Epson 5020 vs Sony VPL-HW50ES - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 99 Old 09-10-2013, 11:36 AM
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I think the Sony is the better movie projector, but I think the Epson is better for HTPC and better in 3D due to brightness, I never saw the Sony in 3D as a disclosure, heck I only recently saw the Sony setup somewhat correctly in 2D only.

I think RC is over-hyped to be honest, yah it can make the image sharper, but it does add a lot of grain. The problem is you never know when one of those UH OH moments come from it and it adds grain to the image out of the blue. One of my family members has that Sony Bluray Player with the same thing as RC, and let me mess with it at my house, and I was checking RC on different projectors, it was interesting sort of. However, I never really found that I could leave it on before noticing. The biggest thing that bothered me, is I kept thinking, is this grain there naturally or is it RC, so I kept playing with the settings to the point of madness.

I disagree that the Epson NEVER pops more than an LCOS, I've said before (and yes I've seen both, though I haven't spent much time with that specific Sony at all), but I owned an older Sony and now have a JVC, so let's talk...

I think in some closeups of faces or a "roundish" perspective angle (hard to explain), an LCD can POP more and look more 3Dish than LCOS. At other times LCD looks flatter (wider angle shots), so I think LCD is just more inconsistent and that's why the Sony wins. My issue is more about consistency and pixel fill with the Epson, not to mention convergence and QC. The refurb nightmares are still ongoing, some guy claims to have gone through 11 units (that was the 3010 and 3020, but still). There are a lot of people that have gone through 3-6 units in the Epson 5010 thread, that is problematic. Oh yah and the IRIS, Sony wins for movies :P



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post #92 of 99 Old 09-10-2013, 11:56 AM
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This post is a classic.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433899/official-epson-home-cinema-3020-thread/870#post_23720264

"So my total is 10 [-Replacements-]...felt like more. Patience is a key.
And after the projected image of the EPSON 3020.
At a price below $3,000. I Think it's great."



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post #93 of 99 Old 09-10-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

Sony class = $4000 MSRP
Epson class = $2600 MSRP

Epson is best value in its own class obviously and considering it matches the Sony in PQ in most ways and beats it in a few, I'd say the Epson is competitive even in the Sony class if they charged the same price. That says a lot about the Epson value imo.

We seem to be going in circles on this vs that. I posted the facts above which nobody has disagreed with so if those advantages are worth an extra $1000 to that person so be it. All other oppinons on what's best has more to do with what fullfills their specific application and needs.


Yes the Epson is competitive but I was merely pointed out that Art the same reviewer you were referring to prefers the Sony over the Epson in the $2000 - $3500 class. You can get the Sony for less than $3500 and that's a fact, it also has an extra year of warranty and a spare bulb. So the price difference does get even smaller.

It just seemed like you were drawing your own conclusions that the reviewer felt the Epson was better, when he clearly said he would take the Sony.

In the end, it's value to each one of us, the Value of the pros I had listed were worth the extra at the time for the Sony over the Epson.


Competitively, the big decision was Epson vs. Sony. Although brightness and other features vary, I see it this way. In each of the last few years, the Epson "UB" projector was our winner in this price class. this year, I have to personally concede, that price being equal, this Sony I consider the slightly better choice, at least the one I would pick of the two, for a dedicated theater. Those Epson's would have the advantage in a family room, with their 50% brighter "brightest" mode, but when it comes to best color, the brightess advantage is all Sony in this case. As you can see, there are plenty of trade-offs. I found Sony's Reality Creation to be the best dynamic detail enhancement feature I've seen.


Assuming both Sony and Epson projectors will well work in your environment, let me conclude this way: I'd say the Sony VPL-HW50ES is the best projector in this class. And if both Sony and Epson cost the same, I'd say the Sony is the better value. But with about a real $800 difference, favoring the Epson at this time, it's probably the better value proposition. Ultimately, you will have to make that call, which will likely be based on budget and specific features that relate to your needs.

Ultimately, the Sony is a great projector, with the type of overall picture quality we all appreciate. A well deserved win for the the Sony VPL-HW50ES.


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post #94 of 99 Old 09-10-2013, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Now I'm a fan boy? I was dead set on buying the Epson due to the cost savings but when I shopped around, and compared the two, the Sony came out on top. It's fine if that's not the case for you but you need to stop acting as if the Epson is somehow vastly superior.

If you had bothered to read the rest of my sentence, the only dealers willing to budge on the Epson price were those that you purchased a screen and/or other expensive items from. Most stuck with the price, or at most went to 10% discount after spending thousands elsewhere. Please provide a source for the street price of $2300.

And in the case of the input lag, it is not juts 16ms. No one has been able to reproduce that 50ms lag number. Most estimates put it at 60+. Moreover, since it does not have a dedicated game mode, the lag is inconsistent. Sometimes it will be as low as 60 (maybe even 50) but in the same exact mode without changing anything it can get much higher.

FYI, 16ms is one frame and 30+ is 2 frames. If you don't think that's significant for online, fast twitch games then obviously input lag isn't a big deal to you. You seem like an Epson fanboy way more than anyone here is a Sony fanboy.

All Authorized dealers are required to sell the Epson 5020 for $2,599. The dealer can choose to give free shipping or not. Epson sets the selling price. Any dealer selling below that price is risking their dealership. Also the 6020 is supposed to only be available from local dealers. So those can't be sold outside a dealers territory.

Both are good projectors and my recommendation on which one to go with comes down to the room, screen size, screen gain and what the customer is wanting to use the projector for. As for my personal favorite, you would have to call me. smile.gif

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post #95 of 99 Old 09-10-2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

All Authorized dealers are required to sell the Epson 5020 for $2,599. The dealer can choose to give free shipping or not. Epson sets the selling price. Any dealer selling below that price is risking their dealership. Also the 6020 is supposed to only be available from local dealers. So those can't be sold outside a dealers territory.

Both are good projectors and my recommendation on which one to go with comes down to the room, screen size, screen gain and what the customer is wanting to use the projector for. As for my personal favorite, you would have to call me. smile.gif

Thanks Mike. That matches what I experienced as well. Ironically, the only dealer willing to drop the price on the 5020 was best buy, and they would only do so if I bought several items (including a screen) from them. In that case they offered about $200 off the projector.

The new Epson supposedly has a dedicated game mode and CFI in 3d. It will be very competitive; even more so than the current generation.

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post #96 of 99 Old 09-10-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Thanks Mike. That matches what I experienced as well. Ironically, the only dealer willing to drop the price on the 5020 was best buy, and they would only do so if I bought several items (including a screen) from them. In that case they offered about $200 off the projector.

The new Epson supposedly has a dedicated game mode and CFI in 3d. It will be very competitive; even more so than the current generation.

I should clarify, "online authorized dealers" which don't have to pay employees, store rent, insurance, commissions and what not. You guys are talking about brick and mortar stores.

Not enough changes in the 5030 coming out for me to wait but it sounds like they are addressing customers needs.
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post #97 of 99 Old 09-10-2013, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

All Authorized dealers are required to sell the Epson 5020 for $2,599. The dealer can choose to give free shipping or not. Epson sets the selling price. Any dealer selling below that price is risking their dealership. Also the 6020 is supposed to only be available from local dealers. So those can't be sold outside a dealers territory.

Both are good projectors and my recommendation on which one to go with comes down to the room, screen size, screen gain and what the customer is wanting to use the projector for. As for my personal favorite, you would have to call me. smile.gif

Since you are a dealer asking full MSRP, I'm not surprised of this comment.

Is this true for internet dealers with no brick and mortar store who drop ship directly from the warehouse? This typically means around 25% discounts since you don't have to pay someone commission and store rent etc. I think you mean they cannot "advertise" lower than MSRP prices? but they can sell for whatever they want.
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post #98 of 99 Old 09-11-2013, 04:25 PM
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If they are a factory authorized Epson dealer selling for below that price they can have their authority pulled if someone reports the infraction. You seem to be somewhat very pro-Epson as the "ultimate all around machine " but as someone who has worked with, calibrated, and installed quite a few of the Epson , Sony, JVC units I can say with personally experience that is very "Room and Budget" dependent. If you have a less than ideal room , very little light control, want the brightest image possible without being overly concerned with correct colors , and want the cheapest price of the 3 the Epson is a good bet. The 3D is very nice and you can even correct the color scheme with a LE lens from Europe if you can find one but at a significant cost that will put you probably passed the Sony price. You seem to be impressed with the Black level of the Epson but if you see the Epson, Sony, JVC together you'll be somewhat less likely to have THAT opinion! !! ;-) .The Epson is a good deal, but neither its image or iris is anywhere near the level of the Sony. The JVC. ... the Epson just isn't remotely close. The image on the Epson just doesn't compare closely to the Sony or JVC in critical viewing. The "most people couldn't tell the difference"would have to be a VERY bad room.!!! I'M not bashing the Epson, it has a better picture than a great deal of it's competition but not the ones you seem to want to compare it to.
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post #99 of 99 Old 04-14-2014, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hardvark View Post

If they are a factory authorized Epson dealer selling for below that price they can have their authority pulled if someone reports the infraction. You seem to be somewhat very pro-Epson as the "ultimate all around machine " but as someone who has worked with, calibrated, and installed quite a few of the Epson , Sony, JVC units I can say with personally experience that is very "Room and Budget" dependent. If you have a less than ideal room , very little light control, want the brightest image possible without being overly concerned with correct colors , and want the cheapest price of the 3 the Epson is a good bet. The 3D is very nice and you can even correct the color scheme with a LE lens from Europe if you can find one but at a significant cost that will put you probably passed the Sony price. You seem to be impressed with the Black level of the Epson but if you see the Epson, Sony, JVC together you'll be somewhat less likely to have THAT opinion! !! ;-) .The Epson is a good deal, but neither its image or iris is anywhere near the level of the Sony. The JVC. ... the Epson just isn't remotely close. The image on the Epson just doesn't compare closely to the Sony or JVC in critical viewing. The "most people couldn't tell the difference"would have to be a VERY bad room.!!! I'M not bashing the Epson, it has a better picture than a great deal of it's competition but not the ones you seem to want to compare it to.

It's possible that these authorized dealers are somehow obtaining B stock items for less than the authorized price. I received stuff from a guy named Kevin McEvoy (htdtheater) who sold me some items at less than authorized prices you mentioned and at the same time every item purchased has been defective in some way. Just thought I would add that and also a buyer beware. You do get what you pay for. I have had a defective Onkyo 3010, Martin Logans and missing mesh grills.
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