OPTOMA HD91 FULL LED DLP full hd 2D 3D Ready end 2013 - Page 36 - AVS Forum
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post #1051 of 1227 Old 03-22-2014, 07:37 PM
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That's fantastic. Good for you.
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post #1052 of 1227 Old 03-22-2014, 07:43 PM
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"It says little about the actual in person picture quality a projector has."

 

Really? :(

 

Do you want to see an HD90 in person?

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post #1053 of 1227 Old 03-22-2014, 07:49 PM
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post #1054 of 1227 Old 03-22-2014, 07:59 PM
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Good, because no one in the USA is able to see it. Because it's not being released in the USA, that video is all we've got, for the time being.

 

I think it holds up pretty well to that 2000 lumen projector and I was hoping that Liberator might also find the comparison interesting.

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post #1055 of 1227 Old 03-22-2014, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfan View Post

Good, because no one in the USA is able to see it. Because it's not being released in the USA, that video is all we've got, for the time being.

I think it holds up pretty well to that 2000 lumen projector and I was hoping that Liberator might also find the comparison interesting.

I still don't don't understand why you think that video is "all we've got"? From that video what can you say about it's picture quality? All you saw is 10 seconds of an HD25 being shakingly moved next to the HD90's image. I don't care what anyone says, you can't judge picture quality through your PC monitor while watching a youtube video. This would be like watching youtube videos of different speakers and judging sound quality from the videos. As I previously said, the HD25's image looks brighter and definitely needs a calibration. You won't be able to see sharpness, contrast, black level, accurate color, actual brightness, and several other visual aspects only witnessed in person when comparing two projectors. That video does go through many of the user menus, so if someone was interested in those I suppose the video is useful.
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post #1056 of 1227 Old 03-23-2014, 03:48 AM
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Seegs108 actually wrote: "You won't be able to see sharpness, contrast, black level, accurate color, actual brightness, and several other visual aspects only witnessed in person when comparing two projectors" (in a youtube video)

 

 "Gee, Professor, that's really interesting!" :rolleyes:

 

Well, in the meantime, I'll continue to post anything on these forums that I think might be of even (some) passing interest. Especially on a unit where there's been a dearth of information.

 

Thank-you so much for your concern.

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post #1057 of 1227 Old 03-23-2014, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solfan View Post

Seegs108 actually wrote: "You won't be able to see sharpness, contrast, black level, accurate color, actual brightness, and several other visual aspects only witnessed in person when comparing two projectors" (in a youtube video)

 "Gee, Professor, that's really interesting!" rolleyes.gif

Well, in the meantime, I'll continue to post anything on these forums that I think might be of even (some) passing interest. Especially on a unit where there's been a dearth of information.

Thank-you so much for your concern.

What do you mean I "actually wrote"? I didn't change it. For those looking to see a video for the HD91 that's actually informative check out AVForums' review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_GJEHVMp-c

The only error they make is that they state the Optoma doesn't have lens shift, when in fact it does.
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post #1058 of 1227 Old 03-23-2014, 04:27 PM
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Are you telling me what to post on these forums?

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post #1059 of 1227 Old 03-24-2014, 04:32 PM
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Hello, all.

I thought I'd try to bring us back on track and post some of the latest information on HD91 and availability here in the USA.

I just spoke with Optoma USA sales, and Their maximum advertised price (MAP) on the unit is $3,999, so I'd expect to see this priced fairly reasonably. This is the only LED-lit projector in the Home Theater category for Optoma at this time. This is a replacement for the discontinued HD8300.

Based on the conversation, Optoma USA received a limited supply for domestic sale. Thus, they gave AVAD the sales exclusive at this time. They expect to have more supply in April, and they hope to open up wider sales channels at that point. When asked if they expect to see Amazon.com availability, the reply was, "we hope not." They went further to explain this unit is meant for the higher-end home market (professional installations, etc.).

What's curious about their current market strategy is that you'll find this model listed as the third available unit under the Home Theater category of their website. It seems to be dressed-up and sold just as the HD25e right next to it. If this wasn't meant for general consumers, then it's a bit misleading. I think this is a case of the left hand not speaking to the right. Being this is the first and only LED-based system for Optoma, I am guessing the marketing department is getting ahead of sales and trying to address the consumer demand for LED options before they're ready for actually delivering product.

That said: I openly wonder when the next generation LED unit will be available. This was announced in Summer 2013 for delivery at the end of that year. It might not pay to be an early adopter here, but it's a damn cool unit from what I've been able to see online.

Here's to LED becoming the standard!

- Dave
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post #1060 of 1227 Old 03-24-2014, 04:36 PM
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AVScience can get their hands on them too. Zombie has already received a unit from them. This should give forum members based in the US another option to purchase from.
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post #1061 of 1227 Old 03-24-2014, 04:42 PM
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Sorry Mister Liberator, but like you, i would like to know if we can trust in this site. I has been tried to track these web site using like every body Google, its looks like quite serious site but not references. The only thing that I am sure, is to prefer to purchase the HD90 model rather than the HD91. For a moment I, like others friends , bombing by emails :-D   the Optoma s web site in Europe in order to make some kind of pressure.. hehe Market pressure... or where ever that means...

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post #1062 of 1227 Old 03-24-2014, 04:57 PM
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I'm still wondering if this LED projector will permanently force retirement on our beloved VP11.

 

I think it probably will, even though we are almost never bothered by it's once-in-a-blue-moon rainbows.

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post #1063 of 1227 Old 03-24-2014, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
AVScience can get their hands on them too. Zombie has already received a unit from them. This should give forum members based in the US another option to purchase from.

We have them in stock in fact !! smile.gif

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post #1064 of 1227 Old 03-24-2014, 10:15 PM
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Some quick background.

Several years ago I had the opportunity to have an extended look at the 1st gen LED DLP projectors.
The Runco 750, DPI M-Vision Cine LED DLP - both from Delta and virtually identical-and the SIM2 Micro-SIM2 told me not from Delta?

The technology was exciting and interesting as it was really one of the truly new innovations for projectors in some time.
It solved for me the RBE-rainbow effect-of single chip DLP.
The promise of no image degradation over time and nearly infinite life of illumination was very appealing.
My first reaction was fairly positive.
They initially appeared brighter than the published specs from the manufactures
However after some extended viewing and some back to back comparisons with other projectors in the same price range they looked dim.
Measurements provided proof that they in fact lacked enough usable light output for the screen size and material-10'.5 diag 16:9 StudioTek130-we were using.
Note: I looked everywhere for my reports but could not find them. Not sure if they would even be of value as the meter I was using did not have tables for LED DLP. If I do I'll update the post.

Overall they produced a pleasing image in a dark light controlled room on a modest screen size.
Ultimately I concluded that due to the low light output they had limited applications and were not yet ready for home theater use.
We did install several of the DPI projectors for Microsoft in rear screen application using a smallish piece of StarGlas 100 for a high hour use systems.
They worked ok and were rock solid, but were replaced with a laser driven Sonys.
I looked forward to the technology advancing primarily hoping for usable light output.

On to the Optoma HD91

Thanks to the local Optoma reps I recently had a chance to spend some time with the HD91.

As always performed a factory reset and fired it up.
The near instant on of solid state illumination is a great benefit.
Its compact, super light, generates very little heat and is nearly silent.
I'm sure it will end up in some unique applications.
All the inputs were in one location on the back where they should be. Never sure why some manufactures place the inputs on the sides??

Flipped through the different modes and thought that Reference looked good.
I tried to use the internal pattern labeled white. It turned out not to be close to white. I can only describe as milky opal.
Using an external source I took some quick readings with the C6 meter with tables for RGB LED/DLP and confirmed that Reference produced the best out of the box performance.
It turned out to be least worst choice.
Whites were clipped, black level was poor, color was under saturated and the “image enhancements” were on producing a very unnatural image.

With some minor calibration everything fell mostly in place. See calibration screen shots below.
However everyone in the room-with the exception of the rep smile.gif-thought the image lacked punch, contrast and oddly brightness.
Why this was odd is you will see in the measurements below that we were getting 13ftl off our testing screen-10'.5 diag 16:9 StudioTek130.
I thought maybe something had changed so I remeasured and got the same results.
One thought was that the lower contrast and under saturation was potentially the culprits.
I crushed blacks, clipped white and increased saturation.
This produced a slightly more appealing image but still not great.
I ran through my usual clips I use for testing.
APL clips looked good.
Low APL not so much.
The scene from the Hunger Games where Katniss is sleeping in the tree is a black level torture test.
Most DLP projectors don't do well with this content.
The HD91 was worse than average producing a black blur with very little perceptible detail.

We were running short on time and only had a quick look at 3D.
It looked good like most DLP projectors in terms of motion, detail and lack of cross talk but again was not bright enough.

There has been so much buzz and polarizing reviews & opinions I was really looking forward to seeing the HD91.
Maybe there is a huge inconsistency between units?
My assumption would be that if its a sample the Optoma reps are demoing it would be the pick of the litter.
This particular sample did not perform as well as the 1st gen devices leaving me disappointed.
Given the amazing performance available around the $4k mark-5030, 55ES and the X500 I expected more.

I will have the new version of the DPI M-Vision Cine LED 1000 in the near future.
DPI promises higher usable light output.
We'll see.




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post #1065 of 1227 Old 03-24-2014, 11:11 PM
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Thanks for the review!

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post #1066 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Given the amazing performance available around the $4k mark-5030, 55ES and the X500 I expected more.

I will have the new version of the DPI M-Vision Cine LED 1000 in the near future.
DPI promises higher usable light output.
We'll see.

trans_lux, that was, truly, a great review. It's great to hear that LED is getting closer. By this time next year, it may be a whole different ballgame. Personally, I can wait.

At this point, I'm guessing there's no player in the market with a currently viable Home Theater LED projector. On the flip side, I think 4K-native systems are going to become more reasonable. The combination of the two at a sub $3K price point is, probably, not too far away. Thoughts?
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post #1067 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 08:01 AM
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A 4K for sub $3K coming soon? I don't think so.

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post #1068 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post



Some quick background.

Several years ago I had the opportunity to have an extended look at the 1st gen LED DLP projectors.
The Runco 750, DPI M-Vision Cine LED DLP - both from Delta and virtually identical-and the SIM2 Micro-SIM2 told me not from Delta?

The technology was exciting and interesting as it was really one of the truly new innovations for projectors in some time.
It solved for me the RBE-rainbow effect-of single chip DLP.
The promise of no image degradation over time and nearly infinite life of illumination was very appealing.
My first reaction was fairly positive.
They initially appeared brighter than the published specs from the manufactures
However after some extended viewing and some back to back comparisons with other projectors in the same price range they looked dim.
Measurements provided proof that they in fact lacked enough usable light output for the screen size and material-10'.5 diag 16:9 StudioTek130-we were using.
Note: I looked everywhere for my reports but could not find them. Not sure if they would even be of value as the meter I was using did not have tables for LED DLP. If I do I'll update the post.

Overall they produced a pleasing image in a dark light controlled room on a modest screen size.
Ultimately I concluded that due to the low light output they had limited applications and were not yet ready for home theater use.
We did install several of the DPI projectors for Microsoft in rear screen application using a smallish piece of StarGlas 100 for a high hour use systems.
They worked ok and were rock solid, but were replaced with a laser driven Sonys.
I looked forward to the technology advancing primarily hoping for usable light output.

On to the Optoma HD91

Thanks to the local Optoma reps I recently had a chance to spend some time with the HD91.

As always performed a factory reset and fired it up.
The near instant on of solid state illumination is a great benefit.
Its compact, super light, generates very little heat and is nearly silent.
I'm sure it will end up in some unique applications.
All the inputs were in one location on the back where they should be. Never sure why some manufactures place the inputs on the sides??

Flipped through the different modes and thought that Reference looked good.
I tried to use the internal pattern labeled white. It turned out not to be close to white. I can only describe as milky opal.
Using an external source I took some quick readings with the C6 meter with tables for RGB LED/DLP and confirmed that Reference produced the best out of the box performance.
It turned out to be least worst choice.
Whites were clipped, black level was poor, color was under saturated and the “image enhancements” were on producing a very unnatural image.

With some minor calibration everything fell mostly in place. See calibration screen shots below.
However everyone in the room-with the exception of the rep smile.gif-thought the image lacked punch, contrast and oddly brightness.
Why this was odd is you will see in the measurements below that we were getting 13ftl off our testing screen-10'.5 diag 16:9 StudioTek130.
I thought maybe something had changed so I remeasured and got the same results.
One thought was that the lower contrast and under saturation was potentially the culprits.
I crushed blacks, clipped white and increased saturation.
This produced a slightly more appealing image but still not great.
I ran through my usual clips I use for testing.
APL clips looked good.
Low APL not so much.
The scene from the Hunger Games where Katniss is sleeping in the tree is a black level torture test.
Most DLP projectors don't do well with this content.
The HD91 was worse than average producing a black blur with very little perceptible detail.

We were running short on time and only had a quick look at 3D.
It looked good like most DLP projectors in terms of motion, detail and lack of cross talk but again was not bright enough.

There has been so much buzz and polarizing reviews & opinions I was really looking forward to seeing the HD91.
Maybe there is a huge inconsistency between units?
My assumption would be that if its a sample the Optoma reps are demoing it would be the pick of the litter.
This particular sample did not perform as well as the 1st gen devices leaving me disappointed.
Given the amazing performance available around the $4k mark-5030, 55ES and the X500 I expected more.

I will have the new version of the DPI M-Vision Cine LED 1000 in the near future.
DPI promises higher usable light output.
We'll see.





A HP screen can solve all the brightness problems. I think I get another one for my place
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post #1069 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 09:40 AM
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[/quote]A HP screen can solve all the brightness problems. I think I get another one for my place[/quote]

I have a sample of the Da-Lite HP on its way. I haven't seen a HP screen that I could live with but everyone says this ones differnt.
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post #1070 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 09:50 AM
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trans_lux,
You are welcome to come around my place and see both the DPI cine1000 LED and the HP 2.4 screen. Just shoot me a pm to schedule something. Shouldn't be much trouble since we are practically neighbors.

blee0120 please check your pm.
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post #1071 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 09:53 AM
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I don't think I remember a projector that has had reviews that were either glowing or terrible like this one has. This has got to make the HD91 a tough one to sell -- at least to those who check out this forum. I'd love to hear a panel discussion with the reviewers who have seen this projector and some videophiles who have also seen it, go at it -- would be very entertaining. After reading the above review how does one reconcile the AVForums and Trusted Reviews, reviews?
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post #1072 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
At this point, I'm guessing there's no player in the market with a currently viable Home Theater LED projector.
Not true. I thought the DPI M Vision Cine 1000 looked excellent. So did Mike. Ask the AVS members that saw it at his house what they thought.


Quote:
On the flip side, I think 4K-native systems are going to become more reasonable. The combination of the two at a sub $3K price point is, probably, not too far away. Thoughts?
I think it will be many years before you see that. And by that time, you won't want it - you'll want the new laser 8K projector ! wink.gif

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I'm available 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday Email me at craig@avscience.com
http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, Klipsch, and many more!
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post #1073 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 12:31 PM
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Your welcome I really enjoy reviewing and writing. I have one I'm working on now that I think will create quite the debate-Sony 600ES vs JVC X55R.....
Its my darn clients that keep getting in the way smile.gif
Quote:
At this point, I'm guessing there's no player in the market with a currently viable Home Theater LED projector. On the flip side, I think 4K-native systems are going to become more reasonable. The combination of the two at a sub $3K price point is, probably, not too far away. Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Not true. I thought the DPI M Vision Cine 1000 looked excellent. So did Mike. Ask the AVS members that saw it at his house what they thought.
I think it will be many years before you see that. And by that time, you won't want it - you'll want the new laser 8K projector ! wink.gif

I agree the 1st gen DPI Cine LED looked great, I was very close to grabbing one for an application I have.
Now that I think about it I did see the Cine LED 1000 at InfoComm and if I remember correctly thought it looked plenty bright.
I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on one.

4k projectors are going to be a premium products for some time to come.
As I always recommend-jump in now and enjoy today or you'll always be waiting for the next best thing.
The projectors available today in the sub $5k category are astonishing.

There is always the DPI Titan LED biggrin.gif- it looked fantastic!
http://www.digitalprojection.com/BrowseProjectors/SeriesList/ProjectorList/ProjectorDetail/tabid/87/ProjectorId/335/MarketTypeId/10/Default.aspx
Quote:
trans_lux,
You are welcome to come around my place and see both the DPI cine1000 LED and the HP 2.4 screen. Just shoot me a pm to schedule something. Shouldn't be much trouble since we are practically neighbors.
dryeye I may take you up on the offer. I bet on the HP screen it looks great.
Quote:
I don't think I remember a projector that has had reviews that were either glowing or terrible like this one has. This has got to make the HD91 a tough one to sell -- at least to those who check out this forum. I'd love to hear a panel discussion with the reviewers who have seen this projector and some videophiles who have also seen it, go at it -- would be very entertaining. After reading the above review how does one reconcile the AVForums and Trusted Reviews, reviews?
I'm perplexed as well. Both reviews were so positive.
I think I must have had a projector that had issues.
What else would explain the internal white pattern looking a milky opal color?
Though externally feed patterns looked fine and I was seeing great light output????
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post #1074 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I don't think I remember a projector that has had reviews that were either glowing or terrible like this one has. This has got to make the HD91 a tough one to sell -- at least to those who check out this forum. I'd love to hear a panel discussion with the reviewers who have seen this projector and some videophiles who have also seen it, go at it -- would be very entertaining. After reading the above review how does one reconcile the AVForums and Trusted Reviews, reviews?

my thoughts are generally aligned with Trusted Reviews, he did not trash the projector and was honest about the pros/cons.

regarding the comparison above, if the Runco 750 + company wasn't enough to satisfy on a relatively large, low gain screen, the HD91 wasn't going to cut it either. It's basically the same lumen output as the 750 + clones, ~ 600-650 @ mid throw. So the CineLED 1000 would make the most sense in that setup.
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post #1075 of 1227 Old 03-25-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

my thoughts are generally aligned with Trusted Reviews, he did not trash the projector and was honest about the pros/cons.

regarding the comparison above, if the Runco 750 + company wasn't enough to satisfy on a relatively large, low gain screen, the HD91 wasn't going to cut it either. It's basically the same lumen output as the 750 + clones, ~ 600-650 @ mid throw. So the CineLED 1000 would make the most sense in that setup.

Currently have reduced pricing on an open box Cine 1000 LED. Call for details. smile.gif

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post #1076 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I don't think I remember a projector that has had reviews that were either glowing or terrible like this one has. This has got to make the HD91 a tough one to sell -- at least to those who check out this forum. I'd love to hear a panel discussion with the reviewers who have seen this projector and some videophiles who have also seen it, go at it -- would be very entertaining. After reading the above review how does one reconcile the AVForums and Trusted Reviews, reviews?

It is all about the setup and the room (exluding some small fault tolerances and variances between units) that allows the range differences reported. Any projector can look bad, many can look good. Simple as that.

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post #1077 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero View Post

It is all about the setup and the room (exluding some small fault tolerances and variances between units) that allows the range differences reported. Any projector can look bad, many can look good. Simple as that.

What you say may be true to some extent when we're talking about enthusiasts commenting about projectors; however, most of the variables you mention (set up) should not affect professional reviews -- at least to the same extent. The professional reviews about projectors from Sony, Epson and JVC are all consistently on the positive side and often agree about a particular projector's attributes. Not so with the HD91 -- comments from professionals about its colour, brightness, 3D, and so on are all over the place. There seems to even be some disagreement about its black levels, although most agree they're not great.
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post #1078 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

What you say may be true to some extent when we're talking about enthusiasts commenting about projectors; however, most of the variables you mention (set up) should not affect professional reviews -- at least to the same extent. The professional reviews about projectors from Sony, Epson and JVC are all consistently on the positive side and often agree about a particular projector's attributes. Not so with the HD91 -- comments from professionals about its colour, brightness, 3D, and so on are all over the place. There seems to even be some disagreement about its black levels, although most agree they're not great.

I hear you. In the HD91 case i think Optoma made a bad product launch with various software versions floating around resulting in "reviews" that today is "dated" (like a german website posted some pages ago). So looking at reviews based on a timescale will probably reveal huge variances indeed.

I havent re-read som more recent and "pro" reviews like trustedreviews or avforums (or did you had any other in mind?) but my understanding is that they are in fact pretty much in agreement. I think it is a word game at the end of the day "bad" vs "not so good". As for "good 3D" vs "not bright 3D" seems to be comparing apples to oranges. I cant see what kind of measurment they gave or what the set up was, but i suspect they where using different screens and sizes. I agree with both of them, mostly with trustedreviews as i think shadow details was good.

Shadow details is dependent on gamma and what prefered gamma value is dependent on contrast so we dont know if we compare apples to apples here as well. The only thing we know is that it i) can revel good shadow details and ii) it can also mute many details hence i conclude some kind of setting differences smile.gif

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post #1079 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 10:03 AM
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Projector Central's review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd91_led_projector_review.htm


And here's what caught me in particular:
Quote:
And with a retail price of $2,499, you won't pay significantly more for the HD91 than you would for a lamp-based projector.

???

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #1080 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 10:39 AM
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Projector Central's review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd91_led_projector_review.htm


And here's what caught me in particular:
???

Thanks for this. The price also caught my attention and I'll bet a lot of retailers as well. At this price this projector becomes more appealing, especially on an 80" HP screen and used like a T.V. -- constantly on and off or on for long periods of time.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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