Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 609 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18241 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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@Archibald1 - I was testing a new cable configuration (all monoprice cables) last night and wanted to make sure I was passing full 18GB through my AVR. This is the path:

Panasonic UB900 - 6ft - Denon 7200 - 25ft - HDfury - 3ft - RS600. good news no issues getting max bandwidth in this setup, those cables are excellent and inexpensive.


I took a look at Billy Lynn's in 4K/60 HDR chapter 6, there is no banding at all in this movie in this setup.







The Grobi.tv folks showed this from the current Sony's in their YT video. There is a lot of back and froth in the other threads, is there any confirmation 100% that a specific configuration cannot reproduce this on the 6xx or 3xx series?

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post #18242 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@Archibald1 - I was testing a new cable configuration (all monoprice cables) last night and wanted to make sure I was passing full 18GB through my AVR. This is the path:

Panasonic UB900 - 6ft - Denon 7200 - 25ft - HDfury - 3ft - RS600. good news no issues getting max bandwidth in this setup, those cables are excellent and inexpensive.


I took a look at Billy Lynn's in 4K/60 HDR chapter 6, there is no banding at all in this movie in this setup.







The Grobi.tv folks showed this from the current Sony's in their YT video. There is a lot of back and froth in the other threads, is there any confirmation 100% that a specific configuration cannot reproduce this on the 6xx or 3xx series?

Nice.
Those top two pictures, look proper great. Smooth and with superior colour and realism! Hey, they should use it in their marketing!
That is what I was led to believe I would see from my 550 in HDR 60hz.
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post #18243 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
Well GOTG2 is a different monster I would think.. They have the biggest budget out there to do things right and I bet rendering the cgi at 8k made a difference on how the film looked... Even thought it looked amazing and I have nothing bad to say about it, Lucy looked a bit sharper and I think its because its being put out at 4k.. Guardians was brought down to 2k then upscaled to 4k..

Whatever it is I'm cutting down with the blue rays unless its truly 4k..
I'm not sure I even finished watching GOTG 1, something about it just did not sit right with me.
CTHD Sword of Destiny was ok, not nearly as terrible as the reviews suggest, but also not great. You have to give props to the Chinese for the incredible costumes and color in some of these movies, no-one can do color quite like these recent Martial Arts movies.

There was another martial arts one I saw recently which was 100x better than CTHD, but heck if I can remember the name as I wasn't paying attention to the name.

**New Projector Calculator Released**
Access HERE from this thread

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post #18244 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Correct - using the HD Fury Linker to send 4K HDR BT.2020 from UB900 directly into the RS4910.

Chad and I looked 4K scaled down to 1080p (from Linker) vs e-shift on a R.Masciola 4K text pattern - hands down e-shift was sharper. Didn't get a chance to test it from the player scaling it down though...will have to see if that's an option available on the Linker to test.
Interesting. So I guess you've turned the RS4910 into an HDR projector.

Do you know what video format is actually being sent by the UB900 and what is actually received by the RS4910? Is the 3840x2160@24fps using 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 sampling and at what bit-depth - 8-bit, 10-bit, or 12-bit at each stop of your display chain? I'm guessing it's 8-bit by the time it makes it to the projector due to HDMI 1.4 spec limitations.
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post #18245 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 01:57 PM
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I didn't know it was possible to turn a non HDR display into one.
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post #18246 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Interesting. So I guess you've turned the RS4910 into an HDR projector.

Do you know what video format is actually being sent by the UB900 and what is actually received by the RS4910? Is the 3840x2160@24fps using 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 sampling and at what bit-depth - 8-bit, 10-bit, or 12-bit at each stop of your display chain? I'm guessing it's 8-bit by the time it makes it to the projector due to HDMI 1.4 spec limitations.
The JVC showed 8 bit in the Deep Color information screen.
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post #18247 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
The JVC showed 8 bit in the Deep Color information screen.
I think there are some 10-bit gradient test patterns floating around somewhere on the forum. I wonder if those are fully resolved without color banding.

Just found these for example.
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post #18248 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I didn't know it was possible to turn a non HDR display into one.
That will depend on your definition of "HDR display". The dimmest display officially supported by the UHD HDR spec needs at least 540 nits. By that definition, no front projector is an "HDR display".

It's all approximation on front projectors which leaves room for interpretation even on SDR-only models that have enough lumens, gamma, and gamut calibration flexibility to provide some usable results.
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post #18249 of 18255 Old 10-21-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
That will depend on your definition of "HDR display". The dimmest display officially supported by the UHD HDR spec needs at least 540 nits. By that definition, no front projector is an "HDR display".

It's all approximation on front projectors which leaves room for interpretation even on SDR-only models that have enough lumens, gamma, and gamut calibration flexibility to provide some usable results.
However, HDR can look great on the JVC projectors, you don't need as many in the right set up. But if using the Arves tool it seem possible. I would love to do a comparison to the current HDR generation.
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post #18250 of 18255 Old Yesterday, 07:28 AM
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It's really all about tone mapping for any display/projector. As Kris Deering pointed out, there really is not even any such thing as "SDR conversion". JVC is the only projector manufacturer that I am aware of which allows for the custom gamma curves with the Arve tool so that you can get potentially good tone mapping for HDR embedded content. But yes, the more lumens the better. Even on my RS4910, if I had more lumens I would definitely benefit more like the newer JVC models do that put out a lot more calibrated lumens. Of course, it all also depends on your room, screen size, gain, etc. Someone with a 180" 1.0 gain screen in an "okay" treated room is going to be in a much more difficult situation compared to someone with a 120" screen in a black pit room.

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post #18251 of 18255 Old Yesterday, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
It's really all about tone mapping for any display/projector. As Kris Deering pointed out, there really is not even any such thing as "SDR conversion". JVC is the only projector manufacturer that I am aware of which allows for the custom gamma curves with the Arve tool so that you can get potentially good tone mapping for HDR embedded content. But yes, the more lumens the better. Even on my RS4910, if I had more lumens I would definitely benefit more like the newer JVC models do that put out a lot more calibrated lumens. Of course, it all also depends on your room, screen size, gain, etc. Someone with a 180" 1.0 gain screen in an "okay" treated room is going to be in a much more difficult situation compared to someone with a 120" screen in a black pit room.
I'm sure if you can get close to 30ftL with the 49, it should perform very similar to the current models. I would have probably did the same had i known.
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post #18252 of 18255 Old Yesterday, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I didn't know it was possible to turn a non HDR display into one.
There's really nothing physical special/different about an "HDR" display, they use the same panels and basic physical components and technology as SDR displays. What's different is how they interpret the input signal, and since you can define arbitrary curves with JVCs, it's "easy" to calibrate them. Folks have actually done it the same thing (basically) with the some Epson machines, and Lumagen's Intensity Mapping does the same thing too.
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post #18253 of 18255 Old Yesterday, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
There's really nothing physical special/different about an "HDR" display, they use the same panels and basic physical components and technology as SDR displays. What's different is how they interpret the input signal, and since you can define arbitrary curves with JVCs, it's "easy" to calibrate them. Folks have actually done it the same thing (basically) with the some Epson machines, and Lumagen's Intensity Mapping does the same thing too.

I wonder how my DPI CINE 100 will look with HDR compared to the cheaper pixel shifting DLPs. Since my DPI can reach WCG, I'm hoping that there will be a device that can help.
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post #18254 of 18255 Old Yesterday, 11:18 PM
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I wonder how my DPI CINE 100 will look with HDR compared to the cheaper pixel shifting DLPs. Since my DPI can reach WCG, I'm hoping that there will be a device that can help.
Im thinking you should just sell it to me and not worry about it.

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post #18255 of 18255 Old Today, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I wonder how my DPI CINE 100 will look with HDR compared to the cheaper pixel shifting DLPs. Since my DPI can reach WCG, I'm hoping that there will be a device that can help.
Probably quite a bit better considering you should have 2-3x the contrast and similar calibrated brightness.

And a Lumagen can help
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