"Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?) - Page 52 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1531 of 1837 Old 03-06-2015, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Scott, here is a 24 volt, 6 amp power supply

http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers...dp/B00E36W0LY/

you just have to do some wiring to feed the + and - to the controller.

here is a 24 volt, 65 foot run of RGB LED's. it draw 104 watts, definitely within the capability of that power supply which is 144 watts max.

http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers...bxgy_hi_text_z

so around $80 for a single controller, $35 for the PS and $168 for the long run. That isn't too bad and would have been very expensive trying to do it with the small 6.5 foot hue strips.

Nice. Thanks! Those look pretty pricey though. Do I need to use the 24v or is there an advantage to the 24v over the 12v versions? I could save at least $100 using the 12v ones.

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post #1532 of 1837 Old 03-06-2015, 02:16 PM
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based on this info below, 12V would only get you a max of about 32 feet. I thought you needed 50+ for a specific zone?

- 10m 12V RGB LED with 30LEDs/m and 7.2W/m = 72W
- 5m 12V RGB LED with 60LEDs/m and 14.4W/m = 72W
- 10m 24V RGB LED with 60LEDs/m and 14.4W/m = 144W
- 20m 24V RGB LED with 30/LEDs/m and 7.2W/m = 144W
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post #1533 of 1837 Old 03-06-2015, 02:25 PM
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Yes, you are correct. One particular zone is going to be about 52ft of led light.

No worries. I'll spend what I'll have to spend and do it right the first time.

Thanks!

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post #1534 of 1837 Old 03-06-2015, 05:17 PM
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not that i'm complaining(because i actually find it interesting) but how did a 'black theater' thread turn into a conversation about installing more lights? haha

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post #1535 of 1837 Old 03-06-2015, 05:39 PM
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You can't know dark without the light.
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post #1536 of 1837 Old 03-06-2015, 07:25 PM
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You can't know dark without the light.
This is true, you need some light to get to the seats before hitting the off button. might as well make it entertaining for the guests.


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post #1537 of 1837 Old 03-06-2015, 09:01 PM
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This is true, you need some light to get to the seats before hitting the off button. might as well make it entertaining for the guests.


@zombie10k - Can I hire you to design my lighting for my new room? Seriously.
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post #1538 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 06:56 AM
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@zombie10k - Can I hire you to design my lighting for my new room? Seriously.
When I put up my can lights, I didn't put nearly enough thought into type and placement. When you see what Zombie has done, it really opens your eyes to the impact of well thought out design. Well done sir.


Another thanks from me to Zombie for cluing me into Hue lighting. I picked up the Par19 starter pack and then followed up with three par16 bulbs. What I realize is the Par16 work better with my can lights and set up. I wish I had gone that route to begin with....so placed an ad to trade for the par16's or sell outright.

Once I have all par16's, I think I'll be very pleased with the final product. Love the impact and flexibility of the HUE system.

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post #1539 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 09:38 AM
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The Par16's looks very similar in size and shape to the GU10's so I expect the light pattern to be better than the wide dispersion 19's. I have open fixtures in the non-HT part of my downstairs and they work perfect for that application.

I just found the perfect place to put that light strip I was experimenting with using the 3rd party controller. I wrapped the entire bottom of my 4 Berkline seats, they fit perfect against the chair frame and don't interfere with the reclining of the seats. They look great, a nice glow of colored light that illuminates the black carpet surrounding.

I'm glad to hear others are enjoying this great lighting setup. I use it all the time, just last night I used the 'concentrate' setting to torch the room with bright 6000K light which is great for getting projects done. then a quick click to drop the entire room to about 3000 for a nice warm appearance.Being able to have granular control over white output is worth the $$ alone for me, the colors are the bonus.
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post #1540 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The Par16's looks very similar in size and shape to the GU10's so I expect the light pattern to be better than the wide dispersion 19's. I have open fixtures in the non-HT part of my downstairs and they work perfect for that application.

I just found the perfect place to put that light strip I was experimenting with using the 3rd party controller. I wrapped the entire bottom of my 4 Berkline seats, they fit perfect against the chair frame and don't interfere with the reclining of the seats. They look great, a nice glow of colored light that illuminates the black carpet surrounding.

I'm glad to hear others are enjoying this great lighting setup. I use it all the time, just last night I used the 'concentrate' setting to torch the room with bright 6000K light which is great for getting projects done. then a quick click to drop the entire room to about 3000 for a nice warm appearance.Being able to have granular control over white output is worth the $$ alone for me, the colors are the bonus.
Sounds cool about the strip on the chairs. Can you post some pics?

For someone creating a room from scratch with the idea of using Philips HUE for the entire room - what type of cans/sockets and bulb types do you recommend?
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post #1541 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 11:01 AM
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Update: Rich and all - thanks for the info about the Devore velvet. I have a 3 foot sample piece coming my way. In addition to doing lighting tests (to check reflection compared to my excellent Madona velvet) I will also check its impact on audio. I plan to take measurements with REW both with and without the Devore in front of a speaker to see what impact it has. By any chance has anyone already experimented by measuring the audio A/B style like this?
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post #1542 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 01:44 PM
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Has anyone ordered from FPI Protostar recently? I put in an order just over two weeks ago, but my card hasn't been charged, my email has not been answered, and the customer support number on the website is not in service.

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post #1543 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
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@zombie10k - Can I hire you to design my lighting for my new room? Seriously.
That looks awesome!

Zombie.. Personally,I couldn't watch a movie with it that black. I have LED's around my plasma,that can be any color. When I turn the lights off,I turn the LED's on,usually blue.. That really takes away the eye strain. If I had your screen,I'd do it to that also. Makes a huge difference..
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post #1544 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 02:17 PM
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Has anyone ordered from FPI Protostar recently? I put in an order just over two weeks ago, but my card hasn't been charged, my email has not been answered, and the customer support number on the website is not in service.
I looked in to their product but after trying to repeatedly call and email them I gave up. I am not even sure if they are still in business. I just went and purchased some velvet and foam display board and made my own panels.

I used a spray adhesive to attach the velvet to the foam board on the front and hot glue on the backside. Double sided tape was then used to attach them to the ceiling above my screen.

Probably the best thing I have done in my theater. The ceiling now looks pitch black!
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post #1545 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 02:21 PM
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I looked in to their product but after trying to repeatedly call and email them I gave up. I am not even sure if they are still in business. I just went and purchased some velvet and foam display board and made my own panels.

I used a spray adhesive to attach the velvet to the foam board on the front and hot glue on the backside. Double sided tape was then used to attach them to the ceiling above my screen.

Probably the best thing I have done in my theater. The ceiling now looks pitch black!
That looks great -- good job!

I was afraid you'd say that. I'm working on a side project that would have really benefitted from one of their telescope tubes.

I had this experience with another company not too long ago, but they eventually got back to me and everything was fine, so I guess I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best.
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post #1546 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 03:46 PM
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That looks awesome!

Zombie.. Personally,I couldn't watch a movie with it that black. I have LED's around my plasma,that can be any color. When I turn the lights off,I turn the LED's on,usually blue.. That really takes away the eye strain. If I had your screen,I'd do it to that also. Makes a huge difference..
I've tried this already but didn't see the value, it seems to have a different effect on a relatively small plasma vs. a 10+ foot wide screen. I never get eye strain with this setup. If I don't feel like watching TV in pitch black, I can now control individual lights in the room to provide ambient light.

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Sounds cool about the strip on the chairs. Can you post some pics?

For someone creating a room from scratch with the idea of using Philips HUE for the entire room - what type of cans/sockets and bulb types do you recommend?
I'll post some pics later and send you some recommendations on the cans I am using. it looks very cool to see the red glow coming out from underneath the seats.

that is a shame about the protostar company, I used this material to black out my ceiling grid and it worked out great. I still have a fair sized roll of it for other projects, I better ration it.
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post #1547 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 06:19 PM
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I've tried this already but didn't see the value, it seems to have a different effect on a relatively small plasma vs. a 10+ foot wide screen. I never get eye strain with this setup. If I don't feel like watching TV in pitch black, I can now control individual lights in the room to provide ambient light.


totally agree!


and maybe this is why I also think my image looks better at 6ftl than 16(iris closed vs open). in a pitch black room(which I don't have) your eyes adjust and a bright screen causes eye strain, but a 'comfortably dim' one does not. imo, the issue is not the lack of ambient light, it's the screen being too bright. why put a bandaid on the problem with bias light when you can fix the problem by reduces lumens. especially when you end up getting better blacks and better contrast when you 'accept' that lower lumen projector.


I don't know, I grew up with crts, and lights out viewing. the only reason I ever watch with the lights on is to hide defects of flat panels. with projectors, the blacks aren't perfect, but they don't get any better with ambient light, and that's the only reason for ambient light for me. although, I will admit in the right situation, a bit of light in the room preventing your eyes from adjusting to the dark can make blacks APPEAR blacker. for example, if I have my laptop on my lap while watching something on the projector, it makes the blacks on screen disappear into the room. but I'm not much of a fan of viewing movies that way, haha.

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post #1548 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I looked in to their product but after trying to repeatedly call and email them I gave up. I am not even sure if they are still in business. I just went and purchased some velvet and foam display board and made my own panels.

I used a spray adhesive to attach the velvet to the foam board on the front and hot glue on the backside. Double sided tape was then used to attach them to the ceiling above my screen.

Probably the best thing I have done in my theater. The ceiling now looks pitch black!
Wow! Nice work! I might just copy what you did here as this looks like a great way to go and better than what I was planning on doing. I take it the double sided tape seems strong enough to hold the panels on the ceiling long term? How thick and heavy is the foam board? Did you grab all this at Home Depot or similar?

Edit: Tracked this stuff down on Amazon.

Just curious how exactly did you glue the velvet to the board? Did you spray on the glue and then lay the velvet over the top or did you lay the velvet face down, spray the board and then lay the board on top of the velvet? Looks like you got it very nice and smooth, so just curious what technique you used.

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post #1549 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I looked in to their product but after trying to repeatedly call and email them I gave up. I am not even sure if they are still in business. I just went and purchased some velvet and foam display board and made my own panels.

I used a spray adhesive to attach the velvet to the foam board on the front and hot glue on the backside. Double sided tape was then used to attach them to the ceiling above my screen.

Probably the best thing I have done in my theater. The ceiling now looks pitch black!
I "second" Toe's question about how you glued the velvet to the board. When I made my velvet boards I went through great trouble to ensure there were wrinkle free and well "set". But after a few days the material started coming lose from the boards (hanging upside down from ceiling) and eventually came all the way lose. Fortunately the staples I used on the underside held. So while the material droops from the board its impossible to tell since the velvet is so dark (loses all dimensionality). I used some 3M spray adhesive that the company told me would work based on the makeup of the velvet backing, but it didn't hold.
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post #1550 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 08:09 PM
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I "second" Toe's question about how you glued the velvet to the board. When I made my velvet boards I went through great trouble to ensure there were wrinkle free and well "set". But after a few days the material started coming lose from the boards (hanging upside down from ceiling) and eventually came all the way lose. Fortunately the staples I used on the underside held. So while the material droops from the board its impossible to tell since the velvet is so dark (loses all dimensionality). I used some 3M spray adhesive that the company told me would work based on the makeup of the velvet backing, but it didn't hold.
Good info!

I am also wondering how well the double sided tape would stick to cardboard? I can grab some large cardboard box pads from work that would be stiff enough to hold the velvet (assuming the spray adhesive would work on cardboard?) and could then just use the tape IF it sticks to cardboard well (?).

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post #1551 of 1837 Old 03-10-2015, 08:43 PM
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Good info!

I am also wondering how well the double sided tape would stick to cardboard? I can grab some large cardboard box pads from work that would be stiff enough to hold the velvet (assuming the spray adhesive would work on cardboard?) and could then just use the tape IF it sticks to cardboard well (?).
I bought a brat gun from HD and used it to "nail" the gatorboards to the drywall ceiling. Once every year or two a spot comes lose and I just shoot another brat in. Its held up well over the past 7+ years (can't remember when I put it in, by my thread on the subject covers it).
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post #1552 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 02:28 AM
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Wow! Nice work! I might just copy what you did here as this looks like a great way to go and better than what I was planning on doing. I take it the double sided tape seems strong enough to hold the panels on the ceiling long term? How thick and heavy is the foam board? Did you grab all this at Home Depot or similar?

Edit: Tracked this stuff down on Amazon.

Just curious how exactly did you glue the velvet to the board? Did you spray on the glue and then lay the velvet over the top or did you lay the velvet face down, spray the board and then lay the board on top of the velvet? Looks like you got it very nice and smooth, so just curious what technique you used.
Thanks! The foam board is about 3/16" thick and is super light. As for the tape it is super strong, every 2" of tape will hold 1lb so I just used lots and it hasn't fallen down on me yet.lol

To get the velvet on the board I first sprayed the board with 3 light coats of adhesive and then had my wife help me lay the velvet on top of the board and we smoothed it out. It smoothed out rather easy for us as we just lightly set it on the foam board to begin.

The foam board and adhesive were purchased at Michaels and the tape came from Home Depot. I picked up the felt at Fabric land on a 50% off sale and it was labeled as Phoenix velvet. This velvet is very thin and almost see through so when I purchased the foam board I made sure to get it in black.
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post #1553 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Wow! Nice work! I might just copy what you did here as this looks like a great way to go and better than what I was planning on doing. I take it the double sided tape seems strong enough to hold the panels on the ceiling long term? How thick and heavy is the foam board? Did you grab all this at Home Depot or similar?

Edit: Tracked this stuff down on Amazon.

Just curious how exactly did you glue the velvet to the board? Did you spray on the glue and then lay the velvet over the top or did you lay the velvet face down, spray the board and then lay the board on top of the velvet? Looks like you got it very nice and smooth, so just curious what technique you used.
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I "second" Toe's question about how you glued the velvet to the board. When I made my velvet boards I went through great trouble to ensure there were wrinkle free and well "set". But after a few days the material started coming lose from the boards (hanging upside down from ceiling) and eventually came all the way lose. Fortunately the staples I used on the underside held. So while the material droops from the board its impossible to tell since the velvet is so dark (loses all dimensionality). I used some 3M spray adhesive that the company told me would work based on the makeup of the velvet backing, but it didn't hold.
Hopefully the adhesive I have use will hold. I am on day 5 now and nothing has come loose as of yet, fingers crossed. The foam board has almost a paper outer layer and the velvet was almost see through so when I glued it I think this really helped. I did try a test piece first and I had to rip the velvet off the foam board so that kind of reassured me that I could get a good bond with the velvet and the foam board.

See my response for Toe's question on how I attached the velvet to the foam board. Hope this helps! I can say I don't think I could ever go back to not having the velvet on the ceiling after just 5 days. It is just a massive improvement and has greatly increased my viewing pleasure and I had flat dark grey ceilings to begin with.
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post #1554 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 02:41 AM
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Good info!

I am also wondering how well the double sided tape would stick to cardboard? I can grab some large cardboard box pads from work that would be stiff enough to hold the velvet (assuming the spray adhesive would work on cardboard?) and could then just use the tape IF it sticks to cardboard well (?).
I think this double sided tape and adhesive would work just fine for you as long as the cardboard you have at work is flat on the exterior. It worked great for me, the foam board I used had a paper outer layer on it.
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post #1555 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 03:04 AM
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Did anyone have found a black carpet as black as the triple black velvet?
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post #1556 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
maybe this is why I also think my image looks better at 6ftl than 16(iris closed vs open). in a pitch black room(which I don't have) your eyes adjust and a bright screen causes eye strain, but a 'comfortably dim' one does not. imo, the issue is not the lack of ambient light, it's the screen being too bright. why put a bandaid on the problem with bias light when you can fix the problem by reduces lumens. especially when you end up getting better blacks and better contrast when you 'accept' that lower lumen projector.
Human vision means that a brighter image is perceived as being more colourful and higher contrast and more detailed than a dim image. And bias lighting can help create the surround effect where by a image with a brighter surround is perceived as darker with the most effect on the darkest parts of the image, so enhancing perceived contrast and colour saturation of the image, while a darker surround make the image perceived as brighter with the most effect on the darkest parts of the image, so decreasing perceived contrast and colour saturation but improving perceived brightness of the image. The problem with brighter image and with bias lighting is to my mind the danger of raising the black floor lowering the contrast and washing out the colour saturation due to room reflections or ambient lighting hitting the screen. Also a lower contrast image will be perceived as being less bright than a higher contrast image that has the same brightness, so less on screen contrast causes the perception of less brightness as well. Using a brighter image and bias lighting is a balancing act or juggling as the potential gains in image can be lost due to the hazard of more unwanted light getting onto the screen. There is also the risk of distraction with the visibility of the bias lighting or room reminding you that you are watching a very good image rather than having nothing but the image visible and being drawn into it.

In a previous post I stated I prefer a image just over 19 foot lamberts in a black room that is not completely non-reflective room, that is not completely covered in black fabric, I am now unsure if that is true as I am once again trying out making my already black room less reflective. I have now covered the entire ceiling with black fabric, raising the ANSI checker board contrast ratio from just over 207:1 to just over 250:1, and I have found that also closing the iris a bit more may mean that I prefer the less reflective black room. Although I am put off trying to make the room even less reflective by using more black velvet due to cost, currently it is a mix with some of the room black velvet and some black cotton.

Out of interest are the black fabrics people are covering their rooms in, including walls and ceilings rated fire safe for walls and ceilings? Is covering the room so going to cause potential problems in respect to home insurance claims in the unfortunate event of a house fire and for that matter in the event of a fire cause the fire to spread more rapidly?

Last edited by dovercat; 03-11-2015 at 05:00 AM.
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post #1557 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 05:00 AM
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I think this double sided tape and adhesive would work just fine for you as long as the cardboard you have at work is flat on the exterior. It worked great for me, the foam board I used had a paper outer layer on it.

Great, thanks for all the info. I will test fly it on the cardboard as you mention with a small piece before doing all of it, or I may just grab the foam. The velvet I am using sounds very similar to yours.

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post #1558 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 07:20 AM
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Great, thanks for all the info. I will test fly it on the cardboard as you mention with a small piece before doing all of it, or I may just grab the foam. The velvet I am using sounds very similar to yours.
Let me know how you make out. I hope it works for you as well as it did for me!
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post #1559 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 08:03 AM
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Did anyone have found a black carpet as black as the triple black velvet?
I don't think it exists. I spent months searching different samples and settled on the blackest one I could find. if you search my previous posts in this thread, I post the brand name + photos.
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post #1560 of 1837 Old 03-11-2015, 08:20 AM
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I don't think it exists. I spent months searching different samples and settled on the blackest one I could find. if you search my previous posts in this thread, I post the brand name + photos.
Thank you for answering... but on the Smartphone it is not easy tk find your post!

An other question to everybody:
Did you measure your ansi contrast at the screen after going all black? :-)
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