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post #91 of 119 Old 03-26-2015, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
How about a radical (and maybe unpopular suggestion)...

Why not go with a "cheap" projector, plus a good lens and just enjoy it and hang out for a year or two, then you can devote the bulk of your budget to a DCI P3 capable "4K" projector?
I have that ability with a budget up to 15k. If I have to bite the bullet in 3 years for something phenomenal Im okay spending up to 15k now. It would be painful but its the price of improved performance I am willing to stomach.

Sports will be watched very much as well as blu ray on this projector, in this room. Its one of the reasons Im so lost in the marketplace, especially since I cannot (mostly) view the choices before I buy. Thanks for the input everyone. Im a sponge right now.
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post #92 of 119 Old 03-26-2015, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll let you in on a little secret. For $15000 you can buy 3 or 4 different projectors that will give you everything you want. The catch is you need to buy used equipment. The only reason why I've been able to own so many units is because I purchase 90% of them used. For $15000 you can buy a high end LED unit (Runco Q750i ~$3000) an ultra high contrast projector (JVC DLA-X500 bstock or used ~$3000) and a used ISCO IIIL with a motorized sled for around $4000, heck you could buy two and still be within your budget. This will give you the best of both worlds. You could use the LED unit for all your long hour sports/TV viewing and the JVC for all your movie viewing.

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post #93 of 119 Old 03-26-2015, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by drbru001 View Post
Thanks for the recs Seegs. I was told to stay away from the Runco's by 2 people in the industry. They think that Runco is going out of business? Mark, the 130 is a diagonal dimension. Thanks for stepping up and helping too! Mark, do you have any other suggestions or are you on board with Seegs?

I think you should buy a used Sony VPL-VW1100ES. I have had mine for about 2 1/2 years now and have seen absolutely nothing I would replace it with. Although different projectors beat it in limited areas, in the net sum game, nothing I have seen, and I have seen a lot, beats it. It ill play 4K Blurays when they come and it will do the DCI P3 color space which I suspect will be the color space for at least the first few years of 4K Bluray. For P3 with a screen your size, you will need a relatively high gain AT screen.
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post #94 of 119 Old 03-27-2015, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I think you should buy a used Sony VPL-VW1100ES. I have had mine for about 2 1/2 years now and have seen absolutely nothing I would replace it with. Although different projectors beat it in limited areas, in the net sum game, nothing I have seen, and I have seen a lot, beats it. It ill play 4K Blurays when they come and it will do the DCI P3 color space which I suspect will be the color space for at least the first few years of 4K Bluray. For P3 with a screen your size, you will need a relatively high gain AT screen.
I second this!
I thought I could sell my VW1100 and change over to the LS10000 which I had on loan. It was good but it just couldn't light up my AT scope 145" diag screen like the Sony can, few can.


Before the VW1100 I owned the VW500/600, the VW1100 is better if you can afford one.
So at this stage I continue to be happy and stick to my 1100, even for slightly less blacks than a new JVC, on a large screen its better!


Prior to the 500/600 I owned the X900, still Sony on a large screen is the best!

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post #95 of 119 Old 03-27-2015, 01:02 AM
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I agree with Mark and Rapallo that the number one choice - had I $15,000 to spend on a pj right now - would be the Sony VPL-VW1100ES. For all the reasons Mark mentioned, plus it's a light cannon.

Is someone going to clue our new friend in to the fact that Sony's PJ prices are artificially inflated in the United States, in the same way that Sharp's were back in the early 2000's?

Why buy a used American VPL-VW1100ES when you can get a brand new Japanese market one delivered to your door for $12,000 from an importer? Or the 500ES for $5,600.

Awwww, so in the unlikely even that it breaks you ship it to Japan for service. Boo hoo. You had to put it in a box, drive to Fedex and read books for a few weeks instead of watching the boob tube in 4K.

You can buy two of them for the price of one new one in the U.S.

As for Seegs' advice on used pj's - I agree with that also. Buy used if you don't want to buy an import.

My X500R/4910 was a B-stock for $3K (Thank you AV Science), and I have an $7,500 Samsung SP-A800B hanging at a different home which I picked up barely used for $1,800. My old Sharp XV-Z9000 I imported for about $5K 12 years ago when they were selling for almost double that via U.S. dealer channels - and it's still going strong 2,200 hours and over a decade later.

No disrespect to U.S. dealers - but when there is a price delta of almost 100% between Japan and the U.S. on a five figure projector - one which may be the best choice for the person asking for advice - it's immoral not to tell him. It's also kind of crappy that Sony puts their dealers here in this position. If the price differential was 10 or 15% that would be one thing - but it's so much less in Japan it's almost comical.
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post #96 of 119 Old 03-27-2015, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbru001 View Post
AT screen and aspect ratio is "supposed to be" 2:35 but I have yet to make up my mind about that as screen size. The 2nd row of seats ability to view the entire screen is yet to be determined which is one of the factors in determining the aspect ratio Mike.

I hear ya on the Runco Seegs. again thanks so much! I just read some of the thread on the new epson laser... curious to see how that works out. I would love to save the money if the image came anywhere close.
Be happy to help you with this. Shoot me an email with viewing distance for both rows and I can calculate riser height required and screen mounting height. Also need ceiling height.

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post #97 of 119 Old 03-27-2015, 11:27 AM
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I'm just curious to see if anyone else on here is as crazy as me as far as purchases go? The unfortunate thing about anything visual is that you need to actually see it in person to really get an understanding of what the product is all about. I have to say that projectors are one of the hardest consumer products to track down to actually audition. That is the main reason why I've gone through so many. I figured the best and easiest way to get access to all these fine projectors was to buy them and then, subsequently, sell them if I didn't like them or had seen better.

Here's what I've gone through; in chronological order: (Updated 9/9/14)


1.) Panasonic PT-AE900U - 720p 3LCD
2.) Sanyo PLV-1080HD - 1080p 3LCD
3.) Epson Home Cinema 6500UB - 1080p 3 LCD
4.) JVC DLA RS10 - 1080p LCOS
5.) JVC DLA-RS20 - 1080p LCOS
6.) Planar PD8150 - 1080p .95" DC3 DLP
7.) Sim2 Domino D80 - 1080p .95" DC3 DLP
8.) Optoma HD20 - 1080p DC2 .65" DLP
9.) Epson 8100 - 1080p 3LCD
10.) Mitsubishi HC7800D - 1080p .65" DC3 3D DLP
11.) Infocus IN81 - 1080p .95" DC2 DLP
12.) InFocus IN82 - 1080p .95" DC3 DLP
13.) InFocus IN83 - 1080p .95" DC4 DLP
14.) JVC DLA-X3 - 1080p 3D LCOS
15.) BenQ W5000 - 1080p .95" DC2 DLP
16.) Marantz VP-11S1 - 1080p .95" DC3 DLP
17.) NuVision ProVu P2 - 1080p .95" DC4 LED DLP
18.) Marantz VP-15S1 - 1080p .95" DC3 DLP
19.) Vivitek H5085 - 1080p .65" DC3 DLP
20.) Samsung SP-A800B - 1080p .95" DC2 DLP
21.) Vivitek H9080FD - 1080p .95" DC4 LED DLP
22.) Runco LS-1 - 1080p .95" DC2 DLP
23.) JVC DLA-X30 - 1080p 3D LCOS
24.) Mitsubishi HC5 - 1080p 3D LCOS
25.) Optoma HD25 - 1080p .65" DC3 3D DLP
26.) BenQ W20000 - 1080p .95" DC3 DLP
27.) JVC DLA-X55R - 1080p 3D E-Shift v.2 LCOS
28.) Optoma HD131Xe - 1080p .65" DC3 3D DLP
29.) Knoll Systems HDP460 - 1080p .95" DC4 DLP
30.) JVC DLA-X90 - 1080p 3D E-Shift v.1 LCOS
31.) Runco RS-900 - 1080p .95" DC2 DLP
32.) Sony VPL-VW90ES - 1080p 3D LCOS
33.) Runco RS-1100 Ultra - 1080p .95" DC3 DLP
34.) Mitsubishi HC7900DW - 1080p 3D .65" DC3 DLP
35.) Sharp XV-Z30000 - 1080p 3D .65" DLP
36.) Runco Q750i - 1080p LED .95" DC4 DLP
37.) JVC DLA-X500 - 1080p 3D E-Shift v.3 LCOS
38.) Runco LS-100D - 1080p .95" DC4 LED DLP
39.) Runco LS-10i - 1080p 1080p 3-Chip .65" Graded DMD's DLP
40.) Sim2 C3X Lumis Host - 1080p 3-Chip .95" DC4 DLP
41.) Planar PD8130 - 1080p User Upgraded to a .95" DC4 DLP
42.) TruVue Vango - 1080p .95" DC4 LED DLP
43.) Digital Projection HIGHlite Cine 1080p-260 HC - 1080p 3-Chip .65" Graded DMD's DLP
44.) Sony VPL-HW30ES - 1080p 3D LCOS

Other odds and ends:

Anamorphic Lenses:
ISCO IIIL with Motorized Sled
Panamorph UH480 with Motorized Sled
Schneider Optics Cine-Digitar (basically a smaller version of the optics in the ISCO IIIL)
Marantz LN-11S1


3D Glasses:

X-Pand 103 - IR
MonsterVision Max - RF(Bit-Couldron BC5000 system)
EStar ESG6100 3D - RF
Stock IR JVC Glasses and Emitter - IR
Stock Mitsubishi HC7800D Glasses & Emitter - IR
Stock Sharp XV-Z30000 AN3DG20B Glasses and Emitter - IR

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Wow! You ever put a dollar figure to this.
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post #98 of 119 Old 03-27-2015, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow! You ever put a dollar figure to this.
It doesn't really work like the way you're thinking. Normally I buy a projector used, play around with it, and then sell it. Typically speaking I either break even reselling it or I make a small profit on it. I'm 25 and not rich. I just know how to work the system.
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post #99 of 119 Old 03-27-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
It doesn't really work like the way you're thinking. Normally I buy a projector used, play around with it, and then sell it. Typically speaking I either break even reselling it or I make a small profit on it. I'm 25 and not rich. I just know how to work the system.
Ok. I gotcha. Going down that list is like taking a walk down memory lane. I went thru the Infocus/Optoma/Benq phases as well. Never owned one but spent enough time with the Marantz's to know their at the top of my list. And the 8150 was spectacular. Classics.
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post #100 of 119 Old 03-27-2015, 01:04 PM
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Seegs,

I still hope you plan on putting the LS10000 thru its paces at some point.
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post #101 of 119 Old 03-28-2015, 12:28 PM
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[QUOTE=chrisreeves;32977681]I agree with Mark and Rapallo that the number one choice - had I $15,000 to spend on a pj right now - would be the Sony VPL-VW1100ES. For all the reasons Mark mentioned, plus it's a light cannon.

Is someone going to clue our new friend in to the fact that Sony's PJ prices are artificially inflated in the United States, in the same way that Sharp's were back in the early 2000's?

Why buy a used American VPL-VW1100ES when you can get a brand new Japanese market one delivered to your door for $12,000 from an importer? Or the 500ES for $5,600.

Awwww, so in the unlikely even that it breaks you ship it to Japan for service. Boo hoo. You had to put it in a box, drive to Fedex and read books for a few weeks instead of watching the boob tube in 4K./QUOTE]



There is a lot more risk in this than you making it out to be. Let's say you are buying from an individual that is stationed in Japan. What happens if the individual is reassigned? If buying from a company here in the states that has a connection in Japan. What are you going to do if that relationship ends? I am assuming to get warranty, you are having to ship to an individual in Japan, not directly to Sony. I doubt that Sony is participating directly in black market projectors. Also the warranty is only for one year on the 500 in Japan. Can you get an extended warranty on a black market projector? I don't know.
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post #102 of 119 Old 03-28-2015, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Seegs,

I still hope you plan on putting the LS10000 thru its paces at some point.
Yes, well sort of. This upcoming Thursday I'll be heading over to another AVSForum members house to check out a LS10000 he currently has. He may even have a Sony VPL-VW350ES there as well. He's not 100% sure on when the Sony will arrive. I'll be bringing over my Runco Q750i and JVC DLA-X500 for comparison.

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post #103 of 119 Old 03-28-2015, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Yes, well sort of. This upcoming Thursday I'll be heading over to another AVSForum members house to check out a LS10000 he currently has. He may even have a Sony VPL-VW350ES there as well. He's not 100% sure on when the Sony will arrive. I'll be bringing over my Runco Q750i and JVC DLA-X500 for comparison.
Seegs, will you be updating this thread with your review and findings on those projectors?
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post #104 of 119 Old 03-28-2015, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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It will either be here or in Zombie's shootout thread. This thread was bumped recently. I don't normally post in this thread. It's gotten a lot more traffic recently however.

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post #105 of 119 Old 03-30-2015, 08:53 AM
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Im looking forward to your Epson comparison to the Sony, Runco and JVC... this should be great!
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post #106 of 119 Old 03-30-2015, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Also the warranty is only for one year on the 500 in Japan. Can you get an extended warranty on a black market projector? I don't know.
You can not get an extended warranty on a Japanese 500es, even from someone buying it in Japan. I checked into this. That is why I am waiting for this year's 4k models to come out.

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post #107 of 119 Old 03-30-2015, 09:59 PM
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I have that ability with a budget up to 15k. If I have to bite the bullet in 3 years for something phenomenal Im okay spending up to 15k now. It would be painful but its the price of improved performance I am willing to stomach.

Sports will be watched very much as well as blu ray on this projector, in this room. Its one of the reasons Im so lost in the marketplace, especially since I cannot (mostly) view the choices before I buy. Thanks for the input everyone. Im a sponge right now.
I agree with Stanger. Cedia was quiet last year and I think there will be some interesting new pjs this year. There might not be any 4k DLPs on the cheap, but there might be some laser/leds from more than one manufacturer.

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post #108 of 119 Old 04-02-2015, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Im looking forward to your Epson comparison to the Sony, Runco and JVC... this should be great!
Here are my thoughts on the LS10000 vs the JVC DLA-X500 (unfortunately the Sony hasn't arrived yet so we couldn't include it in our comparison, though I plan to visit again when it does come in):

Projector Mini-Shootout Thread

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post #109 of 119 Old 04-02-2015, 08:43 PM
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thanks for all your efforts and posting!
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post #110 of 119 Old 04-02-2015, 09:16 PM
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Thanks Dylan. Great comparison.
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post #111 of 119 Old 09-05-2015, 11:15 PM
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I'm just curious to see if anyone else on here is as crazy as me as far as purchases go?
This list looks like my cell phone list. lol.

Surely you could have skipped 70% of this list by making solid assumptions that they probably were not better than what you already had. I went from a Panasonic PT-AE7000U to a JVC RS46, but also bought (and returned) a Panasonic PT-AE8000U for comparison (in sig), I didn't think it would be better than the JVC...and sure enough, it wasn't.

Any dummy knows the Sony VPL-VW1100ES is pretty much the best it gets for home cinema, but I'd rather have a car...and a boat.

I'll be interested to see what happens with 4K projector pricing as its unusually high in comparison to 1080p, especially when you look at the price difference between a 70" 1080 & 70" 4K (its like $500). It'll be nice to pickup a nice 4K Sony or JVC for under $5K, that's when I'll upgrade next.

Keep posting your thoughts on your purchases, so I don't have to.
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post #112 of 119 Old 09-06-2015, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Any dummy knows the Sony VPL-VW1100ES is pretty much the best it gets for home cinema, but I'd rather have a car...and a boat.
It isn't as black and white as you're saying. It isn't the defacto best projector out there. There are still a few areas where it isn't the best. On/off contrast is much much better on the JVCs. This area alone makes it so the 1100ES loses a decent amount of overall points. There are many days that I go back and forth on which projector I like better, the 1100ES or the X500?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
This assumption would be incorrect or at least it shouldn't be as black and white as you're saying. It isn't the defacto best projector out there. There are still a few areas where it isn't the best. On/off contrast is much much better on the JVCs. This area alone makes it so the 1100ES loses a decent amount of overall points. There are many days that I go back and forth on which projector do I like better, the 1100ES or the X500?
Interesting. I certainly hope 4K comes out quick for JVC and the price drops like a rock. (Unfortunately, probably 3 years.)

I really like my JVC projector and the deep blacks, my only three complaints is I wish it was brighter and the lens light leak is annoying, but the lack of pixel perfect precision in the lens shift is frustrating and completely unacceptable, quite frankly.

What is your opinion on true 4K vs e-Shift?

Last edited by Dreamliner; 09-06-2015 at 06:15 AM.
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post #114 of 119 Old 09-06-2015, 09:26 AM
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This list looks like my cell phone list. lol.

Surely you could have skipped 70% of this list by making solid assumptions that they probably were not better than what you already had. I went from a Panasonic PT-AE7000U to a JVC RS46, but also bought (and returned) a Panasonic PT-AE8000U for comparison (in sig), I didn't think it would be better than the JVC...and sure enough, it wasn't.

Any dummy knows the Sony VPL-VW1100ES is pretty much the best it gets for home cinema, but I'd rather have a car...and a boat.

I'll be interested to see what happens with 4K projector pricing as its unusually high in comparison to 1080p, especially when you look at the price difference between a 70" 1080 & 70" 4K (its like $500). It'll be nice to pickup a nice 4K Sony or JVC for under $5K, that's when I'll upgrade next.

Keep posting your thoughts on your purchases, so I don't have to.
As he pointed out, he isn't loosing money on any of these pjs. After meeting Dillon, you realize he really loves the hobby. I used to be into it much more back when I was his age.

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post #115 of 119 Old 12-20-2015, 08:00 AM
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Seegs108,

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47.) Sony VPL-VW1000ES (Upgraded to an 1100ES) - 4K 3D LCOS
...
49.) Sim2 Lumis 3D-S
not sure if this is off-topic, but as you have probably extensively used these two, how does the stereoscopic 3D (apart from brightness) compare?
Do you use motionflow in 3D with the 1000 and how does it look?
I use a Lumis 3D-S since it was released, and the 3D projection is pretty much as good as it can get, but with 4k around the corner I am considering a change.
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post #116 of 119 Old 12-20-2015, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post
Seegs108,



not sure if this is off-topic, but as you have probably extensively used these two, how does the stereoscopic 3D (apart from brightness) compare?
Do you use motionflow in 3D with the 1000 and how does it look?
I use a Lumis 3D-S since it was released, and the 3D projection is pretty much as good as it can get, but with 4k around the corner I am considering a change.
Personally speaking, I would pass on the 1100ES and wait for a native 4K JVC. One will most likely come out next fall. JVC has shown this year that they've increased 3D performance well beyond any other non-DLP projector by having minimal ghosting and an extremely bright image. The Sony 4K units have more ghosting than the current generation JVC units and therefore a DLP projector like the 3D-S. There's also the issue of contrast loss on the Sony 4K units and this is a big deal in my opinion. Contrast starts around 10000:1 on most units and lowers itself down to around 2500:1-3000:1 after only a short amount of time. If you were considering a Sony 4K I'd wait until this issue has been confirmed to be gone. Though who knows when that will be. Until then, hold on to your 3D-S. I didn't use motionflow on the Sony while watching 3D. I don't like the effect it gives to motion.

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post #117 of 119 Old 12-20-2015, 02:36 PM
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Thanks for your reply!
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Personally speaking, I would pass on the 1100ES and wait for a native 4K JVC.
Actually I won't replace the Lumis 3D-S with a 1100ES, but maybe with the upcoming VPL-GTZ270 / VPL-VW5000ES.
I doubt a JVC would make me happy, they are usually no light cannons. Even the Lumis isn't bright enough.
In lack of existence of the 5000, I wanted an (unbiased, because you owned them all?) opinion from someone, who has experienced stereoscopic 3D on both the Lumis and a high-end 4K Sony.
Looks like the Sony is no match.
(Assuming the 5000 performs similar to the 1100 when showing 3D)
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post #118 of 119 Old 12-20-2015, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply!


Actually I won't replace the Lumis 3D-S with a 1100ES, but maybe with the upcoming VPL-GTZ270 / VPL-VW5000ES.
I doubt a JVC would make me happy, they are usually no light cannons. Even the Lumis isn't bright enough.
In lack of existence of the 5000, I wanted an (unbiased, because you owned them all?) opinion from someone, who has experienced stereoscopic 3D on both the Lumis and a high-end 4K Sony.
Looks like the Sony is no match.
(Assuming the 5000 performs similar to the 1100 when showing 3D)
The GTZ270 and VW5000 will be brighter, but they use the same .74" 4K panels so expect 3D performance to be the same. The current JVCs are actually a bit brighter than the 1100ES. While Sony has seemed to acknowledge a contrast loss issue we don't know yet whether or not the 5000ES will be totally immune. I would wait for confirmation on what Sony is going to do before you make the investment in getting one.

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post #119 of 119 Old 12-20-2015, 10:04 PM
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If you want lumens, then you could try stacking. I think Rod or Darin said it takes about twenty minutes for the projectors to be stable for a stack though. A stacking processor and two RS500s would set you back around $12k or so.

Current projector - JVC RS25 and Marantz VP15S1
Future projector - pre-ordered new JVC from AVScience
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