NEW JVC DLA RS66/X95 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 138 Old 12-08-2012, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone yet have the new JVC Rs66 or X95?
I'm interested in your thoughts and what improvements can you see over last years models.
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post #2 of 138 Old 12-09-2012, 11:01 AM
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AVS hasn't received any RS66's yet according to MG. They've received all the other models, so hopefully the '66's will show up soon. I should be able to post a few impressions on the differences between my RS60 and the '66 after it arrives.
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post #3 of 138 Old 12-11-2012, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Mine arrives tomorrow so i will report back.
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post #4 of 138 Old 12-12-2012, 04:39 AM
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Hopefully they will arrive soon smile.gif Rapallo please do post and congrats!
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post #5 of 138 Old 12-13-2012, 05:35 PM
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Just received tracking info from AVS for my '66. smile.gif

Have you received yours yet, RapalloAV? First impressions?
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post #6 of 138 Old 12-13-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

Just received tracking info from AVS for my '66. smile.gif
Have you received yours yet, RapalloAV? First impressions?

Yes I have received it and set it up last night but I did run out of time to report back. I will however after a play tonight.
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post #7 of 138 Old 12-15-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Yes I have received it and set it up last night but I did run out of time to report back. I will however after a play tonight.


So what do you all think.... Wont have mine until Tue. night and won't be able to set it up until Wednesday night.
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post #8 of 138 Old 12-15-2012, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by clrv View Post

So what do you all think.... Wont have mine until Tue. night and won't be able to set it up until Wednesday night.

I can sum it up in one word, the X95 is BREATHTAKING!

I replaced the RS65 (X90) with the X95 and I can say I'm more than happy with the upgrade. Better blacks and e-shift has been remarkably improved. Even 3D is now watchable without all the crosstalk. I need much more playing yet.....
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post #9 of 138 Old 12-17-2012, 03:34 PM
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Thanks for the info. Less crosstalk on the 3D is a good start. Any improvements on the brightness?
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post #10 of 138 Old 12-17-2012, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tydilee View Post

Thanks for the info. Less crosstalk on the 3D is a good start. Any improvements on the brightness?

I have a 150" acoustic scope screen and I have plenty of brightness with the iris set at -6. On my RS65 my lamp hours were at 500 and the picture was dull.
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post #11 of 138 Old 12-19-2012, 07:42 PM
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I have spent 2 nights with my X95 (10 hours on the lamp) so I am now ready to give my initial impressions compared to my previous X9

Calibration

I did a very quick measurement of the THX setting out of the box and was not overly impressed. Red and blue were under saturated and the gamma was uneven. This is not an issue for me as I have a Lumagen and calibrate myself.

I used the following settings on the projector as a starting point:

Stage
Colour temp 7500K
Gamma 2.4 ( I use BT1866 on the Radiance)

I then did a 3D cube calibration using Calman and got a great result with average DE less than 1 on grey scale and 1.5 on colour checker

Lamp and brightness

This new lamp (and possibly the filters) is very different to the old one and a great improvement in all respects. The first thing I noticed was that the most deficient colour was green rather than red.

Compared to the X9, this projector is a light cannon! I have measured 1017 lumens on high lamp and 676 on low lamp (fully calibrated). This compares to 790 on high lamp on the X9. which is a 28% increase.

The extra brightness does however come a a cost. The fan noise on high lamp is louder than the X9. My guess would be about 5 dB more. At the moment it is not a problem as there is plenty of light for me on low lamp. It remains to be seen how quickly the the brightness falls off.

The other improvement is that this projector does not seem to need warming up before it becomes accurate. On initial turn on, the X9 was very red and it needed to be on for at least a half an hour before it became close to its calibrated setting. The X95 looks fine on start up and measurements taken after 5 minutes were very close to the calibration.

Convergence focus and brightness linearity.

The convergence was good on quick inspection. I believe it is within half a pixel and I did not bother with the pixel adjust.

When I initially looked at the focus I was very disappointed and wondered if my unit was defective. Later on I found this was cased by the MPC being set to the default on high resolution which was way too aggressive. I have not spent enough time with this but at this stage I think the focus is on par with my X9 or slightly worse

The brightness linearity looks good and measures a 15% drop off on some of the corners. This similar to the X9 and can possibly be improved by tweaking the projector position

3D

I do not like 3D so I have not even unpacked the glasses

E-shift 2

I had not seen E-shift 1 so I cannot make any comparisons. I am still feeling my way around this one and need a lot more time to find the right setting. The first night of viewing was on high resolution with controls on 50. My wife's comment was it looks too real!
I even removed my Darbee from the chain as it was not helping. On tests patterns I have noticed quite a few artifacts and would appreciate it if anyone with experience of E-shift settings will give me some pointers

Picture

The picture is stunning but that may have been influenced by the novelty of the high MPC setting. I noticed a lower black floor but that may have been due to the Iris setting. With my X9 I was always struggling for brightness so my iris was set to 0.

I was only expecting a small improvement compared to my fully calibrated X9 but my expectations were certainly exceeded
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post #12 of 138 Old 12-19-2012, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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HTnut

I replaced my X90 with the X95 and I too see an improvement. I have not calibrated it yet with i1 display pro and my Lumagen XS yet so cant comment in that area. It is brighter than the X90 and the e-shift is far better. I too notice some noise if the e-shift is set to the default settings.

Im running on FILM set to the order of 40,30 and 20. I have my Darbee set to HD45, my screen is 150" scope.
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post #13 of 138 Old 12-22-2012, 12:42 PM
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I received my RS66 last Tuesday. This replaced an RS60. The signal path is:

Oppo BDP-95 -> Radiance XE-3D -> Darblet -> RS66 -> Da-Lite HP 2.4

Setting up the '66 was similar to the RS60, so no problem. The main difference was having to set the 4K Profile mode to Off to make it easier to adjust the focus. Focus is excellent across the screen. Convergence was OK out of the box with ~1/2 pixel red color fringing across the top half of the screen being the worst offender. The Pixel Adjust (Fine) menu is a very useful upgrade over the RS60. Using that option I was able to dial in essentially perfect convergence across the screen, including edges & corners. Very sweet!

After the basic installation was complete I set the 4K Profile to Film (12/0/0). The MPC Film mode does a nice job of eliminating the pixel structure when viewed close up. The Enhance option does a nice job of enhancing fine detaill as long as it's not set too high. A conservative setting of Enhance:12 complemented the Darblet's sharpening without presenting an artificial appearance. I didn't see any benefit from the Dynamic Contrast option so I set that to "0". The description of the Smoothing option in the Owner's Manual is "Enhances the blurriness of the image for a softer effect". "Enhanced blurriness" is not a look I'm after so I set that to "0" as well. With the MPC Enhance option lifting detail, I reduced the Darblet's enhancement a few clicks to HD 38 from my prior set-and-forget setting of HD 42.

My current non-default video settings are:
Setting: 2D 3D
Picture Mode: User 1 User 2
Color Profile: Standard Standard
Color Temp: 7000 6500
Gamma: Normal Normal
Lens Aperture: -13 0
Lamp Power: Low High
NR (RNR): 0 0
Crosstalk Cancel: N/A +8

I left the CMS off and the other video settings at "0" in the pj. I made very minor tweaks to Brightness & Contrast for 2D in the Radiance. I also did a 2 point gray scale tweak in the Radiance for 3D, reducing green & lifting red just a hair. All settings were done by eye with test patterns & demo clips. The '66 & Radiance will get a pro calibration next month, so I'm not too concerned if my eyeball settings are a wee bit off...

I've had a chance to watch several movies and numerous clips from reference quality 2D and 3D Blu-rays over the last week. The picture quality is beautiful! 2D is a modest improvement over the RS60, with detail being a bit better, black levels about the same or slightly improved, and brightness a significant step up. Improvements to 3D are more obvious. I rarely see ghosting on the '66 even when I'm looking for it. When I do see it, it's significantly less intrusive. I'd put the crosstalk reduction at about 90%. Flicker can be seen in 3D when viewing very bright scenes. It was noticeable, for example, in a scene from Resident Evil: Retribution 3D when Alice was in a bright hallway with white backlit walls, floors, and ceiling. Other than that I rarely noticed it. Crosstalk and flicker can both be reduced or eliminated by lowing the brightness. With my 3D settings of high lamp, open iris, and Crosstalk Canceller at +8, the settings are a worst-case scenario for those artifacts. To me they're non-issues however as I notice them so infrequently. I'll take the high brightness settings that make 98% of my viewing more enjoyable even if they make 2% less so. Nits aside, 3D images are gorgeous with this projector! Blacks are very dark, brightness is excellent, colors are vibrant and true. The clarity and depth of 3D are very impressive to my eyes. I don't have experience with other projectors so I don't have a frame of reference to know how the RS66 compares to the competition. My impressions should therefore be taken with a large grain of salt. Compared to the RS60 however, I believe the '66 is a worthy upgrade. All 3D viewing was done with JVC's new RF 3D glasses. They're a bit lighter and more comfortable than the XpanD's used with the RS60. The new glasses have a fairly neutral tint so a 3D calibration should be pretty close to the 2D values.

My only peeve with the '66 is the fan noise in high lamp mode. Since I use an HP screen, the pj sits ~ 1.5' from my head. The noise isn't too noticeable after the audio from the movie kicks in, but it's intrusive when the room is quiet. Fan noise in low lamp mode is OK - about the same as the RS60. 3D needs high lamp for good brightness, so hopefully this is something JVC will address in their future models...
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post #14 of 138 Old 12-22-2012, 02:34 PM
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Be careful when using the pixel adjust. You're not actually moving the panels to fix the convergence, you're using scaling. And there is never any free lunch. This will hurt fine detail and could create other scaling artifacts. I would weigh benefits compared to how bad the convergence actually is at the seating position or in the center of the screen. If you're talking about half a pixel in the top portion only, I'd leave it alone.

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post #15 of 138 Old 12-22-2012, 03:08 PM
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I'll try resetting the Pixel Adjust settings when I have time and look closely for detail & artifact differences. Thanks for the suggestion Kris!
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post #16 of 138 Old 12-22-2012, 06:17 PM
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using the fine pixel adjustment on my 4810 made a huge difference in picture quality. Much much sharper and clearer picture.
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post #17 of 138 Old 12-22-2012, 09:31 PM
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But as Chris infers, it does cost you some sharpmess and resolution at the pixel level. The worst is pixel shifts close to one half pixel. Full pixel shifts do not involve scaling or any loss of resolution or sharpness. Just a lost line of pixels per full pixel shift at the extremity of the direction shifted. A half pixel shift is never need because you can shift a full pixel the other way. Bottom line a shift of two tenths is OK nut a shift of 4 tenths outweighs the good. If you can't see the misconvergence or CA at your viewing distance, its probably a net negative to shift more than 2 tenths (of course shift full pixels as much as is needed).

None of this is debatable. Chris and I know what we are talking about here and Greg Rogers also concurs. Even the Sony manual warns about the use of its err convergence controls.

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post #18 of 138 Old 12-22-2012, 10:15 PM
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This is an area where a true 4K projector could be interesting. Since the majority of the material on the market today is less than 2K resolution, you actually have resolution to spare. So doing pixel shifting like this may not be as detrimental. But with a 2K projector ANY SCALING is usually a bad thing and should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Color fringing, CA or convergence are definitely issues not to be taken too lightly but you have the weigh the cost benefits when you start doing tricks to fix it, and pixel shifting less than a full pixel is nothing but a trick. Most of the convergence issues I've seen on JVC projectors in my room (and believe me, I'VE HAD LOTS OF THEM IN MY ROOM) have really only been an issue up close to the screen. Rarely do I see convergence issues that are actually a problem at the seating position. I, like anyone else, would prefer not to have them in the first place but I would never recommend "fixing" a problem just to cause another one. Look at a single pixel on/off pattern and see what applying pixel shifting does to the resolution of the display.

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post #19 of 138 Old 12-22-2012, 11:34 PM
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I've confirmed that there are PQ issues using the Pixel Adjust (Fine) adjustments. While standard convergence patterns show a marked improvement using this tool, a single pixel grid shows significant color shifts in the adjusted region. I reset my previous Pixel Adjust settings and used the Pixel Adjust (Fine) Zone mode to dial in the convergence in four adjacent zones. The following test patterns on the AVSHD 709 test disc showed a significant discoloration in the zones that were adjusted:

Misc. Patterns -> Resolution -> 3 Horiz. Resolution - 1 pixel
Misc. Patterns -> Resolution -> 4 Vert. Resolution - 1 pixel
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post #20 of 138 Old 12-26-2012, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Htnut2000 View Post

Compared to the X9, this projector is a light cannon! I have measured 1017 lumens on high lamp and 676 on low lamp (fully calibrated). This compares to 790 on high lamp on the X9. which is a 28% increase.
How many hours were on the X9 bulb? Unless the bulb was also new (like the X95), the 28% light increase comparison would not be relevant as the older projector's bulb may be dimmer.

Thanks for the review!

Kal
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post #21 of 138 Old 12-26-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

How many hours were on the X9 bulb? Unless the bulb was also new (like the X95), the 28% light increase comparison would not be relevant as the older projector's bulb may be dimmer.
Thanks for the review!
Kal

Hi Kal

The measurements were taken under the same conditions and with new bulbs.
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post #22 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 09:01 AM
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I hesitate a bit to add to the discussion because I am not as technical as others here are. I cannot measure brightness and such like that. But I put up my new JVC DLA-RS66U and I am very impressed. It replaced a JVC DLA-RS60U3D, a unit that had broken several times in the last year, so my dealer worked with me to replace it with a new unit and a new model..

I am using it with a Krell 707 3D unit and an Oppo 105 Blu Ray player. I also use it with a Verizon Cable TV box and, occasionally, with a Pioneer Laser Disc machine.

I am NOT a 3D fanatic, but I wanted to see how the Krell and the new projector handled 3D so I saw the movie Avatar in 3D.

First, the setting up was easier than I expected, I have it on a pole coming down from the ceiling. The default settings were basically good enough and I was surprised at how bright and colorful the picture was from the get go. The blacks were truly black also. The motor was quieter than the last model, but still a bit nosier than I would like. I guess I would like silence! Most important, the picture got even better after about 10 hours of use.

The 3D:

The one bad part of the 3D process are the glasses and set up. This unit comes with new system of 3D glasses. It does NOT use the old method IR method of 3D transmission, but RF, which requires the new glasses PK-AG3G (Two pair included) and new RF emitter: PK-EM2G also included. This unit and glasses are NOT included in the less expensive models, but they are in the 95. In small print somewhere they do state you can use the old system and old glasses. But, not knowing that, I bought two additional glasses

The units come without batteries, there is a rechargeable battery enclosed. While they come with a USB charger, they do not come with a wall socket, I had to buy one at Radio Shack.

You have to initiate the glasses before for use, which we found a pain in the neck. You can’t just pull the glasses out of the boxes and use them. This was a bit troubling. Nor, it the internal battery dies can you just put in a new battery, you have recharge the glasses. Yeah, these glasses are not always very comfortable.

How did it look in 3D?
Fantastic! I am NOT a 3D fan, but did want to make sure everything was working and was curious too at the new system. The picture was brighter, more colorful and much more detailed, far better than the old system and better than some movie houses. Also, the images that seem to come out off the screen and closer to the viewer were exceptional, where on the last projector they were just OK.

Sadly, the Krell unit had a bit of a problem communicating with the JVC and also with using DTS-HD and went back to the factory for a software update Wednesday. I’ll have it back just after the new year.

Surround Pre-Amp: Krell 707 3D; Amp: (center) Krell 400e; Amp Fronts Krell 600e; Rears Proceed HPA-3; SACD: Krell Cipher; FM: Day Sequerra FM Reference; Blu-Ray: Oppo BDP 105; Speakers: Revel Ultima Salon 2; Center: Revel Voice 2; Rear/Back: Thiel Powerplanes; Subs: 2 SVS SB-13 Ultra; Turntable:...
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post #23 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 09:14 AM
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Two posts in 10 years? Hell the Washington Wizards have one more games than that in one year, three! Enjoy your new projector. Happy new Year.

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post #24 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Two posts in 10 years? Hell the Washington Wizards have one more games than that in one year, three! Enjoy your new projector. Happy new Year.


lol smile.gif

Thanks lefisc thanks for the update..... I'm looking forward to getting home from vacation and getting everything installed and seeing for myself
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post #25 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 09:26 AM
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We have a photography business and use the Spyder4 to calibrate the screens for editing. I will do a initial calibration with the spdyer4 and JVC software to see how well it works and report back.

Then I will do a full calibration with the proper equipment wink.gif
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post #26 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 09:58 AM
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Mark, I'll do better.

I want to put up reviews on the Krell, Oppo and a few other times and get involved in more discussions.

By the way here are the instructions for the new 3D glasses.

Surround Pre-Amp: Krell 707 3D; Amp: (center) Krell 400e; Amp Fronts Krell 600e; Rears Proceed HPA-3; SACD: Krell Cipher; FM: Day Sequerra FM Reference; Blu-Ray: Oppo BDP 105; Speakers: Revel Ultima Salon 2; Center: Revel Voice 2; Rear/Back: Thiel Powerplanes; Subs: 2 SVS SB-13 Ultra; Turntable:...
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post #27 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

I've confirmed that there are PQ issues using the Pixel Adjust (Fine) adjustments. While standard convergence patterns show a marked improvement using this tool, a single pixel grid shows significant color shifts in the adjusted region. I reset my previous Pixel Adjust settings and used the Pixel Adjust (Fine) Zone mode to dial in the convergence in four adjacent zones. The following test patterns on the AVSHD 709 test disc showed a significant discoloration in the zones that were adjusted:
Misc. Patterns -> Resolution -> 3 Horiz. Resolution - 1 pixel
Misc. Patterns -> Resolution -> 4 Vert. Resolution - 1 pixel

There is nothing to confirm here. But I guess seeing is believing.

Electronic pixel partial shifting was put in projectors to shut ignorant customers up who bitched about misconvergence. Call the control convergence adjust and they become happy insteading of creating a bunch of b stocks. Once the optical engine is built, the panels can not be adjusted at the repair facility. all that can be done is change out the optical block, the equivalent of replacing the engine in a car.

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post #28 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

I've confirmed that there are PQ issues using the Pixel Adjust (Fine) adjustments. While standard convergence patterns show a marked improvement using this tool, a single pixel grid shows significant color shifts in the adjusted region. I reset my previous Pixel Adjust settings and used the Pixel Adjust (Fine) Zone mode to dial in the convergence in four adjacent zones. The following test patterns on the AVSHD 709 test disc showed a significant discoloration in the zones that were adjusted:
Misc. Patterns -> Resolution -> 3 Horiz. Resolution - 1 pixel
Misc. Patterns -> Resolution -> 4 Vert. Resolution - 1 pixel

I had exactly the same issue with my RS4810. I ran those patterns after run fine zone pixel adjustment and experienced significant color offsets.
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post #29 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

I had exactly the same issue with my RS4810. I ran those patterns after run fine zone pixel adjustment and experienced significant color offsets.

to be totally fair, the color shifts one sees on on off single pixel patterns present scaling difficulties (because electronic convergence alignments are scales and nothing really more) are torture scaling patterns. basically every time a line of pixels alternates from off to on basically you have a square wave flipping every other pixel. You rarely see anything this severe in normal conten and one won't see color shifts anything like this if using electtronic pixel alignment. we are cheating a bit bad mouthing it by showing these patterns. But what it clearly does is cost you resolution and sharpness. Unless you look for this loss you probably won't notice it but the loss is real. If you can's see misconvergence from your viewing position, just don't do any shifts except full pixel. If you see misconverce on text crawl or scores etc, use the zonal to fix where it bothers you. And neve use it other than for full pixel shifts more than abour 1/4 or a pixel.

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post #30 of 138 Old 12-28-2012, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by clrv View Post

We have a photography business and use the Spyder4 to calibrate the screens for editing. I will do a initial calibration with the spdyer4 and JVC software to see how well it works and report back.
Then I will do a full calibration with the proper equipment wink.gif

My X75 will be here in a couple of days! smile.gif I am very interested in the auto calibration process, and looking forward to your results. I talked to L.A at Spectracal a few days ago and he said they should have the autocal feature done for the X95(RS66)/X75(RS56) in Calman5 very soon. I have a C-6 that I profile to an i1Pro using the DPG-2000 pattern generator. I will post my results once the Calman5 update is available. I wish JVC would support more meters.

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