Still no Native Anamorphic Projectors? (relatively affordable) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-28-2012, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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So are there still no "affordable" native 2.35 anamorphic projectors in 2012? I know theres the lens memory method but that doesnt truly use the full PJ capabilites. I just find it a little dissapointing, even Vizio came out with an anamorphic TV to get rid of the black bars, you figure HT disributors would catch on.

I read a lot of threads and it appears native anamorphic is still not available without a bolt on solution. Am I missing something?
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-28-2012, 09:18 AM
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http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/avielo-optix-superwide-235-projector
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-28-2012, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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How about for under $5k? At least thats a bit more in the ballpark.
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post #4 of 22 Old 11-28-2012, 05:53 PM
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I don't know why you would prefer spending the extra $$$ for a native 2.35 anamorphic projector. You don't keep the projector for more then 5+ years. If I were you, I would invested in getting a high quality Anamorphic lens which you can keep for ever such as the DC-1 in my HT setup.
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post #5 of 22 Old 11-28-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-2001 View Post

I don't know why you would prefer spending the extra $$$ for a native 2.35 anamorphic projector. You don't keep the projector for more then 5+ years. If I were you, I would invested in getting a high quality Anamorphic lens which you can keep for ever such as the DC-1 in my HT setup.

I agree. More money up front, but should save you money in the long run.

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post #6 of 22 Old 11-28-2012, 10:45 PM
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The market is too small for an inexpensive 2.35 chip projector. DPI has a 2.35 DLP machine but it is in the neighborhood of $25K. Thjere are definite advantages of a chip in the 2.35 or so aspect ratio over an anamorphic such has not having to scale and use a second lens with pincushioning and some loss of contrast but the anamorphic using even an expensive ISCO is the way to goif you need the light from the full panel.

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post #7 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 07:56 AM
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That DC-1 is rather expensive. What are the best /good/average lens these days? Perhaps I should start another thread.

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post #8 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

That DC-1 is rather expensive. What are the best /good/average lens these days? Perhaps I should start another thread.

You can also take a look at the Prismasonic HD6000. It is a cylindrical lens design like the Isco, which allows the lens to be focused, and also allows for greater placement flexibility. There is a thread on this lens over in the 2.35 constant height forum. If funds are limited, you can also pick up a B stock Panamorph 480 for a pretty good price.
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post #9 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 11:29 AM
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Let's put it this way, like others have said, it's best to buy a lens separate from the projector itself. You'll get the most use out of the lens this way. Regarding the different lens options and price points. As I'm sure you know, not all lenses are made the same. If I was in the market to buy an anamorphic lens I wouldn't skimp out on the quality of the glass, especially with the amount even the cheap ones cost. Put the extra grand into the lens because it will pay off tremendously in the end with the picture you get on the screen. What I've been doing is keeping an eye on ebay. ISCO III lenses have been selling quite frequently on ebay as of late around $2500. That is a fantastic deal for one of the best anamorphic lenses you can buy for a 1080p machine. I don't know how much you're willing to spend but it $2500 is more than what you're willing to spend I would recommend you skip out on a seperate lens and buy a projector with a lens memory function that zooms when you play 2.35:1 material. The experience will be better this way compared to a cheap add on lens.

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post #10 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Let's put it this way, like others have said, it's best to buy a lens separate from the projector itself. You'll get the most use out of the lens this way. Regarding the different lens options and price points. As I'm sure you know, not all lenses are made the same. If I was in the market to buy an anamorphic lens I wouldn't skimp out on the quality of the glass, especially with the amount even the cheap ones cost. Put the extra grand into the lens because it will pay off tremendously in the end with the picture you get on the screen. What I've been doing is keeping an eye on ebay. ISCO III lenses have been selling quite frequently on ebay as of late around $2500. That is a fantastic deal for one of the best anamorphic lenses you can buy for a 1080p machine. I don't know how much you're willing to spend but it $2500 is more than what you're willing to spend I would recommend you skip out on a seperate lens and buy a projector with a lens memory function that zooms when you play 2.35:1 material. The experience will be better this way compared to a cheap add on lens.
I spent $3500 on my first panamorph lens, but it ended up staying with my previous home. With more lenses on the market, I though the competition would have driven prices down a bit, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

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post #11 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 03:54 PM
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An integrated 2.35 anamorphic prism could be placed between the chip and the primary optics. That would actually make for a much smaller bit of glass. However I suspect that if anyone made such a projector it'd then a 2.35:1 panel is probably cheaper to make and the right solution.
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post #12 of 22 Old 11-29-2012, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

That DC-1 is rather expensive. What are the best /good/average lens these days? Perhaps I should start another thread.

Yeah, the DC-1 A-lens is rather expensive. However, I got it brand new when it was on sale (with a 33% of the discount price) for the fixed model since I wanted it to be permanently mounted. I know it sounds silly but I have it paired with the W7000 projector (I am anxiously waiting for the 4K contents to mature before getting a 4K/8K projector in the future). Trust me, this combo setup is a dream comes true for me. Here are some of the pics.









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post #13 of 22 Old 11-30-2012, 01:57 PM
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Nice. I like the idea of anamorphic setup but I think my room is too narrow to make it work.

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post #14 of 22 Old 12-11-2012, 12:50 PM
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Excellent photos. Go to the top photo and mentally delete the anamorphic adapter. Early projectors needed an adapter to convert 3/4 to 16/9. We are ready for adapter-free Scope projectors. Who comes to market first? Not Texas Instruments and their DLP? Is JVC the first to market a Scope projector? Maybe Epson or Panasonic? You can be sure people are working day and night to market the first consumer-valued Scope projectors.
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-12-2012, 04:19 AM
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Bluray is a 16:9 format, there is no HD anamorphic content so no need for 2.35:1 panels in the projector.
Lens memory and JVC's E-Shift have made A-lenses obsolete IMHO, no extra lens to degrade MTF, ANSI contrast and add chromatic aberrations plus geometric distortions.
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post #16 of 22 Old 12-12-2012, 02:28 PM
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Digital Projection has a native anamorphic DLP solution. It's the Digital Projection dVision Scope 1080p projector. Here's a cool video to see how they do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhnk3eiDj7c

These are pretty expensive. Though, Owen is right. The panels are native 1.78:1 for a reason. They match whatever content blu-ray is throwing at them. Whether it be scope or 1.85:1 material.

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post #17 of 22 Old 12-13-2012, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Bluray is a 16:9 format, there is no HD anamorphic content so no need for 2.35:1 panels in the projector.
Lens memory and JVC's E-Shift have made A-lenses obsolete IMHO, no extra lens to degrade MTF, ANSI contrast and add chromatic aberrations plus geometric distortions.
Whats the best way to get rid of bars then? Zoom? I have a jvc rs25u with great black levels if so.
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post #18 of 22 Old 12-13-2012, 07:50 PM
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Whats the best way to get rid of bars then? Zoom? I have a jvc rs25u with great black levels if so.

The best way is to have a 16:9 and a 2.35:1 screen - whether you zoom or use a lens ! smile.gif

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post #19 of 22 Old 12-17-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

Bluray is a 16:9 format, there is no HD anamorphic content so no need for 2.35:1 panels in the projector.
Lens memory and JVC's E-Shift have made A-lenses obsolete. IMHO, no extra lens to degrade MTF, ANSI contrast and add chromatic aberrations plus geometric distortions.

That is not entirely true. There are some pros & cons on both.

First let’s talk about lens memories:

The pros:
- The neat feature for all you have to do is zoom your image out far enough until the black bars fall above and below your screen's viewable surface area (aka into the black surrounds).
- Cheap way to get rid of those black bars above and below the screen.

The cons:
- You lose around 30-35% of light going from 1.78 to 2.35. This might mean you will have to run on high power more often, and will go through bulbs faster, but you can buy a lot of bulbs for the price of a lens.
- The light overspill on the open frame scenes. You really do want to treat your walls with something to absorb light above and below the frame to make sure the light spill will be absorbed/hidden.
- Sometimes the memory isn't perfect. It can wind up a few pixels up or down of the target, or slightly off center.

Now, for an anamorphic-lens:
The pros:
- An anamorphic lens attachment and a projector with an anamorphic picture mode you're not "wasting" any pixels on useless black bars for the lens is used to optically stretch the image in order to fill the 2:35.1 real estate and still preserved the brightness.
- For 16X9 movies, you can either have the projector displays in 1.78:1 format which will leave 2 black bars on the sides or you can just simply have the lens engaged to optically fill out the entire 2.35:1 screen (this is my current setup).

The cons:
- Bulky, expensive and have potential scaling artifacts and optical distortions (my has only minor of pin cushion at the lower corners but nothing to concern about and the PQ is clear and sharp as you can see in my pics above).
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post #20 of 22 Old 12-17-2012, 08:01 PM
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Another Pro for the the Anamorphic lens is that, depending on the lens being used, you actually get a brighter image. I will say that unless you're using a nicer lens there can be some perceived sharpness loss. Though, I did view a Runco LS-5 with a Panamorph 480 lens and I didn't "perceive" the image to look less sharp and many would consider that lens to be a cheaper option. I was sitting about 15' feet away from the screen so maybe that has something to do with it.

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post #21 of 22 Old 12-18-2012, 12:30 AM
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The gain in light with a lens isn't that big. When you zoom the image larger you increase the lens aperture and get more light out as a consequence. This offsets some or all of the a-lens light advantage depending on projector model and throw ratio. If i remember correctly the typical light gain with an a-lens is between 0-15% over zooming. Even 15% isn't very significant if you're not very starved for light to begin with.
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post #22 of 22 Old 12-18-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

The gain in light with a lens isn't that big. When you zoom the image larger you increase the lens aperture and get more light out as a consequence. This offsets some or all of the a-lens light advantage depending on projector model and throw ratio. If i remember correctly the typical light gain with an a-lens is between 0-15% over zooming. Even 15% isn't very significant if you're not very starved for light to begin with.

Yes, while that's true, you're also going to get more light because you're using the entire panel. So the black bars now become "light" which adds to the overall brightness.

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