OPTOMA HD91 FULL LED DLP full hd 2D 3D Ready end 2013 - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 11:01 AM
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Good review... I wish it would fit my needs, but I guess I will have to wait a year or so more till I can get one that has enough output for a 180" screen in a light controlled room with a AT screen. I was looking at the Panasonics, and thought they would be good but their light output when tested is no better than the Optima. frown.gif

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post #1082 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 03:16 PM
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I noticed that the review is down - wrong price listed - sorry. $ 2499.00 is way below dealer cost - oops ! smile.gif

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post #1083 of 1227 Old 03-26-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I noticed that the review is down - wrong price listed - sorry. $ 2499.00 is way below dealer cost - oops ! smile.gif

Price has now been changed to $3,999.00 in the PC review! If the 5030 compared more than favourably with the HD91 when the HD91 was noted with a retail price of $2,499.00 -- now with the HD91 having a much higher retail price won't the 5030 look like an even better buy?
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post #1084 of 1227 Old 03-28-2014, 03:02 AM
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Interesting comments about the lens and brightness.

Am I reading this right? If you need as much brightness as possible, you're better off placing it as close to the screen as possible on minimum zoom - yes?

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post #1085 of 1227 Old 03-28-2014, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pecker View Post

Interesting comments about the lens and brightness.

Am I reading this right? If you need as much brightness as possible, you're better off placing it as close to the screen as possible on minimum zoom - yes?

Steve W

Yes, my understanding is that the zoom acts somewhat like an iris -- at the furtherest you get slightly better contrast at the expense of a dimmer image. For 3D I place my projectors as close as possible to my screen.
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post #1086 of 1227 Old 03-28-2014, 09:03 AM
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Interesting comments about the lens and brightness.

Am I reading this right? If you need as much brightness as possible, you're better off placing it as close to the screen as possible on minimum zoom - yes?

Steve W

That's typical for most projectors with a zoom lens.

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post #1087 of 1227 Old 03-29-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by metaldave View Post

I just spoke with Optoma USA sales, and Their maximum advertised price (MAP) on the unit is $3,999, so I'd expect to see this priced fairly reasonably.

Okay, this may have been an error. I just received an e-mail back from the Optoma Regional Sales Manager that I spoke with previously, and they said they were mistaken. The MAP/MSRP on the HD91 is, actually, $7899 US.

Oh well; Maybe next year, eh?
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post #1088 of 1227 Old 03-29-2014, 09:58 AM
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wow, that must be an error. I think the MSRP would be $3999 (same as Taiwan ), street price would be lower ($3500~3700 in Taiwan now).
I won't pay $7899 for this projector, even X700........
I could buy the VPL VW500 from Japan including 5 day express still lower than $7899.
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post #1089 of 1227 Old 03-29-2014, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by metaldave View Post

Okay, this may have been an error. I just received an e-mail back from the Optoma Regional Sales Manager that I spoke with previously, and they said they were mistaken. The MAP/MSRP on the HD91 is, actually, $7899 US.
Given that projectorcentral.com had to correct their original pricing and the updated price was $3999 I would think that Projector Central had been in contact with Optoma to get the correct price. Also, Optoma's site now links to that projectorcentral.com review that says $3999.

Pretty strange if that price is close to half of Optoma's actual MAP. At about $2500 it seems like projectorcentral.com liked it and at $4k maybe a little bit less based on the text of the review I saw after the change (even if the number of stars went up). At $7.9k I wonder what projectorcentral.com would say about it.

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post #1090 of 1227 Old 03-30-2014, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Given that projectorcentral.com had to correct their original pricing and the updated price was $3999 I would think that Projector Central had been in contact with Optoma to get the correct price. Also, Optoma's site now links to that projectorcentral.com review that says $3999.

Pretty strange if that price is close to half of Optoma's actual MAP. At about $2500 it seems like projectorcentral.com liked it and at $4k maybe a little bit less based on the text of the review I saw after the change (even if the number of stars went up). At $7.9k I wonder what projectorcentral.com would say about it.

--Darin

I don't think PC wants to revisit the HD91 -- when it thought both the Optoma and the Epson 5030 were almost similar in pricing it compared the two and seemed to slightly favour the Epson. With a 60% increase in the HD91's price over what PC originally believed, it now appears the 5030 is a runaway better value. No doubt some, if not much of the revenue PC receives is from advertising dollars from projector manufacturers and I'll bet PC is inclined to want to keep those manufacturers happy -- how often do you see it slam a projector? Performance ratings for home theatre projectors seldom fall below 4 out of 5 stars. To some extend this "mistake" in pricing exposes the weakness of these reviews. There is no way that projector "A" at $4,000 should receive 4.5/5 for performance when it received only 4/5 for performance when the price was mistakenly listed at $2,500. In this case, at least, it appears that the more you pay the more the performance score is inflated? Is this an exception? I guess this is in keeping with -- "you get what you pay for!" Not!! rolleyes.gif

I should add -- the big advantage for me with LED is the ability to turn the projector on and off constantly over the course of a day. Turning a lamp based projector constantly on and off apparently takes a heavy toll on the lamp. For some this is a big advantage that the HD91 has over the Epson and this wasn't mentioned in PC's review.
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post #1091 of 1227 Old 03-30-2014, 11:23 PM
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post #1092 of 1227 Old 03-31-2014, 06:04 AM
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post #1093 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 03:59 AM
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I'm quite maddened.

Every review I read says something different - and not just in matters of opinion.

A big issue is whether the projector will be bright enough. The post-calibration lumens measurements have been quite different, running from maybe 500 up to almost 700.

It's been suggested before, but I'm seriously wondering whether or not there is greater variance between different units than usual.

Steve W
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post #1094 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Pecker View Post

I'm quite maddened.

Every review I read says something different - and not just in matters of opinion.

A big issue is whether the projector will be bright enough. The post-calibration lumens measurements have been quite different, running from maybe 500 up to almost 700.

It's been suggested before, but I'm seriously wondering whether or not there is greater variance between different units than usual.

Steve W

I think you have a point there and it is not positive with such great variance. A unit a friend of mine tried to calibrate was simply not possible to calibrate correctly and others are very good and calibrates very well, not good Optoma. It is not a bright projector and it never will be, but for small screens it is enough.

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post #1095 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 05:33 AM
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I think you have a point there and it is not positive with such great variance. A unit a friend of mine tried to calibrate was simply not possible to calibrate correctly and others are very good and calibrates very well,not good Optoma.

Difficult to say, really. It's new technology - they're clearly able to do LED at a far lower price than anyone else. Maybe things will stabilise as the tech has settled. Maybe people are calibrating in different ways?
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It is not a bright projector and it never will be, but for small screens it is enough.

At the top end, it's fine for larger screens - that's the big problem. It's not that the Optoma HD91 isn't bright enough for big screens, it's that some units, as calibrated by some people, are bright enough, whilst others aren't.

Of course, it depends what you mean by 'big'...

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Difficult to say, really. It's new technology - they're clearly able to do LED at a far lower price than anyone else. Maybe things will stabilise as the tech has settled. Maybe people are calibrating in different ways?
At the top end, it's fine for larger screens - that's the big problem. It's not that the Optoma HD91 isn't bright enough for big screens, it's that some units, as calibrated by some people, are bright enough, whilst others aren't.

Of course, it depends what you mean by 'big'...

Steve W

My friend who tried to calibrate is very experienced and told me the CMS did not work correctly, other report they are easy to calibrate, I suspect the one my friend tried was broken and others work.

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post #1097 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 05:46 AM
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My friend who tried to calibrate is very experienced and told me the CMS did not work correctly, other report they are easy to calibrate, I suspect the one my friend tried was broken and others work.

You see, that's okay.

If you get a dud, they'll replace it. If more units are duds you've more chance of getting one, but that's not really the end of the world. Having to replace it 4 times until you get a good 'un would be bad, but I'm guessing that's not what we're talking about.

If one unit only puts out 500 lumens and the next 700, and you get a 500 lumens one and you need more for a larger screen, it's no good if they say it's not going to be replaced as it's 'within tolerances'.

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post #1098 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

My friend who tried to calibrate is very experienced and told me the CMS did not work correctly, other report they are easy to calibrate, I suspect the one my friend tried was broken and others work.

You see, that's okay.

If you get a dud, they'll replace it. If more units are duds you've more chance of getting one, but that's not really the end of the world. Having to replace it 4 times until you get a good 'un would be bad, but I'm guessing that's not what we're talking about.

If one unit only puts out 500 lumens and the next 700, and you get a 500 lumens one and you need more for a larger screen, it's no good if they say it's not going to be replaced as it's 'within tolerances'.

Steve W

Replacing a projector with a broken cms or what we assume lower light output is not that easy in some regions especially if its a broken cms. If its a physical failure its easier to get it replaced. Unless of course you have a dealer who has a good relationship with the distributor/manufacturer.

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post #1099 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pecker View Post

A big issue is whether the projector will be bright enough. The post-calibration lumens measurements have been quite different, running from maybe 500 up to almost 700.
I wonder if this is mostly from using different zoom positions for the lens. From the projectorcentral comments it looks like the light output varies significantly between the ends of the throw range. I don't recall whether the reviews with around 500 to 700 mentioned the throw used.

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post #1100 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 09:56 AM
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I wonder if this is mostly from using different zoom positions for the lens. From the projectorcentral comments it looks like the light output varies significantly between the ends of the throw range. I don't recall whether the reviews with around 500 to 700 mentioned the throw used.

--Darin

That would be fairly typical of zoom lenses, would it not? It would be nice if all reviewers tested brightness at both ends of the mounting distance spectrum.

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post #1101 of 1227 Old 04-01-2014, 02:52 PM
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I still think this projector would be good for someone wanting to use it to watch HDTV in a media room situation. Get a big High Power screen and use it like a TV !! smile.gif

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post #1102 of 1227 Old 04-02-2014, 05:58 AM
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I still think this projector would be good for someone wanting to use it to watch HDTV in a media room situation. Get a big High Power screen and use it like a TV !! smile.gif

That's how I see it as well.

Interestingly no one has made any detailed comments how this projector handles 3D on a medium seized high power screen. Also there have been no comments about the 2D to 3D conversion -- I know some don't like 3D at all and 2D to 3D conversion is like rubbing salt in an open wound; however, the 2D to 3D conversion on the Mits 7900/8000 is excellent (not perfect) and well worth the price of admission if 3D is important to you. I personally feel that reviews that don't review and comment on all the features of of a particular projector are doing a disservice to the reader -- many reviewers leave the DI off, any enhancements like CFI and RC or Super Resolution features, off and so on. These reviewers are missing the boat -- they're only reviewing the projector as they would use it and not how a majority of their readers may use it. Their reviews are, IMO, biased and are to a large extent deficient. [That said, many reviewers don't have a clue about 3D background ghosting, have never given features like a DI a chance because they saw a poorly implemented one some time ago and can't be bothered to check out a properly implemented one, and so on.]
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post #1103 of 1227 Old 04-02-2014, 09:50 AM
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Interestingly no one has made any detailed comments how this projector handles 3D on a medium seized high power screen. Also there have been no comments about the 2D to 3D conversion

Paging Dr. Zombie, paging Dr. Zombie - is there a Zombie in the house ? I'll bet he knows...................smile.gif

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post #1104 of 1227 Old 04-02-2014, 10:40 AM
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ahh, the slippery road on 2D - 3D conversions. I'm less enthusiastic here than DV. I thought the Mitsubishi 2D - 3D was ok, but personally wouldn't use it. I already have enough issues with certain 3D content that was shot native, let alone a real time conversion.

I'll take a look at it this week. DV, do you have any recommendation of 2D titles that converted well on the Mitsubishi?

regarding 3D brightness, I have it dead center on my 142" 2.8HP. It's a little too dim for my preferences but it would be fine on a 100-110" HP IMO.
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post #1105 of 1227 Old 04-02-2014, 10:51 AM
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ahh, the slippery road on 2D - 3D conversions. I'm less enthusiastic here than DV. I thought the Mitsubishi 2D - 3D was ok, but personally wouldn't use it. I already have enough issues with certain 3D content that was shot native, let alone a real time conversion.

I'll take a look at it this week. DV, do you have any recommendation of 2D titles that converted well on the Mitsubishi?

regarding 3D brightness, I have it dead center on my 142" 2.8HP. It's a little too dim for my preferences but it would be fine on a 100-110" HP IMO.

I'm surprised you still have the HD91 -- thought you had returned it.

Here are some suggestions to try with the 2D to 3D conversion:

Last two Riddick movies;
Director's cut of Blade Runner;
Event Horizon;
Dune;
Ender's Game; and
The Matrix

Thanks
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post #1106 of 1227 Old 04-02-2014, 11:18 AM
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I'm surprised you still have the HD91 -- thought you had returned it.

Well, it's not like he is burning up lamp hours !! wink.gif

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regarding 3D brightness, I have it dead center on my 142" 2.8HP. It's a little too dim for my preferences but it would be fine on a 100-110" HP IMO.

My screen is effectively 114" - you think that would be okay?

By the way, regarding recent discussion on zoom & brightness, how far away from your screen is the projector?

Cheers.

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post #1108 of 1227 Old 04-03-2014, 09:25 AM
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My screen is effectively 114" - you think that would be okay?

What kind of screen material ? One thing to keep in mind - dimming of the projector - compared to lamps - will be very slow !!

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post #1109 of 1227 Old 04-04-2014, 03:43 AM
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My screen is 1.1 gain.

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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

There is no way that projector "A" at $4,000 should receive 4.5/5 for performance when it received only 4/5 for performance when the price was mistakenly listed at $2,500. In this case, at least, it appears that the more you pay the more the performance score is inflated? Is this an exception? I guess this is in keeping with -- "you get what you pay for!" Not!! rolleyes.gif

If the Performance rating was 4.0/5 during the brief time the uncorrected draft was up, that was a mistake. The score was always supposed to be 4.5/5.
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I personally feel that reviews that don't review and comment on all the features of of a particular projector are doing a disservice to the reader -- many reviewers leave the DI off, any enhancements like CFI and RC or Super Resolution features, off and so on. These reviewers are missing the boat -- they're only reviewing the projector as they would use it and not how a majority of their readers may use it.

I have no idea if this comment is aimed at anyone in particular, but I do want to say something here briefly. Were I to make meaningful comments on every feature present in every projector I see, my reviews would be 15,000 words long and my editor would be very upset with me. Instead, I'll look at a feature, see if there's something special to be said (i.e. is it unique? If not, is it significantly better/worse than the competitors' implementations of the same?) and if it's just average, I don't mention it. That's the only way I can keep these reviews to a reasonable length anymore. Just because I don't mention a thing doesn't mean I didn't look at it or don't appreciate the value of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

That would be fairly typical of zoom lenses, would it not? It would be nice if all reviewers tested brightness at both ends of the mounting distance spectrum.

Right on the money. The HD91's lens-related light loss is typical. We measured a 46% loss on the HD91 versus, for example, a 44% loss on the Epson 5030UB. Seeing a 40% drop is not the least bit unusual on 2:1 lenses.
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