Official Runco LS-1 Owners Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 03-13-2013, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I might be the only member for now on AVS, but what the hey... I always wanted to belong to an exclusive club cool.gif

from the Runco product page:




Specifications
Model (Family) LS-1 (Runco LightStyle Projectors)
Projector Type Digital Light Processing™ (DLP™), Single-Chip, 16:9 SuperOnyx™ DMD
Native Resolution Full HD, 1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratios Native (Pixel-to-Pixel), 16:9, Letterbox, 4:3, 4:3 narrow, Letterbox
Video Standards HDMI and DVI with HDCP for digital video, Component and RGB HDTV (1080p, 1080i, 720p), Component and RGB EDTV (576p, 480p), Component, Composite and S-Video SDTV (576i, 480i), RGB SCART with adaptor, NTSC (M, 4.43), PAL (B, G, H, I, N, M), SECAM (M)
DTV Compatibility 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i 50/60, 1080p, 24/50/60
Throw Distance Factor x Screen Width 1.85 - 2.40 (distance/width) - Standard lens
1.56 - 1.86 (distance/width) - Optional short throw lens
CineGlide 2.00-2.40 (distance/width)
CineGlide standard throw 14-24 feet (4.3 to 7.3 meters) typical
CineGlide Focus Match 1 17.5-20.5 feet (5.2 to 6.3 meters) typical
CineGlide Focus Match 2 20.5-24.0 feet (6.3 to 7.3 meters) typical
CineGlide Focus Match 3 24.0-29.0 feet (7.3 to 8.8 meters) typical
CineGlide Focus Match 4 29.0-40.0 feet (8.8 to 12.2 meters) typical
Horizontal & Vertical Offset Vertical: Up to 60% of screen height down, 25% up from center of screen ceiling mounted
Light Output CSMS Specifications: Home Theater Calibration: 541 ANSI Lumens; 35 Foot-Lamberts (fL); 780 ANSI Lumens
Contrast Ratio CSMS Contrast Ratio: 385:1; 10,000:1 typical (sequential)
Lamp 230W
Lamp Life 4000 hours
Inputs (2) HDMI; (1) Component; (1) RGB (HD15); (1) S-video; (1) Composite; (1) RS-232
Power Requirements 100V - 240V AC, at 50-60Hz, 350W
Operating Environments Temperature: 50-104 °F (10-40 °C)
Regulatory Approvals FCC Part 15 Class B, UL, cUL, CB, RoHS, WEEE, local conformances as required
12V Output 1 programmable
Picture Size (16:9 Screens) Recommended Width: 63-85in
Maximum Width: 106in
Dimensions Width: 17.9 in. (455mm)
Height: 7.8 in. (200mm)
Depth: 20.8 in. (530mm)
Lamp Warranty 1000 hours or (6) Six months, whichever comes first
Weight 23 lbs. (10.5kg)
Limited Warranty Projector: (2) Two years parts and labor from the date of shipment from Runco. Extended RuncoCare™, Red Carpet™, and PremierCare™ also available.
Processor Vivix™ technology processing
Control RS-232, IR remote
Calibration ISF Certified Calibration Configuration
Color Gamut > BT.709 (REC709)

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #2 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to Seegs, I was able to remove the cover of the LS-1 and take some pics of the internals:






"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #3 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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A few items of note from the specs and the brief inspection of internal bits:

The lamp is the same as for the LS-3, LS-5, PD8150 (230W)... but the LS-1 operates the lamp ONLY in eco (180w). The 'System' menu option for 'Lamp Power' is visible, but greyed out (not selectable).

The internal layout is identical to the PD8150 and nearly all the components appear the same (the main board looks slightly different though).
Wire management is a bit cleaner on the LS-1 compared to the Planar... maybe some board/wiring changes when Runco tweaked/rebadged the PD8150? would be nice to see if the internals of recent LS-3 or LS-5 have the same minor differences (e.g. a cable bundle common to both PJs has a choke in the LS-1, but not the PD8150).

The lens options for the LS-1 are the same as for the LS-3 and LS-5, with the same standard lens.

Given the same lens, and from the pics of the DMD with the lens removed, the DMD appears to be of the .95" variety and with the same spec'd contrast as the LS-3, I suspect it is the same DMD (.95" DC2). The width of the opening in front of the TIR prism is 1.25", and rough measurement of the DMD by comparison in the photo is .9" diagonal (again, measured from the photo, so admittedly a rough measurement and assuming no magnification through the TIR... any DLP optics folks want to comment on this?).

So... Is the LS-1 just a firmware-crippled LS-3? Sure looks like the LS-1 is an LS-3 limited to eco mode. Maybe that is why the only visible indication that the unit is an LS-1 is the sticker below the inputs in the last photo tongue.gif

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #4 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 10:55 AM
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The LS-3 has a Darkchip2 .95" DMD and the LS-5 has a Darkchip3 .95" DMD and the option of horizontal lens shift. That's what makes for the difference in contrast. The LS-1 seems to be the same as a LS-3 without the option of the higher lamp mode.
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post #5 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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corrected... thought I had heard both LS-3 and LS-5 had DC3. Thanks.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #6 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 11:29 AM
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I read somewhere the LS-1 is using newer smaller 0.65" chips.
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post #7 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

A few items of note from the specs and the brief inspection of internal bits:

The lamp is the same as for the LS-3, LS-5, PD8150 (230W)... but the LS-1 operates the lamp ONLY in eco (180w). The 'System' menu option for 'Lamp Power' is visible, but greyed out (not selectable).

The internal layout is identical to the PD8150 and nearly all the components appear the same (the main board looks slightly different though).
Wire management is a bit cleaner on the LS-1 compared to the Planar... maybe some board/wiring changes when Runco tweaked/rebadged the PD8150? would be nice to see if the internals of recent LS-3 or LS-5 have the same minor differences (e.g. a cable bundle common to both PJs has a choke in the LS-1, but not the PD8150).

The lens options for the LS-1 are the same as for the LS-3 and LS-5, with the same standard lens.

Given the same lens, and from the pics of the DMD with the lens removed, the DMD appears to be of the .95" variety and with the same spec'd contrast as the LS-3, I suspect it is the same DMD (.95" DC2). The width of the opening in front of the TIR prism is 1.25", and rough measurement of the DMD by comparison in the photo is .9" diagonal (again, measured from the photo, so admittedly a rough measurement and assuming no magnification through the TIR... any DLP optics folks want to comment on this?).

So... Is the LS-1 just a firmware-crippled LS-3? Sure looks like the LS-1 is an LS-3 limited to eco mode. Maybe that is why the only visible indication that the unit is an LS-1 is the sticker below the inputs in the last photo tongue.gif

Guessing here. But to operate in high lamp mode one would need a robust enough power supply and cooling to handle that mode. My guess is either or both are changed from the models that will operate in high mode. This would save some money in manufacturing since the eco only model is cheaper.

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post #8 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 11:41 AM
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From the pictures it looks exactly like the internals of my PD8150.
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post #9 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 11:42 AM
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What is the expected D65/R709 lumen output of this model?
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post #10 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 11:55 AM
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Runco is pretty accurate with their numbers. It comes calibrated VERY close to D65 out of the box, you just need to tweak it to your room and screen. That number is with brilliant color on (768 out whatever it is) so you can expect a 25% deduction from that number if you want to run the machine without BC on.
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post #11 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Guessing here. But to operate in high lamp mode one would need a robust enough power supply and cooling to handle that mode. My guess is either or both are changed from the models that will operate in high mode. This would save some money in manufacturing since the eco only model is cheaper.

That thought crossed my mind as well, but the LS-1 specifications for weight and power consumption are identical to those of the LS-3&5... maybe if someone could track down the Runco PSU part number we'd know for sure.

Seegs, care to open up your PD8150 and pull some numbers off the PSU and fans?

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #12 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 04:01 PM
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There really aren't too many numbers laying around without taking it apart more than you have. I didn't see any number around the power supply unfortunately. The fan that is vertically standing behind the DMD has a model number:

DC Brushless Model BFB0712LD - Delta Electronics Inc

And one of the side fans (on the opposite side of the light path) has a model number:

DC Brushless Model AFB0812LD - Delta Electronics Inc

Delta is the company who actually manufactures these units (along with MANY others units for various companies like Sim2, Vivitek and I think certain BenQ models) so most of the numbers you see will be for parts they manufactured, not Runco. There was a sticker on the motherboard that has a serial number:

AKGA02T19908023500041

I think that is just the serial number for my specific motherboard, but if it helps there it is.
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post #13 of 29 Old 03-14-2013, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Same fans, no sticker on control board. Most of the visible circuit boards have 'HT-8610' printed on them as well as their function: 'control board', 'thermal sensor', 'dmd board', etc. any such labels on the 8150 pcbs?

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #14 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 09:22 AM
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I'll take a look, but i think its safe to say at this point that its very close to a ls-3, just hindered through software.
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post #15 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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If you do, try to measure/estimate the width of the DMD chip which is visible on the DMD board by looking down through the gap behind the TIR prism.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #16 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

I read somewhere the LS-1 is using newer smaller 0.65" chips.
I've read it here as well, but have not seen anything to substantiate it... Runco is not talking wink.gif

With the same lens and light engine, I seriously doubt it is a .65" DMD, and with the same stated CR (Runco is supposedly fairly accurate on specs), I suspect it to be the exact same DMD as the LS-3. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that they changed PCBs when they rebranded the PD8150/8130 as the LS5/3 and put Runco video processing on it, and differentiated the LS-1 simply by removing the std power lamp option. It is very possible there are some cooling/PSU differences, we've just not been able to confirm nor refute this possibility.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #17 of 29 Old 03-15-2013, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Also just noticed Runco removed the BNC inputs from the PD8150, so the inputs are the same from throughout the LightStyle single chip projectors (LS-1/3/5/HB)... I'd be surprised if the control boards differed. Any LS-3/5/HB owners care to remove the cover from their unit to find out?

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #18 of 29 Old 03-16-2013, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Very impressed with the LS-1 so far... Needed a slight grayscale adjustment (maybe just for my HP screen), fantastic color, sharpness and pop. Excellent iris and surprisingly good blacks... obviously not jvc good, but better than I ever expected a DC2 DI system could be. Plenty bright on my 106" screen (too bright at times) with ~750 hrs on the lamp. Why, oh why doesn't anyone make a reasonably priced 3D .95" DMD DLP?

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #19 of 29 Old 03-20-2013, 08:10 AM
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I bought an LS-3 with short throw lens around 10 months ago. I'm very happy with the projector, color and contrast is fantastic so much better than the Optoma HD81-LV I had previously. It's a more natural and sophisticated image. With my Panamorph M380 anamorphic lens and Stewart Studiotek 130 2:35 100" wide screen, it's very filmic. I'm not seeing any chromatic aberration or soft corners, ANSI contrast looks like what I'd expect of a good DLP projector. When I've seen .65 DMD projectors in the past, they looked a bit soft, more like the JVC LCOS models. The only issue I've had with the LS3 is the occasional flicker on flat fields. Best of all, the Runco has been perfectly reliable, unlike the parade of Optoma HD-81 and HD81-LV failures I experienced. I'm sure the LS-1 will serve you well!
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post #20 of 29 Old 03-20-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post

I bought an LS-3 with short throw lens around 10 months ago. I'm very happy with the projector, color and contrast is fantastic so much better than the Optoma HD81-LV I had previously. It's a more natural and sophisticated image. With my Panamorph M380 anamorphic lens and Stewart Studiotek 130 2:35 100" wide screen, it's very filmic. I'm not seeing any chromatic aberration or soft corners, ANSI contrast looks like what I'd expect of a good DLP projector. When I've seen .65 DMD projectors in the past, they looked a bit soft, more like the JVC LCOS models. The only issue I've had with the LS3 is the occasional flicker on flat fields. Best of all, the Runco has been perfectly reliable, unlike the parade of Optoma HD-81 and HD81-LV failures I experienced. I'm sure the LS-1 will serve you well!

Any chance I can convince you to pop the cover and get the numbers off the PCB? Takes about 5 minutes if your access is unhindered. I can PM you instructions if you are game.

I've been playing around with the 'constant contrast', 'adaptive contrast' and 'satco'. Never liked TI's brilliant color, and still don't (while the Runco implementation is not offensive, I still like it better without). I certainly like having the DI on, but have not yet found settings where I like adaptive contrast with movies... looks OK with HDTV sports and such (I think I might prefer watching these with AC), but for movies the crushed blacks and whites are an unacceptable tradeoff for the added pop... skin becomes a bit plasticy with AC... I definitely prefer to leave it off for movies.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #21 of 29 Old 03-21-2013, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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far from a well executed photo, but the phone will have to suffice at this hour. Loving the image this PJ throws.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #22 of 29 Old 03-21-2013, 08:40 AM
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What is the difference between an LS1 and and LS3 ? I saw the LS5 at a dealer and loved the picture and may be able to get the LS1 as an open box at a 15% discount from the dealer. Tempted but don;t know the differences (i.e. I have the technical differences but do not understand in practical terms is it that much different). I currently have a dark room, with a 96" I believe 1 gain screen - and have a old Sony Pearl 50 which I would be replacing. Its either get the LS1 or perhaps a used Sony 95 or so. Thoughts / advice ?

Tarun

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post #23 of 29 Old 03-21-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as I can tell (by comparison to a pd8150), the only difference is the lack of a high lamp mode. Does the open box come with full warranty? Seegs might have some input as far as comparison with the Sony... not sure if he's seen the 95, but recently viewed the 50.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #24 of 29 Old 03-21-2013, 12:57 PM
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It all depends on what your tastes are. I would say if you are happy with the contrast and black level that the Sony Pearl is capable of then the Runco LS-5 would be a great upgrade. You'll get the same contrast but all the benefits of a single chip DLP. Sharper picture, better light uniformity, much better motion, and (I think) better picture quality over many generations old SXRD. But if you're looking to step up the contrast the VW95 is a great choice and would also be a step over the Pearl in a few areas as well.
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post #25 of 29 Old 03-03-2014, 11:10 PM
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I am a Runco LS-1 owner too but just a novice. We just installed ours and it makes a lot of noise. Have you done anything to reduce the noise of your LS-1? Our room is 11 1/2 x 15 so it may be a little small for the LS - 1 I'd appreciate any of your thoughts. Thanks.
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post #26 of 29 Old 03-03-2014, 11:15 PM
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I'm assuming you mean the fan noise is loud. Other than the fans, there shouldn't be any other distinct noises that you can normally hear when the projector is on. Make sure the projector isn't in high altitude mode. This forces the fans to spin very fast and can be quite noisy. There is an option in the menus to disable it. Seeing how the projector can't go into a high lamp mode, which would cause the fans to ramp up, if the projector fan noise is too loud and it's not in high altitude mode there is little you can do to reduce the noise. The only other option would be to build a hush box.
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post #27 of 29 Old 03-10-2014, 09:07 AM
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I also own a Runco LS-1 projecting on a 100" Stewart Firehawk G3 screen and while I do like the picture that I get from this projector I find it very loud and It all depends on what materia I am watching. If I am playing a blu-ray at 24fps it is much quieter then if I am watching regular TV at 60fps and I am not sure if this is the fan or the colour wheel making the extra noise. I unfortuantely was unaware of this when I purchased the unit as I only ever demoed blu-ray movies before buying. If I could do it all over again I would have went with a different manufacturer with a quieter projector as I am in a smaller room.
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post #28 of 29 Old 03-10-2014, 11:06 AM
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Do you use 2 different inputs or different calibration memory slots depending on BR or TV? All settings including modes and lamp (hi/low) can be saved in the calibration memory slots or per input.. so it is possible that if you are using a different input or memory, the projector is set to high lamp when you are on the setting/input for TV..
On the other hand, if you just swich inputs with your receiver I find it very odd that the sound changes..
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post #29 of 29 Old 03-11-2014, 08:03 AM
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I use the same calibration and only 1 HDMI input to the projector that gets switched on my receiver depending if I am watching a blu-ray or TV...I also believe the Runco LS-1 only has a low lamp mode so that is why I was thinking the sound I might be hearing is the colour wheel spinning quicker depending on the FPS
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