"Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?) - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 910 Old 01-08-2014, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

as somebody that's been legally blind in their left eye since birth, I'd like to think I'm a bit of an expert on this. and I would confirm, I don't see a '2D' world around me. I don't know exactly how I see 3D, and I don't know if it looks different than stereoscopic 3D(as I've never seen that), but my depth perception has been good enough to allow me to play several sports at an elite level(badminton, volleyball, hockey goalie, baseball)

I still think it's strange that seeing the wall in your room would HELP depth on screen, but I know there's a lot of stuff being done 'behind the scenes' in our minds

Red Schoendienst was a Baseball Hall of Fame second baseman for the St. Louis Cardinals (and still has strong ties with the team). He has one bad eye, but that didn't stop him from becoming one of the best of his era. Depth cues abound for people without stereoscopic vision (or with). OTOH, even people with two good eyes can have difficulty perceiving 3D "normally." Stereoscopic depth perception in people with normal vision is caused by the offset of the two eyes. One eye sees a slightly different image than the other eye. Essentially, one eye sees "around" an object on one side and the other eye sees "around" it on the other, providing a unique depth cue. That cue is, for many of us, the reason 3D movies are so rewarding. They're closer to how we perceive things in real life. Especially at closer distances, the cues from true stereoscopic vision give objects tremendous "roundness" and richness. I see things "better" and more easily in 3D than I do in 2D.

As for perceiving things more 3-dimensionally with a partially blacked out room, I've never experienced that. Before my remodel, my room was dark, but it didn't float in the "sea of black" it does now. A 2D image looks neither more nor less 3D to me than it did before.

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post #542 of 910 Old 01-09-2014, 06:52 AM
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After talking with a rep from http://www.whaleys.co.uk/ I decided to get two samples of fabric for my acoustic panels that will go on my ceiling. I'm getting one sample of the Devore Velvet that Rich recommended and the stage department rep recommended Black Wool Serge. Anyone have experience with wool?

Love sports, movies, and games. Slowly some day I'll add a projector and screen. Until then, I'll build up my library.
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post #543 of 910 Old 01-09-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Red Schoendienst was a Baseball Hall of Fame second baseman for the St. Louis Cardinals (and still has strong ties with the team). He has one bad eye, but that didn't stop him from becoming one of the best of his era. Depth cues abound for people without stereoscopic vision (or with). OTOH, even people with two good eyes can have difficulty perceiving 3D "normally." Stereoscopic depth perception in people with normal vision is caused by the offset of the two eyes. One eye sees a slightly different image than the other eye. Essentially, one eye sees "around" an object on one side and the other eye sees "around" it on the other, providing a unique depth cue. That cue is, for many of us, the reason 3D movies are so rewarding. They're closer to how we perceive things in real life. Especially at closer distances, the cues from true stereoscopic vision give objects tremendous "roundness" and richness. I see things "better" and more easily in 3D than I do in 2D.

As for perceiving things more 3-dimensionally with a partially blacked out room, I've never experienced that. Before my remodel, my room was dark, but it didn't float in the "sea of black" it does now. A 2D image looks neither more nor less 3D to me than it did before.

this is probably about my experience as well. so many things have changed in my room to make a fair comparison, but i would say the biggest change i've had from blacking out the room is less distractions(the positive), and a more noticeable black floor(the bad).
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post #544 of 910 Old 01-09-2014, 07:26 PM
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My concern with using black velvet on the screen wall would be sound transmission. I’m going with a Seymour XD screen but my main speakers, VMPS RM40s, have a bass port that will be below the screen and the woofer that would be partially below the screen. Wouldn't a better choice for me be something like Parts Express Mellotone grill cloth? It may not be as light absorbing as the velvet but it is 100% acoustically transparent and even has a class A fire rating, but it is almost twice the price.

How thick (or tall) is the pile on the Royal 3 velvet?
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post #545 of 910 Old 01-09-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TedO View Post

How thick (or tall) is the pile on the Royal 3 velvet?

It's not thick like a rug. It's more like a fuzzy surface on one side. It would take a micrometer to measure the thickness with any precision.
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post #546 of 910 Old 01-09-2014, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedO View Post

My concern with using black velvet on the screen wall would be sound transmission. I’m going with a Seymour XD screen but my main speakers, VMPS RM40s, have a bass port that will be below the screen and the woofer that would be partially below the screen. Wouldn't a better choice for me be something like Parts Express Mellotone grill cloth? It may not be as light absorbing as the velvet but it is 100% acoustically transparent and even has a class A fire rating, but it is almost twice the price.

How thick (or tall) is the pile on the Royal 3 velvet?

screen wall is probably the least important to use velvet on. I'd say the side walls and ceiling are the most likely to reflect light both into the room, and onto the screen. for example, I can't even see my speakers beside the screen, and they are just normal black speaker cloth and black stained wood. you also kind of get that 'trying to see who's holding the flashlight when it's pointed in your face' effect. since the screen is hopefully the brightest thing in the room, everything right next to/behind it will appear even darker
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post #547 of 910 Old 01-10-2014, 05:08 AM
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I’m torn between making my screen wall the full width of the room with all the speakers behind it or making it slightly larger than the screen in width and having the L/R speakers on either end. I plan to use a 150” wide curved Seymour XD screen. I’m thinking I should have less reflective light on the sidewalls using the curved screen. My main concern should be the floor and ceiling.The room will have black carpeting, black suspended ceiling and dark purple/black walls.

These are the 2 x 2 tiles I was looking at using the covering the grid work with Protostar flocking. They sell 1-5/8” x 250’ with self-adhesive backing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170660863748?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_996wt_1128

The walls will have a knock down texture with two tone paint. I plan to paint the walls flat black then paint a second coat of deep purple using a short nap roller. This should put the purple only on the flat sections of the knock down texture. We’ll see how this works, I haven’t tried it yet.
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post #548 of 910 Old 01-10-2014, 07:55 AM
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Go wide cool.gif

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #549 of 910 Old 01-17-2014, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedO View Post

I’m torn between making my screen wall the full width of the room with all the speakers behind it or making it slightly larger than the screen in width and having the L/R speakers on either end. I plan to use a 150” wide curved Seymour XD screen. I’m thinking I should have less reflective light on the sidewalls using the curved screen. My main concern should be the floor and ceiling.

I have a curved screen and it does help but the side walls still need velvet imho. I have dark non reflective (somewhat) fabric on the walls but velvet definately helps. That is a huge screen. I have experimented going up to 14' wide and have bumped my screens down to 11' wide and 10 1/2' wide. Seymour XD material.
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post #550 of 910 Old 01-20-2014, 09:05 AM
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I ordered some royalty 3 velvet and am planning on putting it on a couple of surfaces. First question, I'd like to drape it over my speakers. Any suggestions on attaching it to the speakers? Obviously I don't want to use tacks or anything that will leave a mark.

Second question, whats the best way to attach it to the wall?

- Klipsch RF-82 ii, RC-62 ii, RS-52 ii
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post #551 of 910 Old 01-21-2014, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

I ordered some royalty 3 velvet and am planning on putting it on a couple of surfaces. First question, I'd like to drape it over my speakers. Any suggestions on attaching it to the speakers? Obviously I don't want to use tacks or anything that will leave a mark.

Second question, whats the best way to attach it to the wall?

I wouldn't put the velvet over the speakers… it's too dense to let the sound through, so the frequency response will be altered.

"Suddenly the thought struck me, my floor is someone elses ceiling" - Nils Ferlin
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post #552 of 910 Old 01-21-2014, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

I ordered some royalty 3 velvet and am planning on putting it on a couple of surfaces. First question, I'd like to drape it over my speakers. Any suggestions on attaching it to the speakers? Obviously I don't want to use tacks or anything that will leave a mark.

Second question, whats the best way to attach it to the wall?
There are links to instructions a few pages back that I posted for one way to attach to ceiling and walls. If the link does not work, try it again in a few hours as I have been having DNS issues lately.
Just drape it over the speakers (not over the front). If you want to make it perm then use 3M 77 spray adhesive on speaker and back of velvet. If you just lay a piece over the top and sides, you can fold it up wand put it away when not using the projector so the room looks nice. There are trade offs.. either a black bat cave, or you have to spend time putting up and taking down treatment with each use to preserve aesthetics.
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post #553 of 910 Old 01-21-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiojan View Post

I wouldn't put the velvet over the speakers… it's too dense to let the sound through, so the frequency response will be altered.

Thanks. I actually meant I am going to be draping it over the top and side of the speaker, not over the front. That's where the reflections are coming from.

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post #554 of 910 Old 01-21-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

There are links to instructions a few pages back that I posted for one way to attach to ceiling and walls. If the link does not work, try it again in a few hours as I have been having DNS issues lately.
Just drape it over the speakers (not over the front). If you want to make it perm then use 3M 77 spray adhesive on speaker and back of velvet. If you just lay a piece over the top and sides, you can fold it up wand put it away when not using the projector so the room looks nice. There are trade offs.. either a black bat cave, or you have to spend time putting up and taking down treatment with each use to preserve aesthetics.

For the speakers, I'll probably just leave it on. I don't think it will look too terrible (I guess I'll find out).

For one wall, I just want to see how much difference it makes to motivate me to get off my ass and paint it dark like the back wall already. For the other side, there are glossy granite tiles for the fireplace surround which obviously is incredibly distracting.

Here is a pic for your reference. The back wall is actually way darker than it looks and is a matte navy:


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post #555 of 910 Old 01-21-2014, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

I ordered some royalty 3 velvet and am planning on putting it on a couple of surfaces. First question, I'd like to drape it over my speakers. Any suggestions on attaching it to the speakers? Obviously I don't want to use tacks or anything that will leave a mark.

Second question, whats the best way to attach it to the wall?


I know you don't want to use tacks, but I did and it looks really nice. The speakers disappear and the tight clean fit from using the tacks makes a real professional look.

James Reid:D
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post #556 of 910 Old 01-21-2014, 10:54 AM
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I know you don't want to use tacks, but I did and it looks really nice. The speakers disappear and the tight clean fit from using the tacks makes a real professional look.

You mean on the speakers? On the wall I don't mind using tacks, but really it will probably be a temporary setup just to test the difference. I'm sure the velvet is better than the matte paint, but my wife isn't thrilled about the prospect of black velvet everywhere.

For the speakers, I definitely don't want to put little holes in them. Whenever I move into a bigger house I will likely upgrade the speakers and I don't want to mar them in case I end up selling them.

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post #557 of 910 Old 01-21-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

You mean on the speakers? On the wall I don't mind using tacks, but really it will probably be a temporary setup just to test the difference. I'm sure the velvet is better than the matte paint, but my wife isn't thrilled about the prospect of black velvet everywhere.

For the speakers, I definitely don't want to put little holes in them. Whenever I move into a bigger house I will likely upgrade the speakers and I don't want to mar them in case I end up selling them.


Yes I meant speakers, but I understand where you are coming from. I also used tacks for the wall and ceiling,works great, but you need tacks that are a dull black for the area in front of the screen.

James Reid:D
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post #558 of 910 Old 01-25-2014, 01:49 PM
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So I got 6 yards of the royalty 3 velvet. I didn't realize it would have a border! smile.gif My ignorance, I guess.

I pinned some up just to see how it looks and it makes a significant difference. My wife is also now convinced we need to paint the side wall, so that's a plus.

Unfortunately the cloth looks kind of terrible draped over the speakers. I'll keep working on it, but thanks to all the guys in this thread for the advice and info.

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post #559 of 910 Old 01-25-2014, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post


Unfortunately the cloth looks kind of terrible draped over the speakers. I'll keep working on it, but thanks to all the guys in this thread for the advice and info.

If your speakers are typical box speakers like mine, you only need to cover the sides and top. I have my black velvet cut and sewn with nice edges, to exactly the depth of my speaker. I used velcro at the bottom of my left and right speakers (monitors, on stands) so that the material is pulled taught enough over the speakers to get rid of any wrinkles. The effect is of a very neat cover for the speakers - most people think they came out of the box looking like that.
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post #560 of 910 Old 01-25-2014, 01:58 PM
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Unfortunately the cloth looks kind of terrible draped over the speakers. I'll keep working on it, but thanks to all the guys in this thread for the advice and info.

Here is an idea for your speakers.
Buy some quality 1/4" froam core or gator board (gator is more expensive but very sold but lighter than foam board) either will work.
Cut pieces to fit the sides of the speakers and the top with the over lap of the sides.
Cover all pieces with velvet using the 3m 77 adhesive wrapping around to the back. You will need to cut the corners on the back so it will lay flat, try a small 12x12 square first to get the hang of it. Then attach the panels with the 3m command adhesive so they can be removed if you need to at a later date. This may seem like more work than the above approach but eliminates the sewing aspect.. velvet is a bear to sew unless you are an accomplished seamstress. And really making the panels is very quick once you get the hang of it.. I did ceiling in a couple of hours, sewing the hems on the wall covering took all weekend..
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post #561 of 910 Old 01-25-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

If your speakers are typical box speakers like mine, you only need to cover the sides and top. I have my black velvet cut and sewn with nice edges, to exactly the depth of my speaker. I used velcro at the bottom of my left and right speakers (monitors, on stands) so that the material is pulled taught enough over the speakers to get rid of any wrinkles. The effect is of a very neat cover for the speakers - most people think they came out of the box looking like that.

Thanks thats a good idea. Do you have any pics so I could get a better idea of how it would look?

- Klipsch RF-82 ii, RC-62 ii, RS-52 ii
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post #562 of 910 Old 01-25-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Here is an idea for your speakers.
Buy some quality 1/4" froam core or gator board (gator is more expensive but very sold but lighter than foam board) either will work.
Cut pieces to fit the sides of the speakers and the top with the over lap of the sides.
Cover all pieces with velvet using the 3m 77 adhesive wrapping around to the back. You will need to cut the corners on the back so it will lay flat, try a small 12x12 square first to get the hang of it. Then attach the panels with the 3m command adhesive so they can be removed if you need to at a later date.

I like the removability, but I don't think that would look that great in my situation. The speakers are pretty big and the space tight so adding something 1/4 inch plus around the whole think might not work very well.

- Klipsch RF-82 ii, RC-62 ii, RS-52 ii
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post #563 of 910 Old 01-26-2014, 06:55 AM
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I like the removability, but I don't think that would look that great in my situation. The speakers are pretty big and the space tight so adding something 1/4 inch plus around the whole think might not work very well.

In my old HT setup, I had speakers on each side of the screen. Even though the speakers were flat black, you could see the sides of the speakers light up from the screen. I just took a strip of black velvet and wrapped it around the speaker, tucking it under the speaker. It was flush with the front edge of the speaker. Simple yet effective. It made the speaker disappear.

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post #564 of 910 Old 01-26-2014, 11:35 AM
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In my old HT setup, I had speakers on each side of the screen. Even though the speakers were flat black, you could see the sides of the speakers light up from the screen. I just took a strip of black velvet and wrapped it around the speaker, tucking it under the speaker. It was flush with the front edge of the speaker. Simple yet effective. It made the speaker disappear.

Thanks mike. That's kind of what I've been envisioning, but I think I just didn't cut the velvet properly and since it wasn't really long, it was loose over the side. If it was taught and flush with the front, I'm sure it would look better.

Time to enlist my wife's assistance in cutting the fabric properly.

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I just noticed that the dark grey paint I used in my theater is Sherwin Williams " Garrett Grey ". Obviously it was originally developed and approved for home theater use by Mike ! smile.gif
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post #566 of 910 Old 01-26-2014, 05:34 PM
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I just noticed that the dark grey paint I used in my theater is Sherwin Williams " Garrett Grey ". Obviously it was originally developed and approved for home theater use by Mike ! smile.gif

smile.gif

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post #567 of 910 Old 01-26-2014, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Thanks mike. That's kind of what I've been envisioning, but I think I just didn't cut the velvet properly and since it wasn't really long, it was loose over the side. If it was taught and flush with the front, I'm sure it would look better.

Time to enlist my wife's assistance in cutting the fabric properly.

Fold the front edge of the velvet and you then have a nice straight edge.

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post #568 of 910 Old 01-26-2014, 10:09 PM
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I have a ton of this black velvet and stuck on an idea on how to cover my 2 side walls. I was thinking about curtains since I don't want to permanently cover these walls. Plus 1 side has a door to a utility room.

I like airscape's idea of the thin metal bar + magnets. This way I can take then down if I want. The other thought was maybe a small curtain track like this:

finelinetracksilver_1.jpg

the problem with the track is that I want the velvet as close to the blacked out ceiling as possible. The metal bar + magnet setup will allow for that. Are there any specific curtain tracks better designed for what I am trying to do?
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post #569 of 910 Old 01-27-2014, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I have a ton of this black velvet and stuck on an idea on how to cover my 2 side walls. I was thinking about curtains since I don't want to permanently cover these walls. Plus 1 side has a door to a utility room.

I like airscape's idea of the thin metal bar + magnets. This way I can take then down if I want. The other thought was maybe a small curtain track like this:

finelinetracksilver_1.jpg

the problem with the track is that I want the velvet as close to the blacked out ceiling as possible. The metal bar + magnet setup will allow for that. Are there any specific curtain tracks better designed for what I am trying to do?

If those tarvis roods in the image are Ferrous, You could make a 3 or 4" valance and attach it with magnets. Add an extra layer of gaffers tape to the back of the valance to give it some stiffness so it sits tight against the ceiling. Or if you are good with a sewing machine, add some sewn in interfacing. Can't use the Iron on type, the velvet will melt with the heat of the iron.
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post #570 of 910 Old 01-27-2014, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I have a ton of this black velvet and stuck on an idea on how to cover my 2 side walls.
I want the velvet as close to the blacked out ceiling as possible.
Hi Zombie,

Several years ago, I tried an experiment by stapling velvet to the front wall, side walls, ceiling, and floor of the first 5 feet of my kid's playroom. I used Mike's suggestion of folding the front edge of the velvet for a more professional look, as well as adding a small black strip of black painted wood for a more finished appearance. The experiment is still up and would probably take 10 minutes to return the room to the original white appearance with the aid of sparkling compound. Speakers and subs are also wrapped in velvet as I must get every inch of brightness out of my xv-z20000 mk2 cool.gif

Also, I really appreciate the hard work and time you put into your projector reviews.

Craig
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