"Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?) - Page 79 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2341 of 2803 Old 04-28-2016, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I was well aware of Rosco when you got yours. I even gave the builder the source but he didn't get it. One small irritant in what was otherwise an incredible building experience. The woodwork and cabinetry are incredible and I couldn't be happier. At least I got him to order the proper tiles for the drop ceiling. Speaking of that, the ceiling frames are covered with Protostar due to ease of application with the sticky back. I can see it near the screen in the four foot area but it is minimally intrusive (I'm the only one who notices. )

In order to get the camera to see anything at all I had to light it up with a 600 lumen security flashlight. Everything is much blacker than it appears but at least you can see the relative difference between velvet and Protostar.

I know what you mean. I have three 65 watt spot lights, right above my screen. When I take a picture with the lights on full, you would think, I just lit a small candle in the room.

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post #2342 of 2803 Old 04-28-2016, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I know what you mean. I have three 65 watt spot lights, right above my screen. When I take a picture with the lights on full, you would think, I just lit a small candle in the room.
Exactly. I have 6 ceiling mounted can lights and when you walk into the room it still seems dark. Weird, but that sort of behavior is the heart of a performance theater.

This summer I'll be installing 4 RSL C34E speakers in the ceiling for Dolby Atmos and obtain an appropriate 7.2.4 AVR.

Theaters are fun, no?

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post #2343 of 2803 Old 04-28-2016, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Exactly. I have 6 ceiling mounted can lights and when you walk into the room it still seems dark. Weird, but that sort of behavior is the heart of a performance theater.

This summer I'll be installing 4 RSL C34E speakers in the ceiling for Dolby Atmos and obtain an appropriate 7.2.4 AVR.

Theaters are fun, no?
I think you will like Atmos. I am using JBL Pro 8340's for my surround and Atmos speakers. I use the Dolby Atmos processing for all of my movies.

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post #2344 of 2803 Old 04-28-2016, 09:44 AM
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Mike, I'd like to see a picture of your screen/room.


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post #2345 of 2803 Old 04-28-2016, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I think you will like Atmos. I am using JBL Pro 8340's for my surround and Atmos speakers. I use the Dolby Atmos processing for all of my movies.
There have been so many good reports that I cannot resist. Presently the theater is all JTR 7.2 with 4000 watts RMS subwoofer power. The nuances that Atmos supposedly provides is irresistible. Admittedly, I've not yet heard Atmos, but in a week I'll be going to an Atmos theater in the Twin Cities and hear for myself.

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post #2346 of 2803 Old 04-28-2016, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Mike, I'd like to see a picture of your screen/room.
Baffle wall build using Beyma TPL-150H

Note that the sound panels that look light gray, are actually dark gray. Just the black walls and the camera make them look so light colored.
http://s243.photobucket.com/user/mjg...tml?sort=3&o=0
Same panels in another room. Now they look dark.
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post #2347 of 2803 Old 04-28-2016, 03:17 PM
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For a point of reference, this is the Behr Premium flat in Mouse Ears, taken while it was still a bit wet, with full sunlight coming from an 84x68 window and a worklight pointed at it. It got a bit darker and of course less reflective as the paint cured. Picture quality isn't great as the camera was having trouble focusing. For the price, I'm pretty impressed. Still planning on getting the velvet when the price is right, but after getting the paint up, I realized I can wait till I get the deal I want on it.
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post #2348 of 2803 Old 04-30-2016, 04:41 AM
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I'm almost done with painting the new upstairs theater room. I used Glidden "Deep Onyx" and while it did a decent job I imagine there are better alternatives. Roller marks and a poor job of hiding the former white color are my main issues, but with only one coat I can't expect miracles. I'll use black velvet around the screen area and test some other paints for a second coat, doing one small area at a time. My black carpet has been installed for a couple months now and I need to get the projector set up and watch some movies!
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post #2349 of 2803 Old 04-30-2016, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I was well aware of Rosco when you got yours. I even gave the builder the source but he didn't get it. One small irritant in what was otherwise an incredible building experience. The woodwork and cabinetry are incredible and I couldn't be happier. At least I got him to order the proper tiles for the drop ceiling. Speaking of that, the ceiling frames are covered with Protostar due to ease of application with the sticky back. I can see it near the screen in the four foot area but it is minimally intrusive (I'm the only one who notices. )



In order to get the camera to see anything at all I had to light it up with a 600 lumen security flashlight. Everything is much blacker than it appears but at least you can see the relative difference between velvet and Protostar.





I just bought the Protostar tape for the ceiling grid. Thanks for the pictures, it helped me make the decision vs. trying to paint them. I started my building the tiles with GOM fabric. I'll post some pictures in the coming weeks.
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post #2350 of 2803 Old 04-30-2016, 07:13 PM
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I just bought the Protostar tape for the ceiling grid. Thanks for the pictures, it helped me make the decision vs. trying to paint them. I started my building the tiles with GOM fabric. I'll post some pictures in the coming weeks.
Thanks for your input. In retrospect, I didn't consider painting the framework. Perhaps that could hae resulted in a better result. The picture I posted as I said only gives a relative view. Actually, the ProtoStar is quite black but not as black and non reflective as velvet. Trust me though, nobody sees any of it but me.

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post #2351 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Thanks for your input. In retrospect, I didn't consider painting the framework. Perhaps that could hae resulted in a better result. The picture I posted as I said only gives a relative view. Actually, the ProtoStar is quite black but not as black and non reflective as velvet. Trust me though, nobody sees any of it but me.
Two weeks ago I received a large roll of Protostar. I completely covered my L/R/C speakers and what a difference it made, speakers seemed to disappear. Yesterday I received my order of Joanne Royalty 3 Velvet which I temporarily hung left and right of the screen on the walls just behind the L/R main speakers. Now the Protostar looks gray in comparison, the velvet is invisible compared to the Protostar. I also have a roll of TY Fabric black velvet on the way for comparison, I expect it will not perform as well as the Royalty 3 velvet based on what others have reported.

I'm thinking of using the TY Fabric velvet or the Joanne Royalty3 velvet for some acoustic covering if it's suitable, has anyone tried this?
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post #2352 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Two weeks ago I received a large roll of Protostar. I completely covered my L/R/C speakers and what a difference it made, speakers seemed to disappear. Yesterday I received my order of Joanne Royalty 3 Velvet which I temporarily hung left and right of the screen on the walls just behind the L/R main speakers. Now the Protostar looks gray in comparison, the velvet is invisible compared to the Protostar. I also have a roll of TY Fabric black velvet on the way for comparison, I expect it will not perform as well as the Royalty 3 velvet based on what others have reported.

I'm thinking of using the TY Fabric velvet or the Joanne Royalty3 velvet for some acoustic covering if it's suitable, has anyone tried this?
I previously posted in this thread how I used the JoAnn Royalty 3 velvet to cover my speakers and the method used; in short, I used carpet tape over painter tape on the speaker (as to not damage the wood finish) placing the velvet over it. It has held up well. Carpet tape is very sticky and it binds well with the velvet and painter tape.

Even though my speakers were black, the shiny wood finish was very distracting during movies as I use bookshelf speakers which are mounted below my screen. I wanted the most potent method available and it has done the job as I no longer find them distracting at all. I did not actually cover the speaker area itself or the bass radiator.


Edit...here's the discussion: "Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?)


"Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?)



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post #2353 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I previously posted in this thread how I used the JoAnn Royalty 3 velvet to cover my speakers and the method used; in short, I used carpet tape over painter tape on the speaker (as to not damage the wood finish) placing the velvet over it. It has held up well. Carpet tape is very sticky and it binds well with the velvet and painter tape.

Even though my speakers were black, the shiny wood finish was very distracting during movies as I use bookshelf speakers which are mounted below my screen. I wanted the most potent method available and it has done the job as I no longer find them distracting at all.


Edit...here's the discussion: "Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?)
Back years ago, when I had a 16:9 AT screen with mains, left and right of screen, I did the following. I took a strip of velvet that was a few inches wider than the depth of my speakers and longer than twice the height plus width of the speaker. I folded both edges of the velvet, so that it was about a 1/4" wider than the depth of my speakers. I then tilted the speaker and tucked one end of the velvet under the speaker. Then wrapped the velvet up, over the top and back down the other side, making sure the velvet lined up with front edge of the baffle. Then I tilted the speaker and tucked the end under the speaker. Gave a nice wrinkle free look to the velvet and yet no attachment to the speakers. I used this method on a few different sets of speakers and it only took a few minutes to do and the speakers disappeared.

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post #2354 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Back years ago, when I had a 16:9 AT screen with mains, left and right of screen, I did the following. I took a strip of velvet that was a few inches wider than the depth of my speakers and longer than twice the height plus width of the speaker. I folded both edges of the velvet, so that it was about a 1/4" wider than the depth of my speakers. I then tilted the speaker and tucked one end of the velvet under the speaker. Then wrapped the velvet up, over the top and back down the other side, making sure the velvet lined up with front edge of the baffle. Then I tilted the speaker and tucked the end under the speaker. Gave a nice wrinkle free look to the velvet and yet no attachment to the speakers. I used this method on a few different sets of speakers and it only took a few minutes to do and the speakers disappeared.
I paid a lot of money for the Protostar but will likely remove this in favour of the velvet. Your method will save on the gluing but I may just go ahead and glue it on anyway.I expect the Protostar to come off easily I hope.

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post #2355 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I previously posted in this thread how I used the JoAnn Royalty 3 velvet to cover my speakers and the method used; in short, I used carpet tape over painter tape on the speaker (as to not damage the wood finish) placing the velvet over it. It has held up well. Carpet tape is very sticky and it binds well with the velvet and painter tape.

Even though my speakers were black, the shiny wood finish was very distracting during movies as I use bookshelf speakers which are mounted below my screen. I wanted the most potent method available and it has done the job as I no longer find them distracting at all. I did not actually cover the speaker area itself or the bass radiator.


Edit...here's the discussion: "Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?)


"Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?)
Thanks, and very nice, I may copy your method and remove the Protostar. Either way the Joanne Royalty 3 is much better.

I have a big problem now though. I have the desire to completely cover my walls with black velvet, including the custom cherry wood columns . All invitations to my theater from here on in will be black tie only.
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post #2356 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 10:14 AM
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I just find it odd that members can't accept that JoAnn Royalty 3 will decidedly best any product discussed anywhere in this entire thread. Additionally, there are numerous ways to attach the fabric to ceiling, walls, and any other surface which don't necessitate nail guns and glue, etc. I recommend trying poster board (from Walmart, for example). The thicker, inflexible type. Cut out frames and wrap the fabric around the frame. Staple. Affix small pieces of velcro tape to the back side frame corners. Attach to ceiling or wall.

On another note, where does reflected light most impact the viewing experience. Assume projector mounted high in back of room. For example, does light reflect from the screen back to a somewhat reflective back wall (the wall behind the projector) and then does that light end up back at the screen?

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post #2357 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
I just find it odd that members can't accept that JoAnn Royalty 3 will decidedly best any product discussed anywhere in this entire thread. Additionally, there are numerous ways to attach the fabric to ceiling, walls, and any other surface which don't necessitate nail guns and glue, etc. I recommend trying poster board (from Walmart, for example). The thicker, inflexible type. Cut out frames and wrap the fabric around the frame. Staple. Affix small pieces of velcro tape to the back side frame corners. Attach to ceiling or wall.

On another note, where does reflected light most impact the viewing experience. Assume projector mounted high in back of room. For example, does light reflect from the screen back to a somewhat reflective back wall (the wall behind the projector) and then does that light end up back at the screen?
I'm pretty sure the area directly in front of the screen is most critical as light scatter from the screen will light that up first and that includes floor, ceiling , side walls and components. Darkening up this area will yield the biggest bang for your buck but, if everything else is really light further back that will not help. Bat cave means it is still dark when the projector is on not only when its off . JMHO .

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post #2358 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I'm pretty sure the area directly in front of the screen is most critical as light scatter from the screen will light that up first and that includes floor, ceiling , side walls and components. Darkening up this area will yield the biggest bang for your buck but, if everything else is really light further back that will not help. Bat cave means it is still dark when the projector is on not only when its off . JMHO .
Looking for a ranking.

1) Screen area - around the wall to which the screen is attached, the ceiling above the screen, the side walls adjacent to the screen wall, and the floor directly below the screen. Especially critical for Stewart ST100 and other similar screen fabrics.

2) Side walls and ceiling out to the viewing area (?)

3) ?

4) ?

5) ?

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post #2359 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Thanks, and very nice, I may copy your method and remove the Protostar. Either way the Joanne Royalty 3 is much better.

I have a big problem now though. I have the desire to completely cover my walls with black velvet, including the custom cherry wood columns . All invitations to my theater from here on in will be black tie only.
You just get several Ninja suits for guests.
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post #2360 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
I just find it odd that members can't accept that JoAnn Royalty 3 will decidedly best any product discussed anywhere in this entire thread. Additionally, there are numerous ways to attach the fabric to ceiling, walls, and any other surface which don't necessitate nail guns and glue, etc. I recommend trying poster board (from Walmart, for example). The thicker, inflexible type. Cut out frames and wrap the fabric around the frame. Staple. Affix small pieces of velcro tape to the back side frame corners. Attach to ceiling or wall.

On another note, where does reflected light most impact the viewing experience. Assume projector mounted high in back of room. For example, does light reflect from the screen back to a somewhat reflective back wall (the wall behind the projector) and then does that light end up back at the screen?
Yes it certainly can. One easy way to find out what reflects back on the screen in a particular room, is the flashlight test. Just stand with your back to the screen ( in the pitch black ) with a powerful flashlight, and point it where light off the screen will reflect. Then see if the light on the screen becomes elevated. The back wall was one item I found that I had to darken. The glass on our popcorn machine ( way at the back of the room ) was another offender ( I made a matt black shield for that ).
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post #2361 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Yes it certainly can. One easy way to find out what reflects back on the screen in a particular room, is the flashlight test. Just stand with your back to the screen ( in the pitch black ) with a powerful flashlight, and point it where light off the screen will reflect. Then see if the light on the screen becomes elevated. The back wall was one item I found that I had to darken. The glass on our popcorn machine ( way at the back of the room ) was another offender ( I made a matt black shield for that ).
Love the Ninja suit idea, excellent. Wonder if they come in black velvet? Edit: missed the uni-cycling Ninja, that is a great idea too . While on vacation I picked up a complete Grinch costume for the Christmas parade this coming year, will have to do the Ninja next year.

Last night I was watching a movie and couldn't figure out why my screen seemed brighter in the lower left corner. I paused the movie to investigate and when I turned around there it was, the culprit. One little blue led light on the HEPA filter 15feet back. Turning that off made a world of difference, can't imagine what a rear white wall would do to the contrast.

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post #2362 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Love the Ninja suit idea, excellent. Wonder if they come in black velvet? Edit: missed the uni-cycling Ninja, that is a great idea too . While on vacation I picked up a complete Grinch costume for the Christmas parade this coming year, will have to do the Ninja next year.

Last night I was watching a movie and couldn't figure out why my screen seemed brighter in the lower left corner. I paused the movie to investigate and when I turned around there it was, the culprit. One little blue led light on the HEPA filter 15feet back. Turning that off made a world of difference, can't imagine what a rear white wall would do to the contrast.
That's why I put Protostar and black velvet curtains on the projector closet wall directly behind me. Any light in the room is noticable. Next time someone looks at their I Phone in my theater, I'll scream " you're killing my contrast man "
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post #2363 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 11:53 AM
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post #2364 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 11:57 AM
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Those white socks are un-acceptable !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Love the Ninja suit idea, excellent. Wonder if they come in black velvet? Edit: missed the uni-cycling Ninja, that is a great idea too . While on vacation I picked up a complete Grinch costume for the Christmas parade this coming year, will have to do the Ninja next year.

Last night I was watching a movie and couldn't figure out why my screen seemed brighter in the lower left corner. I paused the movie to investigate and when I turned around there it was, the culprit. One little blue led light on the HEPA filter 15feet back. Turning that off made a world of difference, can't imagine what a rear white wall would do to the contrast.
That was me that posted the links. Since we talked about your unicycle riding, I thought you would get a kick out of the link.
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post #2366 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
But are they made of Royalty 3 velvet?

Just thinking. With one of those suits on I could watch movies all night and she would never know I'm there, blend right in with the furniture. Then again I would have to watch without sound, and I guess with the projector off. Excellent off contrast that way though, would just need a great imagination.

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Took some searching my I'm armed with 25 yards of Royalty 3 velvet (total pain to find) and 250 thumb tacks. I know that won't cover a ton of my room, but it should be enough to totally cover the front wall and maybe some of the side wall.

For what it's worth, at least two people at Joann's informed me that it looks like the Royalty 3 may be getting phased out. They had abnormally low amounts in the warehouse and didn't show any future shipments. I ended up placing an order for 25 yards, which was a about a quarter of the remaining inventory.
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post #2368 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Can't imagine what a rear white wall would do to the contrast.
Nothing good! I can attest. Add to that, a rear white ceiling... I have only treated the first 2m of the ceiling with black cardboard and blu-tac. Thats about the best I can do in my apartment while I am renting...

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post #2369 of 2803 Old 05-05-2016, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Nothing good! I can attest. Add to that, a rear white ceiling... I have only treated the first 2m of the ceiling with black cardboard and blu-tac. Thats about the best I can do in my apartment while I am renting...

That is indeed unfortunate. Can you rig up some kind of curtain wall or use double sided Velcro for a temporary solution possibly ? If your there for a long time I'm sure there is an option, if only temporary then it may be prudent just to wait.

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post #2370 of 2803 Old 05-06-2016, 06:00 AM
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"Black" Theater Improvment Thread (Once you go black you never go back?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
That is indeed unfortunate. Can you rig up some kind of curtain wall or use double sided Velcro for a temporary solution possibly ? If your there for a long time I'm sure there is an option, if only temporary then it may be prudent just to wait.
Well, so today I got psyched, went down to my local fabric store and picked up 10metres of black velvet... I wouldn't say its as good as the Royal 3 stuff you guys have in the US (You guys have NO IDEA how lucky you all are to have access to simple things very cheap such as that) but it will do.

Went to the hardware strore and bought 3 sheets of Corflute, spray adhesive, velcro tabs and some good old duct tape. Came home, cut everything down to 600x1000mm panels and got to work gluing and taping.

A couple hours later and holy hell. Hello contrast! Or should I said hello ANSI contrast. I already actually had some black cardboard in place before I pulled it all down and replaced it with velvet. Now the velvet panels extend about 1.8m from the screen wall and about 1m to the left of the screen which is about 40cm wider and 60cm or so deeper than I had it before.

I cut some velvet and laid it on my center channel, and lined the sides of my left and right speakers with it.

I am not sure what the actual data is on the improvement but my wife and I were pretty shocked at the in scene contrast gains. Everything just looks so much more cinematic. I pulled out the ND Filter and added that to reduce the black floor just a little more and its now perfection! I was getting 17fl before the ND filter, I am not sure what I am getting now, but everything seems fine to me, its probably something like 9fl, but I have to say I kind of prefer it. Bright scenes are still bright to my eyes after my eyes adjust to the darkness and all seems balanced. Really wish the 300ES had an Iris so I could do this without the need for a filter.

Here is a pretty crappy cell phone pic...



I couldn't be happier. At least when this apartment is concerned. I cannot wait to move house so I can paint the whole room black, THEN hang these very same panels up to further the whole effect.

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