Chromapure Advance Auto Calibration, does it work ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 11-19-2012, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys,

The chromapure Auto Calibration feature has been what I have been waiting for as having a young family and multiple hobbies I could not see myself spending hours looking at test screens and adjusting CMS manually.

Chromapure now has an advanced auto calibration feature that can calibrate up to 125 points.

If you have used these features before please share on:

1. Ease of use;
2. Effectiveness before and after;
3. Accuracy.

Since it’s a considerable investment of $2k (including lumagen, xpro display, software), I really would like to hear from the users whether you believe its worthwhile. I will be using it to color calibrate a JVC RS40.

I am new to the whole color calibration space so I would also like to find out if having more accurate colors actually enhance the immersiveness of the move experience rather than just getting color accurate for the sake of adhering to industry standards e.g. directors intentions etc.

Bottom line: does all these stuff make the picture look better ?
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post #2 of 10 Old 11-19-2012, 05:09 PM
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It works. Its easy. And yes most pictures look better after calibration. Why I say most is that if you are say watching football games having the exact colors is not of primary importance especially if you don't know what the exact colors would be. For movies, if the colors don't look right to you, say the color of a red stop sign, then some of the fooling you into you are there will be lost. Just like using a screen with gain will always remind you that you are watching a screen and not looking through a window which a good 1.0 gain screen will do.

Now I have the full monty with the 125 point calibration capability. But I don't use it with my Sony 1000ES. I do use it to set the primaries and secondaries, gray scale, and gamma but the Sony is so accurate at calulating the right colors, that after spot checking points within the triangle I find no errors to be corrected. But some projectors can benefit from 125 points and you will notice the improvement in such things as flesh tones. Most oy your cost is for the Lumagen and there is a big Lumsage sale going on this weekend. Also the Lumsagen does a lot more than just proving calibration adjustments and automation of the calibration process.

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post #3 of 10 Old 11-19-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

It works. Its easy. And yes most pictures look better after calibration. Why I say most is that if you are say watching football games having the exact colors is not of primary importance especially if you don't know what the exact colors would be. For movies, if the colors don't look right to you, say the color of a red stop sign, then some of the fooling you into you are there will be lost. Just like using a screen with gain will always remind you that you are watching a screen and not looking through a window which a good 1.0 gain screen will do.
Now I have the full monty with the 125 point calibration capability. But I don't use it with my Sony 1000ES. I do use it to set the primaries and secondaries, gray scale, and gamma but the Sony is so accurate at calulating the right colors, that after spot checking points within the triangle I find no errors to be corrected. But some projectors can benefit from 125 points and you will notice the improvement in such things as flesh tones. Most oy your cost is for the Lumagen and there is a big Lumsage sale going on this weekend. Also the Lumsagen does a lot more than just proving calibration adjustments and automation of the calibration process.

Mark - while I do agree that the Sony's are nicely accurate with their default color space, I think it is a mistake to assume that the color tracking *within* the triangle is fully accurate and error free. Run the Colorchecker in CalMAN v5. What does it show you? This is a great tool and will analyze many common colors such as skin tones, foliage, sky, etc and show you how much error is there. With the VW95 color in the default color space is under saturated somewhat and there are some tracking issues that CalMAN nicely adjusts in the auto 5x5x5 cube calibration. Takes about 40 minutes, but can vary depending on the meter.
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post #4 of 10 Old 11-19-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndonlim View Post

...Bottom line: does all these stuff make the picture look better ?

Proper calibration definitely looks great. How much better depends on what display you are starting with... Just about all displays have room for improvement no matter how good they may be out of the box, especially with color reproduction. Note that the Lumagen has value far beyond just auto-calibration.
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post #5 of 10 Old 11-20-2012, 03:56 AM
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I'm also very curious about this and just recently bought a Display 3 Pro with Chromapure (still in shipment). Question is, is it easy enough to use for me to use to be able to do a proper calibration without autocal and without spending hours on end to learn the art? I would not mind getting a lumagen, but due to the price it would have to be a longer term investment (5+ years of use) and with 4K just around the corner I just don't feel it's future proof. It would really suck if I bought it and lumagen relased a 4K version next year and affordable 4K projektors came out on the market (e.g. if Sonys successor to VW95 inherited its big brothers 4K panels)...
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-20-2012, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Mark - while I do agree that the Sony's are nicely accurate with their default color space, I think it is a mistake to assume that the color tracking *within* the triangle is fully accurate and error free. Run the Colorchecker in CalMAN v5. What does it show you? This is a great tool and will analyze many common colors such as skin tones, foliage, sky, etc and show you how much error is there. With the VW95 color in the default color space is under saturated somewhat and there are some tracking issues that CalMAN nicely adjusts in the auto 5x5x5 cube calibration. Takes about 40 minutes, but can vary depending on the meter.

Ric. I haven't run Calman in awhile but Tom and I did run Chromaspure using a very accurate spectro. Rather than run auto cal and 125 points. We hand calibrated the usual 7 points, pri, sec, white. Then we used the Radiance to generate some spot check colors inside the color space. We found no discrepencies checking about 10 points and felt no gain would be had switching to a faster less asccurate meter and then letting the auto cal run for the 125 points. Like I say you are always welcom to take the 25 minute drive over and plsay with my machine. It would be interesting to compare your findings with Tom's. I think, and it gets confusing to remember it all, that the color in the 1000ES is more accurate than the 95 and the 95 requires more touch up but I am not sure and I think much would depend on bulb age in running hours.

But when push comes to shove, with my sports watching, accurate colors etc is of secondary importance. Because its live with various lighting, sky, flood, studeo, studeo back at central, on the trucks, at the stadium, accurate colors under all those changing conditions is just not possible because of the varying sources. Some shots will be too saturated while others will be spot on.

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post #7 of 10 Old 11-20-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

I'm also very curious about this and just recently bought a Display 3 Pro with Chromapure (still in shipment). Question is, is it easy enough to use for me to use to be able to do a proper calibration without autocal and without spending hours on end to learn the art? I would not mind getting a lumagen, but due to the price it would have to be a longer term investment (5+ years of use) and with 4K just around the corner I just don't feel it's future proof. It would really suck if I bought it and lumagen relased a 4K version next year and affordable 4K projektors came out on the market (e.g. if Sonys successor to VW95 inherited its big brothers 4K panels)...

Chromapure is really simple t use and it doesn't require hours and hours to learn. Morans, literally morans, have been certified by ISF as calibration qualified. The test is rigrous, you must regurgitate what they teach you including their ranking of PQ components in order of importance. But none of it is that difficult. Not to say that specific calibrators can't work wonders by knowing certain projectors inside out and making intelligent compromises. But if you can use a few test patterns to set contrast brightness sharpness etc and then can follow the bouncing ball in Chromapure or Calman and put up a few color targets, setting the chromacity is easy. Gray scales and gamma ia pretty simple too and lots of help is available. The biggest problem is meter accuracy. Inexpensive choices are available and you can get very good results but don't chase getting vanishing decimal point errors because the meters are just not acvcurate enough for that, Once you get with des of 2, getting closer is just wasting your time.

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post #8 of 10 Old 11-20-2012, 08:28 AM
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Like anything, I think he will get out of it what he puts into it. There is a learning curve even with auto calibration because you need to get some basics set up right, and you need enough of an understanding to know if the calibration is coming out right and to manually tweak it if not. That said, the amount of work and learning curve is drastically reduced.

Mark it would be great to see your VW1000 some time. The main challenge is finding a nice block of time so we can really play with it. It will be interesting to see what CalMAN says about the color tracking accuracy. Spot checking some colors is good. My guess is that there are some shades of color that may have noticeable errors, for no other reason than I am not aware of any consumer level display that has perfectly linear color tracking. I would think you could easily profile that expensive, slow meter with a cheaper meter like the i1D3 and not sacrifice quality of the measurements while getting the full cube done.
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post #9 of 10 Old 11-22-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Just like using a screen with gain will always remind you that you are watching a screen and not looking through a window which a good 1.0 gain screen will do.

That's a new one on me.

Unless your remark is restricted to angular reflective, in which case the hotspotting is a dead giveaway.

Noah
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post #10 of 10 Old 11-22-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Chromapure is really simple t use and it doesn't require hours and hours to learn. Morans, literally morans, have been certified by ISF as calibration qualified. The test is rigrous, you must regurgitate what they teach you including their ranking of PQ components in order of importance. But none of it is that difficult. Not to say that specific calibrators can't work wonders by knowing certain projectors inside out and making intelligent compromises. But if you can use a few test patterns to set contrast brightness sharpness etc and then can follow the bouncing ball in Chromapure or Calman and put up a few color targets, setting the chromacity is easy. Gray scales and gamma ia pretty simple too and lots of help is available. The biggest problem is meter accuracy. Inexpensive choices are available and you can get very good results but don't chase getting vanishing decimal point errors because the meters are just not acvcurate enough for that, Once you get with des of 2, getting closer is just wasting your time.

Assuming that one has a Radiance Mini do you recommend the standard version of Chromapure or the Auto calibration or the Advanced auto calibration version

Thanks
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