for my CIH screen. I put it in 2.40:1 mode, masked out the rest and basked in the glory.

For the last week I pulled my chair forward and had been sitting 8 feet away from my 136" CIH screen and it has been spectacular. This Transformers movie though, I just about had a seizure 20 minutes in and had to move further away.
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post #17929 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5mark View Post
For a "get you by for now" projector I wouldn't discount the 285 even for a scope screen. I've found that if you dial in the focus for your 2.35 zoom, then it winds up very close to correct on 16:9 as well(where it's smaller and not as critical). Even better if you configure 16:9 material closer to say 1.9:1 and then blank the top and bottom a little. Then just make sure the projector is perfectly centered horizontally and all you have to change is zoom and vertical lens shift.

Also keep in mind that lens memory is nice but far from perfect. Lens shift needs touching up often and focus can drift at times.

I'd be willing to spend in the $15k range for a projector I was excited about. But I think it would need to have a better lens than anything in that range so far. In the meantime I'm thinking of adding a 285 to my RS620 for a dual projector setup with different strengths. Even though I have a scope screen it doesn't bother me that the 285 doesn't have lens memory. Partly because it's a second projector, and also the reasons mentioned above.
You can always pair a 285 with an Oppo and use the Oppo to do the aspect ratio change from 2.35 to 16:9. Will be quick and accurate every time.
Mike, you talking about the stretch mode? I use it on my Oppo 203 and found some BD's won't allow it. Must be something to do with the way they were encoded. Can't remember if I had this issue on my 103. And haven't tried it on any UHD discs yet.
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post #17930 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Mike, you talking about the stretch mode? I use it on my Oppo 203 and found some BD's won't allow it. Must be something to do with the way they were encoded. Can't remember if I had this issue on my 103. And haven't tried it on any UHD discs yet.
Stretch mode is for an A-lens. The Oppo will do aspect ratio change like the Lumagen can do, without an A-lens. This is a relatively new feature for Oppo.

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post #17931 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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The first half is a mess because there are too many story-lines going on. Once Bay locks in the third act it gets better. I thought it was much too similar to Dark of the Moon, my personal favorite of the series.

This movie has probably 5 different aspect ratios which is absolute turmoil for my CIH screen. I put it in 2.40:1 mode, masked out the rest and basked in the glory.

For the last week I pulled my chair forward and had been sitting 8 feet away from my 136" CIH screen and it has been spectacular. This Transformers movie though, I just about had a seizure 20 minutes in and had to move further away.
Seegs ended up selling the Runco 3D stack, the alignment was very difficult.

Thanks for heads up on aspect change, I'll leave my masks off for this one and go full mini-imax. I actually enjoy this - the whole ghostbusters crossing into the scope bars was pretty cool. (waiting for toe's head to explode on this comment.. )

Apollo 13 is due out in October and is a 4K scan from the original 35mm film, looking forward to re-visiting that movie.
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post #17932 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Stretch mode is for an A-lens. The Oppo will do aspect ratio change like the Lumagen can do, without an A-lens. This is a relatively new feature for Oppo.
Interesting... is that also using the zoom button? Or is it in the menus somewhere? Because I see many different options of zooming when I press the icon on the remote.

On a side note, I see they finally added HDR10 support for the HDMI input. Thanks god! It was a pain trying to skim all the different threads of streaming, media players, game consoles, player, etc. to find out what supports what.

I've mentioned this before somewhere,but that should be an article AVS should do. Give a master list of X device having Y apps and supports Z formats and playback speeds.
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post #17933 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 10:03 AM
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Apollo 13 should look great, but I believe I will blind-buy (again!!!) to hear the soundtrack in Dolby Atmos...(hopefully it will have ATMOS!!!)
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post #17934 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 10:06 AM
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oh, and on another note, I am on the fence concerning the recent purchase of a SPYDER 5 to calibrate my new JVC X570R. It looks fairly involved, and my 'tweaking days' are not as tweaky' as they used to be I wouldn't want to mess up my new pj, but the idea of getting the right gamma curve and color is awful tempting.
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post #17935 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 10:51 AM
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It sounds a lot more complicated than it is. It's mainly just make sure you understand the steps when you do it the first time.

Basically it's just plug in the spider, put it to the right side of the box, and then go. But there's potential pitfalls along the way that make it seem more complicated. It's really just that first time that's "hard" and that's just taking your time/care to make sure you get it right.
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post #17936 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
It sounds a lot more complicated than it is. It's mainly just make sure you understand the steps when you do it the first time.

Basically it's just plug in the spider, put it to the right side of the box, and then go. But there's potential pitfalls along the way that make it seem more complicated. It's really just that first time that's "hard" and that's just taking your time/care to make sure you get it right.
The biggest issue is how accurate is the meter.
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post #17937 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 11:54 AM
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Seegs ended up selling the Runco 3D stack, the alignment was very difficult.

Thanks for heads up on aspect change, I'll leave my masks off for this one and go full mini-imax. I actually enjoy this - the whole ghostbusters crossing into the scope bars was pretty cool. (waiting for toe's head to explode on this comment.. )

Apollo 13 is due out in October and is a 4K scan from the original 35mm film, looking forward to re-visiting that movie.
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post #17938 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 01:14 PM
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Apollo 13 should look great, but I believe I will blind-buy (again!!!) to hear the soundtrack in Dolby Atmos...(hopefully it will have ATMOS!!!)


That is actually my favorite film of all time.

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post #17939 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 02:27 PM
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Apollo 13 is due out in October and is a 4K scan from the original 35mm film, looking forward to re-visiting that movie.
I look forward to Apollo 13 too (and hopefully one day The Right Stuff on 4k and maybe even From the Earth to the Moon on BD). But I'm a little concerned.

I saw Close Encounters of the Third Kind in the Dolby Cinema for its re-release. I was a little disappointed. It seemed a little better in terms of PQ, but much. Be interested to read how the 4k disc turned out.

And idk if it was mixed in ATMOS, but the audio was terrible. It seemed off, and at times, only coming from the left stage when clearly.it should have been center or right speakers in use.

Hopefully they don't screw up this epic masterpiece...
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post #17940 of 18254 Old 09-27-2017, 02:55 PM
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I look forward to Apollo 13 too (and hopefully one day The Right Stuff on 4k and maybe even From the Earth to the Moon on BD). But I'm a little concerned.

I saw Close Encounters of the Third Kind in the Dolby Cinema for its re-release. I was a little disappointed. It seemed a little better in terms of PQ, but much. Be interested to read how the 4k disc turned out.

And idk if it was mixed in ATMOS, but the audio was terrible. It seemed off, and at times, only coming from the left stage when clearly.it should have been center or right speakers in use.

Hopefully they don't screw up this epic masterpiece...
Close Encounters looks outstanding on UHD BD and like pure film. Do understand the film and conditions how it was made are never going to make this movie look like Avatar; it's inherently a bit softer and grainy.
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