"Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?) - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1212 Old 09-15-2014, 07:44 PM
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Great thread! Here's an oldie but a goodie - it details my experiments with improving ANSI CR in my room: Improving ANSI CR in my HT - some experiments and obervations. What I detail in that thread was the single greatest improvement I made to my room over the past 10+ years.
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post #1172 of 1212 Old 09-15-2014, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
What has me so excited is going to a bigger screen, my current set-up only allows for a 115in screen. Looking forward to having a big scope screen. Lucky for me I spent several years in construction, so I will do all the work. I have plenty of outlets in the Garage and it has a new gas furnace. It gets real cold where I live, minus 30C in the winter so with out the furnace it would be a no go.lol
I envy the space you have to work with (though not your climate--here in Berkeley it is much more benign). I have only a 17x15 room to work with, but have managed to set up a 12ft wide screen, and sit ~ 10-11 ft from it. Very immersive and impressive. As many have said and described, it is very important to use dark, light-absorbing material on the ceiling and side walls. Best wishes in working it all out for your situation.
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post #1173 of 1212 Old 09-15-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
I envy the space you have to work with (though not your climate--here in Berkeley it is much more benign). I have only a 17x15 room to work with, but have managed to set up a 12ft wide screen, and sit ~ 10-11 ft from it. Very immersive and impressive. As many have said and described, it is very important to use dark, light-absorbing material on the ceiling and side walls. Best wishes in working it all out for your situation.

Thank you, every winter I say I am going to move to California lol.

James Reid:D
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post #1174 of 1212 Old 09-15-2014, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
I envy the space you have to work with (though not your climate--here in Berkeley it is much more benign). I have only a 17x15 room to work with, but have managed to set up a 12ft wide screen, and sit ~ 10-11 ft from it. Very immersive and impressive. As many have said and described, it is very important to use dark, light-absorbing material on the ceiling and side walls. Best wishes in working it all out for your situation.
Ah, a fellow Bay Area AVSer.

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post #1175 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Just received the ok to turn my 24ftW X 30ftL X 9ft H garage into a Home Theatre. So excited had to share, it will be a dark pit of course, the idea will be a room that disappears. I am actually thinking of making the room smaller, maybe 20ft wide by 20 long with my equipment outside the room and a little port for the PJ. I want this to me a no compromise on picture performance, the only lights in the room will be flash lights.lol I will make a build log when I get to it. However it will be a long time in the making likely will not start for months. I plan on using Velvet as I did in my current room, I don't think there is anything that matches its performance. At least that I know of.
Just keep in mind that square rooms are not the best for sound (depending on what you use to seal off your equipment room).
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post #1176 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 09:17 AM
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Looks like I am not the only one with a problem with Prostar... Apparently a claim was filed with the BB, and they never responded to them either.
"Complaint: Protostar is supposed to supply telescope parts for their customers. The unfortunate thing is that they will never answer the phone, answer emails, or offer any form of customer service! When you call their phone numbers listed at their website (http://www.fpi-protostar.com/) every single phone line has either a reorder tone or will just ring indefinitely. They will never answer emails about any product and they do not honor their shipping expectations listed on their website as 1-2 days of handling time. I have ordered one of their products approximatly 2 weeks ago. I have recieved no shipping notifications, my emails have gone unnoticed, and I cannot contact them by phone. The most underhanded aspect of this company is that they will gladly accept a paypal transfer, but yet will offer no service in return.

Desired Settlement: I would like protostar to actually honor their contract with me by actually shipping the items I ordered! Otherwise I would like a refund. Additionally, If protostar cannot handle the demand load of customers, either because the owner has a second job or something, I would suggest they update their website with realistic expectations for products, or simply shut down. This type of business practice is not acceptable by any standard.

BBB's Final Determination: Business failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues."


I have been unable to get any response from them via phone, or email just like the person who complained. I really wanted their product but it looks like I am going to have to file a PayPal dispute against them since I made the purchase on the 29th of August I suggest everyone beware of purchasing from them.

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post #1177 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Just keep in mind that square rooms are not the best for sound (depending on what you use to seal off your equipment room).

Thanks, so I would be better off having a 17x20 room for example? The equipment will be behind a wall, it will be a room inside a room sort of thing.

I love how the velvet in my current room performs, my only problem with it is that it is not fireproof, sometimes I feel like I am in a tinder box. I wonder if there is anything I can treat my velvet with?

James Reid:D
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post #1178 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 10:06 AM
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I too have sent emails this Summer and received no response. I did order some HiTack and received it about a month later without any contact in the interim. You might want to wait until October before taking action.
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post #1179 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
It gets real cold where I live, minus 30C in the winter so with out the furnace it would be a no go.lol
T-shirt weather (almost). But seriously, after enduring -45 for a few days -25°/-30° feels quite nice.
Then you snap back to reality. Winter would be better if it didn't last 6 months.

And

Square is bad.
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post #1180 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 10:37 AM
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I too have sent emails this Summer and received no response. I did order some HiTack and received it about a month later without any contact in the interim. You might want to wait until October before taking action.
I believe Paypal gives them 30 days to respond to them.

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post #1181 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 01:05 PM
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I believe Paypal gives them 30 days to respond to them.
I presume you paid Paypal using a credit card (who wouldn't for the added protection...) and as such forget Paypal. There is no need to contact them. Within your credit card's dispute period (90 days?) contact them and they will handle the rest and freeze the charge until it's resolved.
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post #1182 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 01:36 PM
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I have been into astronomy for 20 years' And protostar has allways came though. They have been around a long time in the astro community. Very well respected. I just think when they open the doors to HT selling of their product they did not think it would be a big deal. They were not prepared for the orders. Just wait and you will get it, They are a small outfit trying to make it. They are good people.
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post #1183 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 01:46 PM
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I presume you paid Paypal using a credit card (who wouldn't for the added protection...) and as such forget Paypal. There is no need to contact them. Within your credit card's dispute period (90 days?) contact them and they will handle the rest and freeze the charge until it's resolved.
I didn't use my cc as I had the money sitting in my PayPal account already.

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post #1184 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 01:50 PM
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I didn't use my cc as I had the money sitting in my PayPal account already.
I transfer the money out before they even get done counting it...
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post #1185 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 03:01 PM
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I love how the velvet in my current room performs, my only problem with it is that it is not fireproof, sometimes I feel like I am in a tinder box. I wonder if there is anything I can treat my velvet with?[/QUOTE]

Found this stuff:

http://cyndan.com.au/en/specialty-co...or-fabric.html

James Reid:D
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post #1186 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
I love how the velvet in my current room performs, my only problem with it is that it is not fireproof, sometimes I feel like I am in a tinder box. I wonder if there is anything I can treat my velvet with?
Found this stuff:

http://cyndan.com.au/en/specialty-co...or-fabric.html[/QUOTE]

Are you going to try it?

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post #1187 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
Are you going to try it?[/QUOTE]

I will do some more research, but yes I will treat the velvet.
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post #1188 of 1212 Old 09-16-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Are you going to try it?
I will do some more research, but yes I will treat the velvet.[/QUOTE]

Looking forward to hearing the results.

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post #1189 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 08:16 AM
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I just received notification from Prostar that the velvet is shipping today.
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post #1190 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

I love how the velvet in my current room performs, my only problem with it is that it is not fireproof, sometimes I feel like I am in a tinder box. I wonder if there is anything I can treat my velvet with?
I designed my HT room with the aim of having a permanent dark fabric ceiling to cut light reflections (and help with sound). Given all the pot lights going in I was very concerned with any fire hazards so I made very sure my ceiling fabric was fire-rated for ceiling use (fire rating for ceiling use is different, and more stringent, than materials rated for wall use). Also made sure every pot light clearance was to spec.

When I wanted an even more pitch black ceiling over my image not long ago I added (as detailed in this thread) a curtain that can pull across the front of the room and that clips up over the screen easily, to cover a large part of the front of the room ceiling with black velvet. One advantage was I got to keep the nice aesthetics of the current brown felt ceiling structure for day use, but also I couldn't find any black velvet rated for ceiling use, so I didn't want to put anything up permanently.
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post #1191 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 08:53 AM
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If I were a wealthy man I'd have self-tensioned retractable black out panels for the walls and ceiling (they would help SQ when in use). White as can be during the day, scary dark while viewing movies or listening to tunes.
Maybe some day...
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2015 it is.
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post #1192 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Thanks, so I would be better off having a 17x20 room for example? The equipment will be behind a wall, it will be a room inside a room sort of thing.
Without going too far OT for this thread, the issue with a square room is that your first, second and third order length and width modes are the same and without multiple subwoofers, it will be difficult to deal with the issues this causes in your space.

20x20


The 17x20 helps somewhat but you'll notice your primary width and length modes along with your secondary modes are still relatively close together (especially when you consider other factors like the material of your boundaries, any irregularity in shape etc.):



Typically, a room that is longer than it is wide would be preferred for a home theater setup. Since you have some flexibility with your space, I was just suggesting that you avoid square dimensions as much as possible.
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post #1193 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I designed my HT room with the aim of having a permanent dark fabric ceiling to cut light reflections (and help with sound). Given all the pot lights going in I was very concerned with any fire hazards so I made very sure my ceiling fabric was fire-rated for ceiling use (fire rating for ceiling use is different, and more stringent, than materials rated for wall use). Also made sure every pot light clearance was to spec.

When I wanted an even more pitch black ceiling over my image not long ago I added (as detailed in this thread) a curtain that can pull across the front of the room and that clips up over the screen easily, to cover a large part of the front of the room ceiling with black velvet. One advantage was I got to keep the nice aesthetics of the current brown felt ceiling structure for day use, but also I couldn't find any black velvet rated for ceiling use, so I didn't want to put anything up permanently.

Sounds really nice,you have a beautiful room. But I don't want to even see my room, no lights, except a few lamps, it will be 100% covered in Velvet treated or possible another material that is fire rated and close in performance. I want all material to be permanently and tightly attached. Sort of what I have now but with no compromise. I will keep looking, but I have to imagine there is a material used on stages that is close to velvets performance.

James Reid:D
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post #1194 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 09:51 AM
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Thank you very much jkasanic.
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post #1195 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Without going too far OT for this thread, the issue with a square room is that your first, second and third order length and width modes are the same and without multiple subwoofers, it will be difficult to deal with the issues this causes in your space.

20x20


The 17x20 helps somewhat but you'll notice your primary width and length modes along with your secondary modes are still relatively close together (especially when you consider other factors like the material of your boundaries, any irregularity in shape etc.):



Typically, a room that is longer than it is wide would be preferred for a home theater setup. Since you have some flexibility with your space, I was just suggesting that you avoid square dimensions as much as possible.
What software are you using... I would like to see how my room comes out on it.

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post #1196 of 1212 Old 09-17-2014, 10:23 AM
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What software are you using... I would like to see how my room comes out on it.
If you Google "room mode calculator" you'll find a ton of them online. This particular one is from Harman.
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post #1197 of 1212 Old 09-28-2014, 08:39 PM
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I put up a 4' long section of ProStar velvet on our flat black ceiling... WOW, I couldn't believe how much better it looks! I am doing it by myself and found out it is a bit hard to do it wrinkle free, but it is so black you can't tell where the wrinkles are. I rubbed it good to get it to adhere and part of it came loose after about 10 minutes... I have went and re rubbed it a few times since and it seems to be holding. We will see how it is in a day or two.
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post #1198 of 1212 Old 09-28-2014, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
I put up a 4' long section of ProStar velvet on our flat black ceiling... WOW, I couldn't believe how much better it looks! I am doing it by myself and found out it is a bit hard to do it wrinkle free, but it is so black you can't tell where the wrinkles are. I rubbed it good to get it to adhere and part of it came loose after about 10 minutes... I have went and re rubbed it a few times since and it seems to be holding. We will see how it is in a day or two.

Love the idea of peal and stick.

James Reid:D
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post #1199 of 1212 Old Yesterday, 07:56 AM
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Well, I've read through the entire thread. Thanks to all who have contributed and answered questions. It's be a fun exercise seeing everyone's progress and results!!

Here's where I'm at. Baby step of buying some R3 velvet from Joanns to create a sleeve to go over the outside of my front speakers. Laid some scrap velvet (hoader in me kept the velvet from a previous project ), and was impressed by how the speakers disappeared in a dark room.

Now the big undertaking. We are removing the two windows in our room. Here's the steps I am going to take after the remodeling:

1) Create pressure R3 velvet frames for the screenwall. Use either velvet wrapped gator board or thin plywood (thanks airscapes) ceiling panels for the first 4 feet (right before I hit the can lights 4ft out). Paint the remaining ceiling using undetermined black paint (ceiling needs a repaint).

Down the road....looking at fabricmate panels for the other three walls. This will probably happen next year.

I've attached two pics of the room. Any suggestions, alternatives to my plan or thoughts are appreciated.

Ron
So here are the results of my work and guy I hired (to remove the windows).:

1) Repainted ceiling using BMoore Black paint.

2) Removed both windows creating solid wall surfaces on side and back wall

3) Made and installed commando covered panels on the screen wall

4) Covered plywood panels with commando cloth for first 4 feet of ceiling from screen wall and top of the side walls

5) Used the protostar material on top of the speakers

6) Installed two bass traps with scatter plates underneath for diffusion on back wall behind listening area (where window used to be).

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post #1200 of 1212 Old Yesterday, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Love the idea of peal and stick.
Well the ProStar adhesive failed over night... What have others done to get it to adhere to the ceiling?

Do I need to wrap thin panels (pegboard?), and then Velcro or screw them to the ceiling?

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