Alignment issues with Sony HW50ES - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I posted a few weeks back that I was having issues with my Sony Projector. Yesterday I mounted my Elite screen and I am still having the same problem as I was when i was using the wall as a screen.

I aligned the top perfectly but the bottom slopes downward from left to right.

I have adjusted the ceiling mount in all ways, I am not using any other settings on the projector other than the manual zoom, left & right adjustment, and the up & down adjustment. It seems to me if the top is perfectly straight, the bottom should run parallel to the top. This just isn't the case.

I'm growing pretty frustrated with this and am ready to call Sony to get a replacement. Here is a picture with the grid:
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post #2 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 12:33 PM
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How far off is it on the bottom? My Benq7000 is fine along the top but the bottom far right is off by 1/4". I'm probably just going to overscan a little bit to hide it. I also use making which helps. My JVC is perfect in this regard.

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post #3 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 02:16 PM
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Your logic only works if the projector rays are perpendicular to the screen surface both vertically and horizontally at image center. I suspect they are not, despite what intuition might say. And yes, we have all squirmed and then had it click into place. If it slopes downward to the right, that corner is farther away.

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post #4 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 03:33 PM
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Dumb question. I did see that you had the same problem with just the wall but is your Elite screen hung properly or is it the screen itself?
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post #5 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post

Your logic only works if the projector rays are perpendicular to the screen surface both vertically and horizontally at image center. I suspect they are not, despite what intuition might say. And yes, we have all squirmed and then had it click into place. If it slopes downward to the right, that corner is farther away.

Ok, i understand what you're saying but wouldn't the top also have the sloping effect if the projector isn't perpendicular? It makes no sense to me that the top is perfect yet the bottom has this problem. The opening is perfectly square. Its the same distance measuring the top from left to right as it is the bottom from left to right.

I can try turning the mount more so that the right side is "closer" or "square" and see what happens, but I suspect that isnt the problem
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post #6 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post

Dumb question. I did see that you had the same problem with just the wall but is your Elite screen hung properly or is it the screen itself?

I've had the problem with both the screen and the wall surface
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Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

How far off is it on the bottom? My Benq7000 is fine along the top but the bottom far right is off by 1/4". I'm probably just going to overscan a little bit to hide it. I also use making which helps. My JVC is perfect in this regard.

Tom
The bottom is prob off about an inch and a half
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post #7 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 05:55 PM
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I have the exact same issue with my Sony 95ES. I can make it level on top (or bottom) and perfect on the sides but the bottom (or top) is out. I asked when I first purchased (in the 95 forum) and did not get anyone else responding they had the same issue.

I am living with it. I think I was out the same amount as you - maybe a little less. The amount it is out is impossible to notice when watching movies but it still bothers me.
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post #8 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaHomeTheatre View Post

I have the exact same issue with my Sony 95ES. I can make it level on top (or bottom) and perfect on the sides but the bottom (or top) is out. I asked when I first purchased (in the 95 forum) and did not get anyone else responding they had the same issue.

I am living with it. I think I was out the same amount as you - maybe a little less. The amount it is out is impossible to notice when watching movies but it still bothers me.

Yeah, i understand the whole "living with it".Im more frustrated and annoyed that I spent good money on this projector and am having this issue. I guess I will have to give Sony a call on Tuesday
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post #9 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 06:30 PM
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Vlubbers is right. This isn't a projector issue, you're just not properly lined up yet (assuming your screen is plumb and perpendicular to the projector).

You need to aim the projector (physically) further left, and start lens shifting and adjusting accordingly. It'll start moving into place.
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post #10 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdiddy4224 View Post

Yeah, i understand the whole "living with it".Im more frustrated and annoyed that I spent good money on this projector and am having this issue. I guess I will have to give Sony a call on Tuesday

cdiddy,

Don't sweat it, you've got to just roll with it! And by that I don't mean what you think I mean...

I concur with Vlubbers and Fat Dave that this is most likely a positioning issue that can be solved. I had the same problem with my brand new PT-AE8000U, which is a much less expensive projector, and it drove me nuts for a while, until I figured it out.

In my explanation I'm going to use the aircraft flight terminology of yaw, pitch, and roll because that will make it easier. If you're not familiar, check out the Wikipedia page.

The root of your problem I believe is that your projector is rolled, or banked, to the right (as you face the screen). Meaning the picture is spun a few degrees clockwise. Now you might be thinking, no, that's not the problem, because if it were, wouldn't the upper left hand corner poke up, and wouldn't the upper edge slope down left to right just like the lower edge? Well yes, you'd be right assuming that roll were the only issue. However, my bet is that you're also yawed to the right, meaning your projector is pointed rightwards a little bit, generating a horizontal keystone effect.

Now here's the kicker. If you geometrically combine image rotation plus horizontal keystone, you can end up with an image that appears level on the top edge but sloped on the bottom edge, with no appreciable distortions in the left and right edges, which is exactly what your photograph shows.

In order to correct this, you need to straighten up and fly right. smile.gif That means first rolling to the left. You do that by tilting the right side of your projector up a bit. Tilt it up until the right side of the image pokes up above the upper right corner of the screen by an equal amount to how much it pokes below the bottom right corner. What you should end up with is a sideways trapezoid where the left side of the image is shorter than the right side. Then, yaw your projector to the left, which will shrink the right-hand side of the picture relative to the left-hand side. Do this until the picture is square, lens shift it back into the center of your screen (a move that conventional aircraft cannot make!), and...voila, problem solved!

In my case, my projector is table mounted, so this meant extending the right adjustable foot to tilt up the right side, and then turning the projector to the left. I had to do this because my floor slopes down to the right ever so slightly.

The non-intuitive part here, which stymied me for the longest time, is that I was only thinking about, and making adjustments to, yaw and pitch. But that alone can't fix this. You have to roll as well. My guess as to how you got into this mess is that you started with a rightward roll but didn't realize it. You tried to correct it by yawing right in order to level off the top edge of the screen, but in so doing turned a one-axis error into a two-axis error, which behaves a lot less intuitively, and is quite confusing. I did the same thing.

I hope this works for you!
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post #11 of 18 Old 02-17-2013, 10:58 PM
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See above. It is not a projector problem. It is inept set up. And please don't take offfense to that characterization. it is not intuitive. You can not twist the projector to center the image, if you do not have the lens exactly parallel to the screen it will look like this. If the screen is a plane and doesn't have a bend in it, suppose it is closer to the projector in one corner etc you must move the projector so that the lens surface mimicks that plane. You can not see it, just keep moving things until you get the perfect rectangle and then use lens shift to center left right or move it as you go. I know you are frustrated. We all have had to learn how to do this and unfortunately a few could never learn. Don't join that losers club. smile.gif

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post #12 of 18 Old 02-27-2013, 05:51 AM
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Xank,

Thanks for the excellent explanation. Have exactly the same issue, except that the tilt is towards the left lower corner, on a friend's PT-AE7000. The mount is very flexible and should be an easy fix now.
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post #13 of 18 Old 02-27-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xank View Post


The non-intuitive part here, which stymied me for the longest time, is that I was only thinking about, and making adjustments to, yaw and pitch. But that alone can't fix this. You have to roll as well. My guess as to how you got into this mess is that you started with a rightward roll but didn't realize it. You tried to correct it by yawing right in order to level off the top edge of the screen, but in so doing turned a one-axis error into a two-axis error, which behaves a lot less intuitively, and is quite confusing. I did the same thing.

I hope this works for you!

Maybe someone already said this, but just to add to this, don't forget to project a test pattern (runway lights?) to make it easier to see where the geometric distortion is. Hence, I usually use the tic tac toe / grid patterns that are built into the projectors to do this.
The first time I tried this, i ended up with too much pitch, went into a stall, and my PJ came crashing at the ground (only kidding) smile.gif
Make sure when doing this, all the screws are tight enough to actually hold the PJ onto the mount...


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post #14 of 18 Old 03-02-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Maybe someone already said this, but just to add to this, don't forget to project a test pattern (runway lights?) to make it easier to see where the geometric distortion is. Hence, I usually use the tic tac toe / grid patterns that are built into the projectors to do this.

Good suggestion. Grid pattern makes it much easier to make these adjustments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The first time I tried this, i ended up with too much pitch, went into a stall, and my PJ came crashing at the ground (only kidding) smile.gif
Make sure when doing this, all the screws are tight enough to actually hold the PJ onto the mount...

Ha ha. One time my projector flew through another projector's exhaust, ended up in a unrecoverable flat spin, and the green LCD panel was fatally damaged while punching out. The red panel was devastated and quit working shortly thereafter.
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post #15 of 18 Old 03-03-2013, 11:18 AM
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The biggest set up problem is withrotation around the vertical access to get the projector lens horizontally parallel to the plane of the screen. This will often result in the image not being horizontaly centered on the screen which should not be then centered by left right rotation.
the simplest and least overall important adjustment is left right tilt. just match the top grid line to the top edge of the screen tilt wise. the second easiest adjustment is the up down tilt which should be adjusted so the top and bottom horizontal grid lines are of equal length. The hardest is the left right adjustment rotational wise Its a bitch to get it right and due to mounting error, getting the projector lens mount in the left right center of the screen The one must use lefft right horizontal lens shift to center the image or remount or add a horizontal lens shift bracket to the mount and adjust that, the easiest and best solution.

If any grid line is not straight, but curved or cosisting or a line that breaks in another direction, the screen is not in one plane and must be fixed by shimming the frame.

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post #16 of 18 Old 01-30-2014, 10:04 AM
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Are there any laser tools that members can use to help in the alignment process?

On found this thread that maybe of interest to some on this project:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/522974/laser-alignment-for-projector-screen-set-up

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post #17 of 18 Old 01-30-2014, 01:59 PM
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I appear to have a curve in the middle of the bottom edge of my screen. I suppose its possible this is the screen, which I will test. If it is the projector, does that mean it should be tilted forward more? (i.e. the lens tilted more toward the ground).

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post #18 of 18 Old 01-30-2014, 02:50 PM
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The projector can not project a curved active image edge from a rectangular chip. The problem is your screen being bowed out along the bottom edge if the curve is pointed towards the screen center. If the curve is pointed out, the screen is bowed out. Shim under the frame edges to make your screen a single plane and readjust your projector alignment as necessary. Hope this helps. It is the correct answer to your issue.

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