Just when I thought LED was the future of projectors... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 12-31-2012, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I want to cry.

I thought LED was the ultimate choice:
1. Cool running with no cool down required or UPS in case of power failure to save a bulb.
2. 20k (?) hour "bulb" life with less than 10% loss in output and no colour shift.
3. 70% energy saving, not to mention less room cooling load.
4. Simple user replaceable LED, if I live that long.
5. "Easy" AR changes.
6. Great contrast ratio and brightness, etc, etc.

I was looking at a Runco, hoping that the price would come down or a used unit would be available by the time I needed it (may be a year from now).

I just read the thread on LED where someone said that LED was hot news 2 years ago at CES and this year it was barely mentioned; is there something wrong with it or it didn't live up to the hype? But, many say they love their Q750/1500 and discount the negative comments.

In another thread, a member started waxing poetic on CRT's and I thought about a Canadian made 8" Electrohome projector that I didn't buy for $2500 a few years ago ($80k new). Complete with the auto focus gizmo.

And now "everybody" is talking about the Sony 4k, which has a $$$ bulb! Oh...and is $20,000. Not my snack bracket.

The Runco claims to be adaptable to every format. After reading about the Sony 4k and re-reading the Runco website literature, I realize (I think) that for scope, the Runco requires an expensive optional lens and that other formats can be stretched to fill a screen. I have a 60" Pioneer Elite that wants to try to fill the screen (I can probably program this, but I'm enjoying the TV, even as it is, too much to take the time). It isn't until there are captions or titles that I realize how much picture I'm missing. So I end up going through the different picture sizes.

I want to see what the director wanted me to see. And I'd rather have letterbox if that is how I see it. I don't like the distortion created by the stretch to fill. Someone mentioned an LED pj, "under $10k", that can project a 2.35:1 image without an optional lens or artificially stretching the digital information. Runco talks about stretching the image to take advantage of all of the pixels. This is where I get confused. Does this mean that this other pj expands the letter boxed image to fit the 2.35:1 screen by zooming or by electronically expanding the data to fill the chip before projection? Or does the Blue-ray disc have this full size image encoded on the disc?

I "think" the speakers have just moved to behind the screen (I thought there were issues with this), and the screen has stretched to 10' 6"-ish on a 12' wide wall (before wall coverings). It will be CIH (I got dizzy on that part of the thread). I picked up a like-new McIntosh system (circa 1990) with a MC7270 amp and XRT 23 reference speakers that have to fit in for music. It has been suggested that they would also make great front speakers...comments?

Can somebody PLEASE put me back on track?

Details about the room that this is going into: This is a dedicated HT and music listening room in a new basement addition. The room has poured concrete walls (ICF's), no windows and an 8" corrugated steel pan for a ceiling, covered with 6" of concrete/ 5mm rubber/ 3/4" plywood/hardwood flooring. The dimensions are 16' W x 26' L x 9' H stepping down to 11' at the screen end. Right now it makes a great carpentry shop, until I finish the trim upstairs (I am replicating the 1907 white oak mill work).

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post #2 of 31 Old 12-31-2012, 10:14 PM
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Okay, where to start? Lets start with the leds. The main issue with leds in the projector world has to do with how much light they can output. Many want these leds to produce 1000+ lumens. Unfortunately the brightest ones only output roughly 800. So, in a world where everything has to be bigger than it previously was, 600-800 lumens don't cut it for most. That's the only real drawback and the main reason you aren't seeing more manufactures use them. They're just not as desired as manufacturers thought they'd be.

On to the 2.35:1 issue. The 1.78:1 (16:9) aspect ratio was adopted by almost every electronics manufacturer in the consumer world for everything involving HD. What you see is what the director intended. You just need to use black bars to achieve what the director intended on anything wider or taller than 1.78:1 on all these 16:9 screens. The projector simply vertically stretches an image to fill the entire 1.78:1 chip(s) and an anamorphic lens is needed to correct the geometry and give you the correct 1.33x image size you're supposed to get. Some projectors do this by simply zooming to make the image larger, but you'll still have black bars and thus black masking is usually needed to hide them. Go to the 2.35:1 forum if you're more interested in anamorphic movie watching. All the answers are there.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply.

This is where I'm looking for advice on projectors, in general, based on experience. I understand the premise that more must be better and that something better will be coming out next week. I wasn't considering 3D, now I am. I'm also old enough to realize that enough is enough. Several members have stated that you shouldn't rely on the LED spec's alone; that the Runco Q750/1500's perform better than spec's would indicate along side non-LED projectors. I also realize that the lighting control plays a huge part in perceived brightness. I am seeing that many HT are not dedicated and therefore have "blackout" curtains over windows. Given the specifics of my HT room with complete lighting control and the unknown projection distance required for the screen size, I was looking for guidance into what I should be looking at, unless a reader has specific experience with one of these (or comparable) projectors in a similar situation. When you go to the Runco LED page, they say that screens can vary from 8' to 40' wide, and certainly imply that their machines can do much more than I need. It was actually two salesmen, at two stores, that told me that one of these projectors was perfect for my HT.

As for the 2.35:1 AR, i will check out that section, thank you. As you say, all equipment is designed for 16:9, and I will be watching much of that format, so these same projectors must be relied on for the wide-screen movie experience. I have a basic understanding of the many ways that the conversion can be done, I guess I was asking those of you with projectors in the $3-10k range how the projectors actually perform in reality, manufacturers claims aside. I assume that many of you have had several projectors and have realized that a specific projector or company has a better than average understanding of what really works and gives the best bang for the buck. I trust first-hand practical experience over manufacturers claims or the opinion of a salesman, whom I don't know, who is trying to sell me something. I was in retail camera sales once and had to get out because of the BS that went on.

If this is not the type of info shared in this section, my apologies.

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post #4 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 12:55 PM
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I have demoed a couple of the latest LED models along with the latest JVC, 4K Sony etc.and the LED would be my choice - incredibly sharp, reference colour, no rainbows and what I would class as 'good enough' black levels for whats that worth. Probably best for screens in the region of 90-110" they could possibly do bigger, you'd have to ask an owner for more detail to choose the right gain screen. Unless perhaps you could dial down a 3 chipper to work at that size. What size screen did you envisage?
People will argue various points not always based on actual viewing experience. My advice would be to demo an LED and a competing technology in the same price range (JVC/Sony).

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post #5 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 01:25 PM
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I had the equivalent of a Sim2 micro 50 in my room at the same times as my Samsung SP-A9000B and Sony VPL-vw1000ES. Black pit, relatively short throw 1,3 gain Studeotec 130 54 x 96.

The Sony 4K demolished these, simply demolished them. I eventually switched to same size screen but Snomatt, I only had the sony at that point and it raised the difference even more from memorary of course.

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post #6 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 02:37 PM
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And there is a perfect example of what I am talking about. It depends on what you value in picture quality, the Sony has better black levels and is brighter. There may not be much in it sharpness-wise but when viewing 1080p material, the DLP pop and colour of the M150 just gave a more refined image in my opinion. I'd be interested in seeing a comparison where the birghtness of the Sony was dialled down to match an M150 with some 1080p material.
Mark, in that given scenario would still stand by 'demolished'? What aspects of the Sony do you think are so much better?
Don't get me wrong, I was very impressed with the VW1000, I'd take it over most bulb-based single-chip DLP projectors but as I said, I preferred the M150 to it at CEDIA
Either way, the OP already said he isn't going to spend $20k on the Sony so his alternative to an LED under $10k will be a JVC or potentially a Sony 95 so it may be more useful for him to demo those.

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post #7 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 03:16 PM
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It seems like there are very few worthwhile LED projectors. The lower cost ones like the one from Viewsonic have very poor colors and their lamp life doesn't even come close to the 20k claim. According to reviews, it lost brightness faster than most bulbs. Also, not all LED projectors are immune to rainbows. They also tend to run hot and noisy which is also counter to the marketing claims. Be sure to read all the reviews if you're considering something besides the high-end Runco and clones.
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post #8 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 03:38 PM
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I've yet to see a VLP-1000ES in action. I really want to see one. I respect Mark's opinion. He's seen basically everything. I'm still waiting to hear back from Vivitek about my NuVision P2 (tweaked Vivitek H9080FD). From the seller I bought it from he said it went to Vivitek for a throughout look through beforehand. I think Vivitek put an incorrect firmware on the unit as there are a ton of issues in the software/menus. Hopefully it's an easy fix and I can actually see the full potential this projector is capable of.
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Okay, where to start? Lets start with the leds. The main issue with leds in the projector world has to do with how much light they can output. Many want these leds to produce 1000+ lumens. Unfortunately the brightest ones only output roughly 800. So, in a world where everything has to be bigger than it previously was, 600-800 lumens don't cut it for most. That's the only real drawback and the main reason you aren't seeing more manufactures use them. They're just not as desired as manufacturers thought they'd be.

Lots of people are fine with JVC's and other pj's with the same 600-800 lumens, or less after dimming.

What's held LED's back is that they cost many times more.

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post #10 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 08:08 PM
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I think the main problem is why spend 3x as much for a projector that does not have a better picture than a bulb projector. I'm sure if they can build a projector in the Sony and jvc class for less than $5,000, they will not be able to keep them in stock. Red is supposedly coming out with there laser projector, which didn't meet the target date, but I wouldn't pay $10k plus $5k for the lens for it. For $10k, it better have a better picture than every single projector for under $5k for me to buy it.
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 11:41 PM
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I don't know what anyone's opinion of Panasonic's PT-RZ470 projector.
It's a LED and Laser projector.
Panasonic claims that it's 3000 Lumens.
It has 2 X zoom, lens shift.
1080 P
20,000 :1 contrast.
3D ready.
The price is around $ 5,000 USD.
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

I don't know what anyone's opinion of Panasonic's PT-RZ470 projector.
It's a LED and Laser projector.
Panasonic claims that it's 3000 Lumens.
It has 2 X zoom, lens shift.
1080 P
20,000 :1 contrast.
3D ready.
The price is around $ 5,000 USD.

I think I read the street price was around $3k. I am still interested in this projector. Looks promising, but I don't know how it compares with its PQ
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I think the main problem is why spend 3x as much for a projector that does not have a better picture than a bulb projector. I'm sure if they can build a projector in the Sony and jvc class for less than $5,000, they will not be able to keep them in stock. Red is supposedly coming out with there laser projector, which didn't meet the target date, but I wouldn't pay $10k plus $5k for the lens for it. For $10k, it better have a better picture than every single projector for under $5k for me to buy it.

You are not their customer. They could care less about what a customer buying in the sub 5K class wants their projector to do to before pulling out $10 to $15K to buy it. Chances are you would not spend $15K on a projector if it was twice as good as your $5000 class one. Others would to get increased performance and don't expect linearity as to dollar spent to dollar improvement.

alot of this boils down to affordability. I can't afford a Ferrari and settled for my miata. Good enough for me.

But there are some people out there that can splurge when the spluging only costs $15K. In fact there are more than quite a few. A lot more than could spend $25K MSRP on a Sony or $50K on a DPI Titan.

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post #14 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

You are not their customer. They could care less about what a customer buying in the sub 5K class wants their projector to do to before pulling out $10 to $15K to buy it. Chances are you would not spend $15K on a projector if it was twice as good as your $5000 class one. Others would to get increased performance and don't expect linearity as to dollar spent to dollar improvement.
alot of this boils down to affordability. I can't afford a Ferrari and settled for my miata. Good enough for me.
But there are some people out there that can splurge when the spluging only costs $15K. In fact there are more than quite a few. A lot more than could spend $25K MSRP on a Sony or $50K on a DPI Titan.

I would definitely spend $15k on a projector that I saw for my own eyes were better than the jvc RS55 and RS48.
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 04:07 PM
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The 20k:1 CR is not native on/off, just specmanship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPProjectorfan View Post

I don't know what anyone's opinion of Panasonic's PT-RZ470 projector.
It's a LED and Laser projector.
Panasonic claims that it's 3000 Lumens.
It has 2 X zoom, lens shift.
1080 P
20,000 :1 contrast.
3D ready.
The price is around $ 5,000 USD.

Noah
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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"I have demoed a couple of the latest LED models along with the latest JVC, 4K Sony etc.and the LED would be my choice - incredibly sharp, reference colour, no rainbows and what I would class as 'good enough' black levels for whats that worth. Probably best for screens in the region of 90-110" they could possibly do bigger, you'd have to ask an owner for more detail to choose the right gain screen. Unless perhaps you could dial down a 3 chipper to work at that size. What size screen did you envisage?" Daniel

My screen wall is 16' 1" w before any kind of finish is applied on the Styrofoam concrete forms (so I currently have flat, solid walls that I have to apply DW and/or soft material to w/ "?" thickness). Reading various build threads, I came on the screen size calculator in "What I would have done differently". 80% of the wall width, 153" would be the max screen width, making the CIH, 64.7" for 2.35:1 and then 115" wide for 16:9. At SH x 2 = 10' 9" for the front row seating would give me the "optimum" 48⁰ for 16:9 and 60⁰ for 2.35:1 (figures from Runco site). This actually works for my layout of two rows in front of where I had made the 2' step (concrete!) and the third row on top. 2nd row is on a 12" riser.

So I guess I'm past the 90-110". Looking at the Sim2 Mico 50, you mentioned, it suggests a 273.62" (range 234-313") "D". "On the surface" it looks like it works...yikes, just saw the price! Guess it is the same-ish for the Q750 that I was looking at (and hoping will come down in the next year).

What's OP? old phart?smile.gif



'What's held LED's back is that they cost many times more." Noah

This is an interesting point. I guess I look at the longer term cost of operation. What is it worth to have a light source that stays virtually the same for 20-30k hrs vs a $4-600 bulb that fades continually and needs replacing after 2-4k hrs, not to mention set-up. This is how I justify to myself the cost of a better projector. The wife isn't always convinced.

I have a photography background. If you wonder why someone would pay $2k for a Leitz lens that does essentially the same thing as a $500 lens from Minolta? To begin with the Minolta will do a adequate job; the Leitz lens will still be doing it better 20 years+ down the line. I would assume that the same analogy holds for any projector with moving parts. Money should buy quality of construction. And the money vs quality usually increases exponentially.

Thanks to all for your input. It looks like I have 3 or 4 contenders in the "possible" fantasy list and a couple to watch in the realistic range.

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 08:23 AM
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OP = original poster smile.gif

I think even with a high gain screen 153" is a bit much to ask of even the brightest LEDs out there at the moment. Also, depending on which high gain screen you bought, it might potentially introduce other issues with the image that may not be that desirable. I could be wrong, it might be possible but I would imagine its a bit of a stretch.

I'm not sure the bulb price argument holds up that well, I use my projector a lot and my current bulb is still watchable after one year at 3000 hours. The bulb cost me about $300 so even 20000 hrs would still only equate to $2000 over 6 years. The performance of the picture is probably a better way to determine if its the right choice and view the lack of hassle as a bonus, in my opinion.

I would recommend going for a bright projector, in the 1500-2000 lumens range. The Sony VW1000 would probably be a good fit but still the best part of $20k, you might be able to find it with a couple of $k off from some dealers. If you are lucky you might be able to find an ex-demo 3 chip DLP, Runco LS10 or Digital Projection HighliteCine260 in the $10-15k range. Both use the smaller 0.65" DLP chip. If you are very, very lucky, you might be able to find an ex-demo 0.95" 3 chip DLP but more than likely it will be used at that price and there are obviously risks associated. Personally that would be my choice but I am, as one forum member puts it, a 'habitual gambler'
Under $10k there is the Benq W7000, the Sony 50ES is pretty bright too, paired with the right screen they should work.

As always, I would recommend demoing whichever ones fit in your budget

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post #18 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post


.
I would definitely spend $15k on a projector that I saw for my own eyes were better than the jvc RS55 and RS48.[/quote

Then you should rush out a buy a b stock sony VPL-vw1000ES.

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post #19 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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I seen one, I don't thinks its 2x better. So, no need to pay 5x more. When i see it with an actual 4K disc, then it might change to be 2x or more better. By that time it might be other cheaper options.

Edit: Let me clarify what I meant. It wasn't 2x better than what I watch with my jvc, which is only 2D blu rays. Overall, the Sony is probably 10x better. I rather have a 2-3 projector setup to satisfy my needs. JVC for 2D blu rays, Benq for 3D and sports, and a cheap LED projector to turn on when ever needed. Combined less than 1/3 of the Sony. But yes, the Sony does everything better but at a much higher cost than I am not able to justify now. Plus, I thought I meant a LED projector and the Sony has a bulb:eek:
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post #20 of 31 Old 01-03-2013, 11:05 AM
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The luminous devices pt 120 is the only led I know of for these, not that there aren't others, I just don't know what they are
If you felt like it, you could order them from at least 2 suppliers, mouser and digikey, and the mouser price for the 3 comes to a total < $230
There is a module being sourced from luminus (I think) which combines the 3 for $999. Search for a company called Wavien. I didn't look at it long enough to tell exactly what it was, but it looks like it combines the 3 colours thru a prism so you'd get white (if all 3 were turned on at the same time).

I'm certainly not saying there aren't other issues that will increase the cost of a led based projector, they might be very difficult to work with, and perhaps there is substantial cost with other components, but the cost of the leds themselves don't appear to be responsible for the increased cost of the projectors. At least not the reason they start at $10k+ and go up from there.

since led's also follow something called haitz's law,
"It states that every decade, the cost per lumen (unit of useful light emitted) falls by a factor of 10, and the amount of light generated per LED package increases by a factor of 20, for a given wavelength (color) of light. It is considered the LED counterpart to Moore's law".
That guideline translates into roughly a 35% increase in brightness per year.
I had high hopes that a couple of years after introduction, the lumens would get higher and the cost lower so that you could waste a few more lumens to increase the contrast ratio. That doesn't seem to have happened, though. I think luminous has not seen the return on investment and probably aren't pursuing it much anymore??

I also think laser is "sexier" than led and people are expecting it to be just around the corner. Personally, I think direct solid state green laser at sufficient brightness is still a few years away, so you'll probably see more hybrid projectors in the next couple of years. It sounds like some of the hybrids aren't quite living up to their life expectancies though

Scott Stephens
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-04-2013, 01:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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OP = original poster smile.gif
I think even with a high gain screen 153" is a bit much to ask of even the brightest LEDs out there at the moment. Also, depending on which high gain screen you bought, it might potentially introduce other issues with the image that may not be that desirable. I could be wrong, it might be possible but I would imagine its a bit of a stretch.
I'm not sure the bulb price argument holds up that well, I use my projector a lot and my current bulb is still watchable after one year at 3000 hours. The bulb cost me about $300 so even 20000 hrs would still only equate to $2000 over 6 years. The performance of the picture is probably a better way to determine if its the right choice and view the lack of hassle as a bonus, in my opinion.
I would recommend going for a bright projector, in the 1500-2000 lumens range. The Sony VW1000 would probably be a good fit but still the best part of $20k, you might be able to find it with a couple of $k off from some dealers. If you are lucky you might be able to find an ex-demo 3 chip DLP, Runco LS10 or Digital Projection HighliteCine260 in the $10-15k range. Both use the smaller 0.65" DLP chip. If you are very, very lucky, you might be able to find an ex-demo 0.95" 3 chip DLP but more than likely it will be used at that price and there are obviously risks associated. Personally that would be my choice but I am, as one forum member puts it, a 'habitual gambler'
Under $10k there is the Benq W7000, the Sony 50ES is pretty bright too, paired with the right screen they should work.
As always, I would recommend demoing whichever ones fit in your budget

I liked "Old Phart"

Sadly...I think you are absolutely right. The bulb thing is how I trick myself into spending more...thanks for ruining that for me.

I hadn't seen the screen size calculator before and was thinking in terms of a 10' 6" screen, with speakers on either side. I had a nagging feeling that I was dumping all this money into a room that was not the fantasy picture that I had hoped for. After starting this thread and checking some details before responding to some of your postings, I found the calculator and did the numbers with a better understanding of what was possible (looking at BEF's build thread)... I realized the screen potential and I actually marked it on the wall. 64.7" vs 51" CIH (CIH vs CIW vs CIA, another great thread). I sat there looking at how stupid I had been, I mean, I said that looks good.

So, I guess this changes a few things. The beauty of group discussions!!! What the hell, by next year I'll have 3 kids in university, what's another 20k? sob

BTW When I started planning this latest design for an addition and became more serious about the actual details for a HT, I actually sacrificed the north side of the addition for the HT to get the size and put the wine cellar on the south side (so I had to buy a cellar A/C unit). Everybody and their dog came out of the wood work and wanted to be part of the design/build. I listened to what they said and made mental notes; some good and some... I came across AVS a year ago and read threads when I could. I came back 2 weeks ago and I have to say that I've learned more from YOU guys than I could have pretty much any where else. Yes, I could have hired one of the high end audio places to do the design, but as I sat in one of one store's two HT's, the salesman asked, "what do you think". My answer was that the sound sucked. He agreed and said they had done 8 so far and only 1 sounded great! When I asked another builder how he designed for acoustics, he said that he builds a room and then deals with the sound electronically. He's done two in my neighbourhood! My audio service guy, put me onto his friend who used to design speakers before the competition (bread and butter) went over seas. He is interested in helping me design speakers and tune them for my bottomless pit for income disposal.

I've asked some pretty naive questions on AVS and yet you took the time to educate me. Thank you.

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post #22 of 31 Old 01-04-2013, 05:15 AM
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Also ask yourself -> 20k hour bulb or not, how long will you really keep your projector ???
Other than the top-of-the-food-chain CRT crowd ( G90s ,Barco, etc ) of a decade ago, who keeps their PJ for more than a few years ?
The LAST thing I worry about is bulb life.
I've been a JVC-guy for a decade and after 250-300 hours I buy a new lamp anyway, or buy the newest model JVC projector.
Really, what's $400 +/- for a new lamp to maintain peak brightness/contrast ?

My latest HT room rethinking had me strongly leaning towards a Constant Area setup with 4-way masking.
Screen ratio W:H of 2:1 -> and I ideally wanted 132" x 66"
This would give me 132" x 66" for 2.35 content, and 117" x 66" for 16:9 content

I canned that idea as I only have an 8.5' ceiling and going 66" high screen compromised my speaker placement too much ( non AT screen ).
So I just ordered a 136.5" x 56" scope HiPower screen.
I was drawn to that size as from my seating it doesn't look like just a "big sized screen", it looks like a "WOW sized screen"
120" wide would probably have been ideal per "the numbers", but lacked that Wow-size-factor that the 136" wide gives
As I am currently screen-less until the above arrives, I was surprised my JVC RS65 could easily light up that wide on my painted beige wall.

I'm not going to be one of those that says the JVC is as good as the Sony 1000.
But if you don't need the added lumens of the Sony to light up a monster screen, slumming it with an RS66 is worth a consideration wink.gif
This opens up budget to toss some loot at something like a slick automated Schneider or Isco anamorphic-lens, or other goodies.
There is another thread talking about a spec for anamorphically encoded Blu-Ray

- Andy
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-04-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Also ask yourself -> 20k hour bulb or not, how long will you really keep your projector ???

I'm 4 months shy of 4 years with my current projector. Probably will have it at least 2 more years. The thing I like about LED's would be the ability to turn it on and off like a TV, with no concern about bulb strikes. That would be worth it right there !!

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post #24 of 31 Old 01-05-2013, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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The on/off was what sold me on the LED. And the "bulb" life. Hopefully, by the time I'm ready to invest, the lumens output will handle a 152" x 65" screen. There is a lot of research going on in commercial/home LED lighting to replace the CFL bulbs etc.. Otherwise, I am stuck with the reality that I will have a bulb and a UPS. But, replacing the bulb every 300 hours Andy? That's dedication! I guess $2.70/movie isn't much...

What was this about "Laser"?

The Pioneer Kuro Elite Plasma panels are amazing. They had brought out a projector just in time to get out of AV. Has anyone tried it?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim View Post

The on/off was what sold me on the LED. And the "bulb" life. Hopefully, by the time I'm ready to invest, the lumens output will handle a 152" x 65" screen. There is a lot of research going on in commercial/home LED lighting to replace the CFL bulbs etc.. Otherwise, I am stuck with the reality that I will have a bulb and a UPS. But, replacing the bulb every 300 hours Andy? That's dedication! I guess $2.70/movie isn't much...
What was this about "Laser"?
The Pioneer Kuro Elite Plasma panels are amazing. They had brought out a projector just in time to get out of AV. Has anyone tried it?

All of their projectors were rebranded JVCs.
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-05-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

The thing I like about LED's would be the ability to turn it on and off like a TV, with no concern about bulb strikes. That would be worth it right there !!

Exactly, I bought a qumi LED projector to watch HDTV on my 92" high power screen and it is just bright enough to be enjoyable and I turn it on/off frequently and have put almost 4,000 hours on it without worrying about bulb strikes. It has paid for itself by me not putting hours on my JVC for casual HDTV viewing.

Mike

The Mayans were full of sh*t!!!
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post #27 of 31 Old 01-05-2013, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Re the Pioneer Elite PFJ 1 projector.
I just talked to the dealer that I bought my elite panels from. He said the projector, yes JVC, was not worth buying. Worth about $1400 by today's standards. He couldn't sell them and finally made Pioneer buy them back.

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post #28 of 31 Old 01-06-2013, 07:00 AM
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Certainly, if one is putting on a 1000+ hours per year on their display, they have additional "usage" concerns
I have a relatively cheap Sharp 70" for everyday TV, while the RS65 is reserved for movie night, big sports games, etc

I still get a chuckle out of the "enivironmental concerns" of a Projector
A Home Theatre is an exercise in decadence biggrin.gif -> construction, furnishings & decor, equipment, and electricity to run it all

Just Jim:

In your intial post, did you say your front wall will be 11' wide ?
Probably any PJ you buy will light up a 10' wide screen in your bat-cave environment.
As you say you will still watch a lot of 16:9 material, you can get a standard-sized HDTV screen in 65" x 116" which will give you 49" x 116" for 2.35
If you are OK with one of the Da-Lite fabrics they have a somewhat "inexpensive" vertical masking system that can go 120" max.
This will give you 67" x 120" for HDTV and 51" x 120" for 2.35
Da-Lite's SKUs are for 4:3->16:9 aspect ratios, but they can custom build for 16:9->2.35 but limited to 120" wide
I was going to go this exact route but wanted more than 120" wide for 2.35, so went 136" x 56" scope screen
FYI - I have JTR T12 speakers for L-C-R (a high sensitivity pro/commercial type ) that I will tuck right under the bottom of the screen
... not sure what to do with your Mac speakers though, being so tall -> you will probably have to go to an A.T. screen ?

- Andy
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-06-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Andy, Actually 11' high and 16' wide. I had been thinking about 10-10 1/2' wide for the screen with the speakers on either side (I had heard about issues with putting the speakers behind the screen - brightness/contrast/ sound acuity - from the same salesman who's HT was "less than inspiring"). It wasn't until I saw the quality and science going into some HT's on AVS where they were putting the speakers behind, that I realized that it can't possibly be that bad. So the screen has, in theory, moved 2' forward and gone to 152"/115" x 65" for 2.35:1/16:9 CIH.

I'm guessing the high frequencies would be most affected by being behind the screen (?), but the 6' tall tweeter towers could actually hang on the wall beside the screen...this having been said, they will have to be position tested for optimal sound for music listening. The goal of this HT is to double as a music listening room with critical consideration for optimizing the audio experience in both modes. Hence the concept of two separate sound systems. Best image possible is a given - I'm planning on winning the lottery real soon (possible = budget). I've been in ONE HT (including audio shop demo HT's) that I would put into the WOW category. I want to do better. One of the two theatres in my neighbourhood that I mentioned, built by the contractor who said, "I build a box and deal with the sound electronically", is for a guy in an "internationally acclaimed band" who does "have a million dollars." Sorry, this is off topic.

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post #30 of 31 Old 01-06-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I still get a chuckle out of the "enivironmental concerns" of a Projector
A Home Theatre is an exercise in decadence biggrin.gif -> construction, furnishings & decor, equipment, and electricity to run it all

- Andy[/quote]

Decadence is Marie Antoinette building a mini village outside Versailles say that she could play "peasant girl". Anything less is bare necessities. Don't touch me! rolleyes.gif

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