Official JVC DLA-RS46 / DLA-X35 owners thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 06:16 AM
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Kelvin. I have also the same setup as you,but in my case in Standard profile i have a very good results in 25,50,75% saturation (CMS)
Also to correct the white balance at 100% greyscale,in Standard mode i will apply less correction than in Wide mode and in this way i will not lose to much light.
Also Lumagen will apply less corrections and for this reason better results?
Did you tried in Standard mode? and compared the results?
Thanks
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post #1532 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 06:56 AM
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That's odd that the Lumagen can't reign in the colours starting from Wide, mine works fine.

I tried various methodologies last year when I first calibrated my X35, but in my case using Wide is necessary as otherwise some colours are under saturated so can't be fully corrected by the Lumagen. So for my X35 it's not a question of making less adjustments, though it's not really a problem as it just means that only the Lumagen is making adjustments rather than the JVC (to reduce to Standard) and the Lumagen. Overall there probably isn't anything in it either way; just depends what works best for each individual display (and a very good example of why copying other people's settings is futile).

I'm not sure why there should be any difference in terms of light output using wide or standard once 100% is adjusted: I just use 7000K as a 'base' and just adjust the RGB gains as necessary (with the Lumagen CMS reset so it is 'neutral'). I chose to clip at 240 so I'm using Superwhite and my contrast is at +7 to achieve this. I get enough light output to hit 14fL with the aperture open to -13 for 16:9 non lens content.

Anyway, after nearly a year's use and recalibrating at 330 hours from the last at 100 hours I think in general it's held out well apart from the drop in gamma at 90% (not sure how noticeable this would actually be in practice). What I'm pleased about is that the new lamp/power supply of the Xx5 series seems to have lived up to it's promise.

The picture quality last night after the calibration still impresses even a year on and will only improve further once I make some changes to my room to reduce reflection back to the screen. cool.gif

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post #1533 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 06:58 AM
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Is JVC x35 sufficient for 17.2 feet throw distance for one 1.0 120 inches screen for 2D movie?
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post #1534 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightclub View Post

Is JVC x35 sufficient for 17.2 feet throw distance for one 1.0 120 inches screen for 2D movie?

In a good room you would be okay for 2D. Around 15 FL in low and 21 FL in high, new lamp.

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post #1535 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 07:26 AM
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Thanks,Kelvin
I will give it a try in WIDE mode.
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post #1536 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 08:00 AM
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I meant to add the full calibration report from last night which has the 125 point CMS calibration. I manually adjusted the greyscale and gamma before running the autocal just for the advanced colour gamut. About 3-4 years ago I'd have been up until the small hours trying to get even close to something like this (but only with a standard 8 point CMS) on my old HD350. This took me about half an hour doing the greyscale/gamma and then the autocal took about 40 minutes while I went and did something else. cool.gif Cinema125pointCMS05Dec2013.pdf 2443k .pdf file
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File Type: pdf Cinema125pointCMS05Dec2013.pdf (2.39 MB, 27 views)

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post #1537 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 08:38 AM
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It appears I need to be more specific with my question. On my Mitsubishi HC4000 I use its vertical position adjustment so that the bottom letterbox bar on a 2.35 movie effectively gets stacked with the upper letterbox bar. There is then no letterbox bar spillage off the bottom of my retractable scope screen where there are some reflective surfaces present. The black top drop on my screen is sufficient enough to capture the stacked letterbox bars. Is there any way to accomplish this with these JVC projectors without the addition of an outboard processer or anamorphic lens. confused.gif
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post #1538 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 09:07 AM
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If only your original question had said that!

No, you can't do that on the JVC.

You can move the image down optically, but you'll then get 'black light' spillage at the bottom. Mind you, the contrast ratio is so high that it's almost a non-issue.
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post #1539 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelup View Post

If only your original question had said that!

No, you can't do that on the JVC.

You can move the image down optically, but you'll then get 'black light' spillage at the bottom. Mind you, the contrast ratio is so high that it's almost a non-issue.

I don't understand why more manufacturers don't have this. Can't be that expensive since my Mits HC4000 does it. Looks like the Panasonic 8000 is the only other projector that offers this feature.mad.gif
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post #1540 of 2389 Old 12-06-2013, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

It appears I need to be more specific with my question. On my Mitsubishi HC4000 I use its vertical position adjustment so that the bottom letterbox bar on a 2.35 movie effectively gets stacked with the upper letterbox bar. There is then no letterbox bar spillage off the bottom of my retractable scope screen where there are some reflective surfaces present. The black top drop on my screen is sufficient enough to capture the stacked letterbox bars. Is there any way to accomplish this with these JVC projectors without the addition of an outboard processer or anamorphic lens. confused.gif

I get it now. No, the JVC cannot do what you want, however I don't think it's that important because the black levels are so good.

I have letterbox bars spill over the bottom of my screen on to the face of my plasma TV, which is highly reflective. I cannot see the bars at all. (JVC RS4810)
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post #1541 of 2389 Old 12-07-2013, 01:32 AM
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It costs absolutely nothing to add... Just software, so yes - slightly disappointing.

That said, I'm I'm exactly the same boat - my overspill lands slap bang on my centre speaker and is completely unobtrusive. I really wouldn't worry about it.
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post #1542 of 2389 Old 12-07-2013, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelup View Post

It costs absolutely nothing to add... Just software, so yes - slightly disappointing.

Writing the software has a cost. Documenting it has a cost. Explaining it to customers and installers has a cost. Confusing customers by giving them two ways to do the (nearly) same thing has a cost. Supporting users who call to complain that their picture is off center has a cost. Accepting returns from customers who misuse it and then assume it must be broken has a cost.

However relatively small these costs may be, they certainly add up to more than "absolutely nothing".
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post #1543 of 2389 Old 12-07-2013, 02:23 AM
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Every single feature that is on the unit cost something to implement. In the big scheme of things, this is a minor feature to implement and as the software platform is shared across dozens of models, the end cost would have been pennies per unit if even that much.

I don't agree with your analysis about user error - that's just nonsense and you could argue that point about every single feature on the projector. It certainly won't have been a factor in them deciding whether or not to implement his particular feature. I expect the feature simply was not on the radar otherwise they would have done it. They added masking but not shift, a slightly odd decision? The masking would have been just as much work as the shift, and I'd say that the masking is a far less useful feature. What does anyone ever use the masking settings for?

Personally, I do think it would have been a worthwhile capability as it avoids constant use of the mechanical lens shift for some applications, but it is by no means essential. Why subject some moving parts to wear when a few hundred lines of code could avoid it?

Just think - if they have to repair / replace just a couple of projectors during their lifetime due to wear and tear on the lens shift mechanism, that would have covered the cost of this work!

I accept that 'absolutely nothing' is not true...
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post #1544 of 2389 Old 12-07-2013, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

I don't understand why more manufacturers don't have this. Can't be that expensive since my Mits HC4000 does it. Looks like the Panasonic 8000 is the only other projector that offers this feature.mad.gif

my guess is because it's completely unnecessary...

I have an electric screen, and it's mounted lower than ideal due to room constraints, so when I watch scope movies I shift the image up and don't roll the screen down all the way. this gives me 'spillage' both above the screen on my blue wall, and below the screen onto my silver a/v rack and all my a/v gear. in a pitch black room, with credits rolling on screen, the 'spillage' is invisible. maybe with a totally blank screen and adequate time for my eyes to adjust I can see the spillage on the wall above the screen, but not on my a/v rack below.

basically what I'm saying, is that in use, the black bars are not visible on any surface that's reasonably likely to be found in a 'theatre', so there's no need to avoid those black bars spilling off the top or bottom of the screen.

the panny may 'need' this more because it doesn't have the deep black levels to make the letterbox bars actually disappear in use

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post #1545 of 2389 Old 12-07-2013, 09:05 AM
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It would be useful because digitally shifting a scope image would not cause any of the lens/image issues that using physical lens shift does; in addition, it would be faster (instant) and 100% accurate as to placement every time, and as Steve said, would cause no mechanical wear on parts.
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post #1546 of 2389 Old 12-07-2013, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

It would be useful because digitally shifting a scope image would not cause any of the lens/image issues that using physical lens shift does; in addition, it would be faster (instant) and 100% accurate as to placement every time, and as Steve said, would cause no mechanical wear on parts.
Electronic scope is way smarter. It is literally the one thing Panasonic does better. (along with masking being tied to lens memory).
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post #1547 of 2389 Old 12-07-2013, 05:19 PM
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For those looking for this feature, the use of an HTPC could be useful. Many media players, such as MPC-HC for instance, support this feature.

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post #1548 of 2389 Old 12-08-2013, 02:35 AM
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Likewise a Lumagen Mini3D does this as well, plus it provides a (much better than JVC) CMS that is lacking on the X35. Much less hassle that configuring a HTPC too. smile.gif

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post #1549 of 2389 Old 12-08-2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Likewise a Lumagen Mini3D does this as well, plus it provides a (much better than JVC) CMS that is lacking on the X35. Much less hassle that configuring a HTPC too. smile.gif

Except both of these solutions cost way more plus further complicate system connections. For a minimal cost this could easily be incorporated into these projectors. (My budget model Mitsubishi HC4000 does this for heavens sake!)eek.gif
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post #1550 of 2389 Old 12-08-2013, 10:07 AM
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I didn't say it was cheap, but then it does so many other things better than even the upmarket models (such as 125 point CMS, far better upscaling, picture positioning, etc) that I felt it was well worth it. In the UK the cost of the Mini3D on top of the X35 is still less than an X55 and IMHO gives a better overall result, though in my case I already had it and used it with my previous HD350.

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post #1551 of 2389 Old 12-08-2013, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

It would be useful because digitally shifting a scope image would not cause any of the lens/image issues that using physical lens shift does; in addition, it would be faster (instant) and 100% accurate as to placement every time, and as Steve said, would cause no mechanical wear on parts.

I realized that JVC does have an electronic picture shift, in the input menu. However it is limited to shifting by a max of 4 pixels up or 37 pixels down. Seems a very strange and arbitrary limitation to me.
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post #1552 of 2389 Old 12-08-2013, 10:09 PM
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While you may consider it arbitrary, and while I believe there are valid interaction considerations with electronic panel grid convergence circuits and adjustments, it is not capricious.

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post #1553 of 2389 Old 12-08-2013, 10:30 PM
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While you may consider it arbitrary, and while I believe there are valid interaction considerations with electronic panel grid convergence circuits and adjustments, it is not capricious.

An electronic image shift should have no effect or interaction with the convergence adjustments. Proof: the Lumagen can do it with any display device. If it does interact on the JVC, then they implemented it poorly.
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post #1554 of 2389 Old 12-09-2013, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
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I realized that JVC does have an electronic picture shift, in the input menu. However it is limited to shifting by a max of 4 pixels up or 37 pixels down. Seems a very strange and arbitrary limitation to me.

If it's limited to 4/37 pixels, then it can't possibly be the same thing as the Mitsubishi & Panasonic projectors. I move my Mits right at 7.5 ", and there's still more available adjustment left.
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post #1555 of 2389 Old 12-09-2013, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post

If it's limited to 4/37 pixels, then it can't possibly be the same thing as the Mitsubishi & Panasonic projectors. I move my Mits right at 7.5 ", and there's still more available adjustment left.

It would be exactly what you're asking for if it could move the image down by 131 pixels instead of only 37. (131 is the height of the lower black bar of a 2.35 movie. (1080 - 1080 * 1.78 / 2.35) / 2 = 131 approx.)
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post #1556 of 2389 Old 12-09-2013, 06:36 AM
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I believe the JVC shift is per RGB color and does not slide the entire image around.

Full image shift as in the HC4000 and many many other projectors does indeed seem trivial. Instead of displaying the source image in this portion of the 1920 x 1080 frame, display it in this portion. Easy. No conversions or scaling or any true "processing" happening at all.
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post #1557 of 2389 Old 12-09-2013, 07:26 AM
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Hey Dragon Rebond smile.gif About my noise measurement, I totally agree the X35 is very quiet in low mode lampe mode but with my sound meter and in my environnement, I'm not able to get a measure under 30DB so 31DB is a very good value.

I am very worried about high power bulb noise now...shall i leave x35 for this reason?
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post #1558 of 2389 Old 12-09-2013, 08:39 AM
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I am very worried about high power bulb noise now...shall i leave x35 for this reason?

depends if you really need high bulb mode, and if you can get an equally good projector that's quieter.

i'm not thrilled with high bulb, it is kind of loud. with an action flick, you'd never notice it, something really quiet though could be annoying.

but the thing is, i don't notice a HUGE increase in light output. i'd say the low bulb, iris fully open is about equal to high bulb with the iris at -5. this makes me feel like anything that was too dim on low mode is going to be only just barely bright enough in high mode

i would also look into higher gain screen materials before jumping ship on the jvc for anything 'lesser quality'. i'm not sure what you're alternatives are, so if there's a brighter model as good, that wouldn't apply.

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post #1559 of 2389 Old 12-09-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I believe the JVC shift is per RGB color and does not slide the entire image around.

Full image shift as in the HC4000 and many many other projectors does indeed seem trivial. Instead of displaying the source image in this portion of the 1920 x 1080 frame, display it in this portion. Easy. No conversions or scaling or any true "processing" happening at all.

No, it moves the entire image, but again only by a limited amount.
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post #1560 of 2389 Old 12-10-2013, 02:48 PM
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I picked up the RS46 over the weekend to replace my aging Infocus X10. I'm very pleased with it. I've been reading this thread off and on and was a bit concerned about how the projector would handle my 130" 1.0 gain scope screen. After getting it setup I am currently running scope with the iris at -10 and the picture is plenty bright to my eyes in low lamp mode (I'm using lens memory). I may stop it down further to see what it does to the black floor. Granted this is a brand new bulb, but I feel pretty confident that with the iris stopped down this much I should be able to open it up as the bulb ages and still be very happy. I know brightness is subjective, but my wife and I were very pleased with the picture we're getting.

In case anyone is curious the room is not completely light controlled. The walls are a dark red in a matte finish. The ceiling is a very dark blue, also matte finish. The scope bars disappear nicely on the walls. Viewing is primarily at night. I am planning on some blackout blinds so afternoon viewing on the JVC will be that much better. The X10's black floor was high enough that small amount of ambient light getting through the current blinds wasn't much of a bother.

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