Mitsubishi HC5 vs. Sony HW50 vs 2 pj solution (JVC RS45 & ?) - AVS Forum
Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Mitsubishi HC5 vs. Sony HW50 vs 2 pj solution (JVC RS45 & ?)
jimmy12's Avatar jimmy12 06:47 AM 04-04-2013
As many threads that have come before it, I am starting a thread looking for some assistance in determining my next pj purchase.

I'm considering the following options, and note that the numbers provided in this comparison table are very rough approximations gathered from projectorreviews, hometheater, and this forum and are meant to provide comparative grounds. Having said that, if there is a number listed that is extremely different from your understanding, please let me know.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
  • I have a light controlled dedicated theater(flat black paint, and black velvet 8' out from the screen on the ceiling & walls). I have a 115", 1.0 gain elune vision reference screen. My throw distance is 17.5'. I always watch with the lights off.
  • My priorities are 2d picture quality, inky blacks, high on/off contrast, and low input lag. The reason for my upgrade at this point is because I was finding dark scenes to look washed out and lacking any punch on my Optoma HD8600. I'm sure I will miss the HD8600's punch on brighter scenes.
  • Viewing habits - Blu-rays (20%), HDTV (40%), HDTV Sports (20%), Gaming (20%).
  • I currently have no interest in 3d.

I'd appreciate any suggestions, opinions, additional information on the HC5, or alternate pj's to consider. Thanks, and thanks for all the information I have already received from many members here through PMs.

Elix's Avatar Elix 07:13 AM 04-04-2013
Hey, man, you practically stole my idea out of my head with this thread! I'm in the same exact position as you are now. Are you my double? biggrin.gif
Thinking of your setup, 2 PJ solution sounds good. You get bright and contrasty 2D with JVC and bright/crosstalk-free 3D with BenQ. With the screen of yours, 3D on HC5 is out, I think. I wonder myself if 40 ms is that much worse than 30 ms on Sony. Though by some reports Sony in gaming mode has 22 ms.
Overall I think Sony HW50 is the most universal projector right now. Somehow I'm reluctant to buy JVC because of some problems which are talked about on this forum (optical block fault/magenta stripes, lamp flickering, color tracking problems). Also JVC has such big input lag (70-80 ms) which makes it unusable for gaming and general computer work.
HC5 is still a dark horse among projectors. What attracts me in it more than HW50 are 2 things: higher native contrast (almost as good as lower end JVC) and better lens (Sony has plastic lens and some focus uniformity issues). It might be a plus to me since I'm sitting close to the screen. But for you, since you're closing further from the screen and it's also considerably larger, Sony might be a better candidate. But I think Sony HW50 is so popular for a reason... Color is beautiful on HW50. But it seems HC5 is no slouch here either anymore: CMS on HC5 is finally working.
Joesyah's Avatar Joesyah 08:48 AM 04-04-2013
I've been communicating with a member who has owned the hw50, JVC rs45 and just got his HC 5. Hopefully he will comment on your question.
jimmy12's Avatar jimmy12 09:02 AM 04-04-2013
I agree, the Sony sounds like the most versatile unit this year and I'd probably love it. My concerns with it as I mentioned are of course the initial cost. With 4k likely to slowly start trickling down to an attainable level by the time I'd be ready to sell the sony, I'm guessing my resale value on the sony would be very low and my cost per entertainment hour would skyrocket! As well, contrast without the iris... I've never seen a good iris like the Sony's in action, but based on what I have seen there are definite limits to what the iris can do and I typically just have left any irises on my former pjs off. I'd hate to have to do the same with the sony and be left with a black floor and contrast not much better than my optoma was.

If only the HC5 wasn't such an unknown at this point! I'd even appreciate an Art review so I can read through the entire section on black levels and not have a clue at the end of it whether the pj is any good at black levels or not (I'm kidding).
jimmy12's Avatar jimmy12 09:02 AM 04-04-2013
Joesyah... very much looking forward to that feedback, thanks.
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 10:50 AM 04-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Somehow I'm reluctant to buy JVC because of some problems which are talked about on this forum (optical block fault/magenta stripes, lamp flickering, color tracking problems). Also JVC has such big input lag (70-80 ms) which makes it unusable for gaming and general computer work.

The Optical block issues have not appeared on the RS-40 or later models AFIK, only earlier ones thus far (at least to any worrisome volume). The RS-45 lamps have not been a problem this year really, yah some series 2 lamps have been dimming too much, but there have been almost NO reports of premature bulb failures with the RS-45 or later (a couple), far less than say the older Epsons. I have 1,200 hours on my series 2 lamp with no flicker ever, but it is getting DIM (luckily for now my 106" HP screen is saving the day).

The JVC certainly isn't unuseable for general computer work or single player gaming, I mean it's fine for computer work. For some single player games, that lag will hurt of course. Though I'm not a huge gamer, so I'm sure some would find more. For FPS games, yah well it's a problem smile.gif

The best matchup of the ones spoken about here if going 2 projectors is the Benq w1070 and RS-45/46 or Mits hc 5 (don't know enough about it)...

The Optics on my JVC RS-45 are nothing short of amazing, I did get an exceptionally well converged unit though. I've now owned the Benq w7000 for a few months and the RS-45 for over a year, and after using both with HTPC text, I can confidently say the JVC pleases me more on the HTPC text than the Benq DLP. The Benq text has a tiny bit of unnatural look and edginess (almost ringing), the JVC text looks just as sharp usually but without that unnatural edginess. It is also easier on the eyes. That said, to get the JVC as sharp requires a well converged unit and correct placement, as well as proper room temperature (in a really cold room I had some issues). I have seen some w6000's as well, and I know my w7000 is a good sample.

The JVC does not have the most accurate color, that's for sure, but it's a lot better than most of the projectors in the past. It is really just under certain lighting conditions in movies that you see the skin tone color issues. It is a major pain to calibrate though, especially without a Lumagen.
Joesyah's Avatar Joesyah 02:19 PM 04-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12 View Post

I agree, the Sony sounds like the most versatile unit this year and I'd probably love it. My concerns with it as I mentioned are of course the initial cost. With 4k likely to slowly start trickling down to an attainable level by the time I'd be ready to sell the sony, I'm guessing my resale value on the sony would be very low and my cost per entertainment hour would skyrocket! As well, contrast without the iris... I've never seen a good iris like the Sony's in action, but based on what I have seen there are definite limits to what the iris can do and I typically just have left any irises on my former pjs off. I'd hate to have to do the same with the sony and be left with a black floor and contrast not much better than my optoma was.

If only the HC5 wasn't such an unknown at this point! I'd even appreciate an Art review so I can read through the entire section on black levels and not have a clue at the end of it whether the pj is any good at black levels or not (I'm kidding).

Look closely at the brochure, you'll notice the HC5 brochure has the HC9000 print left in certain places. http://www.mitsubishielectric.com.au/assets/vis/HC5_brochure.pdf
I've read only 5000 of the HC5's will be made, it is a limited production. The member I communicated with did say the HC5 looks identical to the HC9000. Everything points to this being the same projector with some updates.

If that's the case, for what the HC5 cost they are a steal! Less than two years ago people were paying 6k for these projectors.

Edit, apparently Mitsubishi realized they hadn't taken out the HC9000 print. They've changed it in the last couple of days.
It still showed HC9000 in certain areas just a few days ago.

I should have saved an image of the original. It clearly stated HC9000 in one of the banners...too funny!
jimmy12's Avatar jimmy12 10:16 PM 04-04-2013
Mitsubishi may need to beef up their publication review efforts, but I dont think that just because they reused the same template ad and had a few oversights during the review process that it means the hc5 and hc9000 are the same. Id like to see some measurements to be sure! Having said that, from the few hc5 owners on here, it certainly sounds like a great unit regardless if its a repackaged hc9000 or not.
Joesyah's Avatar Joesyah 03:00 AM 04-05-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12 View Post

Mitsubishi may need to beef up their publication review efforts, but I dont think that just because they reused the same template ad and had a few oversights during the review process that it means the hc5 and hc9000 are the same. Id like to see some measurements to be sure! Having said that, from the few hc5 owners on here, it certainly sounds like a great unit regardless if its a repackaged hc9000 or not.

I agree, It would be nice if someone reviewed it and did the measurements. Being this is such a small market. It would be difficult for me to believe this wasn't the same unit. The only print that I could find different, is the 150,000:1 contrast compared to 140,000:1 spec. That looks more like a stroke of the keyboard than a real change. There are only some many internal components that can fit this chassis. It wouldn't make sense to completely re-engineer a product with such a limited supply. As far as I know there are only two companies making LCOS panels. That would be Sony and JVC. Chances are these are Sony's LCOS panels, just like the last model, possibly the newer panels.The lamp replacement is identical. From the advertisements, Mitsubishi didn't intend to sale this projector in the US at the beginning. My guess is they had a surplus of parts and because of this, they can offer the HC5 for much less than the initial HC9000 release.

All of this is speculation, but it sure smells like the HC9000 revamped too me. Right now it or the VW95 would be my top picks if looking for a high native contrast 2D projector other than JVC. Still on the fence of buying one myself. If I sell my JVC, the Mits HC5 will be my next projector.
jimmy12's Avatar jimmy12 11:44 AM 04-05-2013
I did not notice the contrast spec change to 140,000:1... the manufacturer contrast numbers are dart board type random numbers it often seems (eg. PTAE8000 contrast = 500,000:1???), but the fact that the number dropped from the hc9000 to the hc5 seems somewhat telling of a slight reduction in contrast at least. Most manufacturers seem to have no issue with wildly raising their contrast specs as newer iterations of their units are released, but rarely would you see a contrast number drop. Oh well, I'm thinking the mystery of the HC5 may be one that remains unsolved. Given the fact that the hc5s are in short supply and actually completely discontinued in Canada now as I just recently found out, I'm thinking any warranty work would just be a hassle (unless they can find a few more parts just laying around from 9000s that they didn't use to make HC5s!).

The VW95 does look like a nice unit. Hopefully there will be a few more of these hitting the used market when its replacement is released. Other than the price, the issue for me with the 95 would be the brightness given that I'm at max throw (17.5' for a 115" screen).

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking the 2pj solution is sounding good. Or maybe I'll just grab an 8350 or something to get me through until new pj season in the fall. PJ obsessing is just too much fun, isn't it?
Elix's Avatar Elix 01:03 AM 04-08-2013
If anyone's interested I pulled the trigger on Mitsubishi HC5. I hope Joesyah wouldn't mind if I post jslaw81's comment on HC5:

"Ok. So now that I've had the hc5 for a couple days and have tweaked the settings here is what I think. I think the hc5 is the best overall projector I'vehad. Im using it with a darbee darblet. The hc5 is very sharp. Has an excellent lens. The sony lens was very poor. Had uneven brightness. Motion handling is superb on the hc5. The sony had good motion, jvc was so so. The hc5 bests them both. Black levels are great. I'd say the blacks are pretty much equal betwren all three. To sum it up I love the hc5. After I sold the jvc and bought the 50es I was constantly thinking of jvc alternatives or a 95es. The hc5 has stopped any thoughts of other projectors."

I just felt HC5 represented a better value, being 1000$ cheaper while having a higher end base (Sony VW90) with all of its consequences: higher contrast, better lens etc. Of course it's also less universal than Sony (having 42 ms lag vs. 22 ms lag on Sony, and 1370 max lumens vs. 1700 max lumens on Sony, more cross-talk). I don't like artificial sharpening thing and I'd be sitting pretty close to the screen so Reality Creation is still more a gimmick to me than a real useful feature. I also ordered Monstervision 3D Max kit with 4 pairs of RF glasses.
steak2's Avatar steak2 05:19 AM 04-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

If anyone's interested I pulled the trigger on Mitsubishi HC5. I hope Joesyah wouldn't mind if I post jslaw81's comment on HC5:

"Ok. So now that I've had the hc5 for a couple days and have tweaked the settings here is what I think. I think the hc5 is the best overall projector I'vehad. Im using it with a darbee darblet. The hc5 is very sharp. Has an excellent lens. The sony lens was very poor. Had uneven brightness. Motion handling is superb on the hc5. The sony had good motion, jvc was so so. The hc5 bests them both. Black levels are great. I'd say the blacks are pretty much equal betwren all three. To sum it up I love the hc5. After I sold the jvc and bought the 50es I was constantly thinking of jvc alternatives or a 95es. The hc5 has stopped any thoughts of other projectors."

I just felt HC5 represented a better value, being 1000$ cheaper while having a higher end base (Sony VW90) with all of its consequences: higher contrast, better lens etc. Of course it's also less universal than Sony (having 42 ms lag vs. 22 ms lag on Sony, and 1370 max lumens vs. 1700 max lumens on Sony, more cross-talk). I don't like artificial sharpening thing and I'd be sitting pretty close to the screen so Reality Creation is still more a gimmick to me than a real useful feature. I also ordered Monstervision 3D Max kit with 4 pairs of RF glasses.

Hi, it would be very nice to hear if the monstervision set has any advantages in terms of 3D brightnes and/or crosstalk over the emitter provided by mits. I am considering either the monstervision (since you can adjust timings) or the trude emitter which is coming with optimised timings for 24p.
Elix's Avatar Elix 06:49 AM 04-08-2013
Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to do any comparison because I won't have stock IR emitter and glasses. I had the same choice - Trude IR 3D or Monstervision 3D MAX - but decided to choose the latter because it's RF. Reviews for both state the increase in brightness and decrease in cross-talk compared to stock emitter & glasses. We wouldn't be able to find out which one is better before somebody buys both to compare.
timescape7's Avatar timescape7 07:51 AM 04-08-2013
You mentioned gaming contrast. However you also need to consider best gaming response time. It's quite apparent that Sony is ahead of the game this year...especially the reality creation implementation. I'll go for Sony if my budget allow.
Elix's Avatar Elix 08:08 AM 04-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by timescape7 View Post

You mentioned gaming contrast.
Where? Quote me, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timescape7 View Post

gaming response time.
Do you mean input lag or pixel response time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by timescape7 View Post

It's quite apparent that Sony is ahead of the game this year...
Not to me. And not to jslaw81 whose quote I posted above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timescape7 View Post

especially the reality creation implementation.
It's a nice feature but not without its limitations... I wouldn't put it higher than native contrast and native sharpness.
steak2's Avatar steak2 08:17 AM 04-08-2013
I am also considering monstervision because it is RF - a decision yet to be made.

With regards to the Sony and RC I can only say: Sharp lens > RC. wink.gif
Tags: Jvc Dla Rs45 Home Theater Projector 1080p Hdmi , Optoma Hd8600 50 000 Contrast Ratio Hdmi , Sony
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