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ATTENTION: MAGENTA (or any colored) STRIPE DEFECT ON THEIR JVC PROJECTOR

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#1 ·
MAGENTA (or any colored) STRIPE ON THEIR JVC PROJECTOR (RSxx or HDxxx models)


The original thread was started here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1183978/official-jvc-rs25-hd950-owners-thread/930#post_22824462 , however, I felt it would be easier for everyone to follow easier here.


So anyone with this problem won’t have to wade through dozens of irrelevant post, I'm starting this thread so that people who have, or had, a JVC projector that developed a MAGENTA (or any colored) stripe in the picture can post their information here. Whether the problem was repaired or replaced under the warranty is irrelevant.


It would be a great help to EVERYONE who has one of the affected projectors if they would take a few minutes to post their problem here. If enough people with the problem post, we’ll be able to see how wide spread the problem is and whether or not it’s a design defect or not. Naturally, like with Sony, I don’t expect JVC to admit to anything. However, if, by the information posted here, it begins to appear to be a continuing design defect, then JVC shouldn’t leave people who are out of warranty stuck with a $5,000 to $10,000 paper weight, since the cost of a replacement optical block is nearly as much as some people paid for their whole projector.

TO ANYONE WITH THE PROBLEM............


Please supply the following information below as complete as possible, as well as any other information you feel might be relevant or helpful, this way we can see if a pattern develops.


Thanks!!!


1. Build Date (if available)

2. Date first put into service?

3. Hours on projector (chassis hours) when problem started?

4. Hours on original oem bulb when problem occurred (if still being used), or hours when removed?

5. If bulb was replaced, hours on replacement bulb when problem occurred (and brand, if known)?

6. How projector is operated - Ceiling or Table mount?

7. Average room temperature where projector was operated?

7. Average power cycle (i.e., number of hours operated each time projector was turned on)?
 
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#3 ·
I know, some have already posted in the HD950 thread, however, it appears that the problem is even more widespread than I thought. I fugure it would be more useful if everyone posts information in the same place so we're able to get a better picture og how widespread the problem REALLY IS.


Thanks for your post though.
 
#4 ·
I have had two HD-950 present this issue, and I am pretty sure heat did not play much of a roll in the second unit. I ran the second unit in "high altitude" mode for most of its life and average temp was much lower as my wife wasnt using the machine to wash TV all day, so the room was kept much cooler. Also never really used "high" Lamp mode either.


I also had clean filtered 60hz A/C pumped to the unit via a Tripp Lite true sine wave UPS from day one. Never saw brown power or outages, ever. After the first one died I tried everything in my power to make the replacement last and was much worse only lasting much less than half the chassis hours... Also a nice thank you on my supposedly "new" replacement was a heavily scratched housing. That did not make me very happy either. If I did not pay heavily for an extended warranty through my retailer I would be mega pissed.

1. Build Date (if available)


Dont have this information on the first one and second one did not have this information on the projo.


2. Date first put into service?


First unit was purchased and put into service Dec of '09. Received second unit in April of '11.


3. Hours on projector (chassis hours) when problem started?


First unit was 2000 hours (Wife + mat leave + soaps = mega hours). Second unit was around 700 hours.


4. Hours on original oem bulb when problem occurred (if still being used), or hours when removed?


1st unit was all original bulb and same with second, so 2000 and 700.


5. If bulb was replaced, hours on replacement bulb when problem occurred (and brand, if known)?


Both original OEM bulbs


6. How projector is operated - Ceiling or Table mount?


Ceiling


7. Average room temperature where projector was operated?


18-20C


7. Average power cycle (i.e., number of hours operated each time projector was turned on)?[/quote]


(Edit) Unit #1 6-8 hours (Wife)

Unit #2 1.5-4 hours
 
#5 ·
Here's a re-post of my responses that I originally posted in the RS25 thread. Though I'd paste it here so they were all in the same place.


1. RS25 built in 2009 and bought and first used in January, 2010.

2. Approximately 1700 hours when the problem started.

3. This was a replacement bulb. The first one developed a flicker at 1000 hours.

4. The replacement bulb was a genuine OEM bulb.

5. Table mounted.

6. Average room temperature is 20 degrees Celsius (68 Fahrenheit) with low humidity.

7. Average number of operated hours for a single power cycle is 3.
 
#6 ·
Dal-hd350 built 09 purchased in 3/10

About 1500 hrs when problem started

This was a replacement bulb

The replacement bulb was OEM

Table mounted

Average room temp is around 65-68

I used it about 3 hours a session mostly Xbox 360 and Blu rays. Sometimes hd tv
 
#7 ·
Thanks, Turtletrax, SirJohnFalstaff and Seegs108,


Until TODAY, I just didn't realize how widespread the problem really is. After looking at some of links that Seegs108 posted and some others, it appears that a problem is showing up on the latest chassis' also. That's how the Sony problem began to unravel. First they admitted to the A2000's OB, then after denying it was also on the A2020's, it showed up on their newest A3000's. At that point, it became clear that it was definitely a design defect. And now, it's beginning to look like neither company can make a LCoS optical block that doesn't go bad. On the Sonys, it was a filter that was burning up from heat, causing a loss of blue and a shift of EVERYTHING, rendering the entire TV worthless.


On some of the pictures that were posted, it didn't appear to be the "classic" magenta (or any colored) stripe, which ISN'T VERY SUBTLE. It looked more like just a non-descript discoloration. I wish they would have posted pictures on a FULL white pattern. Sometimes, in a dirty environment or over a long period of time, any buildup of dust or dirt on the edges of that OPEN mirror design, if the edge of just one color starts becoming blocked, it can cause a discoloration like appeared in one of the pictures. Of course we should all be so lucky as to just have that problem.
Hopefully, with more posts we'll begin to see the pattern of just what's happening.


In any case, there are just to many complaints about this problem and where there's smoke.....
 
#8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707  /t/1451654/attention-magenta-or-any-colored-stripe-defect-on-their-jvc-projector#post_22825363

Thanks, Turtletrax, SirJohnFalstaff and Seegs108,


Until TODAY, I just didn't realize how widespread the problem really is. After looking at some of links that Seegs108 posted and some others, it appears that a problem is showing up on the latest chassis' also. That's how the Sony problem began to unravel. First they admitted to the A2000's OB, then after denying it was also on the A2020's, it showed up on their newest A3000's. At that point, it became clear that it was definitely a design defect. And now, it's beginning to look like neither company can make a LCoS optical block that doesn't go bad. On the Sonys, it was a filter that was burning up from heat, causing a loss of blue and a shift of EVERYTHING, rendering the entire TV worthless.


On some of the pictures that were posted, it didn't appear to be the "classic" magenta (or any colored) stripe, which ISN'T VERY SUBTLE. It looked more like just a non-descript discoloration. I wish they would have posted pictures on a FULL white pattern. Sometimes, in a dirty environment or over a long period of time, any buildup of dust or dirt on the edges of that OPEN mirror design, if the edge of just one color starts becoming blocked, it can cause a discoloration like appeared in one of the pictures. Of course we should all be so lucky as to just have that problem.
Hopefully, with more posts we'll begin to see the pattern of just what's happening.


In any case, there are just to many complaints about this problem and where there's smoke.....

It is the least we can do, and thank you for taking some of your time to help bring a brighter light to this issue with your repair knowledge.


I fully understand how elaborate pieces of hardware can fail at any time, and that is why I paid a hefty chunk of change to insure my purchase as much as I could. But, what I can't swallow whole is manufacturers just praying that the failure is after warranty. To be honest, now I am gun shy. I have the money to put into a nice rig, and explore my passion for the hobby. What I cant afford is to have a paperweight and a daily reminder that I got burned. In all of my hardware related hobbies I tend to buy as close to high end as I can at the time after my research has provided me with what my money would be best invested in, and ride that technology for a good while as I fully understand how resale works nowadays. Have a situation like I am in now, and if I don't get a new SKU replacement, I cant even really sell the replacement HD-950 for much and get out of JVC at all. After reading the substantial amount of reports about this happening, I am pondering selling the replacement if it is from the DLA-X7x line and buy a Sony or something. But from your statements it seems that LCoS just is not a road warrior of reliability.


Based on your knowledge Bruce, you are thinking it is not the LCoS panels per se, it is the interconnects? I know that the trend nowadays is that you replace rather than repair, but there has to be an economical way to repair these issues? With how many are failing there should be a market in trying to find out how. Do you think getting hands on a couple units a guy would be able to figure out a streamlined way to fix these, or is the fact they are "glued" together you are doing harm than good? If you say that the LCoS chips rarely degrade, it is just a damn shame to see them sit in attics or tossed in the bin. Also, if my HD-950 is declared "non-repairable" I wonder if they would let a guy buy back the unit and give it a shot... Hell, it would honestly be worth the shot if it was the right price.


All-in-all and unfortunate head shaker. All we can do is collect information at this point I guess.


Any and all information is greatly appreciated on my end from anybody with this issue.


Damon.
 
#9 ·
Damon,


One of the reasons I wanted to get more information was to make sure that everyone was talking about THE SAME PROBLEM. Just today alone, besides seeing that this problem is more widespread than I thought it was, it appears to run through the entire line, possibly with the exception of the “X” series. From seeing a picture from one of the links that Seegs108 posted, I have already determined that what that poster (and maybe you also) DOES NOT have the type of “colored line” that results from a bad connection to the chip that I had originally referred to. The problem that I had been talking about produces an unmistakable solid vertical line. Depending on what connections to the D’ILA chip is bad determines the thickness and color of the line. However, what is unmistakable is how solid and saturated it looks.


After seeing those pictures, the problem there is NOT electrical AT ALL. Actually, it’s the same “type” of problem that the Sony SXRD TVs suffered from. Although Sony’s problem would be easier to repair because of their OB (optical block) design. On the Sony, one of the dichroic filter’s affecting blue was getting damaged over time from heat. However, in that case it affected the color on the entire screen. Sony’s problem was probably due to using a cheap dichroic filters, where different frequencies pass or retain heat differently.


JVC’s OB design consists of the optical prism assembly (semi sealed) and outside that assembly, a set of dichroic filter mirrors that perform a dual function. They not only filter and pass only certain color frequencies, in JVC’s design (or Cannon or whoever is making it for them now) those outside filters are also used as mirrors and are used to mechanically register or align the corse color pixel alignment. The final adjustment is made with the electronic pixel shift circuitry on the projector. I know that in the older JVC “G” series projectors these dichroic filter/mirrors were made of glass. Although I don’t know whether they’re using plastic or glass on these late model units, I believe that if they were using glass, this problem wouldn’t exist. I’m not exactly sure why “heat” would help the problem, as one person claimed in his post. However, what he said JVC was doing to “fix” the problem was by shifting the position of one or more of the dichroic filter/mirrors. That is a BAD IDEA! To anyone that might want to try doing that themselves, let me point out just ONE of the problems in doing that. The filters are held in their frames with the tiniest spline key wrenches I have ever seen. Without some kind of a jig, you will go absolutely nuts trying to get the three colors aligned properly. One of the reasons that JVC claims better contrast ratio for the RS35 and pixel alignment is because the OB chip assemblies are “hand selected” (they claim) and they simply take MORE TIME aligning the mirrors. Once a projector goes to a JVC butcher shop, everything is DOWN THE DRAIN. If I were to guess, I would say that when they came out with the RSxx series and they were practically silent running, it had to result in high internal operating temperatures. I guess where cooling is concerned, there’s NO FREE LUNCH.


Bruce
 
#10 ·
If it was just the gold wire ribbons you suspected I would have given it a shot, but based on alignment issues I think I will pass
And if the issues are heat related you would think that JVC would have done more qualification of the cooling system to be able to manage over time in their process, especially if the problems have been around since the beginning of the RS and HD series. It would be easy enough to get 8000+ a year on test machines, just let them run...



The more info I get on this the more I hope I get upgraded to a new chassis from the DLA-X series. I know it is early but have there been any reports of strip issues in the new series?


Thanks again for your help Bruce.
 
#11 ·
Chiming in here. I've got an RS20 which has a blue line, not magenta, on the right side. It comes and goes, however. My projector is in my garage and the ambient temperature right now is about 35-40 degrees Fahrenheit. If it hasn't run for a while, the blue line is very prominent. However, after about 30-60mins, the line fades nearly completely.


I'm not sure if this helps anyone, but it seems that these projectors benefit from lower temperatures or possibly temperature fluctuations.
 
#12 ·
I'm bummed about my RS25--but then who wouldn't be. However as I've resigned myself to upgrading to a 2013 model, I hope this issue has been solved. I'll be watching this thread closely to see if anyone with a newer model than my RS25 has had this issue. I realize that may be wishful thinking considering perhaps the newer models just haven't run long enough for the issue to crop up yet.
 
#13 ·
For me it's not that big of an issue. I use an HTPC anyway and can simply scale the image ever so slightly down to make it unnoticeable. The only time I see it is when I'm watching TV, but even then I barely see it or care.
 
#14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff  /t/1451654/attention-magenta-or-any-colored-stripe-defect-on-their-jvc-projector#post_22828555


I'm bummed about my RS25--but then who wouldn't be. However as I've resigned myself to upgrading to a 2013 model, I hope this issue has been solved. I'll be watching this thread closely to see if anyone with a newer model than my RS25 has had this issue. I realize that may be wishful thinking considering perhaps the newer models just haven't run long enough for the issue to crop up yet.

You have a right to be bummed out! Although my RS35 doesn't have the problem....yet, whatever the exact cause is, the RS35 is JUST AS MUCH at risk as any of the other models since that part of the design is essentially the same as the other models. I WAS suprised to see posts about the problem on the new (2011) chassis'. I would have thought any problems would have been corrected. However, after the Sony SXRD fiasco, nothing surprises me anymore.



The really sad part is that, when new, the Sony SXRD TVs were terrific, as were the JVC projectors. JVC used to have their American Research and Development website ( www.jvcdig.com ) that I was able to speak to a couple of people that knew something about the projectors, however, that seems to have been taken down.
 
#15 ·
the 1st 3 posts on this thread indicate that all the complaints came from Canada...'Blame Canada, blame Canada'....lol
In all seriousness though, I do NOT have this problem (yet?) on my JVC RS20. It has over 1000 hours total use, with a replacement OEM bulb replaced at 891 hours. HERE"S TO CROSSING MY FINGERS
 
#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBMAN  /t/1451654/attention-magenta-or-any-colored-stripe-defect-on-their-jvc-projector#post_22833577


the 1st 3 posts on this thread indicate that all the complaints came from Canada...'Blame Canada, blame Canada'....lol
In all seriousness though, I do NOT have this problem (yet?) on my JVC RS20. It has over 1000 hours total use, with a replacement OEM bulb replaced at 891 hours. HERE"S TO CROSSING MY FINGERS

Yes, Canada, not the US. Since most Americans think we live in igloos and the country is a frozen wasteland, one would think you could rule out the the problem being heat related
 
#17 ·
You beat me to that joke SJF



In Canada we usually just get screwed on the price of stuff (not as bad as Australia tho).


After sending an email to JVC Canada nearly three weeks ago, I got an email today requesting the serial number. Will see what they do. Hoping they liaise with my retailer to get me an X75R.
 
#18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBMAN  /t/1451654/attention-magenta-or-any-colored-stripe-defect-on-their-jvc-projector#post_22833577


the 1st 3 posts on this thread indicate that all the complaints came from Canada...'Blame Canada, blame Canada'....lol
In all seriousness though, I do NOT have this problem (yet?) on my JVC RS20. It has over 1000 hours total use, with a replacement OEM bulb replaced at 891 hours. HERE"S TO CROSSING MY FINGERS

LOL! But all kidding aside, the problem seems to appear around an average 1500 hours and above. Although heat shouldn't be a problem in those Canadian igloos.
 
#19 ·
Well heat deffinately has some effect. When I first power on my RS25, the pink line is very intense. 5 minutes later it's a lot less intense, and about 30 minutes later it's gone. If I use the projector for a couple hours and shut if off only to start it up again a few hours later, the pink stripe is back, but not nearly as intense as when the unit hasn't been used in a day or two. If the cause is the adhesive used between panels somewhere, then the way my projector is acting seems logical. When the adhesive is cold, it separates. When it warms up, it becomes soft and sticky, perhaps pulling the panels back together. I know nothing about electronics, so I'm just guessing here. All I know is that in March I'll be purchasing and X95 and making sure to get an extended warrenty. I haven't been able to find many posts concerning problems with the top-end JVC's, so my next projector better last me a good 5 years plus or else I'm going back to Panasonics--and believe me, I don't want that.
 
#20 ·
While there's no doubt that heat affects it, I don't know what "panels" are being referred to as being cemented? It's a dicroic filter or mirror problem. I not aware that they use any cement on them though. It's not like the Canadian Balsam they used to hold lense elements, which when overheated crystalize. The filters can be either glass, plastic or mixed. I'm pretty sure this problem has nothing to do with the D'ILA panels themselves. Think of the problem like with a CRT projector and you put your hand in front of one of the lenses and the color changes from the elimination of color from that area. The only question is where is the shift occurring. The guy that said he took his projector in to, I believe he said, JVC in Denmark and they "adjusted the mirrors". It's not clear though what they were trying to "miss" by adjusting them. However, according to him, IT WASN'T FIXED anyway! It will probably wind up as some area on one of the filters being heated at different temps across the surface for "some reason". Maybe it's even some kind of dust or dirt buildup changing the air flow.


While I have no intention of removing my RS35 from the ceiling and opening it up to see what the problem is, if I do get the problem, I'll take down and open that sucker faster then you can say "screwed again".
 
#21 ·
Well, if you want to fly up to Calgary, you're more than welcome to open up my RS25 once I buy a new X95.



I do plan to pack the RS25 away, though. Just in case JVC steps-up and says they'll fix this issue even on expired warrenty models. Then I'd have it repaired and try to sell it at a very fair price.
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff  /t/1451654/attention-magenta-or-any-colored-stripe-defect-on-their-jvc-projector#post_22836771


Well, if you want to fly up to Calgary, you're more than welcome to open up my RS25 once I buy a new X95.



I do plan to pack the RS25 away, though. Just in case JVC steps-up and says they'll fix this issue even on expired warrenty models. Then I'd have it repaired and try to sell it at a very fair price.

I would, but I have end stage emphysema and besides neing pretty limited in what I can do, I can no longer go on planes, despite having protable oxygen. That's why I'm retired. Otherwise, I probably would have gotten to the bottom of this already.
 
#24 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff  /t/1451654/attention-magenta-or-any-colored-stripe-defect-on-their-jvc-projector#post_22836956


Well, if there's no movement from JVC on this by the end of the year, perhaps I'll just ship the thing down to you for an autopsy. I've still got all the original boxes and packing.

I'm just hoping to still be alive by the end of the year.



Other than NEW or anyone with additional information, I'm going to stop posting to this thread (other than to bump it if it falls back too far) so it doesn't become filled with a lot of garbage making it too large for people to read through the post with specific info about the problem.
 
#25 ·
My RS20 (manufactured Dec 2008) has magenta strip running down left side (ceiling mounted). Drove it to JVC repair in Long Beach. Cost $3500. to repair so sitting in my attic right now. Occurred 2 1/2 years after purchase at approx 2200 hours. Ran it another 600 hours w/ masking on. Recently bought modestly used RS35 (w/ 400 hours) hoping problem was fixed. Or hoping hand-picked components have a lower failure rate. Anyway - I'm running my RS35 on high-altitude mode just in case heat is a factor. Running my Theater Room a little cooler too. I'm at 1400 hours now and all is good. I can't remember reading about any RS35's that have reported this problem.


My RS20 problem kinda worked out for me as I bought the RS35 at 25 cents on the dollar and it's vastly superior to my old RS20. But we shall see (fingers crossed) when I log in more hours (and enter the danger zone).
 
#26 ·
Looks like I get to join the club.



I just started to notice the magenta line on the right side of my RS10.


The masking blocks it when I run scope and just noticed something for an NFL game last week. Watching the black and white colored Frankenweenie last night, and there it was plain as day. I had planned on adding some side masking for 16x9 and this will spur me on to do it.


Bought in March of 2009

1800 hours

Shelf mounted

67 degree average room temp

3 hour typical run time


I hope nothing else comes up...
 
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