Official JVC DLA-RS46 / DLA-X35 owners thread - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 2367 Old 08-04-2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post
The ideal approach is to make masking panels from black velvet mounted to some form of stiff, but lightweight board. I used a large sheet of Elmer's board in black if I remember correctly. If you're careful, you can cut small holes in the board before covering, and install some tiny rare earth magnets into the panels. Then attach (ideally recess) the corresponding magnets to the frame of your screen.

I'm surprised that so many people don't have masking on a 2.35:1 screen. Even movie theatres have curtains that handle masking. I'm perhaps a-typical, but masking was part of the consideration when I was designing my home made 2.35:1 screen, not an after thought.
My screen frame is aluminum. I wish it had built in magnets. I already have the velvet.
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post #2342 of 2367 Old 08-05-2014, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post
The ideal approach is to make masking panels from black velvet mounted to some form of stiff, but lightweight board. I used a large sheet of Elmer's board in black if I remember correctly. If you're careful, you can cut small holes in the board before covering, and install some tiny rare earth magnets into the panels. Then attach (ideally recess) the corresponding magnets to the frame of your screen.

I'm surprised that so many people don't have masking on a 2.35:1 screen. Even movie theatres have curtains that handle masking. I'm perhaps a-typical, but masking was part of the consideration when I was designing my home made 2.35:1 screen, not an after thought.
If using an AT screen, then make a frame and cover with black AT fabric. In a light controlled room, it completely hides the un-used portion of the screen.

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post #2343 of 2367 Old 08-05-2014, 07:01 PM
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Seems easy enough to make the panels but how do you attach the panels if not using magnets?
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post #2344 of 2367 Old 08-06-2014, 06:00 AM
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Seems easy enough to make the panels but how do you attach the panels if not using magnets?
You can use velcro tape squares if you have a frame that can accommodate it. I have velvet covering pink foam board which I attach to the bottom of a 16:9 for 2.35 films and use lens shift and zoom to move the image up. Makes a huge difference for complete immersion.
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post #2345 of 2367 Old 08-06-2014, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ajvandenb View Post
You can use velcro tape squares if you have a frame that can accommodate it. I have velvet covering pink foam board which I attach to the bottom of a 16:9 for 2.35 films and use lens shift and zoom to move the image up. Makes a huge difference for complete immersion.

You could also use Gatorboard from a craft store covered in Protostar material, with Velcro.

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post #2346 of 2367 Old 08-19-2014, 10:19 PM
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So shortly I'll be getting away from high power to go acoustically transparent. I've always used the cheapy Samsung 3D glasses for $20 a pair. Will I need to get the $180 JVC glasses now, or is there a cheaper alternative?

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post #2347 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post
So shortly I'll be getting away from high power to go acoustically transparent. I've always used the cheapy Samsung 3D glasses for $20 a pair. Will I need to get the $180 JVC glasses now, or is there a cheaper alternative?
I've wondered the answer to this for a long time. I use the cheap Samsung's too. I think I'd benefit from a larger, lighter lens and side light blocking.
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post #2348 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I've wondered the answer to this for a long time. I use the cheap Samsung's too. I think I'd benefit from a larger, lighter lens and side light blocking.
I've tried the Samsungs and the Panasonics; personally, I prefer the Panasonics (despite the ridiculous price) because of the side light blocking.

One thing I have noticed, is that the flickering effect is dramatically reduced if areas aside from the image on screen are visible - since they are not flickering at all!

The effect is reduced if you block the sides of the glasses, just as Dreamliner said, but it is also reduced if you have no ambient light and black walls and ceiling. I think if you are viewing in a total bat cave, the flicker would be almost noticeable.

Personally... I love 3D on my RS46, and I suspect that my viewing environment has a lot to do with that. I've never watched a sequential 3D TV set in a typical lights on living room environment, but I'd have thought it would be a nauseating experience.

Quite why Samsung designed their glasses the way they did is beyond me. I guess it's just a classic case of form over function.
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post #2349 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil View Post
I've tried the Samsungs and the Panasonics; personally, I prefer the Panasonics (despite the ridiculous price) because of the side light blocking.

One thing I have noticed, is that the flickering effect is dramatically reduced if areas aside from the image on screen are visible - since they are not flickering at all!

The effect is reduced if you block the sides of the glasses, just as Dreamliner said, but it is also reduced if you have no ambient light and black walls and ceiling. I think if you are viewing in a total bat cave, the flicker would be almost noticeable.
My room is total black but light from the screen still fills the room. Quality increases when I block the light on the sides. What Panasonic glasses work?
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Quite why Samsung designed their glasses the way they did is beyond me. I guess it's just a classic case of form over function.
I thought about making side blockers that would slip over the frame. But I've read the JVC glasses are a bit different in their lens tech, so I think it might be a good idea to buy at least one pair.

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post #2350 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 05:16 PM
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I prefer the jvc glasses for the first 20-30mins, then they become too uncomfortable.


I've only watch 2movies in 3D all the way through, both times I switched to the samsungs that came with my f8500. they definitely lack in lens size and blocking your peripherals, but I watch in complete darkness anyway, so that's largely negated. I wouldn't want to use the Samsung glasses with my f8500 with the lights on though. ambient light viewing with them would probably drive me nuts.


never worn a pair of active glasses I didn't generally dislike though. you'd think for 20-200bux they could afford 30cents for some nose pads at least... I mean if I have comfortable sunglasses that cost 5bux, then it should cost more than an extra 5bux MAX to make 3d glasses comfortable too.

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post #2351 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 08:05 PM
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So... no alternatives to JVC glasses when not using a high power screen?

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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post #2352 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
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So... no alternatives to JVC glasses when not using a high power screen?
my screens are not high power...?


one is 1.0gain matte white, the other is .8gain grey. neither is AT though

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post #2353 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 09:44 PM
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I don't know what screen you use. Last I'd heard you need the jvc glasses if you have just about any screen besides high power.
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post #2354 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
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So... no alternatives to JVC glasses when not using a high power screen?
It's not the gain of the screen that matters, it's how much polarization it retains. Unfortunately this is not a number you'll typically find published with the screen specs.

If the screen retains most of the polarization, you need the JVC glasses. (Otherwise it will be very dim.) If it retains none of the polarization, any compatible glasses will work just as well.

I seem to recall someone had a line on some Xpand glasses with the appropriate polarization. (Xpand manufactures the JVC glasses, but most of the Xpand-branded glasses have the opposite polarization.)
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post #2355 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 10:19 PM
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Right polarization, couldn't remember the term. According to this thread the Seymour at XD material retains 0 polarization so I should be good!

Discussion - Screens for 3D Projection

It does not mention the uf material unfortunately. Trying to decide between the XD and UF materials. Polarization could tip the scale though.

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post #2356 of 2367 Old 08-20-2014, 11:53 PM
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I'll be happy with 4500 Lumens 4K 3D with passive glasses.

Should be enough juice to blow through any glasses dimming while retaining correct color etc.

3D looks great to me in IMAX, at home...its okay. Best is still Avatar. Though some of they day scenes in Amazing Spider-Man 2 look pretty great in 3D! (Fight scenes with Electro look great too).
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post #2357 of 2367 Old 08-21-2014, 06:16 PM
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I don't know what screen you use. Last I'd heard you need the jvc glasses if you have just about any screen besides high power.
neither is anything special. one came bundled with my first projector(I've actually painted over the brand name and can't remember it, something with 'screen' in it), and the second is a uber cheap screen made by 'visionhd'.


I'd heard about the issue with the jvc polarization, but thought it was rare that a screen caused an issue with it, not the norm. all I know, is I didn't think I needed to pay attention to it at the time I read it, so I could be wrong.

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post #2358 of 2367 Old 08-30-2014, 05:22 AM
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Anyone know how to remove/delete Lens Memories? There seems to be no way to do it as far as I can see within the menus. Thanks.
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post #2359 of 2367 Old 08-31-2014, 08:38 AM
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Sony glasses

Hi: got the 3d emitter for my X35 for a birthday present. I am using a PS3 for my player. Also got some glasses as a gift to go with the emitter. Can't seem to get the glasses working after charging them up. any hints? These are the glasses:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Sony-CEC...3D151363899234


thanks in advance.. matt

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post #2360 of 2367 Old 09-01-2014, 03:07 PM
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Also got some glasses as a gift to go with the emitter. Can't seem to get the glasses working after charging them up. any hints?
The Sony glasses that you got on ebay are not compatible with our projectors.

You need glasses that conform to the official 'Full HD 3D' standard, which uses of form of Bluetooth for the communication between the display device and the glasses.

As far as I know, there are glasses from Samsung, Panasonic and JVC which conform to this standard. There are probably others, but these are the most popular.

Your Sony glasses were designed to work with Sony's official PlayStation 3D Display, and as far as I know, will only work with that display. This display is end of life, and that's probably why the glasses were so cheap.

The Samsung glasses can be found for as little as $15 at some points in the year, so they're your best bet if you're on a budget.
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post #2361 of 2367 Old 09-02-2014, 03:45 PM
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got around to calibrating my x35 finally.


I'd heard that the gamma on these was the most important thing to fix, but I didn't realize how terrible all the factory defaults actually were! if anyone is interested, I've attached a graph of what I got for the defaults, off my 1.0 gain white screen:
Normal: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...ad9b86cc1cd287
A: https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...49511714_n.jpg
B: https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...0d&oe=546DA95D
C: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...8882176cbd546b
2.2: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...b9e5a96bea9114
2.4: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...52efc01ad987f7
2.6: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...9b0e771baf6834


I have to say, after getting the greyscale and gamma in check, it's a noticeable improvement for sure! color is still off, but it's reasonably close I guess. the one issue I had was that I couldn't turn down blue enough at 90%. I either had a spike in my gamma, or a huge spike in blue. I opted to let the gamma go, but it was definitely frustrating that I could not fix both.


I have the lens at -6, and at 0, I was able to get both a flat gamma and greyscale. for some reason, closing the iris affects the greyscale a lot.
anyway, here's my results!







and it's amazing how much my room is still ruining ansi contrast! I wasn't expecting much, but figured 1000:1 range maybe. i definitely wasn't expecting 100's:1 haha. also look at that on/off contrast! haha. a handful of times it wasn't able to read, when it did, it was usually around .005cd/m2, this was the only time it read something lower, so i had to save a pic of it



also, I must be a weirdo, I assumed something was wrong with the reading(any maybe it is still) but I tried everything and never got higher than about 14ftl off my 120" screen with the aperture fully opened. thing is, I HATE the way it looks like that. it lights up my room so much, and I've been watching everything for about a year with the aperture fully closed. at which point it reads about 4.5ftl. I dunno. I'm setting it up right now with the lens at -10, which seems to get me about 10ftl, but that's as bright as I can stand it really. odd since I just did my f8500 the other day at about 37ftl.
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post #2362 of 2367 Old 09-02-2014, 08:27 PM
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Thanks for sharing. Always cool to see the details of such a process and the measured results.

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the one issue I had was that I could turn down blue enough at 90%. I either had a spike in my gamma, or a huge spike in blue. I opted to let the gamma go, but it was definitely frustrating that I could fix both.
Do you mean you COULDN'T turn down blue enough and COULDN'T fix both?


Quote:
also, I must be a weirdo, I assumed something was wrong with the reading(any maybe it is still) but I tried everything and never got higher than about 14ftl off my 120" screen with the aperture fully opened. thing is, I HATE the way it looks like that. it lights up my room so much, and I've been watching everything for about a year with the aperture fully closed. at which point it reads about 4.5ftl. I dunno. I'm setting it up right now with the lens at -10, which seems to get me about 10ftl, but that's as bright as I can stand it really. odd since I just did my f8500 the other day at about 37ftl.
That is weird, though admittedly, the reason for a bat cave is because at reference light levels there will be spill into the room and one wants the room to "soak it up"

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post #2363 of 2367 Old 09-02-2014, 09:25 PM
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Thanks for sharing. Always cool to see the details of such a process and the measured results.



Do you mean you COULDN'T turn down blue enough and COULDN'T fix both?
with the current settings(I'm not sure yet if changing the starting gamma, or color temp may help) i was at my limit for how much i could decrease the blue level. the only way i could make the blue push go away, was by turning up the green and red.


think of the colors being adjustable on a -10 to +10 scale. the blue was already at -10 and still had a HUGE blue push. the only way to fix it was to crank up the green and red to like +8.


after doing this, i tried moving the 'white' setting back down, but it would only adjust the red and green back down. blue was literally at it's minimum value.
i may try doing it again sometime, but starting with 6000k color temp. the only thing is, values 0-70% were all very LOW in blue, so may run into an issue with too much red push in the lower levels


i had some issues because my contrast was too low(which apparently shifts the calibration points) but these were my first results, with the lens aperture fully open. everything else was the same including color temp.




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That is weird, though admittedly, the reason for a bat cave is because at reference light levels there will be spill into the room and one wants the room to "soak it up"
my room is dark by anybody's standards other than home theater enthusiasts dark blue carpet, black leather seats, black ceiling, black walls with dark blue two tone, all flat paint. guess velvet needs to be on the to-do list. but the other issue, and the reason i first closed up the iris is that my screen looks terrible during bright scenes. i never had the issue with my old Epson projector, but the jvc's been much brighter and suddenly my screen was covered in 'sparklies' and texture. closing the iris hid a lot of it. after doing it for that reason though, i found i really liked the darker blacks and never really felt it looked 'dim' to me. i mean, if the jvc was only getting 5ftl off the screen, there's no way my old Epson was more than 3ftl! haha.


but I'm still not totally convinced I'm getting the 'right' light levels measured. the projector central calculator predicts a brightness of 23ftl, but the highest i could muster was around 14. i didn't check in high lamp though, but i honestly find it a subtle change, there's way more change from the iris than the lamp. i should check, but if I'm getting 14 with low lamp, I'm betting it's like 17-18 in high lamp.


when i type all that out, i guess it starts to make sense. but I'm still shocked, because i hear most ppl talk about 10-12ftl like it's pathetically dim, yet I've been sitting there watching about 5ftl, and thinking it's a HUGE step up from the local theater... I've had a dozen or so others watch movies, and all seemed impressed too. i even watched a 3D one time only opening up the iris slightly(so still under 10ftl)


for me personally, i think the most interesting thing is finding out what aspects actually matter the most to me. before doing any of this, i figured blacks, on/off contrast, ansi contrast, resolution, color was what i cared about(in order). I've had a f8500 and the x35 for a little over a year now, and i have no doubt that i preferred the image i saw on the x35 to the f8500. keeping in mind the things each was doing well, and not well, it would appear what ACTUALLY matters to me is: black level(mll), and then in the distant 2nd to last place, on/off contrast, resolution, color, gamma, and ansi contrast. definitely not what you'll read anywhere that I've found.


even though i decided i preferred the picture the projector scored worse in everything except mll
x35
mll: .005(although this wasn't measured consistently, a lot of times it was too low to read)
on/off: ~7000:1
ANSI: ~100:1
Samsung f8500
mll: .011
on/off: ~11000:1
ANSI: ~5500:1
the f8500 tracked color better ootb too, AND has a cms to perfect it. it'll be interesting to see which one i prefer AFTER calibrating. the x35 looks better now, but the f8500 looks like a new tv.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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Last edited by fierce_gt; 09-02-2014 at 09:30 PM.
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post #2364 of 2367 Old 09-05-2014, 08:25 PM
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fiddled some more today. basically changing the color temp from 6500K to 7500K makes ALL the difference. not only was it possible to get a ruler flat gamma, I was even able to dial in a BT1886 gamma curve, while maintaining accurate greyscale and near perfect 6500K color. I was also able to do this while closing the iris down to -10, which GREATLY improved the on/off contrast, as well as my overall enjoyment!


the only thing still off is green, it's directly related to the brightness, and the only way I can get the full gamut is with a wide open iris and high lamp . which also yields about 21ftl, so apparently I am totally fine with about 5ftl... go figure








Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One

Last edited by fierce_gt; 09-06-2014 at 12:31 AM.
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post #2365 of 2367 Old 09-06-2014, 04:46 PM
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I would search this thread but with this new lame format I don't know how anymore. ANYWHO, my question is with PQ. I have a Sony 5100 BD and a Pioneer 1222k AVR. For bluray movies should I have Video Conversion on the AVR set to off?

Thanks.

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post #2366 of 2367 Old 09-06-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mijotter View Post
I would search this thread but with this new lame format I don't know how anymore. ANYWHO, my question is with PQ. I have a Sony 5100 BD and a Pioneer 1222k AVR. For bluray movies should I have Video Conversion on the AVR set to off?

Thanks.
I would say yes... the Sony 5100 is a very good player, despite the low price point, so I wouldn't want to do any image processing on it's output.

I do have a Darbee in series if I'm honest, but I (usually) like the effect on any source, so I'd leave that on. I can't imagine that the Pioneer AVR can do much to improve the image quality on any source, and I leave all of the video conversion options on my Yamaha AVR regardless of input.
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post #2367 of 2367 Old 09-06-2014, 10:18 PM
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double check what your pioneer avr actually does. on mine, it only works on analog inputs, it will just pass hdmi through untouched no matter what. this is true for upconversion, and any processing. I have brightness/contrast, etc basic controls that work on component video inputs. but I've got a different model.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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