what projector will do all of this? 2.35 screen, 140" diagonal 1.0 gain - zoom and shift presets? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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This room will be completely light controlled. I was planning on using a Seymour XD. I have done some reading on the BenQ W6000 and Panasonic PT-AE8000u. . My room is 17' X 25' with 3 rows of seating. 140" diagonal would work well in theory.

My dealers says my screen needs to be smaller and they also suggest a higher gain non acoustically transparent screen for any of the projectors that we have discussed. They have mentioned the JVC X55R and have also talked Epson 6020, but the Epson lacks the presets for zoom and shift. They also offered a great deal on the new Sony 4k but this is out of my price range.

Any recommendations or experience? 2D priority - 3D who knows?
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post #2 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 02:46 PM
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Are you interested in 2D only or you want to watch 3D. 3D has much more light loss and it is more difficult to find a projector that will be bright enough with your for good quality 3D viewing with your screen size and gain. There are actually very few projectors that include lens memory for zoom, focus and ideally also lens shift that automate going between 1.78:1 mode and 2.35:1 mode. Basically Panasonic (the inventor of the lens memory feature), JVC and Sony are the manufactures of moderate priced projectors that offer this feature. The Panasonic PT-AE8000 is probably the least expensive model to offer this feature. It only offers about 600 lumens of light output when calibrated for the most accurate grey scale and color which will provide about 12 ft. lamberts brightess from the screen which is at the very lower end of what is generally considered acceptable brightness in a totally light controlled room. At the projector's lamp ages the projector's lumens will go down so this is not an ideal situation. The Panasonic does however have some brighter, but less accurate, modes, with 2 or more times the lumens output of the most accurate mode, that you may very well find acceptable. Bottom line for the Panasonic is it may be usable for 2D viewing.

The JVCs have somewhat higher lumens (on the order of 900 lumens with a new lamp) output in their most accruate mode and overall these would probably be a somewhat better choice for 2D viewing if you want accurate colors and grey scale. JVC's however do not have a high luman mode that is much brghter than the most accurate mode.

The Sony VW95 has lens memory and has an output similar to the JVCs.

None of these projectors will be very birght for 3D viewing where the light to the eyes (thru the 3D glasses) may only be 20% to 25% of what you get for 2D viewing.

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post #3 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 02:49 PM
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Be really careful with what you're planning, bulbs dim a lot over time, even if you are happy on the first day of a setup you probably won't be in a couple/few months as lamp dims quite a bit. And IMO forget 3D with what you're talking, 3D requires A LOT of lumens to make it look good.

If I were in your shoes I'd do a higher gain screen and maybe go a little smaller on the screen.

BTW I own the Epson 6010 and love it. I have a DIY screen where it essentially has black borders top and bottom permanently attached to wall framing a 2.35:1 ratio image and I put in removable side masking bars I made to frame a 16:9 ratio image. I don't know if Epson has modified the design of the vertical and horizontal lens shift controls on the 6020 vs. 6010 but they are very sloppy on the 6010. For example, if you use the vertical lens shift control it also affects (changes) the horizontal lens shift (which you don't want changed), doesn't make a lot of sense but that's how it works and it happens on all of the 5010s/6010s as far as I have read, my projector isn't defective. Saying that though I can switch between 2.35:1 and 16:9 setup on the projector in a few minutes, would be even faster if the lens shift controls didn't work so wonky. My previous projector an inexpensive Sanyo PLV-Z5 had very good vertical/horizontal lens shift controls, they didn't affect each other at all.
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post #4 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

I don't know if Epson has modified the design of the vertical and horizontal lens shift controls on the 6020 vs. 6010 but they are very sloppy on the 6010.

Lens shift controls on the 5020 are a disaster.
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post #5 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 03:43 PM
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Lens shift controls on the 5020 are a disaster.

Guess that answers that question... It's weird that they released the 5010/6010 with the sloppy lens shift controls but to not fix it in the 5020/6020 really is a head scratcher.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

Guess that answers that question... It's weird that they released the 5010/6010 with the sloppy lens shift controls but to not fix it in the 5020/6020 really is a head scratcher.

But but but, look at that cool motorized lens door!

Epson has weird priorities.
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post #7 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 06:23 PM
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I'd follow the advice previously given. Go with a higher gain screen or look for something smaller. In your price range there are only a few projectors that have motorized lens memory and would be bright enough for 2D. The Sony VPL-VW95ES is a beautiful machine that would go great with a higher gain screen at that size and does what you're looking for.
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post #8 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'd follow the advice previously given. Go with a higher gain screen or look for something smaller. In your price range there are only a few projectors that have motorized lens memory and would be bright enough for 2D. The Sony VPL-VW95ES is a beautiful machine that would go great with a higher gain screen at that size and does what you're looking for.

Assuming price not an issue, what would your recommendations for a projector be?
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post #9 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 09:15 PM
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Sim2 Sole 3d. MSRP $55,000. you can't dp what you are trying to do with let's call it, no offense guys, toy projectors for this size screen and unity gain. There are alternatives in the $25 to 430k MSRP class by digital Projections.

you asked the question, price not being in issue.

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post #10 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 10:37 PM
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Sim2 has a zoom lens? I thought it had the choice of 3 fixed focal length lenses.

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post #11 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
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Assuming price not an issue, what would your recommendations for a projector be?

If price wasnt an issue I'd buy an anamorphic lens. This is why you're typically seeing this motorized lens memory feature on lower priced projectors only. Those who buy the high end machines typically have money for an anamorphic lens. The nicest projector that has this feature is the Sony VPL-VW1000ES.
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post #12 of 34 Old 03-17-2013, 10:58 PM
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Good point. I had assumed he needed a zoom lens because he didn't have flexibility with respect to projector placement. If the OP is looking for a light cannon and image quality issues such as black levels is a secondary concern, perhaps something like a Christie HD670-E or a similar commercial projector would fit the bill? Though personally, I'd go with a higher gain screen.

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post #13 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 08:02 AM
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I am using a RS48 on a 148" 2.35 1.0 gain screen with a Panamorph lens. The lamp only has about 200 hours on it, but I am running it in low lamp mode with the iris clamped down. On high lamp and the iris open the brightness is pretty blinding.

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post #14 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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If price wasnt an issue I'd buy an anamorphic lens. This is why you're typically seeing this motorized lens memory feature on lower priced projectors only. Those who buy the high end machines typically have money for an anamorphic lens. The nicest projector that has this feature is the Sony VPL-VW1000ES.

I was planning on using an anamorpic lens, but was advised that I would still need to have ability to fine tune the position and zoom when switching between 2.35:1 and the other formats. Is this not correct? My dealer had suggest the Sony, but it doesn't look any more capable of lighting up a screen this size than the other projectors I listed.
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post #15 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 08:48 AM
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The Sony has more lumens but I am using it (the 1000ES) on a way smaller 1.0 gain screen and I would not use it for a screen of the indicated suze. The Sim2 has zoom lenses in three ranges. That approach is much better than doing it with one lone long zoom range. Much less light loss between short and long in each range. easier lens to design, less expensive to make well.


The 1000ES while not being a light cannon is much much better than the projectors you are considering,.

I have no idea what your budget is or who is guiding you. Tour screen is too big for a 1.0 gain. You should go to a smasll screen size and a higher gain screen or bite the bullit and buy a good high lumen output projector.

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post #16 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holmern View Post

I am using a RS48 on a 148" 2.35 1.0 gain screen with a Panamorph lens. The lamp only has about 200 hours on it, but I am running it in low lamp mode with the iris clamped down. On high lamp and the iris open the brightness is pretty blinding.

Your example is basically moot. Try zooming your projector to fill the screen. I don't you'll be saying the same thing about brightness. That's one of the nicer features of using an anamorphic lens. You get the larger image and get to keep all the brightness.
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post #17 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The Sony has more lumens but I am using it (the 1000ES) on a way smaller 1.0 gain screen and I would not use it for a screen of the indicated suze. The Sim2 has zoom lenses in three ranges. That approach is much better than doing it with one lone long zoom range. Much less light loss between short and long in each range. easier lens to design, less expensive to make well.


The 10000Es while not being a light cannon is much much better than the projectors you are considering,.

I have no idea what your budget is or who is guiding you. Tour screen is too big for a 1.0 gain. You should go to a smasll screen size and a higher gain screen or bite the bullit and buy a good high lumen output projector.

Can you give me a recommendation on a good high lumen output projector? I don't really think the 1000Es is considered a high lumen. It is actually not as bright as some of the other options, at least based on calculator pro. It is a nice projector, but frankly I do not want to pay the premium price to be an early adopter in 4K. Thanks.
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post #18 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 03:48 PM
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Can you give me a recommendation on a good high lumen output projector? I don't really think the 1000Es is considered a high lumen. It is actually not as bright as some of the other options, at least based on calculator pro. It is a nice projector, but frankly I do not want to pay the premium price to be an early adopter in 4K. Thanks.

i never said it was a high lumens output projector. It is plenty bright for many screen sizes even with a low gain screen. many are using it with large screens and even low gain. You might want to go to the 1000ES threads.

'I have already given you some recommendations. Before I go on, please tell me what you are prepared to spend in street dollars.

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post #19 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 04:30 PM
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There are some people using the Sony VW1000ES to light up screens that size or larger. Most of the people that are lighting up larger screens are using higher gain screens. As long as you are not trying to get 3D brightness, the VW1000ES would do the job for 2D on that screen, but you would have to short throw mount it. That would give you around 1,600 lumens. That is enough to give you 24.5 Foot Lamberts using zoom method. That is enough brightness to allow for decent lamp life.

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post #20 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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i never said it was a high lumens output projector. It is plenty bright for many scren sizes even with a low gain screen. many are using it with large screens and even low gain. You might want to go to the 1000ES threads.

'I have already given you some recommendations. Before I go on, please tell me what you are prepared to spend in street dollars.



Thanks for the help Mark. Projector budget 15-20K. I will use a lens and AT screen that I have already budgeted for. 140" diagonal is the goal. 2D 2.35:1 90% of the time. I do not own any 3D content and unsure if I will. Light controlled room.
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post #21 of 34 Old 03-18-2013, 09:09 PM
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Mike's advice is good except that we now both know you will be using an anamorphic lens. For a varietuy of reasons that means you MUST set up the projector at ling throw .Call me for the reasons. i do not feel like reposting the reasons but you can find them by doing a little research in an anamorphic thread. I will make some recommendations tomorrow.

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post #22 of 34 Old 03-19-2013, 06:34 PM
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Digital Projections Model Highlight 330 3D HC is a 3 chip DLP with 3000 Lumens and a contrast of over 20,000 should fit your bill and will come in below $20K. A whole variety of lens options, just be sure to chose the long throw for any lens you select and use the 1.78 width that fits withing your wide aspect screen size for figuring the throw. Give Mike at AV Science a call for pricing.

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post #23 of 34 Old 03-19-2013, 08:04 PM
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Sim2 Sole 3d. MSRP $55,000. you can't dp what you are trying to do with let's call it, no offense guys, toy projectors for this size screen and unity gain.

Mark,

Do you really think a $3k-5k projector is a toy projector?
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post #24 of 34 Old 03-19-2013, 08:10 PM
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I think he's saying that the cheaper projectors (ie $3-$5k) aren't meant to fill screens that large. In essence it would be like trying to use one of those $30 Discovery Wonderwall projectors to fill a 120" screen. They are considered toys for that size screen.
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I think he's saying that the cheaper projectors (ie $3-$5k) aren't meant to fill screens that large. In essence it would be like trying to use one of those $30 Discovery Wonderwall projectors to fill a 120" screen. They are considered toys for that size screen.

Many people use $3-5K projectors to fill that size and some use under $1k to fill that size. For instance, a benq w7000 or w1070 can fill that size easily. Its personal preferences really, I used a 135in 1.1gain screen with my rs40, I just switched it to a hp screen for 3d. Brightness was not a problem for 2D even after 350hrs. I'm sure one of my jvcs, rs40, 48, and 55 would have been filled a 140in if I wanted it to.

I had the opportunity to see one of the members on here double stack crt that was a total of 700 lumens on an AT 140in screen, which was 10ftL. So, its all personal preference, 3000lumens may be too much for some.
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post #26 of 34 Old 03-19-2013, 08:40 PM
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Well considering he's looking at a 1.0 gain screen there aren't any projectors that can fill that much screen real estate with any real brightness. Even with the W1070's calibrated 1300 lumens, at that size you're looking at just 14foot lamberts and that is with a new bulb. Good luck with 3D let alone 2D after a few hundred hours. Mark has a point, if you want a decently bright image on a 14' cinemascope screen you're going to need something bright and unfortunately there really aren't too many "home theater" projectors that can fill that screen in the $3-$5k price range.
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Well considering he's looking at a 1.0 gain screen there aren't any projectors that can fill that much screen real estate with any real brightness. Even with the W1070's calibrated 1300 lumens, at that size you're looking at just 14foot lamberts and that is with a new bulb. Good luck with 3D let alone 2D after a few hundred hours. Mark has a point, if you want a decently bright image on a 14' cinemascope screen you're going to need something bright and unfortunately there really aren't too many "home theater" projectors that can fill that screen in the $3-$5k price range.
I thought the OP stated a 140in diagonal screen. I see my confusion. Also, my W1070 measured 1600 lumens.
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post #28 of 34 Old 03-19-2013, 09:12 PM
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I thought the OP stated a 140in screen and I was thinking 16:9 instead of cinemascope. I see my confusion. Also, my W1070 measured 1600 lumens.

Is that with Brilliant Color on or off? BC on makes the image roughly 25% brighter.
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Is that with Brilliant Color on or off? BC on makes the image roughly 25% brighter.
I kept it on since its not for movie watching, just sports, gaming, and some tv shows.
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post #30 of 34 Old 03-19-2013, 09:53 PM
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Yup, then there's your extra 300 lumens. You could try and calibrate with BC on but it seems most people keep it off because it tracks closer to D65 with it off. But if you needed the lumens and don't care to get color as close as possible it's an option.
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