OPTOMA HD91 FULL LED DLP full hd 2D 3D Ready end 2013 - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1240 Old 02-18-2014, 09:09 PM
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Supposedly the Phatlight LED modules can be run in an "overdrive" mode to produce close to 1000 measured lumens. This most likely kills the huge life span advantage the light source has over the UHP lamp based units which is probably why were not seeing any company run them in this mode. Also, bigger consideration would be needed for cooling the LEDs to run them in that mode and that would drive the cost of the unit up. It seems lasers, while more complex, would actually be a better solution for single chip DLPs.

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post #902 of 1240 Old 02-18-2014, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Liberator View Post


What I find strange is that I don't hear a lot about the HD90. I'm more interested in getting an HD90 and placing it as close as it will allow me to my 120" screen.

Will the HD90 be released later???
Why is there no official mention of it? I thought they would be released at the same time???

I asked audiogeneral and they replied:
Quote:
The HD90 was the preview version of the HD91 and was only sold in the far east.
We will never get the HD90.

This doesnt match anything I've heard thus far regarding the HD90 unless those all repeated the same inaccurate info.
So which is true? Is the HD90 the short-throw version of the HD91 or a preview version as these guys claim???

Either way,.. I'd want the short throw version,.. whichever one that is.
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post #903 of 1240 Old 02-19-2014, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by crabarts231 View Post

But 3chip is much easier than single chip, just put the colorfilter in front of each panel, then they get the RGB color. That's how Sony, JVC did for their projector with bulb now. Laser for those 3 panel projector is simply the bulb replacement.

Not really, you need a light source that includes significant output at the proper wavelengths for Red/Green/Blue for that to work, LEDs and Lasers don't do that, they are very pure light sources (ie only output very close to one frequency). This is why the laser projectors that use a wheel use a wheel with phosphors on it to produce the right color. IIRC the Sony laser projector uses a blue laser and then a phosphor wheel to produce green and red. It would likely actually be harder to use a single laser in a 3chip design than 3 lasers of the correct starting colors.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #904 of 1240 Old 02-19-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator View Post

I asked audiogeneral and they replied:
This doesnt match anything I've heard thus far regarding the HD90 unless those all repeated the same inaccurate info.
So which is true? Is the HD90 the short-throw version of the HD91 or a preview version as these guys claim???

Either way,.. I'd want the short throw version,.. whichever one that is.

Hi,

official information about the HD90 are available on Optoma Taiwan website :

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=fr&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.optoma.com.tw/product/ProductDetail.aspx%3FID%3D209%26Category%3DHome&usg=ALkJrhhAH6zHBBYLSsCxkQ_D4EyngP71Rg

It's the short version of the HD91 (with more brightness : 1 200 lumens against 1000 lumens) :

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=fr&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.optoma.com.tw/product/ProductDetail.aspx%3FID%3D210%26Category%3DHome&usg=ALkJrhhDsKKPyAA4ALAixQedJdaNgcSzkw



http://www.optoma.com.tw/product/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=210&Category=Home&Type=Spec

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=fr&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.optoma.com.tw/product/ProductDetail.aspx%3FID%3D209%26Category%3DHome%26Type%3DSpec&usg=ALkJrhj7ntpVXrOoSGoi0_2ubCpXFWSDIQ
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post #905 of 1240 Old 02-19-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Not really, you need a light source that includes significant output at the proper wavelengths for Red/Green/Blue for that to work, LEDs and Lasers don't do that, they are very pure light sources (ie only output very close to one frequency). This is why the laser projectors that use a wheel use a wheel with phosphors on it to produce the right color. IIRC the Sony laser projector uses a blue laser and then a phosphor wheel to produce green and red. It would likely actually be harder to use a single laser in a 3chip design than 3 lasers of the correct starting colors.
Good lesson to me, thanks stanger89..
Kind of off topic, I still want to know the full review from zombie, especially the 3 dynamic light system, which one is the best choice.
I will get my HD 91 in April, actually the projector already arrived, but I am not home yet, till April.......
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post #906 of 1240 Old 02-19-2014, 10:10 AM
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I would use Dynamic 1 or 2, 3 compresses too much in low APL scenes.

I'll do more observing with 1 or 2 to see which one I prefer.
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post #907 of 1240 Old 02-19-2014, 10:39 AM
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IMO, laser is not the cure of single panel DLP, but those 3 panel projectors such as SXRD, DILA. The laser for single panel DLP still require color wheel, that makes the old problem RBE back again. LED is the solution for single panel DLP, but better with optical IRIS to instead the dynamic light output.
3 panel pals don't need the color wheel, the laser is the perfect solution for them IMHO.
I hope this year CEDIA, really hop to see JVC with the laser light source and more than 1500lum output that last more than 20000hours. Then we can clamp the iris down to show the true power of JVC.

I look forward to seeing Digital Projection's new laser projector - maybe at Cedia this year !
Quote:
For me, I can't get along with the motion handling in LCD and LCD-based technologies. So it has to be DLP.

You might be surprised how good motion looks on the new JVC's. I owned nothing but DLP since 2002 ( still do in fact ) and I thought motion looked great on the RS4910 ( and RS57 ) I demo'd in my theater a couple of weeks ago.

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post #908 of 1240 Old 02-19-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Thebes View Post

It's the short version of the HD91 (with more brightness : 1 200 lumens against 1000 lumens)

Thanks for confirming, that's what I thought as well.

Now the question remains, when will the HD90 be available? All info/reviews I see appearing only mention the HD91
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post #909 of 1240 Old 02-19-2014, 06:19 PM
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3-chip has a much more complex and expensive optical layout, far overshadowing the complexity of hybrid light sources, which is why they do it that way.

Noah
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post #910 of 1240 Old 02-20-2014, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I look forward to seeing Digital Projection's new laser projector - maybe at Cedia this year !
You might be surprised how good motion looks on the new JVC's. I owned nothing but DLP since 2002 ( still do in fact ) and I thought motion looked great on the RS4910 ( and RS57 ) I demo'd in my theater a couple of weeks ago.
I really hope that JVC could apply Laser for their new generation in this September`s CEDIA, I sold my X70 then replaced by the HD91 is to wait this year`s new model. I was so anxious for X700 now.......
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post #911 of 1240 Old 02-20-2014, 07:03 AM
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You should hope for something more realistic. Cedia is only 7 months away. JVC consumer laser is not going to happen in seven months.

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post #912 of 1240 Old 02-20-2014, 07:17 AM
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You should hope for something more realistic. Cedia is only 7 months away. JVC consumer laser is not going to happen in seven months.

Next you are going to tell them the Easter Bunny is not real. Don't shatter all their dreams. smile.gif










I agree with you. smile.gif

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You guys are cruel. JVC could have a 4K laser projector at Cedia. Of course if they do it will be $ 80K. Bleeding edge = bleeding wallet.

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post #914 of 1240 Old 02-20-2014, 12:08 PM
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You guys are cruel. JVC could have a 4K laser projector at Cedia. Of course if they do it will be $ 80K. Bleeding edge = bleeding wallet.

Bleeding, that is full on hemorrhaging. biggrin.gif

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post #915 of 1240 Old 02-20-2014, 01:16 PM
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Depends on your tax bracket Mike. eek.gif

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post #916 of 1240 Old 02-20-2014, 04:58 PM
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Easter bunny? Tax brackets? E-shift 4. A better chip? A smarter iris? Ok. Ok. JVC is Santa Claus. And AV Science sales guys are his elves. And we know who Mrs. Claus is, don't we boys? (in joke).
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post #917 of 1240 Old 02-20-2014, 07:25 PM
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. Thanks zombie, I have some question about the dynamic lighting system of HD91:
HD91 also have the manual lighting control between 100%~50%. If I set the light output manually to 70%, then I switch to dynamic 2 which is 100%~5% dynamically. The manual setting will keep that means the HD91 will consider my 70% manual seeting as 100% in dynamic 2, or once I switch to dynamic 2, the light output going back to 100%?
. How about the performance of dynamic lighting system of HD91, really like those review suggested to switch it off, if so there is nothing different from other DLP projectors except LED.
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post #918 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 03:06 AM
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I had so high hopes for this projector. If it only had a well implemented real iris in the optical path! I wonder if color dithering is due to the limitations of DC3, simply not being fast enough to keep up with led switching. Back in the days we opted for the Sanyo z2000 because we couldn't tolerate rainbows, but have always respected the strong points of single chip DLP projectors. If only there had been a steady development of Darkchips all along, we would have better than DC4 DLP by now. All these concerns regarding the HD91 IMHO are stemming from the fact that real DLP advancements came to a halt around 2007. With this said I'm eagerly looking forward to detailed inspections from Zombie and other respected members.
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post #919 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 05:41 AM
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A video showing the OOTB performance of the HD91. Colors and contrast /black level, with DI disabled and taken with an iphone, looks pretty good.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMhHvzPE2g
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post #920 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 06:07 AM
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That looks terrible, as I would expect a "screenvideo" shot with an iPhone to look.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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The way the Optoma HD91 is being use in that video he could have bought a different projector for a lot less and got the same performance. There are plenty of other projectors for thousands less offer accurate color with a sharp image and average amount of native DLP contrast. If I was spending $4000 I'd want my money's worth and that means I'd want to use many of the video processing features included. That means a solid DI, solid FI, solid sharpness/contrast enhancement, ect. Premium priced projectors should offer premium performance. Is that too much to ask or hope for?

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post #922 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 07:07 AM
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Yes. What an idiotic question. smile.gif

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post #923 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

That looks terrible, as I would expect a "screenvideo" shot with an iPhone to look.

This should be better

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_GJEHVMp-c
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post #924 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 08:05 AM
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Looks rather flat and sort of icky looking, but that's probably got something to do with the TN LCD panel I'm looking at it on.

In case anyone missed what I'm getting at:

You can't tell anything about how a projector looks from a screenshot or screen video.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #925 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 08:45 AM
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Video mentions no lens shift but Optoma says it does???
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Looks rather flat and sort of icky looking, but that's probably got something to do with the TN LCD panel I'm looking at it on.

In case anyone missed what I'm getting at:

You can't tell anything about how a projector looks from a screenshot or screen video.

I agree; however, it does give an indication of the views of the person making the comments concerning the projector. He appears to have some experience with home theatre and his impressions are probably credible.

We don't have much else to go on as we await Zombie's review. The video review does give me some hope that this projector may be of value. There were no comments on 3D and I would have though that this would be a strong selling feature since it is DLP + LED. The thing that worries me is that those that have seen this projector in action have such varying impressions of black level and contrast ranging from "mediocre" to very good. This is a little disconcerting. When it comes to JVC and contrast and black level everyone who has viewed these particular projectors seems to be on the same page.
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A AVForms video review clearly states that the HD91 has NO LENS SHIFT! It is my understanding that it does have lens shift and I think Zombie mentioned that the lens shift is located under the front of the projector. If it does have lens shift then what does this say about the AVForums video review -- claiming it doesn't have lens shift when it does is a major oversight IMO. In the link below the HD91 is noted as having lens shift.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD91.htm
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post #928 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 09:20 AM
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if anyone is genuinely interested in this model, send me a PM to discuss and i'll provide details on my observations compared to other projectors I have. This feels like a public lynching that I'm not interested in getting involved in. if some folks want to believe it looks like a business projector, keep those thoughts going.. smile.gif


trans_lux - it does have lens shift, horizontal and vertical. It can be placed dead center on an HP screen or adjust for a ceiling mount as well.


ps. Keep in mind the Planar 8130/8150 (Runco LS3/LS5) have relatively 'low' native contrast @ less than 3K:1 and dynamic @ 10-15K respectively, yet it still has great 2D PQ. It just can't hang with the JVC's in low APL scenes. We need to keep contrast expectations of these DLP's in this price range in check. The Sharp 30K and HC8000 aren't anything to write home about either in the contrast range, yet they both have their own unique strengths.
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post #929 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

if anyone is genuinely interested in this model, send me a PM to discuss and i'll provide details on my observations compared to other projectors I have. This feels like a public lynching that I'm not interested in getting involved in. if some folks want to believe it looks like a business projector, keep those thoughts going.. smile.gif

Just post your thoughts, I think all here respect your opinion. I think most of the "lynching" comes from the early on over-excitement and unrealistic expectations. Early on there was the sense that people thought this was going to have $10k+ (if not $20k+) performance for an Optoma pricetag, not $2k-3k performance with an "LED premium" on the pricetag
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ps. Keep in mind the Planar 8130/8150 (Runco LS3/LS5) have relatively 'low' native contrast @ less than 3K:1 and dynamic @ 10-15K respectively, yet it still has great 2D PQ. It just can't hang with the JVC's in low APL scenes. We need to keep contrast expectations of these DLP's in this price range in check. The Sharp 30K and HC8000 aren't anything to write home about either in the contrast range, yet they both have their own unique strengths.

But the Planar/Runco have very, very good iris, so that 10-15k is the "practical" contrast on those. If the Optoma has a good dynamic lighting implementation, then that would be great news, though if it's not usable, that's a different story.
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post #930 of 1240 Old 02-21-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
ps. Keep in mind the Planar 8130/8150 (Runco LS3/LS5) have relatively 'low' native contrast @ less than 3K:1 and dynamic @ 10-15K respectively, yet it still has great 2D PQ. It just can't hang with the JVC's in low APL scenes. We need to keep contrast expectations of these DLP's in this price range in check. The Sharp 30K and HC8000 aren't anything to write home about either in the contrast range, yet they both have their own unique strengths.

My Lumis doesn't have the contrast of a JVC either. Still throws an outstanding picture. If one has a room with white walls and ceiling, and likes to watch with some lights on, lower contrast won't make that much difference.

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