Does it really make a difference painting your movie living room dark or even black? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 78 Old 03-06-2013, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

so what are you guys covering your ceilings with?

I am using a combination of the velvet and flat black paint. My ventilation system covers the first 3' of width across my ceiling and comes right down to the screen frame, so I wanted to make sure to use velvet here to kill off reflections. The rest of my ceiling is about 1' above the screen which is just flat black paint right now. I wish I would have just done the whole ceiling in velvet right off the bat, but will do the remaining part (at least the first 5-6' of it out from the screen) at some point when I get a wild hair. I might even use Protostar here just for the convenience factor of the adhesive back vs having to stretch/tack the velvet which is a bit of a pain on the ceiling.

Is the Protostar adhesive good enough to stick to a drywall ceiling without fear of it coming off?
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post #62 of 78 Old 03-06-2013, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

so what are you guys covering your ceilings with?

My ceiling is currently dark brown felt. Click the first link under my signature to see shots of the room with ceiling.

It's very dark, better than paint. The only thing is since I've got all other surface areas covered in black velvet now, it's perfect pitch black around the image everywhere except the ceiling which I can see as lighter in comparison. So, insane AVSer that I am, I'm putting another curtain rod (hidden) over my screen. A 64" (or so) tall velvet curtain will hang from that curtain rod, stacked to the right of the screen. When I've feeling like I want the best possible experience, I'll pull the curtain across the screen wall, and then raise the corners to hooks on the ceiling, so that Fidelio black velvet curtain will cover the whole front of the ceiling making it jet black entirely.

Another benefit to the darkness of the Fidelio velvet is that, having tested adding another layer of stacked side curtain to one side of the screen, I was afraid it might look unbalanced. However, the Fidelio is so dark that under all but the brightest lighting, you can't even make out any additional velvet stacked against the existing velvet. It's all one black hole.
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post #63 of 78 Old 03-06-2013, 09:08 AM
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the adhesive is very strong, there's no way this stuff is coming off a surface without destroying it. I made 1 mistake on 1 grid section (out of 200) and it took me an hours to scrap it all off. going forward, I had to be meticulous with the placement before pressing it down on the surface.
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post #64 of 78 Old 03-06-2013, 09:12 AM
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Fidelio velvet is what I used. I couldn't remember the name of it until your post Rich. I think it cost me around $1,500 to cover my little 11x13 screening room some years ago. I use it for all of my homemade masking panels and to cover my LCR's and two tall SVS subs.

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post #65 of 78 Old 03-06-2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

the adhesive is very strong, there's no way this stuff is coming off a surface without destroying it. I made 1 mistake on 1 grid section (out of 200) and it took me an hours to scrap it all off. going forward, I had to be meticulous with the placement before pressing it down on the surface.

Thanks for the heads up! I will be sure to spend some extra time to get it right if I end up using Protostar.

A bit off topic, but you guys should check out Wreck it Ralph if you have not done so yet. This is the latest animated jaw dropper and really shows off our displays. cool.gif I watched the 2d last night, but am curious to check out the 3d next watch. Solid audio as well.

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post #66 of 78 Old 03-27-2013, 04:43 PM
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I have my room painted flat black and a dark grey yet still have some reflections from the ceiling. It does also make me realize how much light reflects from everything else and that my projector does not have very good black levels. I would be concerned about velvet being flammable if I had a room covered in it.

I find it depressing to stay in a blacked out room for more than 1 movie. We are buying a large plasma to hang behind the screen. I know that a dark room can make it more immersive but most of the time I would rather have the lights on. I may end up using the plasma more than the projector.
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post #67 of 78 Old 03-27-2013, 05:00 PM
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I used a deep dark blue/purple on my ceiling. The color guy found a "light absorption index" and used that to select paints. But my ceiling is also a 6/12 pitch that slopes up from the screen and that helps a tremendous amount in taming ceiling reflections back to the screen. It peaks at 17' roughly over the second row's foot area. I have 4 sets of cable lights with 5 down firing lights on each run, so 20 down-firing lights in a 4 x 5 grid at about 9 feet. The area above them is a black void when they're on and continues to be a black void when they're off and the movie is playing.
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post #68 of 78 Old 03-27-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JediSpork View Post

I have my room painted flat black and a dark grey yet still have some reflections from the ceiling. It does also make me realize how much light reflects from everything else and that my projector does not have very good black levels. I would be concerned about velvet being flammable if I had a room covered in it.

I find it depressing to stay in a blacked out room for more than 1 movie. We are buying a large plasma to hang behind the screen. I know that a dark room can make it more immersive but most of the time I would rather have the lights on. I may end up using the plasma more than the projector.

As much as I love my blacked out room and would not want it any other way all things considered, I know exactly what you mean. There are definitely times when I dont want to hang out in "the dungeon", especially if it is a more social occasion. I love my HT, but it does not always suit my mood. Sometimes I opt to watch upstairs in the bright, open more cheery atmosphere when I dont feel like hanging out in a black pit. I like having the option of both rooms and most of the time I love the HT and the focus it lends to whatever is being experienced in it. Having said that, if I only had one viewing room, I would honestly probably opt for the more open, cheery and inviting atmosphere of the upstairs living room and deal with the compromises to PQ brought on by light colored walls, floor, ceiling, etc.........

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post #69 of 78 Old 03-28-2013, 12:18 PM
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Funny that I'm doing that now with a light coloured living room and I'd love to have a dedicated room decorated in blacks and dark greys. We always seem to want what we haven't got. biggrin.gif

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post #70 of 78 Old 03-28-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

We always seem to want what we haven't got. biggrin.gif

True! tongue.gif

I really love what RichH has done with his room which can give you BOTH types of viewing environments. Nice, open, bright and happy living room type setting when it fits the mood, or when you want to do some focused and serious viewing, pull all the curtains and black out the room. cool.gif Your room looks perfect for doing something similar Kelvin! If I ever turned my upstairs family room into a HT room, I would definitely look to do something similar to what he has done.

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post #71 of 78 Old 03-28-2013, 01:26 PM
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Yes, I'm planning something a little bit along Rich's lines (he's been an inspiration for a few years on this matter) but I can't have curtains each side to pull out due to the furniture. Instead I plan on extending the screen pelmet forwards beyond my ceiling light and having drop down curtains and ceiling cover inside. I'm in the middle of a major bedroom DIY project right now, so it will come later this year (I hope). The dedicated room will be 2-3 years at least, in other words after I upgrade my X35. smile.gif

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post #72 of 78 Old 04-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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Speaking of ceilings, any ideas on how use velvet or Protostar on a cathedral ceiling that is textured? I painted the ceiling very dark red, but would like to blacken the ceiling from the top of the screen back at least one screen height.
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post #73 of 78 Old 08-17-2013, 10:37 PM
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Having seen the improvement that Zombie's ceiling blackout made via his excellent pictures, I am now looking at ways to accomplish that in my home theater room. I'll have to go the black cloth/velvet route because paint isn't really possible. My ceiling is white and heavily textured (picture endless sea of small spikes). There is really no way to paint it unless you spray painted, and that would be more than a little too risky to attempt. Not to mention that there is no way to clean the surface before painting, and its 20 years old, so more than a bit dusty, etc.

And so, I will need some kind of black fabric. I've had little luck finding the brands of black velvet mentioned here, online, for sale. Also, someone mentioned having to spend over $1,500.00 just for a small room. I will need two 8x8 foot pieces for the ceiling, and two 8x6 foot pieces for the front portion of the side walls, and it has to be inexpensive. How to attach it though? Just spread it out while having help holding it, and tack it to the ceiling? I cant use anything like adhesive, since it would destroy the patch of ceiling surface that it touched.

Any recommendations, or help would be appreciated.


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post #74 of 78 Old 08-18-2013, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

To some degree it can have the reverse affect... it becomes much more noticeable your black level isn't quite as good as you thought. When you have predominantly dark scenes and your environment is really dark all of a sudden you begin to notice your image looks washed out. At least this is what I have noticed over the years as my room has become darker and darker. If one cuts down on the obvious reflections I think you're in good shape. As an example you can see how much my ivory trim (click on my Avatar) shows up during a viewing.






I have also noticed if my room is very dark I have to reduce the projector's light output or my eyes get tired from
fighting
the brightness.

I actually had a similar experience. I have a jvc x35, so pretty darn good blacks(better than nearly all the plasmas on the market now) and with my room painted 'medium' brown it looked fantastic. still, I found the room got lit up by the images on screen, and wondered if the picture could get even better, and if I could reduce the amount of the room that would 'distract' me during viewing. so I painted the ceiling black(from white), the top half of my walls dark blue and the bottom half black.

I did notice less of the room during viewing, and I was surprised to find the room felt larger. not what I was expecting at all, but with the black ceiling it kind of felt like there was no ceiling. the room just felt taller and more spacious. I also found that I was more comfortable closing up the iris on my jvc than I was before. but, what I didn't like was that due to the dimmer picture(closed the iris), and much dimmer room, I guess my eyes adjusted to the darker level and the inky blacks I loved on the jvc now looked like 'good' blacks and I could clearly see the outline of the screen now. watching a dark movie, I was less impressed with the black levels. watching a bright movie, the fades to black still look pitch black. but if it stays blacks for 20seconds or longer that's enough time for my eyes to adjust and the blacks don't look so black anymore.

between my personal experience and what I've read from others, i'm beginning to believe it's more important to make sure absolutely no ambient light enters the room, than to have a completely black cave. the only time your white walls/ceiling will light up the screen is when the screen is bright. and when the screen is bright, your irises close up, and dark greys look black anyway. the only time your walls/ceiling will drastically affect a dark image on screen is if there's light shining on them other than from the projector.

honestly, I feel like i'm far more sensitive to all the lighting flaws in my room now that I've gone black/dark blue. it could be I'm paying more attention, but I really believe it's a matter of my eyes staying adjusted to a dark environment and being more sensitive now.

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post #75 of 78 Old 08-18-2013, 09:43 PM
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In a black pit (like mine) yes it really does challenge the black levels of a display - they are competing against true pitch black in the room. Most people don't watch their plasma that way so the black levels don't get tested like that. At one point I was thinking our LCD downstairs seemed to have better black levels than my JVC RS55 projector. But then I turned off the lights in the room and viewed that way, dark scenes on the LCD showed the black levels were lighter than the projector black levels. Had I placed the LCD TV against a perfectly pitch black backdrop like my projected image, it would have fared even worse. But the issue of black levels in a bat cave type environment is one reason I want even deeper black levels from a projector.

The trade offs are worth it though, for me. First, in most scenes the black levels look terrific. But the floating image in black effect gives a vividness, dimensionality and immersiveness that doesn't quite happen in a non-blacked out environment. Second, the way a bat cave truly cuts down on room reflections maintains the ANSI-type contrast and the over all contrast in a consistent way. The picture just looks more rock solid and believable when the intra-scene contrast isn't rising and falling, washing out, as brighter areas of the image increase room reflections. When I try to watch my image without the black curtains around the room that's the first thing I miss: the dynamics of the image contrast and it's rock solid stability. It's much more satisfying.
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post #76 of 78 Old 08-18-2013, 09:47 PM
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Just added 41 inches of black velvet in front of a 110" HP 2.8 lit by a Planar 8150 and YES it makes a big difference in submersion! Now tomorrow I will add another 16-36" of curved velvet in front of what I have for a softer look.
One CON, it really does feel heavy after 21 years of walking under white.. but I will just have to get used to it!
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post #77 of 78 Old 08-18-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

In a black pit (like mine) yes it really does challenge the black levels of a display - they are competing against true pitch black in the room. Most people don't watch their plasma that way so the black levels don't get tested like that. At one point I was thinking our LCD downstairs seemed to have better black levels than my JVC RS55 projector. But then I turned off the lights in the room and viewed that way, dark scenes on the LCD showed the black levels were lighter than the projector black levels. Had I placed the LCD TV against a perfectly pitch black backdrop like my projected image, it would have fared even worse. But the issue of black levels in a bat cave type environment is one reason I want even deeper black levels from a projector.

The trade offs are worth it though, for me. First, in most scenes the black levels look terrific. But the floating image in black effect gives a vividness, dimensionality and immersiveness that doesn't quite happen in a non-blacked out environment. Second, the way a bat cave truly cuts down on room reflections maintains the ANSI-type contrast and the over all contrast in a consistent way. The picture just looks more rock solid and believable when the intra-scene contrast isn't rising and falling, washing out, as brighter areas of the image increase room reflections. When I try to watch my image without the black curtains around the room that's the first thing I miss: the dynamics of the image contrast and it's rock solid stability. It's much more satisfying.

i hate watching anything with lights on. with my CRT RPTV i NEVER had a light on in the room. down to the point i put tape over anything that had the little red 'power lights' on.

from plasmas and lcd, i got into the habit of using bias lighting as it was the only way anything close to black was simulated. this year i upgraded my tv with the samsung f8500. after doing that, there was no way my old projector was getting used again, so i upgraded that to the jvc x35. i've had them both on playing the same content in the same room at the same time and the x35 is definitely darker(on both ends) and contrast seems to be pretty close between the two. the f8500 is probably much higher ansi, but it's so bright i find i actually need to keep the contrast down to see details in the shadows(not because of the display either, if i cover the bright area with my hand and give my eyes a little time to adjust, the details are there).

anyway, i would absolutely agree there's still a lot of benefits to the blacked out room. probably the greatest of which is that 'floating screen' effect. i'm sure ansi contrast also increases, but i feel like for me and my eyes, the displays are already capable of 'perfect' ansi contrast. meaning my eyes see less than the displays are capable of(see f8500 example above). and of course you can still use bias lighting to gain back the apparently darker black floor if necessary. so really, any negative effect can be easily fixed. i'm just saying don't expect a black room to magically make the picture looked perfect. there are some trade offs(like an increased sensitivity to light), and it might take two or three more tweaks and adjustments after going black to get the most out of your projector.

i feel like i've just started down a slippery slope. the darker i make the room, the more i notice issues with light. the little stuff(av gear displays, digital clocks, etc) now have a noticeable affect on my screen. when i turn all of those off, i still see some light being reflected and refracted giving me a faint line down my screen that i need to track down now too. the super faint, but 'above black' level of ambient light used to hide all this completely. and the bright image and brighter room used to keep my eyes adjusted more for a bright room making the slightly brighter blacks look about as dark anyway. so i still have a catch-22 happening. the darker i make my room, the better my eyes are at seeing in the dark. basically, if you don't have a washed out image, and problems with your ansi contrast, it may not be worth the arguments with the wife, the time and effort to paint/cover everything, and fact your room becomes pretty useless for anything other than watching movies. imo, it's a major upgrade for a dedicated theatre, but an unnecessary one for a great media room
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post #78 of 78 Old 06-16-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by zombie10k 

so what are you guys covering your ceilings with?


I am using a combination of the velvet and flat black paint. My ventilation system covers the first 3' of width across my ceiling and comes right down to the screen frame, so I wanted to make sure to use velvet here to kill off reflections. The rest of my ceiling is about 1' above the screen which is just flat black paint right now. I wish I would have just done the whole ceiling in velvet right off the bat, but will do the remaining part (at least the first 5-6' of it out from the screen) at some point when I get a wild hair. I might even use Protostar here just for the convenience factor of the adhesive back vs having to stretch/tack the velvet which is a bit of a pain on the ceiling.

Is the Protostar adhesive good enough to stick to a drywall ceiling without fear of it coming off?
Is there any special prep for a drywalled ceiling for this to work? We have not even mudded our ceiling yet. I was debating on gettings some strofoam panels and glueing the material to them and then glueing the panels to the ceiling. Would it be better to just glue this to the ceiling instead?

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