DA-Lite Hi Power and JVC DLA-RS4810 a good match? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I posted this over in the dedicated home theater forum, but it was recommended that I put it in this one...



Hi all, For the last couple of years, I have been working on a new house project, which finally is about to get underway.

Back when I started, I was looking at the Mitsubishi HC9000d PJ. Well, technology changes, so today I am leaning towards the JVC RS4810. ( the only other possibility, is if/when Sony announces a replacement for their VW95), I will be ready to buy around May when my house is done.

I will be having a dedicated, light controlled home theater. 26x16...

Of the 26 ft depth, the front 16 ft will be 11 ft ceilings... then a 2 ft step up for the back 10 ft, to accommodate 2 row seating (9ft ceiling)

I want a screen size of at least 133" and maybe up to 150" (145" sounds about what I will get based upon room size)

When I was looking at the Mits, the HP screen seemed like the ticket because of the Mits light output.

With the JVC, I am not so sure, maybe the HP screen is overkill?. This will be my first HT, so I am looking to you all for your experience and advice.

Do you think the DA-Lite HP, (maybe 145") is a good match?

As far as PJ placement, With the 2 ft step up, I "can" mount the PJ about 4-5 ft high (on a 2-3 ft stand + 2ft of floor.... 16.5 ft throw minimum), with the screen's bottom starting at about 3 ft high. Is that a direct enough shot? The other option is a drop down ceiling mount, but wouldn't like that look unless it is necessary.

From what I have read about the JVC... it should be able to light up this screen, even in 3D mode. And I am thinking the HP screen will let me maybe run in ECO mode for 2D?

As you can see from the dimensions of the room, the seating area will be about 15.5ft back for the first row.and pretty centered... not much off axis viewing. of Course the second row will be around 18-19ft and 2 feet over the first row.

"IF" the HP is a good screen to get in this situation, there are a couple of concerns I have....

The wife does not want a fixed screen, (neither do I really) We will be using the room also for audio, and general entertaining. So artwork on the wall behind the screen.

The DA-Lite HP cannot be tensioned... if I get a larger electric (maybe Cosmopolitan 145") I am concerned about it "sagging" Some forums say this is a good possibility, while other say the HP screen material is heavy and will keep it tensioned. Any thoughts?

I have also been looking at the elite screen Cinewhite CinetensionII... (trying to stay in budget)

Thanks in advance everyone, and I am sure this won't be my first set of questions...74Gibson
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post #2 of 14 Old 12-29-2012, 05:33 PM
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Its a good choice for the JVC and its limited light output with a large screen like that provided your eyes are about the same height as the projector lens. HP is a retroreflective screen that has maximum gain when the projector lens height is close to eye height..

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post #3 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply Mark, While the lens could be about eye level for the second row seating, (projector in the middle with seating to either side) .... it would be about 2-3 ft over the head of the lower level seating.... The bottom of the screen would be about eye level with the lower level. The projector would be about 17-18 ft back...

Do you think this is ok? I am thinking with such a high gain screen, even if "some" gain is lost at lower level seating, it should still be good. I just don't want a situation where If I adjust it to look good for the lower level seating it will be too bright for the upper row.


PJ
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post #4 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam74Gibson View Post

Thanks for the reply Mark, While the lens could be about eye level for the second row seating, (projector in the middle with seating to either side) .... it would be about 2-3 ft over the head of the lower level seating.... The bottom of the screen would be about eye level with the lower level. The projector would be about 17-18 ft back...
Do you think this is ok? I am thinking with such a high gain screen, even if "some" gain is lost at lower level seating, it should still be good. I just don't want a situation where If I adjust it to look good for the lower level seating it will be too bright for the upper row.
PJ


You can check your prospective gains on the calculator below.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1213577/da-lite-hi-power-new-or-old-what-did-you-get/560_40#post_19889242

I have the Cosmopolitan 133" 2.8 high power screen with front row eyes at 38", 2nd row at 50" and pj lense at 53". Bottom of the screen is 35". I don't find a noticable diference in brightness from front to back row.

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post #5 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

You can check your prospective gains on the calculator below.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1213577/da-lite-hi-power-new-or-old-what-did-you-get/560_40#post_19889242
I have the Cosmopolitan 133" 2.8 high power screen with front row eyes at 38", 2nd row at 50" and pj lense at 53". Bottom of the screen is 35". I don't find a noticable diference in brightness from front to back row.

Thanks! This information is very helpful... you have almost the same setup I am looking for, so good comparison!

I will take a look at the link, I am sure it will help. It's funny, all the searches I have done on this subject did not turn up that link... must have been my phrasing....


One more question... any sagging issues with your screen?

PJ
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post #6 of 14 Old 12-30-2012, 11:56 PM
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Remember the brightness, say measured in ft lamberts, would have to quadruple for your eyes to perceive it as beiing twice as bright and the other way around for it being perceived as half as bright. Small gain differences do not look much different to the eyes

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post #7 of 14 Old 12-31-2012, 01:16 AM
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I have multi level seating with a 2.8 Hi Power and a 4810 in and on a custom module & stand similar to your proposed pedestal mounting, centrally located in the theater, also with seats in front of and below it, along side of it and behind and above it. All have very good Hi Power lines of sight but my front lower ones are slightly better than yours as the screen's bottom edge is at about 1.5' from the floor. The 2.4 material would not be overkill at all for gain as you do have as you say the eco lamp mode to be able to run for 2D plus 15 clicks on the iris to be able to take it down as far as you need. So far my lamp with 150 hours has been holding its brightness marvelously in the eco mode. It fluctuates but roughly I am only down 6 center reading LUX from the lens since the first hour, including calibration at 100 hours. And when you run 3D you will be loving the fact you have the extra gain coming from that surface. There's a whole clan of us Hi Power fan boys here and proud of it..... biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif The only downside to that combination of projector and screen for your setup is that likely from time to time you may stress your arm patting yourself on the back. smile.gif

As far as your question about sagging without a tensioned screen option with the Hi Power material maybe others can chime in. They have a couple versions as you say and it would seem the electric one would be the way to go to do it nicely. But it is a definite characteristic of the material to NOT show wrinkles or sags or bumps when projected upon especially if you're sitting within the left / right cone of the screen's side edges.
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post #8 of 14 Old 12-31-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam74Gibson View Post

One more question... any sagging issues with your screen?
PJ

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Originally Posted by RonF View Post

it would seem the electric one would be the way to go to do it nicely. But it is a definite characteristic of the material to NOT show wrinkles or sags or bumps when projected upon especially if you're sitting within the left / right cone of the screen's side edges.

I have a couple sags that have been there since I first hung 4 years ago. When I first hung I was a little freaked, even with reports that it did not affect pq. But after MANY viewings I can say there is no issue with the projected image. smile.gif

Here is an early picture. The room has changed a bit since this but you can see the no image screen



Pics I took about a year ago. 1600 hours on the lamp



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post #9 of 14 Old 12-31-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone, unless some new "gotta have it" screen material comes out within the next 3-4 months, then the 2.4 HP it is... I appreciate the feedback.

PJ
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post #10 of 14 Old 12-31-2012, 12:15 PM
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In my fixed installation with a custom HP size ordered with custom velcro for fastening to a surface behind it and tuck in behind very physical framing around it, and then cropped after the fastening with more of the surrounding same frame material, I had and still have some bumps or irregularities not quite as much as GoCaboNow's but right in the same ball park. We worked, my son and I and could not get them out. You can see in the same kind of light as he took from the same angle when you walk in if there were a bright single light on. Which there rarely is. But with image projected on it, even from a further left of the edge of the screen type of angle than above you can't see anything. Awesome! tongue.gif

GoCabo .... Sweet!
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post #11 of 14 Old 02-12-2013, 03:19 PM
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GoCaboNow: Just so I understand, the Cosmopolitan has no form of tensioning, correct?

My CinemaContour with snaps tensions the high power material (I have HCHP, but that's irrelevant) quite well. If you tap it, it sounds like a drum. Pretty well tensioned.

Only problem is some of the snaps sometimes are a little too hard to snap in, & pull the material so tight as to cause some small ripples near the edges of the screen. I only have that problem in the upper left & bottom right of the screen. Small ripples, but I can see them in skies during viewing if I look for them. Not a huge problem; certainly better than having larger ripples.

Draper's non-snap tensioning system is better, but incredibly difficult to assemble without multiple people to pull the last edge to the higher notch to tension properly. I'm still trying to decide which to keep (Draper vs Da-Lite); both HCHP (Draper's is called "Contrast Radiant") have offensive banding/texture to them, and so need to be replaced either way. Going OT here though so I'll stop.
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post #12 of 14 Old 02-12-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

GoCaboNow: Just so I understand, the Cosmopolitan has no form of tensioning, correct?

You are correct. Screen connected at the top, bar at the bottom and nothing else.

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post #13 of 14 Old 02-12-2013, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam74Gibson View Post

The DA-Lite HP cannot be tensioned... if I get a larger electric (maybe Cosmopolitan 145") I am concerned about it "sagging" Some forums say this is a good possibility, while other say the HP screen material is heavy and will keep it tensioned. Any thoughts?

I've been mating my JVCs (RS60 & RS66) with an HP 2.4 Contour Electrol for three years. I've been very happy with that combo. The HP allows me to leave the lamp on low and the iris mostly closed for 2D viewing. Even with the extra gain of the HP, I configure my JVC for high lamp, iris open, and "Crosstalk Cancel" at +8 for 3D. This puts 3D brightness on par with 2D. If I had a unity gain screen 3D would be significantly dimmer since my pj is already configured for max brightness.

Da-Lite had this to say about the unavailability of a tensioning option for the HP:
"We can only tension vinyl surfaces. The 2.4 gain material is fiberglass based. It won't stretch as easy as the vinyl. This is why we can't use it on a tensioned screen. The fiberglass surfaces like high power are more self supportive and do not need the tension like vinyl screen. We install a weight bar in the bottom of the surface to hold it tight. Most waves in a surface are caused by the aluminum roller it is attached to. If the roller is straight the surface will hang flat. If it is curved or deflected the surface will have waves. This is true for both tensioned and non-tensioned screens. Both the tensioned and non-tensioned Contour use a 3.25" diameter aluminum roller. You can order high power on a fixed frame screen, but it can be very difficult to snap all the way on the frame since it doesn't stretch as well as the traditional vinyl surfaces."
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post #14 of 14 Old 02-18-2013, 05:14 PM
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I've been mating my JVCs (RS60 & RS66) with an HP 2.4 Contour Electrol for three years. I've been very happy with that combo. The HP allows me to leave the lamp on low and the iris mostly closed for 2D viewing. Even with the extra gain of the HP, I configure my JVC for high lamp, iris open, and "Crosstalk Cancel" at +8 for 3D. This puts 3D brightness on par with 2D. If I had a unity gain screen 3D would be significantly dimmer since my pj is already configured for max brightness.

Da-Lite had this to say about the unavailability of a tensioning option for the HP:
"We can only tension vinyl surfaces. The 2.4 gain material is fiberglass based. It won't stretch as easy as the vinyl. This is why we can't use it on a tensioned screen. The fiberglass surfaces like high power are more self supportive and do not need the tension like vinyl screen. We install a weight bar in the bottom of the surface to hold it tight. Most waves in a surface are caused by the aluminum roller it is attached to. If the roller is straight the surface will hang flat. If it is curved or deflected the surface will have waves. This is true for both tensioned and non-tensioned screens. Both the tensioned and non-tensioned Contour use a 3.25" diameter aluminum roller. You can order high power on a fixed frame screen, but it can be very difficult to snap all the way on the frame since it doesn't stretch as well as the traditional vinyl surfaces."

Yup, I can confirm that it's very difficult to snap the HP/HCHP material on the Cinema Contour frame. But once you do, it's tensioned like a drum smile.gif

Only problem I had was that some of the buttons/snaps tried to tension the non-tensionable HCHP material so much that it created small ripples. But they're small ripples at the corners, where most tension is applied. Like 3-4 ripples in two corners. Not terrible, but no ideal either.

Draper's tensioning system which applies even tension across all edges is much better. But also 10x harder to put together than the Da-Lite. You'll usually find some way to injure/cut yourself when assembling the Draper Onyx frame!

FYI I'm probably exchanging the Da-Lite HCHP material for HP, since there appear to be less complaints about texture/banding on the HP screen. Draper seemed less willing than Da-Lite, over the phone, to have a manager really inspect a screen before shipping it to me; hence my decision to go with Da-Lite.
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