JVC RS-45 vs Sony HW-50ES - which is better (at anything)? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 69 Old 03-25-2013, 10:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
Crabalocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Lot of misinformation in that thread. Like the Foot Lambert numbers of the 6010 being way higher than the Foot Lambert numbers of the 5010. Take the two projectors apart and you see they have the same internals, same layout and the same lamp. Another example, the measured gain of the XD material is 0.98 not 1.2. Now an Epson 5010 can light up a 150" 0.98 gain screen in best image mode, but not very well and not for very long if you are looking to stay in the 12FL to 16FL range. You will also be running the projector in high lamp mode, so you have more fan noise to deal with.

I hope you were not referring to my info and experience???? The OP of that tread put question marks around the projector calculator lumen output from the 6010. I don't honestly think he believed it nor does anyone reading his post. The 5010 is brighter than my 8500Ub in best mode. So the 5010 is brighter putting out more lumens than my 8500Ub.

I still run my projectors in best mode while watching movies. No one has ever complained that my picture looks dim. It is true you'll need a bulb more often than someone lighting up a 100" screen but it's a small price I"M willing to pay for that cinematic experience. This I have always stated.

I replaced my Epson bulb at 800 hours under warranty (premature bulb failure), 1200 hours (replaced under warranty) and I had one bulb that still looked plenty bright at 1800+ hours (projector issue. new projector had the China bulb again. that bulb is still in the projector and is starting to dim at 1400+ hours). That's a lot of hours without buying a single bulb; gotta love Epson's warranty! Which brings up a whole other can of worms....bulb quality control.

Don't tell me it's my screen size. Just look at last years JVC bulb issues!

Don't dismiss my experience as not qualifying because it doesn't fall within your so called acceptable/measured standards. I'm sharing my experience with my projector setup and my screen size and It looks good, more than acceptable and plenty bright. It was advice like yours that scared me into only going 130" (I'm glad I went up to 153"...awesome!). That's why I always post my experience when advice like yours shows up giving their thoughts and reasoning to others. I just share my experience and let them know it can and is being done. Your advice and experience is just as valid as mine. There are always pros and cons. Would I like to have more brightness? tell me someone who wouldn't! is it acceptable and look good? you bet your a$$ it does!

edit: since this is a JVC thread. I really like my X-55 but like SOWK, my next projector will be a DLP 3 chipper (I love the DLP look).
Crabalocker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 69 Old 03-25-2013, 12:16 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,376
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Liked: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

I hope you were not referring to my info and experience???? The OP of that tread put question marks around the projector calculator lumen output from the 6010. I don't honestly think he believed it nor does anyone reading his post. The 5010 is brighter than my 8500Ub in best mode. So the 5010 is brighter putting out more lumens than my 8500Ub.

I still run my projectors in best mode while watching movies. No one has ever complained that my picture looks dim. It is true you'll need a bulb more often than someone lighting up a 100" screen but it's a small price I"M willing to pay for that cinematic experience. This I have always stated.

I replaced my Epson bulb at 800 hours under warranty (premature bulb failure), 1200 hours (replaced under warranty) and I had one bulb that still looked plenty bright at 1800+ hours (projector issue. new projector had the China bulb again. that bulb is still in the projector and is starting to dim at 1400+ hours). That's a lot of hours without buying a single bulb; gotta love Epson's warranty! Which brings up a whole other can of worms....bulb quality control.

Don't tell me it's my screen size. Just look at last years JVC bulb issues!

Don't dismiss my experience as not qualifying because it doesn't fall within your so called acceptable/measured standards. I'm sharing my experience with my projector setup and my screen size and It looks good, more than acceptable and plenty bright. It was advice like yours that scared me into only going 130" (I'm glad I went up to 153"...awesome!). That's why I always post my experience when advice like yours shows up giving their thoughts and reasoning to others. I just share my experience and let them know it can and is being done. Your advice and experience is just as valid as mine. There are always pros and cons. Would I like to have more brightness? tell me someone who wouldn't! is it acceptable and look good? you bet your a$$ it does!

edit: since this is a JVC thread. I really like my X-55 but like SOWK, my next projector will be a DLP 3 chipper (I love the DLP look).

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative. What in my post above do you not agree with? If we use 3rd party measurements (Art at Projector Reviews) he got 630 lumens from an Epson 5010, best image mode, high lamp, mid throw and calibrated. Art gained about 10% moving to short throw. That gives you almost 700 lumens. A 150" screen is 67.32 SF. 700 lumens x 1 (screen gain) divided by 67.32 SF = 10.4 Foot Lamberts. Most would not feel that is bright enough. Now you can go to one of the brighter modes and get much more brightness, but those are the numbers you get in best image mode, using Art's measurements. In a good room, 10.4 FL could be acceptable to some people. Back with CRT projectors, many people only got 6 to 8 FL. Still it is a fair amount below industry recommended standards of 12 FL to 16 FL.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI & many more.
Klipsch, RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #63 of 69 Old 03-25-2013, 01:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
kaotikr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsbluff, NE
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Like everything else it's all up to each of us to determine what is acceptable. 10FL when new, and pry 8-9FL after the first few hundred hours would not be acceptable to me. I prefer a much brighter image and will sacrifice a few inches on the screen to do so. My viewing habits are also difference, I enjoy gaming and Sports and 8FL is just not enough for a enjoyable image for me.

Just like with audio, some people prefer it way loud and over the standard "reference level", some play it below, some people like it bright, some don't mind it dim.
kaotikr1 is offline  
post #64 of 69 Old 03-25-2013, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
pdoherty972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

tedO (or sowk), how did the sony look from the front row vs the jvc? was the pixelation worse with no e-shift at such a close seating distance to such a large screen?

I ask because I'm basing my theater build and projector choice around SOWK's theater, its the best looking theater I've seen on avs.

I want the sony for its brightness for sports with some ambient light (and its 3d) but worried that at such a close seating distance pixelation will visible.

I understand from reading reviews that the Sony 50ES using LCoS doesn't have any SDE...?
pdoherty972 is offline  
post #65 of 69 Old 03-25-2013, 02:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Crabalocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative. What in my post above do you not agree with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Lot of misinformation in that thread ..... Now an Epson 5010 can light up a 150" 0.98 gain screen in best image mode, but not very well .

I said: I hope you were not inferring that I was giving misinformation. The post you were quoted from was referring to a post I wrote in the other thread. And yes the 5010 will easily light up my 153" Seymour XD screen and do it very well! even in best mode. IMO. (153" diagonal 16x9)

Again, just my opinion: There must be, at least appears to be, a difference with 12 fl on a 100" screen and 12 fl on a 150" screen. Does the larger surface area screen give the illusion of being brighter because of the surface area projecting more light back into the room??? I'm not a physicist but can tell you only what my eye's see. My BenQ W7000 was too bright on a new bulb in the dark. I don't know for sure but it had to be around 1200 lumens?? I had to switch the bulb to econo and watch with lights on just to save my eyeballs from bleeding, it was too bright (for me. I'm sure the HP screen guys opinion would differ.) . At 900 hours on the bulb I'm now in full power bulb mode and can still watch with ambient lights on. I now use my dimmer switch to adjust the screen brightness. The pros of my setup out weigh the cons....by a large margin, IMHO.

Anyone who has ever watched on my screen have walked away impressed. I have not heard anything but positive things about the experience. Not one comment saying it looked good but seemed a bit too dim.

I'm always willing to show my room to anyone who is interested in going big, how an A/T screen looks, how a certain projector looks, what a SubMersive sounds like etc. etc. so they can see in person and help with their decision. Anyways, this is way off topic and I'm sure nobody wants to read this dribble. I was only defending what I wrote in the other thread and will continue to promote my experience and share my thoughts on going big.
Crabalocker is offline  
post #66 of 69 Old 03-25-2013, 06:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,886
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Well, even by the w7000's 1200 lumens, on your screen you're looking at an image brightness of around 17-18 ftl. Which isn't particularly bright either. It's either your eyes or room room playing tricks on you. If your room is like a bat cave that 12ftl can be perceived a lot brighter than it actually is. If not, you could just be a little light sensitive and prefer a dimmer image. I'm getting around 20 ftl and I'm loving the brightness. It doesn't seem particularly uncomfortable at that brightness and my room is almost bat-cave like.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #67 of 69 Old 03-26-2013, 01:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Crabalocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 20
What size screen? 92"? if so, then that brings me back to surface area. Does 20 fl on a 92" look different than 20 fl on a 153" screen? I'm gonna throw my ignorance on the subject out there and say it will appear much brighter on a 153" screen. Just because of the overall light being projected back into the room.

If your screen is much bigger than I don't know. I just had another buddy over and even though there was still a ton of ambient light from just being daytime, he couldn't believe how good it looked.
Crabalocker is offline  
post #68 of 69 Old 03-26-2013, 01:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SOWK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wauwatosa, WI
Posts: 3,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdoherty972 View Post

I understand from reading reviews that the Sony 50ES using LCoS doesn't have any SDE...?
The SDE is less visable on a sony SXRD display then say a non e-shift DILA, LCD, or DLP. But that does not mean there is none. I sit only 1.16 SW away so any SDE is more noticeable then most setups.
SOWK is online now  
post #69 of 69 Old 03-26-2013, 02:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,886
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

What size screen? 92"? if so, then that brings me back to surface area. Does 20 fl on a 92" look different than 20 fl on a 153" screen? I'm gonna throw my ignorance on the subject out there and say it will appear much brighter on a 153" screen. Just because of the overall light being projected back into the room.

If your screen is much bigger than I don't know. I just had another buddy over and even though there was still a ton of ambient light from just being daytime, he couldn't believe how good it looked.

No, it should look the same. The way foot lamberts are measured is by how many lumens the projectors is broadcasting over a surface area. Brightness should look the same if the foot lambert reading is the same no matter the size. That's why we tell people the foot lambert reading instead of the lumen output.

Like I said its your room or your eyes playing tricks on you. Obviously its a good trick if it looks brighter than it is.
Seegs108 is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Jvc Dla Rs45 Home Theater Projector 1080p Hdmi , Sony Vpl Hw50es 3d Projector , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 8350
Gear in this thread - 1080p by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off