Do I need to jump to 3 Chip DLP? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 38 Old 11-25-2012, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
avtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 71
I am working on my HT and I am trying to pick my PJ. I will have a light controlled room. It will be used for 60% movies, 30% Sports & Gaming and 10% music.

Width: 13.5'
Depth: 21'
Ceiling: 9'
Seating Distances: 10' & 16'
PJ Throw: 19'
AT Screen: Enlightor 4k 2:37 120" wide / 130.2 Diag (.98 Gain)

I have been looking at the Runco LS-5 and JVC X70. So my concern with either of these units is brightness for my setup. The Enlightor is listed at .98 gain but from what I understand it is closer to .70 or .80.

So if the gain was .70 or .80 (Using the calc on projector central) the LS-5 would be between 12-14 fL and the JVC would be between 11-13 fL. I like a bright picture and want some flexibility to have some lights on for superbowl, gaming etc.

So this weekend I looked at the 3 Chip Runco VX-11d. Stunning to say the least. Great colors, rich detail and plenty bright. So if I went 3 chip it would be the Runco LS-10i. This would calculate to 24-28 fL in my setup. I can stretch the budget for the 3 chip if it is the right way to go. I am a buy it right once kind of guy.

So my questions are:

1) Has anyone used the LS-5 or X70 with this or similar size and gain screen? Where you happy with the brightness?

2) If they were bright enough would you recommend one over the other in my setup?

3) Should I make the jump to the 3 chip DLP LS-10i?

4) If 3 chip is the way to go are their any other units I should be looking at in the low $20K MSRP range?

5) I guess the other option is to change screens. But it would have to be woven. I don't like the micro perfs at all.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!!

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
avtexan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 38 Old 11-26-2012, 05:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
If you can afford the 3 chip then I would go for it! I recently went from a jvc x70 to an older infocus 777 3 chip dlp and yes I give up some of the modern features but the 3 chip dlp just has the brightness and 3d depth that the jvc can't compete with.

If the Ls10 was in my budget I would have purchased that one, I don't think I could go back from the 3 chipper:D
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #3 of 38 Old 11-26-2012, 06:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Btw, when I had the x70 in my fully light controlled room, dark brown walls and ceiling at 110 diag and I was barley getting 9fl on with a new bulb.

My 777 is pushing 30fl calibrated on the same 110 zero gain white screen
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #4 of 38 Old 11-26-2012, 06:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
danieledmunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bermuda
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 15
regarding point 3 - the Runco you demoed uses a different size DLP chip to the LS10i. The VX11d uses the 0.95" chip, the LS10i uses the 0.67" chip. Personally, I find the bigger chips produce a better image, it can depend on lens quality as well but according to mlang46 (retired optical engineer) on here - size does indeed matter. I wouldn't want you to be dissappointed if you ended up buying the LS10i and wondered why it didn't look quite as good as the VX11D. The differences might not be that great but I thought it would be better that you know that in advance. There are plenty of threads on here of people arguing the virtues of LCOS vs DLP, DLP chip size etc.

On point 4 - it is definitely worth demoing some Sim2 models, their latest 3D models are pricey but you may be able to find an ex-demo deal from a dealer on an older Lumis. You might want to look at the Lumis Uno, it has some trade-offs (no dynamic iris, no motorized lens) but can be found for the budget you are looking at. I would also recommend looking at the Sony VW1000ES, the best non-DLP projector I have seen. It has great native contrast and can (when the content is available) do 4K resolution. Even without 4K, I'd still take a 3 chip DLP but I'd still find somewhere to demo the Sony, if you can.

Point 5 - no, I don't like micro-perfs either smile.gif For 120" you would probably need to change the screen to a higher gain to use a JVC or a LS5. Whilst you could spend the money to change the screen, the labour to do so and get a JVC - personally, I'd still buy a 3-chipper. As good as the latest JVCs are, the Sim2s and the Sony are just in another league.

In terms of a long term choice, I would read some of the comments from 3 chip owners on the $20k forum, very rarely do you hear about them wanting to upgrade and I am sure they could if they wanted to.

danieledmunds is offline  
post #5 of 38 Old 11-26-2012, 06:22 AM
Senior Member
 
tehotaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I had the pleasure of owning the Infocus 777 for 7 years, an amazing piece of gerar to be sure.

I recently replaced it with a Sony VPL-HW50ES and I will list the ne changes in my book:


1: The Sony is much resolves detail MUCH better, I did not expect the dramatic change at my viewing distance but it is there. The Infocus Minolta lens was optically more perfect, but did not result in picture detail over the 1080chip and supporting electronic enhancements.

2: The contrast ratio / dynamic range is out of this world, the Infocus ( which I loved) looked a little flat in a Side by Side comparaison

3: Black level, absolutely no contest here, it is like when you went from a data projector to an HT optimized unit.. way back when.

4: Color Accuracy and saturation is about the same with both

5: Brightness, the Sony is about 15-20 % brighter than the 3 chip which was a big surprise.

6: Motion with the FI set to low show even less judder that the3 Chip with minimal Soap Opera effect, if at all


If I had never seen the two side by side I would still be in love with my 777 and it would be here, it is an amazing picture to this day.
It does have some of that "x factor" to the picture


3d great, not comparable or fair, but the 3d is a great addition to a system that was needing an update.



All of these tests are in my absolute blackout cave which really allows the projector to do it's best and not have to overcome the enviroment
it is in.

Have a look at the Sony and maybe wait for it's successor to the 95.... I can't say enough about this line of projectors.




TJ
tehotaone is offline  
post #6 of 38 Old 11-26-2012, 07:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
danieledmunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bermuda
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I think for the sake of clarity, if the original poster doesn't know, that the Infocus 777 is a 720p projector first manufacured in 2004. As you can see from the posts above, different people prefer different qualities in image reproduction which is why I would recommend demoing

danieledmunds is offline  
post #7 of 38 Old 11-26-2012, 09:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 151
FWIW, I've got a Planar 8150 (LS5) on a 110" wide SMX AT screen (maybe 0.9 maybe 1.16x gain depending on who you ask), and I find the brightness to be quite good. I've replaced the lamp at between 1000-1500 hours so far.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #8 of 38 Old 11-26-2012, 01:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehotaone View Post

I had the pleasure of owning the Infocus 777 for 7 years, an amazing piece of gerar to be sure.
I recently replaced it with a Sony VPL-HW50ES and I will list the ne changes in my book:
1: The Sony is much resolves detail MUCH better, I did not expect the dramatic change at my viewing distance but it is there. The Infocus Minolta lens was optically more perfect, but did not result in picture detail over the 1080chip and supporting electronic enhancements.
2: The contrast ratio / dynamic range is out of this world, the Infocus ( which I loved) looked a little flat in a Side by Side comparaison
3: Black level, absolutely no contest here, it is like when you went from a data projector to an HT optimized unit.. way back when.
4: Color Accuracy and saturation is about the same with both
5: Brightness, the Sony is about 15-20 % brighter than the 3 chip which was a big surprise.
6: Motion with the FI set to low show even less judder that the3 Chip with minimal Soap Opera effect, if at all

If I had never seen the two side by side I would still be in love with my 777 and it would be here, it is an amazing picture to this day.
It does have some of that "x factor" to the picture
3d great, not comparable or fair, but the 3d is a great addition to a system that was needing an update.
All of these tests are in my absolute blackout cave which really allows the projector to do it's best and not have to overcome the enviroment
it is in.
Have a look at the Sony and maybe wait for it's successor to the 95.... I can't say enough about this line of projectors.
TJ

Tj, glad to hear you got a pj and are happy, I'm curious though did you have you 777 pro calibrated when you had it? With the 777 it can one click away from looking ok to great!

Bob
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #9 of 38 Old 11-27-2012, 11:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 18

I have a vw95 in a room almost exactly your size and a 2.37 Carada BW, 1.1 gain, 120 wide.

 

I get 14 fl off that screen in a bat cave that is satisfyingly bright for movies/hdtv, and black levels are near reference.

 

But if having some light on is part of your viewing enviornment for sports then the 3 chip DLP will pull ahead of LCOS.  The sharpness and motion handling will also be better than even the VW1000, although many report they are find no fault in those parameters.

 

It would seem the only thing that is limited in DLP is black level, and if that is not of critical importance to you, it's hard to argue against the brightness and better motion handling of DLP, especially the 3 chippers that eliminate the RBE of single chip designs.

jlanzy is offline  
post #10 of 38 Old 11-27-2012, 01:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my home theater ( when I'm not rock climbing, cycling or kayaking ) - Sacramento CA area
Posts: 5,204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
Liked: 292
You should see a SIM Lumis if possible. Best projector I've ever owned. Plenty bright. Excellent blacks.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
Craig Peer is offline  
post #11 of 38 Old 11-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Senior Member
 
tehotaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Bob,

This is far more than a click away. There is no click for the resolution and sharpness difference. The black level on this is really good, the iris is undetectable.

Over the 7 years I owned it I calibrated the 777 a few times in different rooms---- .313 / .329 (2.2)

The picture looks like the 777 in every positive way...except way better blacks, natural saturation without that "DLP glow" . The highlights hold detail in areas close to 255 with none of the DLP shimmer.

Intrascene has the pop of DLP, the dynamic range is amazing, 3D is very good with minimal artifacts (using Monster 3D Visions)

Unbelievably... the HW50 is substantially brighter, more silent and economical to run. It is all around an good upgrade.

Now ....the 777 still has a picture that is amazing given it's age, and the optics are still in a different class.... but I have to say the HW50 has it beat hands down.


I will say if I had not seen them side by side I would not have believed it.

And I agree with Craig, if I could afford / justify a Sim2 Lumis 3D...without divorce proceedings..... that would be the obvious choice smile.gif

All the best

TJ
tehotaone is offline  
post #12 of 38 Old 11-27-2012, 05:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I agree there's a point that you can overspend on a pj, I too would be eating TV dinners and living in a one room apartment if I spent 20k on a pj;)
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #13 of 38 Old 11-27-2012, 07:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 4,252
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post

I agree there's a point that you can overspend on a pj, I too would be eating TV dinners and living in a one room apartment if I spent 20k on a pj;)

Yeah, but you'd have a Sim2 Lumis...that's a no brainer rolleyes.gif
Seegs108 is offline  
post #14 of 38 Old 11-27-2012, 08:17 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,975
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

I have a vw95 in a room almost exactly your size and a 2.37 Carada BW, 1.1 gain, 120 wide.

I get 14 fl off that screen in a bat cave that is satisfyingly bright for movies/hdtv, and black levels are near reference.

But if having some light on is part of your viewing enviornment for sports then the 3 chip DLP will pull ahead of LCOS.  The sharpness and motion handling will also be better than even the VW1000, although many report they are find no fault in those parameters.

It would seem the only thing that is limited in DLP is black level, and if that is not of critical importance to you, it's hard to argue against the brightness and better motion handling of DLP, especially the 3 chippers that eliminate the RBE of single chip designs.

Three chip DLP may not be any sharper than three chip LCOS.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #15 of 38 Old 11-28-2012, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
avtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Thanks for the great feedback from everybody. I think the consensus is with my set up and desire for some ambient light flexibility I don’t think the single chip DLP or JVC's will work.

So I think it will be the Runco LS-10i or the Sony VW1000ES. Does anybody have any thoughts between the 2 units for my setup? 3D is not a big deal to me at all.

I have seen several posts talking about DLP's advantage in motion. As I demo the Sony what should I be looking for and what is DLP's advantage here?

I am not sure how accurate it is but the calc on projector central shows the Sony VW1000ES to be 10fL with my setup. That does not seem correct.

As far as other 3 chip DLP's go I have heard great things about the sim2 but isn't the msrp of the lumis uno 30K? Is this their entry level 3 chip?

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
avtexan is offline  
post #16 of 38 Old 11-28-2012, 09:16 AM
Member
 
NABCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Portugal
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hello,

I have a Runco LS-10i and I am very very happy...compared against JVC X90 LCOS and Runco LS-5...in the end I choose LS-10i. The picture of LS10i is phenomenal !...very good contrast and very bright...like a big plasma!

Nuno
NABCS is offline  
post #17 of 38 Old 11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by NABCS View Post

Hello,
I have a Runco LS-10i and I am very very happy...compared against JVC X90 LCOS and Runco LS-5...in the end I choose LS-10i. The picture of LS10i is phenomenal !...very good contrast and very bright...like a big plasma!
Nuno

I hate you!........... I'm just kidding;)

Seriously though pm me in a few years when you want to sell it:D
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #18 of 38 Old 11-28-2012, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
avtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by NABCS View Post

Hello,
I have a Runco LS-10i and I am very very happy...compared against JVC X90 LCOS and Runco LS-5...in the end I choose LS-10i. The picture of LS10i is phenomenal !...very good contrast and very bright...like a big plasma!
Nuno

So if you had it to do over today with 4k on the horizon would you do the LS-10i or the Sony VW1000ES? What would the deciding factor(s) be for you.

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
avtexan is offline  
post #19 of 38 Old 11-28-2012, 05:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

So if you had it to do over today with 4k on the horizon would you do the LS-10i or the Sony VW1000ES? What would the deciding factor(s) be for you.

I think when spending 25k you should either find a store where you can view them or maybe some fellow members who own them will offer you a demo.

It's like test driving a car one might have more power and the other might handle better , what features are more important to you?
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #20 of 38 Old 11-28-2012, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
avtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post

I think when spending 25k you should either find a store where you can view them or maybe some fellow members who own them will offer you a demo.
It's like test driving a car one might have more power and the other might handle better , what features are more important to you?

I agree totally about the need for a demo. I am going to see the Sony on Friday. I am trying to get a feel for the things that I should be looking for when I demo. So to use your example I am open to any advice that will help me get the most of my test drive.

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
avtexan is offline  
post #21 of 38 Old 11-29-2012, 06:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I agree totally about the need for a demo. I am going to see the Sony on Friday. I am trying to get a feel for the things that I should be looking for when I demo. So to use your example I am open to any advice that will help me get the most of my test drive.

I have not seen the Sony but with my x70 the panning effect with sports, hgtv was killer the way the camera moves around, the office, and movies on bluray made it difficult for me to enjoy. The modes that jvc offers to adjust motion in my opinion just don't look natural to me!

With dlp you don't notice the lag, it feels more natural.

Against the jvc the 3 chip and single chip both had more depth especially with close ups of people.

These are just some of the things I noticed, maybe others will chime in.

Bob
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #22 of 38 Old 12-02-2012, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
avtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 71
I am still on the fence between the Runco LS-10i or the Sony VW1000ES. Does anybody have any thoughts between the 2 units for my setup?

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
avtexan is offline  
post #23 of 38 Old 12-02-2012, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am still on the fence between the Runco LS-10i or the Sony VW1000ES. Does anybody have any thoughts between the 2 units for my setup?

Did you see the Sony on fri?

The runco will have the better brightness and the Sony will offer 3d.

Either way 25k is a lot of dough to spend on a pj
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #24 of 38 Old 12-02-2012, 12:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 4,252
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am still on the fence between the Runco LS-10i or the Sony VW1000ES. Does anybody have any thoughts between the 2 units for my setup?

This is really only answerable by you. You need to sit down and think about what YOU value most in a front projector. The DLP will have that classic "DLP" look to it. Higher ANSI contrast is a huge plus with DLP systems. It will also be brighter. Are those things you value higher? The Sony will have a better black floor due to it's dynamic iris. It is also native 4K which will make your units usable life a bit longer as you won't have a compelling need or want to upgrade in a few years. It is also 3D capable, whether or not you want to watch 3D you'll always have the option down the road if you so choose to use it. Both units are fantastic choices, but don't leave the decision up to people who don't have similar tastes. View them both and decide. I would say make sure you watch the same material on both. Mix up the content, too. Watch some high contrast stuff, bright stuff, fast motion stuff, and sports.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #25 of 38 Old 12-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Member
 
NABCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Portugal
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I saw a demo of Sony VW1000 this weekend. Very good picture. Bright and good contrast...but the color was a little off...probably needed calibration.

But sincerely I think I still prefer my Runco...color is perfect (don´t need calibration) and much more bright and punchier.

For now I don´t see much room for improvement.

Nuno
NABCS is offline  
post #26 of 38 Old 12-04-2012, 11:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 20,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 543 Post(s)
Liked: 544
The sony while allowing cut and gain settings for each of R,G, and B does not include a CMS to set the chromacity. Any external processor with a CMS is needed for that.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #27 of 38 Old 12-04-2012, 01:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 28
SIM2 Lumis UNO has full-size (.95) DLP chips and excellent optics. It will be less "soft" looking than the Sony and it has a great color management system. You can get one for 25k. Their M.150 is also a candidate in this price range, though you would have to go down a bit in screen size to get the FL you're looking for. It makes the best picture I have ever seen.
Pete is offline  
post #28 of 38 Old 12-04-2012, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
avtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by NABCS View Post

I saw a demo of Sony VW1000 this weekend. Very good picture. Bright and good contrast...but the color was a little off...probably needed calibration.
But sincerely I think I still prefer my Runco...color is perfect (don´t need calibration) and much more bright and punchier.
For now I don´t see much room for improvement.
Nuno

I got a chance to see the vw1000es on Sunday. I compared it to a Runco LS-3 (no LS-10 available) and a JVC x70 that I saw today. I watched all of them on the same BD of Seabiscuit. On the opening chapter it has some slow pans of black & white still pics. The Sony blacks were ink black and looked very sharp. I put the Runco behind the Sony but close. Now on the slow pans the Runco was very smooth. The Sony was close but the JVC seemed jerky.

The motion of the horse races was interesting. The Runco was the clear winner here. The Sony was close but again the JVC was not as smooth and seemed grainy.

Overall I felt like the Sony was missing something. My everyday TV is a Fujitsu plasma that I love. The Sony did not have the punch that I like. The Runco had the pop that I always read about. So in the end I think that it may be worth it to give up 4k, 3D (which I dont care about) and a little bit of shadow detail which the Sony excelled at for better sharpness, color, motion, light output and a CMS. I really liked the skin tones on the Runco as well. It will be interesting to see how the 4k format will play out.

So I will work to find a demo of LS-10i to be sure. Any other thoughts will be appreciated.

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
avtexan is offline  
post #29 of 38 Old 12-04-2012, 06:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I got a chance to see the vw1000es on Sunday. I compared it to a Runco LS-3 (no LS-10 available) and a JVC x70 that I saw today. I watched all of them on the same BD of Seabiscuit. On the opening chapter it has some slow pans of black & white still pics. The Sony blacks were ink black and looked very sharp. I put the Runco behind the Sony but close. Now on the slow pans the Runco was very smooth. The Sony was close but the JVC seemed jerky.
The motion of the horse races was interesting. The Runco was the clear winner here. The Sony was close but again the JVC was not as smooth and seemed grainy.
Overall I felt like the Sony was missing something. My everyday TV is a Fujitsu plasma that I love. The Sony did not have the punch that I like. The Runco had the pop that I always read about. So in the end I think that it may be worth it to give up 4k, 3D (which I dont care about) and a little bit of shadow detail which the Sony excelled at for better sharpness, color, motion, light output and a CMS. I really liked the skin tones on the Runco as well. It will be interesting to see how the 4k format will play out.
So I will work to find a demo of LS-10i to be sure. Any other thoughts will be appreciated.

Interesting, I saw the x70 at a dealer at the same time saw the runco vx8 (720p) and I had the same observations as you did, the x70 seemed grainy and jittery. Aside from the better blacks the runco killed it.

If you preferred the ls3 over the others than you will be thrilled with the ls10.

The other side of the coin here is the ls5 will be a little brighter and slightly better contrast due to the dc3 chip vs the dc4 on the ls5. You could save yourself a whole lot of cash and grab the ls5 and enjoy it for a while and maybe grab something new in a few years, just a thought.
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #30 of 38 Old 12-04-2012, 07:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 4,252
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 423 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post

Interesting, I saw the x70 at a dealer at the same time saw the runco vx8 (720p) and I had the same observations as you did, the x70 seemed grainy and jittery. Aside from the better blacks the runco killed it.
If you preferred the ls3 over the others than you will be thrilled with the ls10.
The other side of the coin here is the ls5 will be a little brighter and slightly better contrast due to the dc3 chip vs the dc4 on the ls5. You could save yourself a whole lot of cash and grab the ls5 and enjoy it for a while and maybe grab something new in a few years, just a thought.

It's actually .95" DC2 on the LS-3 and the .95" DC3 on the LS-5. Unless Runco has very recently changed this. Either way, both are very impressive machines. I'm a Planar PD8150 (aka LS-5) owner.
Seegs108 is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony Vpl Hw50es 3d Projector , Infocus

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off