OPTOMA HD91 FULL LED DLP full hd 2D 3D Ready end 2013 - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 01:02 PM
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I would be very satisfied if it is 98.6% accurate and done in less than a week. Just saying. smile.gif

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post #812 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 04:56 PM
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smile.gif Just saying - everybody wants a 100% accurate test and report - in 10 minutes !!

That would sure make colonoscopy's a lot more enjoyable..............
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post #813 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 05:42 PM
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It would have to be a pretty glowing review of the Optoma for me to want to ditch one of my Sharp 30k's for it.

Not having the fully motorized zoom / lens shift / focus option kind of kills the deal for me.

But I do like the 20,000 hours, and no dimming over time feature.

The main difference you would see is the color performance. it's quite a challenge to get good color gamut out of the Sharp where the HD91 was relatively easy to calibrate correctly with the built in color controls.

it is nice though to be able to just turn it on / off whenever you feel like. I still do that with the 30K. I have so many lamps, I don't care what happens to the first few.. smile.gif


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post #814 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 09:53 PM
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Zombie, thanks for posting. Can you put my mind at ease with wanting to choose a sony 50/55 over the optoma hd91or do you think the optoma is competitive? Thanks!

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post #815 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 10:05 PM
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it depends on your setup and overall viewing preferences. The Sony is going to be about 300 lumens brighter in it's best mode vs. the Optoma. The HD91 is more naturally sharp than the Sony, overall PQ is quite good for a .65 DPL. The focus is even with well defined pixels across my 142" 16:9. The Sony has better overall contrast.

at this price point I would also be looking at the 4910 as well.


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post #816 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 10:07 PM
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Is the DI smooth? From what you've seen so far, how would you say it performs subjectively compared to the DI on the Sharp XV-Z30000 or PD8130?

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post #817 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 10:12 PM
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I haven't had enough time to look. I was mainly playing around with calibration before the power went out for a few days. ice storms in our area.


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post #818 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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post #819 of 1227 Old 02-06-2014, 11:35 PM
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Thank you very much for your thoughts. Let's just hope Zombie's review has nicer things to say.

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post #820 of 1227 Old 02-07-2014, 04:25 AM
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Moving to 3D is my main reason for wanting to replace my jvcrs2 now rather than wait for affordable 4k. Is the optoma 3d much better than the sony? Did you usd the dynamic black on the optima? Is it well done or distracting?

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post #821 of 1227 Old 02-07-2014, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it depends on your setup and overall viewing preferences. The Sony is going to be about 300 lumens brighter in it's best mode vs. the Optoma. The HD91 is more naturally sharp than the Sony, overall PQ is quite good for a .65 DPL. The focus is even with well defined pixels across my 142" 16:9. The Sony has better overall contrast.

at this price point I would also be looking at the 4910 as well.

Very interesting.

I wonder how long the Sony's lamp would stay 300 lumens in front.

Steve W
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post #822 of 1227 Old 02-07-2014, 05:22 AM
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The projector in that demo appears to be using a large amount of lens shift. I'm not seeing such aggressive CA in the menu when it's closer to lens center on my HP. There is no obvious CA with real content, I watched it several hours last night looking at familiar content.

David - the 3D has no x-talk, no flicker, just like all the other 3D DLP's. The main struggle could be the 3D lumen output depending on the size of the screen / gain. I'll have a closer look at it this weekend to provide some brightness comparisons to the other popular models in this price category.

pecker - the Sony lamps for the HW50 were known to last quite a while before dimming. The main feature of the HD91 is obviously the LED light source. The contrast is better on the HW50 / Epson 5030 and most certainly better on the RS4910 so people making a decision this year will have to take all the various features into consideration.


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post #823 of 1227 Old 02-07-2014, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The projector in that demo appears to be using a large amount of lens shift. I'm not seeing such aggressive CA in the menu when it's closer to lens center on my HP. There is no obvious CA with real content, I watched it several hours last night looking at familiar content.

David - the 3D has no x-talk, no flicker, just like all the other 3D DLP's. The main struggle could be the 3D lumen output depending on the size of the screen / gain. I'll have a closer look at it this weekend to provide some brightness comparisons to the other popular models in this price category.

pecker - the Sony lamps for the HW50 were known to last quite a while before dimming. The main feature of the HD91 is obviously the LED light source. The contrast is better on the HW50 / Epson 5030 and most certainly better on the RS4910 so people making a decision this year will have to take all the various features into consideration.

I guess the question is -- how much better is the contrast on the Epson and Sony? The Epson and Sony pretty much beat all the $1,000 to $7,000 DLPs out there for contrast. What I'd be interested in is whether or not the HD91 is comparable to the Sharp or Mits for contrast. It would be nice if it was better; however, I'd be surprised. If it's not as good then I'd be looking at something else, especially when you can buy a Mits 7900 for $999.00 with glasses and emitter -- the difference in price will buy an awful lot of replacement lamps.
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post #824 of 1227 Old 02-07-2014, 08:32 AM
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So far it sounds like it might be a decent projector. We shall see.

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post #825 of 1227 Old 02-07-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The projector in that demo appears to be using a large amount of lens shift. I'm not seeing such aggressive CA in the menu when it's closer to lens center on my HP. There is no obvious CA with real content, I watched it several hours last night looking at familiar content.

David - the 3D has no x-talk, no flicker, just like all the other 3D DLP's. The main struggle could be the 3D lumen output depending on the size of the screen / gain. I'll have a closer look at it this weekend to provide some brightness comparisons to the other popular models in this price category.

pecker - the Sony lamps for the HW50 were known to last quite a while before dimming. The main feature of the HD91 is obviously the LED light source. The contrast is better on the HW50 / Epson 5030 and most certainly better on the RS4910 so people making a decision this year will have to take all the various features into consideration.

Thanks Zombie.

I have a 100" HiPower 2.8 screen and I'll be shelf-mounting the PJ right behind the sofa slightly above head-height so I should be getting the max brightness possible out of whatever projector I end up getting.

In particular, I'd like to know your toughts comparing the HD91 to the Sony 50ES. I wondering if with the dynamic black on if the HD91 performs well on black level or if it's still challenged significantly (or if the dynamic black feature just isn't ready for "prime time").

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post #826 of 1227 Old 02-07-2014, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kraine View Post

I put some comments and pics about the Optoma HD91 here :

http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.projection-homecinema.fr%2F2014%2F02%2F06%2Fise-amsterdam-2014-avec-pjhc-fr-recapitulatif-du-salon%2F

This model at ISE shows chromatic aberration :


Any comparisons to the Vivitek h9080fd? I would expect it's pretty close.
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The Vivitek was a wonderful projector. Had about 95% of what the Planar PD8150 (LS-5) had and that's be expected as they're basically the same projector. I still think the H9080FD will be quite a step in overall performance. The larger DMD for higher native and dynamic contrast, a nicer lens, top notch video processing on board, uber high 850:1 ANSI contrast ect. It would be hard for this machine at such a cheaper price to offer a similar experience. It will give it a run for it's money as most lower end DLP machines do but I don't think it will be "pretty close". I think the biggest difference will be contrast performance and I'm not even talking about how well the DI is implemented. From all reports it seems that even with the DI engaged it doesn't have black levels anywhere near what the H9080FD has. The Vivitek has a measured dynamic on/off contrast ratio of ~9000:1. The best measurements I've seen so far for this unit are less than half of that. Considering this unit is brighter that means it's black level is going to be a big step behind. We all know contrast is one of the most important parts of an enjoyable viewing experience and I think this will this units achilles heel. It may do well with subjective sharpness, brightness, 3D, placement flexibility, but those features are abundant from other DLP units at far cheaper price points. The contrast performance NEEDS to be good to justify it's cost at this price. This is why I'm curious to hear what Zombie has to say about it versus the Sharp XV-Z30000 and PD8130 (LS-3) that he has. Those two units can be bought for around the same price and cheaper in certain situations. It will need to match those two or come close to justify the price in my opinion.

We need to know how it fares in overall contrast performance and then how it's DI performs in comparison to those two units. The Sharp and Planar have non-intrusive, 100% of the time usable DI's and this unit needs just that to roll with the big boys. So Zombie, does it have what it takes to roll with the big boys? wink.gif

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post #828 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 03:38 AM
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The h9080fd is 3 times the price and the sharp and planar are bulb projectors so none are direct competitors with each other. Its good to know how they look in comparison to each other but that's as far as it goes. Your clearly looking to put them all in some kind of pecking order but they all occupy different price points and different feature sets. For example, some people may relegate single chip bulb dlp straight to the scrapheap due to rainbow artifacts.
As you say, contrast is very important but if we say that its the be all and end all, then we may as well relegate all of the above to the scrap heap and buy Jvc's.
I'm looking forward to more of Zombies views and I recommend people who want to put projectors into a pecking order to use their own preferences and set up requirements rather than Seegs generic pecking order thats really only applicable to his own personal views.
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post #829 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I got my H9080 for less then 3000€ this week so the price difference is no more there but the picture quality is still in favor of the Vivitek (sharpness and contrast).
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Here's another review of the Optoma HD91:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/optoma-hd91_Projector_review

7/10 for 3D? 8/10 for 2D. Not as enthusiastic as the AVForums review.
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post #831 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's another review of the Optoma HD91:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/optoma-hd91_Projector_review

7/10 for 3D? 8/10 for 2D. Not as enthusiastic as the AVForums review.

That is because the AVForums review was overenthusiastic an is not a correct wiev of this projector.smile.gif I also think trustedreviews is to kind in their review of this projector.

And yes, I have seen it and to me it is not as good as the JVC and Sony in this pricerange.

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post #832 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's another review of the Optoma HD91:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/optoma-hd91_Projector_review

7/10 for 3D? 8/10 for 2D. Not as enthusiastic as the AVForums review.

Thanks for the link. The pros and cons aligns exactly with my own impression and i would only use it for 2D due to the brightness limit (if not using HP perfectly aligned or smaller sized ones). Other than that, colours,motion handling,sharpness and details are great.

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post #833 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's another review of the Optoma HD91:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/optoma-hd91_Projector_review

7/10 for 3D? 8/10 for 2D. Not as enthusiastic as the AVForums review.

The 7/10 is mainly brightness in 3D as it performs as well as any other 3D DLP for flicker and x-talk. This could reserve this model to HP screens (or other high gain models) or a smaller low gain screen. I'll compare it later tonight to the 30K for some reference.

they mention it didn't come with an emitter or glasses but the HD91 I received has the latest Optoma RF transmitter + 1 pair of the current glasses.


I agree with his pros - it's nice and sharp with very good motion handling. CMD also works well in 2D and 3D without being overly aggressive. It also has very good color once calibrated, you can get it to a clean D65 / R709 without too much effort. Saturation tracking performs well. I don't think you can expect more than 600 lumens in 'best' mode once calibrated.

The caveat could be the contrast / DI which I am taking a good look at later tonight. During reviews of the other LED projectors, people have mentioned noticing the change in brightness to compensate for a lack of a physical iris. My first impression is that I am seeing this as well. I have to see what the difference is between the 3 different settings and also see how it looks compared to the 30K and Planar, both have a good iris imo.

I think the main appeal of this projector will be the 'set it and forget it' ability to just turn it on / off like a TV. I have done this a number of times for quick 15 minute viewing sessions then shut it down. It idles down pretty quick too, fan is off in a few second after it goes dark.


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post #834 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post

The h9080fd is 3 times the price and the sharp and planar are bulb projectors so none are direct competitors with each other. Its good to know how they look in comparison to each other but that's as far as it goes. Your clearly looking to put them all in some kind of pecking order but they all occupy different price points and different feature sets. For example, some people may relegate single chip bulb dlp straight to the scrapheap due to rainbow artifacts.
As you say, contrast is very important but if we say that its the be all and end all, then we may as well relegate all of the above to the scrap heap and buy Jvc's.
I'm looking forward to more of Zombies views and I recommend people who want to put projectors into a pecking order to use their own preferences and set up requirements rather than Seegs generic pecking order thats really only applicable to his own personal views.

Which direct competitors should it be compared it to? There's nothing else like it in it's price point and because someone asked about this and the Vivitek I thought I would comment seeing how I've owned it. Krane has already commented and backed exactly what I said. Contrast is not the end all be all deciding factor but it is one of the most important things and if this projector can't cut it then why spend the premium when there are several cheaper options out there? I don't have some specific pecking order. I perfectly understand that there are projectors that should be used per situation but in an ideal room and on normal screen sizes the ones I've mentioned are fantastic and if this Optoma wants to make that list it's going to need to perform as well.

Hmm best mode is only around 600 lumens. This is right around where all the first generation LED projectors were. It seems none of these new LED projectors claiming 1000 lumens still only reach ~600 lumens like first generation LEDs.

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post #835 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 12:43 PM
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From the TrustedReview's article:
Quote:
The problem that most undermines the TV’s colour and detail strengths is contrast. Or to be more precise, black level response. Dark scenes tend to look rather greyed over in areas where they should look black, denying them conviction and leading to a rather hollow look to the darkest areas.

It’s good to see colours retaining their natural tones despite the lack of black level – though sadly this is only the case if you avoid the dynamic backlight settings. For all three of the DynamicBlack modes provided shift colour tones as well as just reducing the image’s brightness to boost black level response. This means that pictures keep changing their appearance so much as the DynamicBlack systems do their thing that the modes are essentially impossible to use if, like us, you prefer to get completely lost in an image rather than being regularly distracted by obvious signs of a display’s technology at work.

In short, the over-obvious workings of the DynamicBlack modes look like a classic case of a display device having to work too hard to overcome fundamental black level limitations.

This is especially sad in the HD91’s case since the only time we managed to get a convincing black performance out of the projector was when using a DynamicBlack setting. Just using the stable LED brightness adjustment doesn’t get rid of the greyness in dark areas as successfully unless you ramp it down so low that the picture starts to feel rather dull and flat overall.

This ties in kind of with our other main gripe about the HD91’s images. Namely that contrary to expectations they don’t look very bright – certainly after calibration to achieve a decent black level performance.
Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/optoma-hd91_Projector_review_picture-quality_Page-2#EBG6TfbHjmuFugqo.99

Looks like one should avoid the DI on this model. I wonder if Zombie is seeing the same thing.

Wow and 102ms of input lag. Not a serious contender for a gamer either.

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post #836 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 12:46 PM
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If the Vivitek H9080FD has noticeably better contrast than the HD91 even though it's several years newer, I'd say that's disappointing.

Personally even though the contrast is good for a DLP machine I find it's the weakest point of the Vivitek H9080. That's not a huge condemnation since the Vivitek excels on so many levels. not to mention I'm still using my H9080FD pretty much out of the box for now with no changes to color, brightness, contrast etc settings. Increasing contrast started crushing blacks so I reset the settings. But I'm sure more time with the settings not to mention a calibration could improve contrast nicely. Still it's the only aspect of the video performance I think could be improved on some material. Don't think I'd be happy with noticeably worse contrast.
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post #837 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

From the TrustedReview's article:
Looks like one should avoid the DI on this model. I wonder if Zombie is seeing the same thing.

can you refresh my memory of the comparison of the 9080 and the 8150 iris? Cine4home listed the contrast on the 9080 @ 2800:1. Was the iris mode '1' which seems to be least aggressive, noticeable?

I only looked at the first iris setting on the HD91 and can see subtle changes in brightness during transitions. I recall reading similar comments on reviews of the Runco 750.


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post #838 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

can you refresh my memory of the comparison of the 9080 and the 8150 iris? Cine4home listed the contrast on the 9080 @ 2800:1. Was the iris mode '1' which seems to be least aggressive, noticeable?

I only looked at the first iris setting on the HD91 and can see subtle changes in brightness during transitions. I recall reading similar comments on reviews of the Runco 750.

Yes mode 1 was what I was using. Cine4home lists 2800:1 native contrast and in it's first DI mode it's 10500:1. This is roughly what the PD8150 was getting. Side-by-side comparison showed that the black level of the PD8150 was just a tad deeper but the DI's overall movement was smoother and less noticeable. The Vivitek doesn't have a "bad" DI but it is not as refined as the Planar's. Personally I would still enable mode 1 on the Vivitek for use all the time, but it wasn't on that same almost completely invisible level that the Planar was on. I would classify it as a good implementation that could of use a little more work to get on the same level as the ones from Planar/Sony/Sim2. It wasn't a distraction that I thought needed to be turned off like many of the other DI's out their that I've seen. Cine4home said "In the first stage, the adaptive light control is largely reliable, in modes 2 and "Infinity" but provoked artifacts are too large." and I agree, mode 1 was largely reliable in it's action and implementation. Occasionally noticeable, maybe visible once every few minutes, but not on a distracting level.

I picked up a Mitsubishi HC7900DW. I've seen a lot of claims that it's new optical path and reworked DI has a bunch of improvements and that the DI's working is now invisible. For only $799 this could be one heck of a 3D only projector. Heck , I bet it will give this projector a run for it's money in both 2D and 3D. For that price you could buy 5 bulbs and have it be less than the price of this projector. $799 is a steal. Newegg and B&H Photo has these at that price for those interested.

I finally checked out 3D on my X90 last night. At 80 hours there's already quite a bit of ghosting. Not horrible 3D performance, but it wasn't as good as what I saw on my old X55R.

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post #839 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 01:54 PM
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Which direct competitors should it be compared it to? There's nothing else like it in it's price point and because someone asked about this and the Vivitek I thought I would comment seeing how I've owned it. Krane has already commented and backed exactly what I said. Contrast is not the end all be all deciding factor but it is one of the most important things and if this projector can't cut it then why spend the premium when there are several cheaper options out there? I don't have some specific pecking order. I perfectly understand that there are projectors that should be used per situation but in an ideal room and on normal screen sizes the ones I've mentioned are fantastic and if this Optoma wants to make that list it's going to need to perform as well.

Hmm best mode is only around 600 lumens. This is right around where all the first generation LED projectors were. It seems none of these new LED projectors claiming 1000 lumens still only reach ~600 lumens like first generation LEDs.

I think even the DPI 1000 get barely over 700 lumens, which isn't much more than the other clones. The PQ is very good at least.
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post #840 of 1227 Old 02-08-2014, 02:00 PM
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The 7/10 is mainly brightness in 3D as it performs as well as any other 3D DLP for flicker and x-talk. This could reserve this model to HP screens (or other high gain models) or a smaller low gain screen. I'll compare it later tonight to the 30K for some reference.

they mention it didn't come with an emitter or glasses but the HD91 I received has the latest Optoma RF transmitter + 1 pair of the current glasses.


I agree with his pros - it's nice and sharp with very good motion handling. CMD also works well in 2D and 3D without being overly aggressive. It also has very good color once calibrated, you can get it to a clean D65 / R709 without too much effort. Saturation tracking performs well. I don't think you can expect more than 600 lumens in 'best' mode once calibrated.

The caveat could be the contrast / DI which I am taking a good look at later tonight. During reviews of the other LED projectors, people have mentioned noticing the change in brightness to compensate for a lack of a physical iris. My first impression is that I am seeing this as well. I have to see what the difference is between the 3 different settings and also see how it looks compared to the 30K and Planar, both have a good iris imo.

I think the main appeal of this projector will be the 'set it and forget it' ability to just turn it on / off like a TV. I have done this a number of times for quick 15 minute viewing sessions then shut it down. It idles down pretty quick too, fan is off in a few second after it goes dark.

When I got my LED projector, I was excited to have something to turn on and off without worrying about bulbs. However, I rarely use it they way. I turn it on probably once a day. I don't even watch it that much either. I do have 3 projectors, so I use the others too. I am sure others could take advantage of the no bulbs a lot better than me
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