OPTOMA HD91 FULL LED DLP full hd 2D 3D Ready end 2013 - Page 41 - AVS Forum
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post #1201 of 1227 Old 05-23-2014, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ay221 View Post

I'm not looking to buy until my current projector goes bad. I think a 118" would be too dim for this projector. Just really trying to learn how different companies specify their shift range differently and trying to interpret them. Not sure if a dlp has enough shift for my needs.

Depends on the screen gain, throw distance and room conditions. In high lamp, even a 1.0 gain screen would have plenty of b rightness for a decent room. You would have around 19FL for 2D. Now 3D will be on the dim side. Get a 1.1 gain screen and now you have enough lumens to light up the screen in low lamp. We have a great price on an open box, if interested.

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post #1202 of 1227 Old 05-23-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post


Depends on the screen gain, throw distance and room conditions. In high lamp, even a 1.0 gain screen would have plenty of b rightness for a decent room. You would have around 19FL for 2D. Now 3D will be on the dim side. Get a 1.1 gain screen and now you have enough lumens to light up the screen in low lamp. We have a great price on an open box, if interested.

 

Im interested , i got 1.4 blackdiamond screen 100 inch ..

throw at about 11ft ..

and im using now Mitsubishi hc7900 and its looks good with some ambeint light on ..

and im looking realy for this projector u got .. 

proplem is im from kuwait and i got already account in MYUS  ..

but if there is something wrong with th open projector its hard to send it back .. 

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post #1203 of 1227 Old 05-23-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gabthenab View Post

Im interested , i got 1.4 blackdiamond screen 100 inch ..
throw at about 11ft ..
and im using now Mitsubishi hc7900 and its looks good with some ambeint light on ..
and im looking realy for this projector u got .. 
proplem is im from kuwait and i got already account in MYUS  ..
but if there is something wrong with th open projector its hard to send it back .. 

Sent you a PM. smile.gif

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post #1204 of 1227 Old 06-13-2014, 10:12 PM
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Informations about the "new" HD90 on Optoma UK Website

Hi,

informations about the "new" HD90 (HD91 short throw version) are now available on UK and International Optoma website :

http://www.optoma.co.uk/allprojectors

http://www.optoma.co.uk/projectordet...inment&PC=HD90
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post #1205 of 1227 Old 06-17-2014, 12:22 AM
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Projector Reviews review is up:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/opto...jector-review/

Not to beat a dead horse, but:

Quote:
Overall black level performance of the HD91 is borderline what I call “ultra high contrast” when one of the three Dynamic Black modes are engaged On the right scenes it can do a very respectable job, as seen in a couple of these images.

There are two issues though. First, as previously mentioned, the dynamic aspects of Dynamic Black are far too visible. Dynamic Black even causes very visible changes on medium bright scenes, where most dynamic irises intentionally are designed to minimize visibility.

On the classic dark scenes we look at, including the Casino Royale (Bond) night train scene, a dark scene from Hunger Games Catching Fire), and the starship in Fifth Element, blacks aren’t bad, but not up to most of the competition found on over $2000 projectors. Our favorite projectors around the price, BenQ’s W7500 (also a DLP projector, and the one closest in black level performance), Epson’s 5030UB/6030UB, Sony’s VPL-HW55ES and JVC’s X35, all are capable of from slightly to dramatically better. If you turn off Dynamic Black completely, then the HD91 in those same scenes seems more typical of under $2000 projectors, which at its price point, is not exactly a “good thing!”

Why consider turning Dynamic Black off? Because it is often visible, it can be a distraction.


Art tries to capture the visible contrast difference of the HD91 vs Epson 5030






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In our side by sides, the HD91′s on the left. The other projector is the Epson Home Cinema 5030UB – the UB’s being the best blacks per dollar of projector for a number of years now. As you can see, the differences are rather dramatic. Also of note, the Epson in the side by side is in it’s calibrated mode, with lamp on Normal – which is their less bright eco mode in this case. The Optoma is at full “lamp” power. Even so, the Epson projector still produces the brighter image. You’ll need to take that brightness difference in consideration when comparing the blacks. Note that the HD91 projector had Dynamic Black set to 3, the one that most reduces the overall and black levels.

Even in Dynamic Black 3, and with the Epson being brighter overall, you can see in the letterbox areas and in the darkest parts of the woods, that the Epson’s blacks are easily much darker.

On my computer colorimeter, for example, the dark areas are coming up as value 11-18 on the Epson vs. 23-33 on the HD91, a big difference. And remember that near mid bright white areas on the HD91 are ok often as low as 170, while the same areas on the Epson because the image is brighter, are crushed at 255.

And you can appreciate that just by looking at this side by side train image. On the Starship image the differences are even more noticeable and rather dramatic, the HD91 does reasonably well, but the letterbox and the background of space are significantly blacker, giving the image more pop. The JVC and Sony competition would prove similar compared to the HD91.

Note that one can also use the LED Brightness section to dim the maximum brightness. But on this projector there really aren’t any lumens to spare, otherwise I would have checked to see if limiting the maximum brightness would have made the Dynamic Black action less noticeable.


Art's summation:

Quote:
Ultimately, though, the Optoma HD91 is a projector that doesn’t live up to its potential. Two things stand between its current existence, and that of being a top competitor. The brightness is one thing – but that’s not an issue for those using smaller screens, but the other is the only ok black level performance – which is further complicated by it’s iris equivalent – Dynamic Black, being less smooth than the dynamic irises on any of the direct competition.

If Optoma could improve on the “iris” really the lamp dimming action, it would take the HD91 up a notch and make it a more serious competitor.

Last edited by Seegs108; 06-17-2014 at 01:19 AM.
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post #1206 of 1227 Old 06-17-2014, 03:23 PM
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These are not going to sell now. Watch the price drop.

I would be tempted just for Gaming, 3D and the kids to use. If the price halved.

However I couldn't take it seriously for film watching now.
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post #1207 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 06:05 AM
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Here's a review of HD91 from a Russian site IXBT.COM. The contrast was measured at 1175:1.
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post #1208 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 11:18 AM
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Another case unfortunately of " you get what you pay for ". If you want an LED projector that throws a great image, get a DPI M Vision Cine 1000. The open box unit we have isn't that much more expensive. Not considering the picture it throws.

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post #1209 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Another case unfortunately of " you get what you pay for ". If you want an LED projector that throws a great image, get a DPI M Vision Cine 1000. The open box unit we have isn't that much more expensive. Not considering the picture it throws.
There's really no excuse for this Optoma's poor performance, it should be at least as good as any other similar Optoma chassis (like the HD66). I mean just look at the Vivitek 9080. All they did was take the UHP lamp out and stick an LED module in it's place. And at worst the performance was just as good, some would say better. There's just no reason for an LED machine to be worse than a UHP machine just because of the price, I mean the LEDs aren't that expensive and Optoma clearly isn't breaking any R&D ground that they have to recoup a significant investment.

The Cine1000 is a great machine, but it's in a different class, the LED light source has little to do with that.
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post #1210 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 12:18 PM
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I can't say that I've been impressed with Optoma's projectors for a long time. And I owned an H79.


How many lackluster $3000.00 projectors do you need to buy before you could have gotten a $ 10K projector that worked like it should and keeps you happy for 5 years? Just saying...
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post #1211 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 01:41 PM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I can't say that I've been impressed with Optoma's projectors for a long time. And I owned an H79.


How many lackluster $3000.00 projectors do you need to buy before you could have gotten a $ 10K projector that worked like it should and keeps you happy for 5 years? Just saying...
There are some extremely good "lacklustre" projectors out there. I'd rather spend $3,000 on a "lacklustre" projector (HD91 not included) than $10,000 on a so-called "good" projector and have it worth next to nothing when I want to upgrade to 4K in a couple of years or to a laser projector. It's not a major problem if you keep the projector for seven or eight years. Many here are interested in upgrading on a constant basis and in IMO paying over $5,000 for a projector is problematic for many considering the huge depreciation. It's much easier to rationalize taking a 50% hit or more on a $3,000 projector than it is on a $10,000 projector after only a couple years of use. Let's face it, most of us are susceptible to the marketing hype from manufacturers, which is picked up and promoted on AV forums where there is a receptive audience that can't wait to part with their hard earned cash.

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post #1212 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 01:57 PM
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I guess the point I was trying to make was taking a depreciation hit every year on less expensive projectors that don't live up to their expectations is in my experience more expensive ( and frustrating ) then paying somewhat more for a projector that will satisfy you for several years. Now, if you feel compelled to upgrade every other year ( or every year ) no matter what - never mind. Lately though, I've sold projectors to folks that are replacing 10 year old CRT's and NEC HT1000 / 1100's - so some people keep a good projector a long time. I myself have fallen into that camp.
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post #1213 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I can't say that I've been impressed with Optoma's projectors for a long time. And I owned an H79.
Maybe I'm completely out of touch with Optoma performance, but the impression I get is that the HD91 falls rather far short of what other, non-LED, less-expensive Optomas do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
How many lackluster $3000.00 projectors do you need to buy before you could have gotten a $ 10K projector that worked like it should and keeps you happy for 5 years? Just saying...
I'm going on 5 years on my Planar 8150. As for your comment, you could get a B-stock JVC too. Though in principal I agree, whenever I've gone with the cheaper option, just because it's cheaper, in the past I've regretted it and it ended up costing me more in the long run. But at the same time you don't need to spend $10k to get a great projector that can last you 5 years today.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #1214 of 1227 Old 06-18-2014, 02:00 PM
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Maybe I'm completely out of touch with Optoma performance, but the impression I get is that the HD91 falls rather far short of what other, non-LED, less-expensive Optomas do.



I'm going on 5 years on my Planar 8150. As for your comment, you could get a B-stock JVC too. Though in principal I agree, whenever I've gone with the cheaper option, just because it's cheaper, in the past I've regretted it and it ended up costing me more in the long run. But at the same time you don't need to spend $10k to get a great projector that can last you 5 years today.

I agree - there are plenty of good projectors in the $4K+ to $7K+ range to satisfy most videophiles.
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post #1215 of 1227 Old 06-23-2014, 08:07 PM
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Cool My HD90

I haven't posted for a while since I have been busy making my home theater room blacked out.
I also bought new theater seating. Why? because I love my HD90. I costed me 200$ extra for customs from D-NEXUS but it was worth it. It has been doing its job daily and I'm enjoying it. I only rarely see the dynamic iris effect people here claimed was unbearable and that's from a very dark scene to a very bright scene. The 3D is also great, no ghosting as far as I can see. The colors are gorgeous. Of course the back is not as black as my LED backlit Samsung LCD TV but what do you expect, its a projector.
So for whatever its worth,.. I'm very happy with my HD90 purchase and glad I made the choice I did.
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post #1216 of 1227 Old 06-23-2014, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator View Post
I haven't posted for a while since I have been busy making my home theater room blacked out.
I also bought new theater seating. Why? because I love my HD90. I costed me 200$ extra for customs from D-NEXUS but it was worth it. It has been doing its job daily and I'm enjoying it. I only rarely see the dynamic iris effect people here claimed was unbearable and that's from a very dark scene to a very bright scene. The 3D is also great, no ghosting as far as I can see. The colors are gorgeous. Of course the back is not as black as my LED backlit Samsung LCD TV but what do you expect, its a projector.
So for whatever its worth,.. I'm very happy with my HD90 purchase and glad I made the choice I did.
I don't think anyone is trying to tell you that you don't like the projector. More power to you if you're enjoying it. I think the issue stems from professional reviewers who have seen the vast majority of what's out there and realize what "value" this projector has in it's price range. There seems to be a unanimous conclusion about this projector among reviewers and non-professionals (people on this forum for example) that it offers poor picture quality in respect to the others within it's price range. The biggest complaint is that contrast, even for DLP projectors, is terrible and the dynamic iris (LED modulation) is very poorly implemented. Take a moment to read what Art from projectorreviews.com has to say about it. He's usually pretty light worded when it comes to dynamic irises but he takes a considerable amount of time to tell his readers that this implementation is not up to par and I don't think he's a particular stickler when it comes to DI implementations. While Epson has never been particularly bad with it's DI's from the few projectors I've seen from Epson with a DI implemented, I never thought they were class leading or anywhere near as good as something from Sony or Runco and he doesn't really mention it in his reviews. So this to me means one of two things. He either thinks Epson's DI is "good enough", aka not worth mentioning because it's a non issue, or he's not particularly hyper sensitive or susceptible to their workings. I'd probably guess the latter which means this implementation is particularly bad which is why goes into great length to warn people. For a $5000 projector, and a DLP one at that, this is pretty shameful. Without the DI this projector performs as good as a $800 projector from Optoma or BenQ. Other than the LEDs and slight step up in lens quality/placement flexibility, what characteristics set this projector apart from one of those $800-$1000 DLP projectors? Because if most of the buyers can't use the DI, I just don't see this projector outperforming something like the VERY affordable BenQ W1070. That $3000+ premium for the LEDs can buy one heck of a lot of replacement bulbs.
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post #1217 of 1227 Old 06-24-2014, 04:38 AM
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Take a moment to read what Art from projectorreviews.com has to say about it. He's usually pretty light worded when it comes to dynamic irises but he takes a considerable amount of time to tell his readers that this implementation is not up to par and I don't think he's a particular stickler when it comes to DI implementations.
I'd actually avoid that, if you have the projector, and enjoy it, just stay with that, don't go looking for issues or you'll find them. This is actually good advice for anyone with any projector. No projector is perfect and if you go looking for issues with it, you will find them, IMO it's better to just be "blissfully ignorant" of issues with a machine you're happy with already.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #1218 of 1227 Old 06-24-2014, 06:32 AM
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The interesting thing about DLP is its high ANSI contrast compared to most other technologies. I certainly agree that on/off is more important when it comes to image quality. I believe that high ANNSI contrast mitigates a low on/off in darker mixed scenes. Some material like Gravity should not look particularly good with a projector that fades to a medium grey but it does! The blacks of space in this movie look deep black. I have a number of 3D DLPs and I'm always surprised by some dark material that should not look particularly good but does. Also, IMO 3D helps with apparent contrast and levels the playing field somewhat.

The thing about LED is that it allows you to use the projector as a T.V. -- on and off constantly and it's difficult to put a value on that. A big plus for some.

Even if the pumping action of dynamic black is noticeable what exactly does that mean? To see it at all is unacceptable for some while for others if they notice it once in a while it's not a big enough issue to stop them from using this feature. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was interested in this projector and decided not to buy it; however, if memory serves me right three major review sites gave this projector a very good overall appraisal -- Projector Central 9/10, AVForms 9/10 and Trusted Reviews 8/10. There are at least two sides to every story -- usually three sides -- his side, her side and the truth.
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post #1219 of 1227 Old 06-24-2014, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
The interesting thing about DLP is its high ANSI contrast compared to most other technologies. I certainly agree that on/off is more important when it comes to image quality. I believe that high ANNSI contrast mitigates a low on/off in darker mixed scenes. Some material like Gravity should not look particularly good with a projector that fades to a medium grey but it does! The blacks of space in this movie look deep black. I have a number of 3D DLPs and I'm always surprised by some dark material that should not look particularly good but does. Also, IMO 3D helps with apparent contrast and levels the playing field somewhat.

The thing about LED is that it allows you to use the projector as a T.V. -- on and off constantly and it's difficult to put a value on that. A big plus for some.

Even if the pumping action of dynamic black is noticeable what exactly does that mean? To see it at all is unacceptable for some while for others if they notice it once in a while it's not a big enough issue to stop them from using this feature. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was interested in this projector and decided not to buy it; however, if memory serves me right three major review sites gave this projector a very good overall appraisal -- Projector Central 9/10, AVForms 9/10 and Trusted Reviews 8/10. There are at least two sides to every story -- usually three sides -- his side, her side and the truth.
A huge plus, if we are talking about a non dedicated room. Is it just me, but I like the train image (above) better on the HD91. Talking about the image its self, not the black level of the black bars.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Even if the pumping action of dynamic black is noticeable what exactly does that mean? To see it at all is unacceptable for some while for others if they notice it once in a while it's not a big enough issue to stop them from using this feature. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
In this instance it means that when you enable it, it's action is quite literally annoying and it makes you want to disable it.

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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I was interested in this projector and decided not to buy it; however, if memory serves me right three major review sites gave this projector a very good overall appraisal -- Projector Central 9/10, AVForms 9/10 and Trusted Reviews 8/10. There are at least two sides to every story -- usually three sides -- his side, her side and the truth.
The first two review sites are probably the least trusted in the business. There are at least that many reviews that say the complete opposite. I guess in this instance it boils down to who you trust. I don't think I'm going to all of a sudden start trusting AVForums especially when getting a 9/10 puts the performance in the same league as one of the Sony 4K machines or a JVC. And then ProjectorCentral who believes any Panasonic projector to be the quintessential and gold standard in picture quality at any price point.

Even if you read between the lines in those reviews they don't really have a whole lot of nice things to say. Things that set this projector apart from any other DLP projector at or near it's price point. It seems to me they were almost forced to give this thing a "great" review and the lack of general excitement in these reviews really says a lot to me.

Last edited by Seegs108; 06-24-2014 at 07:17 AM.
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post #1221 of 1227 Old 06-24-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
A huge plus, if we are talking about a non dedicated room. Is it just me, but I like the train image (above) better on the HD91. Talking about the image its self, not the black level of the black bars.

I do too. The other shot looks over exposed. Another example of problems using screen shots perhaps ?

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post #1222 of 1227 Old 06-24-2014, 05:42 PM
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The HD91 actually had better shadow detail. If you look at the dark parts of the images you can see more detail with the HD91. Please note I'm only talking about the photos. I have never seen this projector and don't have a dog in this race.

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post #1223 of 1227 Old 06-25-2014, 04:39 AM
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You really can't draw any conclusions from those pictures, as Craig noted, this is a problem of using screenshots for comparison. About the only thing you can infer from those pictures is the one on the right has greater contrast. Beyond that who knows, it looks to have blown out whites and crushed blacks, which is all but certainly a problem with the picture, not the projector.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #1224 of 1227 Old 06-25-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
You really can't draw any conclusions from those pictures, as Craig noted, this is a problem of using screenshots for comparison. About the only thing you can infer from those pictures is the one on the right has greater contrast. Beyond that who knows, it looks to have blown out whites and crushed blacks, which is all but certainly a problem with the picture, not the projector.
One needs really good camera gear and needs to be a really good photographer to take screen shots that truly represent the picture on the screen. And of course there is no way to show the effects of motion.

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post #1225 of 1227 Old 06-25-2014, 11:54 AM
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I'm fairly certain I've spent more time with this projector that any of the reviewers posted above. For those that haven't seen it in person, I can assure that it doesn't look like a VGA business projector or a white van scam projector.

It's quite sharp for a .65 DLP and it's relatively easy to color calibrate. There are several decent gamma selections built in that don't require a heavy calibration.

I think if someone is using it for TV or general movies, they aren't likely going to notice the dynamic iris. The ANSI contrast must be 1/2 decent since the relatively low on/off contrast is not obvious during mixed APL scenes. In low APL scenes, you can definitely recognize the lack of on/off.

The 3D brightness is a concern, it's one of the lowest I've seen in a while. The price/ features ultimately determine the success of specific model. I think these would have been a lot more popular in the 2K or slightly under range.


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post #1226 of 1227 Old 06-30-2014, 01:02 PM
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I really want consumer LED projectors to work, but the light output is not there, that makes long life the projectors only selling point.
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post #1227 of 1227 Old 06-30-2014, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
I really want consumer LED projectors to work, but the light output is not there, that makes long life the projectors only selling point.
Most of them put out around 600 lumens. Up until a couple years ago that was the norm and what most people were working with. Most of the JVCs, Sonys, Mitsubishi's, BenQs, ect were just as bright as the current crop of DLP LED models out now. It's only been the last two to three years that has brought us more brightness. 3D is what really fueled this higher brightness trend. 600 lumens is still bright enough for a 120" screen and if you go with a slightly higher gain screen (1.3 perhaps) you can go even larger. I don't really see this as a valid argument especially when the LEDs don't dim. That 120" screen will always get the same amount of light going to it from an LED model so if it's bright enough day one it will be bright enough on day 2000 unlike bulb based projectors that dim over time.
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