OPTOMA HD91 FULL LED DLP full hd 2D 3D Ready end 2013 - Page 42 - AVS Forum
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post #1231 of 1240 Old Yesterday, 07:34 PM
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the low lumen output in 3D was my deal breaker. I wonder how many of these they made and how many were sold?

it shouldn't be long before a smokin' woot deal
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post #1232 of 1240 Old Yesterday, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
the low lumen output in 3D was my deal breaker.
LEDs so far have not been bright enough for 3D. The manufacturers claim 1000 lumens but after calibration they seem to top out at around 600 lumens. The new Sim2 Nero projectors may hopefully change this rather dismal record.
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post #1233 of 1240 Old Yesterday, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
LEDs so far have not been bright enough for 3D. The manufacturers claim 1000 lumens but after calibration they seem to top out at around 600 lumens. The new Sim2 Nero projectors may hopefully change this rather dismal record.
Like I said in the other thread. Wait for the new Sim2 projectors before making these claims. The marketing sheets from Sim2 on these new models are worded completely different, in that, it seems like these truly are a different breed of LEDs. It's only been 1 model from Digital Projection and 1 model from Sim2 that didn't meet the 1000 lumen claim spec (these are the only two so far to make the claim). And iirc they said 1000 lumens with the H-K effect. The others from Runco, Vivitek, and others have all claimed ~700 lumens. And just like bulb projectors the claimed lumen output is not in its calibrated mode, but it's brightest mode. I'm sure in the brightest modes in it's native gamut at max zoom we'd see close to 1000 lumens.

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post #1234 of 1240 Old Today, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
It was really just me until people started reading reviews. The problem is that Optoma just doesn't know how to make a flagship projector. I've owned a few Optoma's and all of them felt like some kind of cheap knock off with all sorts of bugs and below average picture quality for the projectors price point. The fact remains they wanted too much mmoney for the picture quality that you get.

All people want is decent native contrast, a good dynamic iris implementation, decent optics and a few bells and whistles like 3D, smart sharpening, and smooth motion. Throw in a decent amount of lumens and they'll fly off the shelves. Its honestly not that hard...
Yeah, it really doesn't feel like high-end equipment. I got an awesome deal on it so the price is right, and the money is not the issue. And the PQ is fine with me - except the colors. Basically as a consumer you have a choice between watching pic with sh!tty colors or spending another $1K for professional calibration - I don't find either choice appealing.

I got it for the LED and the 3D - basically that's the upgrade from my previous projector. The LED does work - (almost) instant on/off, and I don't need to worry about leaving the projector on for a long time and burning lamp time. Haven't tried the 3D yet - will shortly. But the kinks kind of almost make it feel not a real upgrade.

As for the Sim - I saw that but it's completely different price point. There's got to be something else to make me spend this kind of money. And looking at its spec-ed luments - I don't see that much difference from the Optoma. $10K buys you 1200 lumens vs 1000 lumens in the $4K Optoma (which was way less than $4K actually), and $14K buys you another 200 lumens. I know it would be a whole different experience but I don't see myself spending something like that for the 200 lumens. Then again I'm not really the target customer for that level projector. What I really was looking for was 1080p 3D LED projector in $3-4K range without major issues - and the HD1 is the only thing on the market (and in my case - for less).
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post #1235 of 1240 Old Today, 08:13 AM
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Here are AVForums settings for the HD91 -- it's a start.

"Display Mode: Reference

Contrast: -12

Brightness: 0

Colour: 0

Tint: 0

Sharpness: 8

Advanced

Gamma: Film

LED Brightness: 100%

Colour Settings

Colour Temperature: D65

Colour Gamut: HDTV

Colour Space: Auto

RGB Channel: Normal

RGB Gain/Bias: Red Gain -1, Green Gain 0, Blue Gain +2, Red Bias -2, Green Bias +2, Blue Bias -3

CMS: Red (X Offset 0, Y Offset -5, Brightness -13), Green (+1, 0, +50), Blue (-2, -9, -5), Cyan (+3, +12, +13), Magenta (-3, -10, -8), Yellow (-3, +4, +17)

Pure Engine

UltraDetail: Off

PureColour: Off

PureMotion: Off

Display

Format: Native"
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post #1236 of 1240 Old Today, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Like I said in the other thread. Wait for the new Sim2 projectors before making these claims. The marketing sheets from Sim2 on these new models are worded completely different, in that, it seems like these truly are a different breed of LEDs. It's only been 1 model from Digital Projection and 1 model from Sim2 that didn't meet the 1000 lumen claim spec (these are the only two so far to make the claim). And iirc they said 1000 lumens with the H-K effect. The others from Runco, Vivitek, and others have all claimed ~700 lumens. And just like bulb projectors the claimed lumen output is not in its calibrated mode, but it's brightest mode. I'm sure in the brightest modes in it's native gamut at max zoom we'd see close to 1000 lumens.
You'll note I mentioned the new Sim2 projectors in my post. We'll need to wait and see how they measure after calibration in the real world. If there's one thing I've learned it is not to take the manufacturer's specs as being anything close to accurate. LEDs to date are not very bright -- hopefully this can be corrected and the price of LED projectors will continue to fall.

Kindly refer me to a bright LED HT projector that exists today in the hands of end users (measured at over 1000 lumens) that's under $20,000 (or for that matter over $20,000). If the Sim2 Nero achieves this feat it will be the exception. I'm interested in the Nero; however, three things concern me -- 1) its actual calibrated brightness, 2) its native on/off contrast and 3) how smooth and effective the DB will be.

Why all the love for Sim2? -- $10K price tag for the Nero, a relatively poor native on/off contrast, no 4K or even faux 4K, a DB system that in the past most won't use, and so far LED projectors that are not very bright. Isn't last year's JVC 500 a much better buy at a fraction of the price?

Last edited by Deja Vu; Today at 08:41 AM.
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post #1237 of 1240 Unread Today, 03:57 PM
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Thx Deja Vu for the settings.
The reviewers said Cinema is best to calibrate so I tried working on that, but I can see what these settings do for Reference.
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post #1238 of 1240 Unread Today, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
You'll note I mentioned the new Sim2 projectors in my post. We'll need to wait and see how they measure after calibration in the real world. If there's one thing I've learned it is not to take the manufacturer's specs as being anything close to accurate. LEDs to date are not very bright -- hopefully this can be corrected and the price of LED projectors will continue to fall.

Kindly refer me to a bright LED HT projector that exists today in the hands of end users (measured at over 1000 lumens) that's under $20,000 (or for that matter over $20,000). If the Sim2 Nero achieves this feat it will be the exception. I'm interested in the Nero; however, three things concern me -- 1) its actual calibrated brightness, 2) its native on/off contrast and 3) how smooth and effective the DB will be.

Why all the love for Sim2? -- $10K price tag for the Nero, a relatively poor native on/off contrast, no 4K or even faux 4K, a DB system that in the past most won't use, and so far LED projectors that are not very bright. Isn't last year's JVC 500 a much better buy at a fraction of the price?


They aren't bright by the standard made within the last 3 or so years. The proliferation of 3D into the consumer world forced a race for brightness within the home theater segment of projectors. The LEDs just haven't kept up. 600+ calibrated lumens is still bright enough to fill a decently large screen for 2D viewing. And I won't refer you to any projectors that can do 1000+ calibrated lumens because, like I said in my previous post, there are only two out there that have made this claim and came up short. This is something you already knew. But I also said manufacturers claim those lumens before calibration in their brightest mode (regardless of light source technology). I'm sure they came a lot closer to those claims in those ideal modes. I don't defend the the Sim2 Nero 3 because I think it's a great projector suited well for my needs. I defend it only because you're implicating it to not reach the claims before anyone has even tested one out. So because of this I defend it until proven otherwise. Most likely it won't reach 1000+ calibrated lumens, but I would make a wager it's brighter than 600 lumens after calibration. The same goes for it's dynamic black mode. Sim2 claims a complete retooling of the algorithms. Wait until someone with experience with DIs get's a chance to take a look at it.

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post #1239 of 1240 Unread Today, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
They aren't bright by the standard made within the last 3 or so years. The proliferation of 3D into the consumer world forced a race for brightness within the home theater segment of projectors. The LEDs just haven't kept up. 600+ calibrated lumens is still bright enough to fill a decently large screen for 2D viewing. And I won't refer you to any projectors that can do 1000+ calibrated lumens because, like I said in my previous post, there are only two out there that have made this claim and came up short. This is something you already knew. But I also said manufacturers claim those lumens before calibration in their brightest mode (regardless of light source technology). I'm sure they came a lot closer to those claims in those ideal modes. I don't defend the the Sim2 Nero 3 because I think it's a great projector suited well for my needs. I defend it only because you're implicating it to not reach the claims before anyone has even tested one out. So because of this I defend it until proven otherwise. Most likely it won't reach 1000+ calibrated lumens, but I would make a wager it's brighter than 600 lumens after calibration. The same goes for it's dynamic black mode. Sim2 claims a complete retooling of the algorithms. Wait until someone with experience with DIs get's a chance to take a look at it.
I'm looking forward to Zombie's evaluation of the Nero 3. I'm hoping it does live up to all claims -- it would be good for projectors in general and for LED projectors in particular. It would also represent a price breakthrough for Sim2 if the Nero 3 turns out to be an exceptional projector in the 10K range. If Sim2 gets the DB to work extremely well then this will also be a breakthrough for DLPs in general. Here's hoping.
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post #1240 of 1240 Unread Today, 05:27 PM
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I think somewhere close to 900 calibrated lumens (which will last for thousands of hours) would be excellent. If they can reach ~2500:1 native contrast, which is possible for the .65" DMDs as seen in the Runco LS-10i, dynamically we can get to ~12000-15000:1 with a decently smooth DI algorithm. This amount of lumen output would be excellent for 3D, because the only other high contrast brighter projectors that do 3D are the Sony 4Ks. Zombie says the JVC's are around 700 lumens in 3D mode and I'm assuming the new LS10000 will probably take a loss in 3D mode as well. I hope this model doesn't.

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