All 5020/6020 Owners, Please Help! Please answer this Poll in an attempt to get a response from Epson. - Page 3 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: How is the quality of your 5020/6020?
6020 owners only (5020 owners please skip to the 5020 section): My 6020 is just fine, no complaints. 12 8.39%
6020: I have exchanged my 6020 at least once. 5 3.50%
6020: I returned my 6020 due to defects. 1 0.70%
My 6020 had/has bad convergence. 8 5.59%
My 6020 had/has bad flare. 3 2.10%
My 6020 had/has bad CA. 3 2.10%
My 6020 had/has bad focus uniformity. 5 3.50%
My 6020 had/has bad white field uniformity 3 2.10%
My 6020 can not focus all three primary colors simultaneously. 3 2.10%
5020 owners only (6020 owners you're done.): My 5020 is just fine, no complaints. 15 10.49%
5020: I have exchanged my 6020 at least once. 12 8.39%
5020: I returned my 6020 due to defects. 6 4.20%
My 5020 had/has bad convergence. 26 18.18%
My 5020 had/has bad flare. 8 5.59%
My 5020 had/has bad CA. 4 2.80%
My 5020 had/has bad focus uniformity. 11 7.69%
My 5020 had/has bad white field uniformity 11 7.69%
My 5020 can not focus all three primary colors simultaneously. 7 4.90%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 76 Old 01-11-2013, 07:47 PM
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Yeah, the panel focus is generally good across the display for each channel (some corners are slightly fuzzier). I get CA at extreme lens shifts, but I expected a little of that for optics at this price point.

Not sure what to make of the gap you mentioned. It was projecting on a textured wall in the pic, but I slid a flat index card into the beam to make sure it wasn't related to the wall. It wasn't.

The source was clean HDMI from a PC at 1080p with all (known) video processing turned off (PC and projector). I'm going to try the electronic alignment again (ugh) with whole pixel shifts to see if I can get something going.

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post #62 of 76 Old 01-16-2013, 12:20 PM
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Can anyone tell me how exactly do you check for focus uniformity on the 5020?

I'm not sure how to do this for each channel other than displaying the horizontal and vertical screens posted on the first message of this thread.

Thanks!
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post #63 of 76 Old 01-16-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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There's two parts to focus uniformity. First, just use the focus pattern built in to the PJ. It's best if you focus an area of center. Don't expect perfect uniformity, that's not going to happen and you don't need it. But do expect that you should be able to see decent focus on all parts of the screens. The corners are going to be worst. Then, put up the patterns you mentioned. That'll show fow well each of the colors is focused. All three colors should be reasonably close. You'll see some flare on each color. But it shouldn't reach the point where you're seeing what looks like two or even three pixels instead of one. Now, if you're using a lot of lens shift, you'll see worse flare, again especially in the corners. That's expected; that's life. What you don't want to see in the corners or edges is a color shift with a white field. For instance, if the red pixels are flaring badly, you'll see a pink tint in that area when it should be white. How much is too much? If it is bad enough that you can see it in a snowy scene or a cloudy scene. That'll happen if you can easily see it with a white test pattern. If you really have to look hard to see it on a white test pattern, odds are you won't be able to detect it while viewing normal material.

Remember, focus is extremely sensitive. 1/8" focus ring movement can easily take a focused picture and take it out of focus.

Don't worry if every pixel doesn't look perfect. They aren't going to. A little flare, a little bit out of focus, a little mis-convergence, is not going to hurt your picture. A lot is. When in doubt, post up pictures. Look at actual scenes. Move the menu around the screen. Does it look worse in the "bad" parts of the screen than in the "good" parts? View scenes from the closest seating position.

Here's the deal. Everything is a tradeoff. If you're going to be sitting very close to the screen--less than 1.1 x screen width--there are better projectors. if you're at 1.2 or beyond, will you be able to see the errors your PJ has? If not, the torch modes on the Epson are very nice to have. The 3D is great with RF glasses.

The problem seems to be--as indicated by this poll--that Epson's quality control is not where it used to be. People have always gotten a few bad units with every brand. That's what warranties are for. But I've been through a number of bad Epson PJs trying to get a good one this year. Hopefully I'll have more to report on this soon...
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post #64 of 76 Old 01-24-2013, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I discovered something about the problem with inverting some 5020/6020s. Some people have reported problems, which may not have been problems in some cases.

When you adjust the pixel convergence, you tell the red pixels to go up. (For instance.) When you invert the screen, up becomes down. However, the pixel alignment is still telling the red pixels to go up. Except that Up is now down, so the alignment adjustment is now telling the pixels to go exactly the wrong direction. So instead of aligning the pixels, the adjustment you had is un-aligning the pixels. Am I making sense? I tested this by not moving the projector, but changed the projection setting back to "Front" from "Front/Ceiling". Sure enough the pixels went out of alignment.

So, if you test a 50020/6020 on a bench before you ceiling mount it, and if you enable "LCD Alignment" while testing on that bench, and then you ceiling mount it, it's going to look like something moved inside because the convergence will now be horrible. The solution is to "reset" the LCD Alignment and start over.

Hopefully this information will help some people.
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post #65 of 76 Old 01-24-2013, 08:11 PM
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I have a question about the "SinglePixelText" file. Should I expect that the text in the center and in all four corners should be in focus at the same time?

Also, is there an "Idiot's Guide" to using the LCD Alignment function? I've played around with it but... I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be looking for. Am I supposed to be focusing on the yellow box in the four corners and making sure that the four sides of the yellow box contain only yellow pixels? Or should I be looking at the white grid lines closest to the yellow box?

Thanks in advance for your help.
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post #66 of 76 Old 01-25-2013, 03:27 AM
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Just got my 6020 today. Fired it up and test with mp4-2c from my computer and the convergence looked fine unless I don't know what I doing.
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post #67 of 76 Old 02-04-2013, 10:55 AM
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Ok, after testing 4 projectors I finally found one I think I can live with. Convergence is within 1 pixel for all colors over most of the screen and dead on in the middle. The remaining convergence artifacts are visible but not too noticeable at 1.1x screen width seating distance. The iris on the final unit seems a bit quieter than the rest as well.

I never could get the electronic convergence to look good to my eyes. Even when using Brian's approach, I still noticed filtering artifacts that were visible on test patterns from the seating distance. I tried variations of the method as well, using "5" and "8" (instead of "10") as the 'full' pixel increment magic number to no avail.

The reality is that none of the panels I received had purely "simple translation" convergence issues (which could be fixed accurately by the above correction method). They were instead misaligned in 3 dimensions, which causes corners to be out of alignment/focus and convergence to vary across the screen. E.g. while one corner might be within +1 pixel, the other might be within -1 pixel and any correction applied would just make the other side worse.

To their credit, Epson customer service was pleasant to deal with and worked quickly to make sure I was satisfied.

Additionally, I expect that mildly bad convergence will only be an issue for people who:
  • Like to or have to sit close to the screen (<1.5 screen width)
  • Like to use their HT projector as a computer display (convergence artifacts are most visible with sharp graphics like text and window borders)
  • Are accustomed to perfect convergence on single chip DLP projectors

Only one of the units I tested suffered from white field non-uniformity, so I'm guessing that's much less of a problem for this unit.

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post #68 of 76 Old 02-04-2013, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

The problem seems to be--as indicated by this poll--that Epson's quality control is not where it used to be. People have always gotten a few bad units with every brand. That's what warranties are for. But I've been through a number of bad Epson PJs trying to get a good one this year. Hopefully I'll have more to report on this soon...

I went through two 6020s. I spent an hour getting acceptable convergence with the second unit so I'm keeping it. I've owned three Epson projectors before these two and never had a problem with convergence. I think you're right and that Epson's quality control, at least for convergence, is now non-existent. Epson needs to fix this. Besides this problem Epson has a great product at a great price. I tried the Samsung cheap RF glasses and I really like them!
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post #69 of 76 Old 02-06-2013, 11:49 AM
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After having several units that had BAD convergence - plus white text looking smeared (flare) . . . I FINALLY had one of their customer support folks tell me that Epson has had these optical issues with their 3D projectors since they were introduced last year! This might be why their good customer service is REALLY good - since they know it's a true problem. I've asked them on the phone before "why so many problems", and I've always gotten an answer that seemed like there aren't really any issues that they were admitting to. At least one person recently was able to level with me.

It seems too many people here need to play the "swapping game" to get a unit that has reasonable optics. Nothings perfect . . . but bad is bad.

Ian
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post #70 of 76 Old 02-09-2013, 11:16 AM
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Hello,
This is my first post and i know being a long time reader now, that it is most common just to post if you have something to complain ;-)
I apologize for this, but i start to be nerved with Epson...

I was in the game for a 3020e beginning January. I went to a local dealer and ordered it. After a week he called me and said, they will not have in stock till February. He felt sorry for this and asked me, if i want to cancel my order, or he would make me an offer for a 5020.
We not wanted to wait so long and the projector was available.

Great projector. We sure watched movies all weekend! 2D and 3D. But there was a problem with a pink dust blob. So i made my first mistake not waited to go to the store, i called Epson. Very nice people on the phone actually and after all the testing the would replace me with a new one. I waited one week and i called and asked for the replacement. My fault the credit card has a limit, so i would need to send back the unit first. My fault, but a simple call, or an email would saved me a lot time.

They new one arrived and was not good out of the box. Soft focus, convergence and i think reds were specially blurred. So on the phone again and send it back. 2 days later and nothing, so i called again and i get an apologize the units are on Back-order till the weekend.

Yesterday i called and they said they will not have till mid February......... Thank you for your call and thank you for choosing Epson...

The people on the phone are so nice, that i was not even able to get angry... (great training).
But after i was mad and i cannot stop being mad about this.

11 January i bought a projector and it will be middle or even end February to have all (hopefully the unit is working) installed - and finally able to enjoy the movies.

It is like buying a car and waiting for the tires to be delivered.

For all of you, who have a working 5020 - i am jealous - it is or could be a great machine !

Sorry for the venting and sorry for my English.
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post #71 of 76 Old 02-09-2013, 03:20 PM
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Hi reffy,

I have a very similar situation when it comes to Epson customer service. Ordered the 5020 from Crutchfield. It started once but never again, apparently a defect with the ballast, the lamp light flashes red and it never projects an image. I'm also waiting for mid February for replacement. Glad to read your post since it shows we're both getting the same info.

My screen from Jamestown screens is due in next week too so I'm just hoping the new 5020 is a keeper this time.
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post #72 of 76 Old 02-09-2013, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpappas View Post

Hi reffy,

I have a very similar situation when it comes to Epson customer service. Ordered the 5020 from Crutchfield. It started once but never again, apparently a defect with the ballast, the lamp light flashes red and it never projects an image. I'm also waiting for mid February for replacement. Glad to read your post since it shows we're both getting the same info.

My screen from Jamestown screens is due in next week too so I'm just hoping the new 5020 is a keeper this time.

Hopefully, we hear from Epson soon.
Please keep me informed, if you get any new information. I guess you will have your replacement sooner then me. I am from Canada and if i understand good the unit will be shipped from U.S.
The worst part, besides being angry about this situation - i already worry about the big "IF" word.... what if the next one is bad .... ohhhh my ... fingers crossed!
Thank, you - good luck and keep in touch! :-)
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post #73 of 76 Old 02-18-2013, 07:03 PM
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Hello,
Just a quick update ....
We received our projector today. After the long waiting, finally we are able to watch and enjoy our movies.

The convergence is off as expected, but this unit is sharp as our first one. The text and menus no longer flare, like on the replacement.
I did the LCD- alignment and now the Menu text is white.

Why, i have to do the work for EPSON? Sure during the production there could be an automated alignment procedure, no?

Just watched half of Avartar, 3d is working as well.
Maybe to early to say, but it looks like a keeper.

I am happy!!!

Tonight is King Kong (1976) Blu-ray movie night! Pizza for all ;-)
Thank you
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post #74 of 76 Old 02-21-2013, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpl0220 View Post

Just got my 6020 today. Fired it up and test with mp4-2c from my computer and the convergence looked fine unless I don't know what I doing.
I take it back. I was so excited to see such bright contrast from my new projector compared to my old HD80 DLP I didn't see the little blur or not so sharp faces from HD, tv, sat,etc. I tried turning the sharpness but couldn,t get the picture any sharper. For a couple days I was a little bummed thinking that LCD was not as sharp as my old DLP projector.
After watching how blurry my subtitles were I finely figured out why "convergence" now I understand. Sorry it took so long I wish i could change my first satisfied poll result.
Thanks to this post for pointing me in the right direction. It took a while to learn how to use the lcd panel adjuster but, i finely figured it out. I must say it made a big difference and now I am very satisfied with my sharper picture. I must say my method is totally not the same as kirnack's (Changing each corner 4 or 5 notches up the same), this confused the situation, it was simpler just to tighten up each corner to what ever it needed and then do the middle when needed later.
As to some who think this was a big problem and would return the projector I don't blame you because this issue should of been stated with a big red warning notice and a, how to fix notice with the manual. Because it was a simpler fix if stated earlier.
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post #75 of 76 Old 02-21-2013, 02:54 PM
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After having my PJ (5020) since Feb.4rth, I have to say 2D is definitely not as sharp as 3D, or BluRay or even the streaming on Netflix. But then, the channels vary so much (AT&T) I could adjust for one station and totally mess up another. I think I was spoiled with my old Sanyo PLV_Z4 with it's sharpness in the 2D TV channels. I'm not knocking the 5020. I think that it is so good, that imperfections not seen before, show up more readily. When a good quality broadcast is transmitted, the picture is awesome and sharp. I think AT&T needs to work on the consistancy of station to station quality. As far as convergence goes, from where I sit (about 12 feet) it looks great. As long as I focus every day after about 10 minutes of run time I'm fine.
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post #76 of 76 Old 04-26-2013, 06:51 PM
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After exchanging my third Epson 6020 in one month, there will be no fourth! I have returned the Epson to my stereo dealer and exchanged it for a Digital Projection Mvision 230 - a much sharper picture but more money.

While Epson was very accommodating in exchanging the projectors (overnight replacement), they all had auto iris errors, shut down problems or large blue tint areas on screen. I could not get one to work more than 3 days in a row. Every time I turned one on, I wondered, will it work!

My dealer thinks there must be a bad run coming out of China. The DP Mvision 230 is made in England - no plastic!

Just a word of caution for you new buyers.

Scotty
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