Good deal on Epson 6010 / Black Diamond (1.4 /92") - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Gents,
My 60" Sony LCD is on it's last leg and just as I started researching projectors / screens as a possible replacement I found a place that is selling their demo units for almost 50% off. I can get the Epson 6010 with a Black Diamond 1.4 gain / 92" fixed screen for $3500. The Epson has about 1500 hours on it.
My viewing distance ranges from 9' at the closest to 13.5' for most of the seating (see pic). I was originally thinking at least a 100" screen and because it will go in a living room with some ambient light I was looking at the black diamond screens (but $2600 to $3600 for new) mainly because I think I need it for my room because I want to watch during the day without completely blacking out my room. I will mostly be watching sports (Baseball, Football, Golf) but also want to get as much of the full immersive theater experience for movies as I can without having a dedicated theater room.

My main hesitation is that the screen is only 92" but based on my viewing distance I was curious what others think about the deal for both the Epson 6010 and the BD screen for my room. It seems a great price / level to get my feet wet in the two piece projection arena. Any comments or recommendations is greatly appreciated. I added the specs of my room assuming I correctly attached the image. I am tryting to make a decision on this in the next few days.

Thanks all...

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post #2 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 07:48 AM
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How much if they just sell you the screen by itself?
1500 hours is quite a bit of hours for an LCD projector. Since they are a dealer, does the Epson warranty start from day 0 on that PJ?

I would get a refurb or new 5010 or 5020 before paying that much for a used 6010.

Also, using special screens to enhance viewing in ambient light conditions only goes so far. If you setup the lighting in the room to point away from the screen and do it correctly, you can do it without really needing that screen. Though the BD is said to be one of the best for that purpose, but Da-Lite also has some materials which help, like the Da-Lite High Power screen, which also can provide a small boost in contrast under those conditions (if you set the lighting up correctly). Or get any gray screen with a positive gain.


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post #3 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 08:01 AM
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BTW, I would email or call Mike Garrett @ AV Science Sales and ask him what he thinks about the deal.
Call 585-671-2968
Email: Mike@AVScience.com

Even though he also sales projectors, he will give you an honest answer about it.
I think he has seen the BD screen in ambient light conditions and he also has seen more screens than most of us.
He might have some thoughts for you.


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post #4 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 09:58 AM
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Yes, I have even seen the BD screen in a light controlled room, my room. smile.gif I have also viewed them with lots of ambient light, in my room and in other rooms.

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post #5 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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The screen by itself would be $1200. They are asking $2100 for the Epson 6010. Considering the 6020 is $3500ish new and that there is not much difference between the 6010 and 6020 (that I am aware of) it still seems to be a good price even with 1500hrs but I defer to the experts. It comes with a new lamp and everything else a new unit would come with (ceiling mount, 3d glasses, etc...). He also said I would get the original factory warranty. I didn't ask but that is probably based on what is left. I'm thinking I can probably negotiate a "same warranty as new" but not sure. Is there a better used unit I should be looking at in that price range?
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post #6 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howletus View Post

The screen by itself would be $1200. They are asking $2100 for the Epson 6010. Considering the 6020 is $3500ish new and that there is not much difference between the 6010 and 6020 (that I am aware of) it still seems to be a good price even with 1500hrs but I defer to the experts. It comes with a new lamp and everything else a new unit would come with (ceiling mount, 3d glasses, etc...). He also said I would get the original factory warranty. I didn't ask but that is probably based on what is left. I'm thinking I can probably negotiate a "same warranty as new" but not sure. Is there a better used unit I should be looking at in that price range?

Technically the warranty is not transferable, though Epson has honored for some. Lot of hours on the projector. I would not be willing to spend $2,100 for a 6010 with 1,500 hours. Low hour JVC B-stocks with full manufacturer's warranty go for less.

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post #7 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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And by that logic would you also say that $3500+ for a brand new Epson 6020u is also not worth it? I thought the Epson projectors were good value for what you get and they get decent reviews. If new, I was looking at the 6020 or maybe I might consider stretching a bit for the Sony VPL-HW50. I was hoping to stay in the $4000 range for PJ and screen if possible. Is there a reliability problem with the Epson's. What else should I be concerned about besides the lamp with 1500 hours? If I get a second new lamp with it and still have half the life left on the original, I don't understand why this is not a good deal. Please expand on what your concerns would be.

Thanks...
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post #8 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 09:26 PM
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Very simply, you can get an Epson 5010 for $2000 NEW and it is the same projector as the Epson 6010. The insides are identical. The differences are the 6010 comes with a black case, spare bulb, ceiling mount, and an extra year warranty. If I left anything out, someone will let me know.
So you are basically paying $100 for a used projector to get an extra bulb and an extra year warranty, when you could just get a new one for $100 less without the new bulb and extra warranty and what not...

Then as Mike noted, you can get a JVC B-stock for less than that. Though if your end-result viewing is tied to keeping some lights on in the room, I'd say the Epson is the better choice over a JVC.

That said, except for the ambient light issue:
I can tell you first hand that if you are not going to be doing a lot of 3D, the JVC is the better projector over the Epson. Why is it better?
Well, it's more feature rich with motorized focus, lens shift, and most samples are sharper than the Epson (despite what some Pro reviews claim).

The JVC also has a higher pixel fill which results in a more film-like image, plus it does better blacks even without an IRIS, which means in films things look smoother in dark scenes and less inconsistent.
The build quality is better as well IMO. LCOS has semi-sealed optics and is less likely to get a dust blob.

The only three areas the Epson beats the JVC that most would notice would likely be:
1) Color Accuracy, though you need to calibrate the Epson if possible
2) 3D Ghosting - The Epson produces a cleaner 3D image.
3) Ambient Viewing Brightness - The Epson is brighter than the JVC in the Epson's torch mode, but the JVC is brighter than the Epson if they are both in their most color-accurate modes.

I am not saying the Epson is a bad projector, it's not, but it's not the best you can do in this price range if your main focus is movies (and I dare say with some Sports even). I think the JVC's speciality isn't Sports, but it still does fine. The problem with you buying the JVC is the torch mode isn't there like the Epson has.


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post #9 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 10:30 PM
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If I had a light controlled theatre I'd get the JVC. If it's a family room with windows and blinds I'd get the Epson. Your going to lose all the best stuff on the JVC unless your room is blacked out.

Either way both projectors are amazing compared to what was around even 4 years ago. I'd offer them $3000 and walk if they don't like it. Coderguy's numbers are pretty good.
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post #10 of 11 Old 04-04-2013, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Coderguy,
You are awesome. That is exaclty the kind of info I was looking for and appreciate you taking the time to explain. My price range for new (PJ and screen) is around $4000 but I am willing stretch a little bit if it makes sense. I think I've been so focused on brightness BECAUSE I'm looking to replace my Sony KDF-60XS955 (optical block issue and getting worse every day) with a PJ system that will give me "acceptable" viewing during the day for sports but also provide a more immersive movie watching experience than my 60" Sony LCD did. I know I have to accept the fact that I will have to compromise one way or the other. I guess I just have to do more research. My thought process was that if I get a bright projector and a Black Diamond screen I would cover all my bases but maybe that's not the right way to approach it. I just think I can get more bang for my buck going the projector route than spending $6 to $8K on a giant LED TV. I guess the next approach is to look at the best projector in my price range for movie watching and then see if the daytime viewing is "acceptable". The problem then becomes the screen. Do I have to spent $2K+ on a screen just to get marginal brightness to watch Sunday football that's not in a blacked out room? I need to find someone that can advise me on the best PJ screen combination for my situation. Ideally I could try a few different PJ / screen combinations in my room and get the one that gives me the best results for my price range. Not sure if that's an option though.
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post #11 of 11 Old 04-04-2013, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice kingpin. Maybe I will do just that. I do think the 92" black diamond screen, while at a good price, is going to leave me wanting for a bigger screen. Maybe I get it to test out different projectors in my room and then sell it and get the screen I really want once I have made up my mind.
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