Sony 1000ES versus JVC HD950 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 04-20-2013, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I started my theater room in early 2009 with the JVC DLA-RS1 projector, as at the time it was rated the highest quality by several reviewers.

In early 2011 I upgraded to the JVC DLA-HD950; and I have to admit the difference was subtle. I convinced myself it was better (probably to justify the cost) but in reality it wasn't noticeable by anyone else and hardly by me, if I'm honest. I even paid to have it calibrated by Jeff and while that made a difference in picture quality, it still didn't put the projector in a different level, in my opinion.

This past week I upgraded to the Sony 1000ES. I had seen it in person at my local dealer but since I couldn't see it on my screen/in my theater I wasn't sure if it would provide a noticeable difference.

I just want to let others know that it is a different league entirely. Incredible clarity, depth, and brightness. Best upgrade of technology I have ever made!

For anyone else who currently owns a JVC DLA series projector, I really do recommend the upgrade to the Sony if it fits in your budget.
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post #2 of 24 Old 04-21-2013, 02:03 PM
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Well, we all have our subjective opinion.

I've gone thru a series of upgrade in both the Sony and the JVC LCoS lines, so I'm familiar with all of them, RS1 to RS20, HW10 to VW85 (my current model).

The black/contrast was better from RS2 to RS1. When I moved up to the RS20 w/ CMS, both the colors and the black were very noticeable. Since the RS25/HD950 is yet another upgrade, I'm surprise that you did not feel it was at a "different level".

Again, from the Sony's perspective, I could tell the black in the VW85 was better than the HW20, though the latter was brighter. Was it dramatic? No. But I'm sure comparing to the HW10, the VW85 is at a different level. Sharpness is also very noticeable with the VW85, during the opening and closing credits.

From what I read about the VW1000 (my wife would be really pissed, like buying a Porsche), I cannot justify the cost, nor have the need for 3D. However, my next upgrade would probably another JVC 3D model, just because JVC and Sony stop making 2D alone projectors.

Enjoy your new toy.

Cheers.
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post #3 of 24 Old 04-21-2013, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejofgb View Post

I started my theater room in early 2009 with the JVC DLA-RS1 projector, as at the time it was rated the highest quality by several reviewers.

In early 2011 I upgraded to the JVC DLA-HD950; and I have to admit the difference was subtle. I convinced myself it was better (probably to justify the cost) but in reality it wasn't noticeable by anyone else and hardly by me, if I'm honest. I even paid to have it calibrated by Jeff and while that made a difference in picture quality, it still didn't put the projector in a different level, in my opinion.

This past week I upgraded to the Sony 1000ES. I had seen it in person at my local dealer but since I couldn't see it on my screen/in my theater I wasn't sure if it would provide a noticeable difference.

I just want to let others know that it is a different league entirely. Incredible clarity, depth, and brightness. Best upgrade of technology I have ever made!

For anyone else who currently owns a JVC DLA series projector, I really do recommend the upgrade to the Sony if it fits in your budget.

I agree. I've owned a few JVC models over several years. Starting from the RS10. My most recent upgrade was the Sony VW1000 in Feb of last year. It is indeed in another league. You will need to spend twice the price to get better.

Couldn't be happier with the purchase.

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post #4 of 24 Old 04-21-2013, 02:46 PM
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You will need to spend twice the price to get better.
Is there 'better'?
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post #5 of 24 Old 04-21-2013, 03:00 PM
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Is there 'better'?


Well.. that will depend. Some prefer the Sim2, some prefer the Sony. My point is, if you prefer the Sim2 Lumis, it's ~$50k

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post #6 of 24 Old 04-21-2013, 06:10 PM
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I am in the process of an install for a customer. One room gets the Sony and the other, the bigger screen, gets the Sim2 Solo 3D. He doesn't have a budget. Its the story about someone giving you an unlimited budget and then you exceed it.
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post #7 of 24 Old 04-21-2013, 07:23 PM
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I just purchased the 1000.................feel very confident in the purchase.

After many demos, IMHO, the Lumis was my favorite projector, yet double the price of the 1000.
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post #8 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post


I agree. I've owned a few JVC models over several years. Starting from the RS10. My most recent upgrade was the Sony VW1000 in Feb of last year. It is indeed in another league. You will need to spend twice the price to get better.

Couldn't be happier with the purchase.

I'm going to go out on limb here and assume that owners of the JVC's chose those at least in part on the 'black' level these are especially noted for.  When someone who has had JVC and higher end 2K Sony's and then says they prefer the 4K 1000 or Sim2, since black levels on these two are not as black as in the jvc/2k sony, I assume that due to clarity ( sharpness?), brightness, etc these 2 pj have , that black level becomes less important in producing the more engaging image?

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post #9 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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The clarity, sharpness, and overall brightness generates a much higher picture quality than the JVC, even if black levels aren't the same. Its not even close and this is based on me watching a few of my favorite blu-rays that I have seen several times. The Sony is truly stunning; the JVC was very good but not in the same league.
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post #10 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 01:29 PM
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I would agree. this is not to say the JVC isn't a very fine projector, its just that the sony is indeed in another league as it ought to be considering the price difference.

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post #11 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejofgb View Post

The clarity, sharpness, and overall brightness generates a much higher picture quality than the JVC, even if black levels aren't the same. Its not even close and this is based on me watching a few of my favorite blu-rays that I have seen several times. The Sony is truly stunning; the JVC was very good but not in the same league.

How's the VW95 compared to the 1000es ?
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post #12 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 03:04 PM
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The 950 was a mid-range model from 3 generations ago, I would hope the 25K projector looks better. cool.gif

The 3K HW50 has the same 3D lumens as the VW1000, this is the 1 thing that needs to change on this model. Hopefully the next version or 1000 'mini' has the lamp pulsing technology built in.
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post #13 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 06:59 PM
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It's interesting, given comments like we find in this thread, that the UK site, AV Forum, did not find the Sony 1000 to be in a different league vs the JVCs. In fact, after a fully calibrated comparison, they gave the Sony many plaudits but stated the JVC still remained their reference for 2D picture quality.
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post #14 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

It's interesting, given comments like we find in this thread, that the UK site, AV Forum, did not find the Sony 1000 to be in a different league vs the JVCs. In fact, after a fully calibrated comparison, they gave the Sony many plaudits but stated the JVC still remained their reference for 2D picture quality.

Not to put down AVForums, but the editors and reviewers there have an even larger hard-on for JVC projectors then users here do...if that's even possible.

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post #15 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

It's interesting, given comments like we find in this thread, that the UK site, AV Forum, did not find the Sony 1000 to be in a different league vs the JVCs. In fact, after a fully calibrated comparison, they gave the Sony many plaudits but stated the JVC still remained their reference for 2D picture quality.
I didn't think the Sony was in another league than the RS55 when I saw the Sony a little over a year ago. The Sony was better and you can do more with the Sony because of the brightest of the Sony. But I didn't go out and buy the Sony afterwards because I thought the jvc was good enough.
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post #16 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 07:55 PM
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I didn't think the Sony was in another league than the RS55 when I saw the Sony a little over a year ago. The Sony was better and you can do more with the Sony because of the brightest of the Sony. But I didn't go out and buy the Sony afterwards because I thought the jvc was good enough.

I feel like projectors need more than a few short demo's to fully appreciate what each one is all about, especially the more expensive ones. I'm sure at first there isn't much of a huge "Wow, look at the difference" initial reaction. It's something that becomes apparent over many hours of use and after see a multitude of content on each one. My first reaction to a really good DLP was that way. After owning a JVC RS20 for about 6 months and switching to the DLP didn't make me go nuts at first. It took about 2 months to realize what I was missing out on. I'm sure the experience with the Sony 1000ES is very similar.

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post #17 of 24 Old 04-22-2013, 08:32 PM
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I feel like projectors need more than a few short demo's to fully appreciate what each one is all about, especially the more expensive ones. I'm sure at first there isn't much of a huge "Wow, look at the difference" initial reaction. It's something that becomes apparent over many hours of use and after see a multitude of content on each one. My first reaction to a really good DLP was that way. After owning a JVC RS20 for about 6 months and switching to the DLP didn't make me go nuts at first. It took about 2 months to realize what I was missing out on. I'm sure the experience with the Sony 1000ES is very similar.
I think I got a good sense of it. As much as a watch different things, its not hard to notice how something looks. I just don't get caught up with what everyone says about something. Yes, it was a better projector, but not that much that I couldn't enjoy my jvc afterwards. When i move this summer and get a theater room with a bigger unity screen, I might just get the Sony unless there is something similar for less
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post #18 of 24 Old 04-23-2013, 02:12 AM
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I'm going to go out on limb here and assume that owners of the JVC's chose those at least in part on the 'black' level these are especially noted for. 

Price...


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post #19 of 24 Old 04-23-2013, 02:28 AM
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Not to put down AVForums, but the editors and reviewers there have an even larger hard-on for JVC projectors then users here do...if that's even possible.
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post #20 of 24 Old 04-23-2013, 02:45 AM
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I think even the RS-66 and the vw1000 are in a totally different price range, so that's the reason you see more people with JVC's, the fact is most just do not want to lay out the cash for this PJ. It has little to do with people being JVC fans. That said, in the under $10,000 price range, the JVC's tend to be the sharpest (excluding some DLP's) and have the best contrast, two attributes videophiles adore greatly. Though a well-converged vw95es which is a more valid comparison to the RS-56/Rs-66 than the Sony vw1000, well this vw95 Sony gets closer to the JVC in sharpness, but it still doesn't quit match it exactly from what I have heard (if both are near-perfectly converged).

No doubt the vw1000 is in a category of its own due to native 4k and a sharper image, competitive black levels, and superior best mode brightness. These are things the JVC does not have, direct PQ A/B comparisons aside. I mean take the JVC RS-66, you aren't going to be getting much better contrast (if at all) on a decently sized screen or with low gain as compared to the SONY, or at least not for very long. The high-end JVC's of this year do not have the brightness needed to do so without some significant gain, and the Sony has enough to be at max contrast in a given configuration with little to no gain, whereas the JVC will require opening the aperture and losing that native on/off.

So for those without HP screens, there isn't really a contrast benefit to the highest-end JVC's anyways over this Sony, and with the vw1000 you get all the other pluses (native 4k, brighter, etc...).


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post #21 of 24 Old 04-23-2013, 04:14 AM
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I think even the RS-66 and the vw1000 are in a totally different price range, so that's the reason you see more people with JVC's, the fact is most just do not want to lay out the cash for this PJ. It has little to do with people being JVC fans. That said, in the under $10,000 price range, the JVC's tend to be the sharpest (excluding some DLP's) and have the best contrast, two attributes videophiles adore greatly. Though a well-converged vw95es which is a more valid comparison to the RS-56/Rs-66 than the Sony vw1000, well this vw95 Sony gets closer to the JVC in sharpness, but it still doesn't quit match it exactly from what I have heard (if both are near-perfectly converged).

No doubt the vw1000 is in a category of its own due to native 4k and a sharper image, competitive black levels, and superior best mode brightness. These are things the JVC does not have, direct PQ A/B comparisons aside. I mean take the JVC RS-66, you aren't going to be getting much better contrast (if at all) on a decently sized screen or with low gain as compared to the SONY, or at least not for very long. The high-end JVC's of this year do not have the brightness needed to do so without some significant gain, and the Sony has enough to be at max contrast in a given configuration with little to no gain, whereas the JVC will require opening the aperture and losing that native on/off.

So for those without HP screens, there isn't really a contrast benefit to the highest-end JVC's anyways over this Sony, and with the vw1000 you get all the other pluses (native 4k, brighter, etc...).

I totally agree with you. Occasionally a manufacturer achieves a monumental leap forwards in output for the money that it totally destroys the competition. JVC achieved this back in the days of the RS-1. It caught all other projector manufacturers off guard achieving revolutionary contrast ratios for the price point at the time. It gave them a very prominent place in the home enthusiast market for several years before other manufacturers started to catch up and even today, nobody can replicate JVC's native contrast ratios (assuming JVC have well patented whatever they are doing). A similar leap took place by Pioneer several years ago with their plasmas achieving an unheard of black level and colour fidelity that even today Panasonic have struggled to repeat (and unfortunately have now given up on plasma too). These jumps are rare and getting rarer as the money on R&D tech companies can make has reduced. The Sony is not one of these giant leaps that changes the landscape. It came out at a premium price well above any typically comparative HD competition. It is revolutionary in being the first 4K, but if it was to be a repeat of JVC with the RS-1, it would have needed to be less than half its launch price!

While it is perfectly fair to compare a VW1000 with a JVC, to ensure the Sony is delivering on its promise. It is absolutely unfair to compare a projector costing twice as much in terms of comments like "destroying the competition" BECAUSE it has new features over a cheaper one that never intends to deliver the same. If money is no object then of course we would all probably go out and get SIMs or a Sony 1000ES. But the Sony is a premium priced projector because its the first widely available (for consumers) 4K projector. If I could afford one, I would have one myself! I think it is reasonably well established that if you could afford the Sony it is one of the finest consumer projectors on the market today. I hope Sony do not let its customers down by finding out that "something" in their design prevents the implementation of HDMI 2.0 with it etc. I always felt there was a slight gamble there because nobody can entirely predict the future, but it is looking like they will be good right now.
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post #22 of 24 Old 04-23-2013, 07:21 AM
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I totally agree with you. Occasionally a manufacturer achieves a monumental leap forwards in output for the money that it totally destroys the competition. JVC achieved this back in the days of the RS-1. It caught all other projector manufacturers off guard achieving revolutionary contrast ratios for the price point at the time. It gave them a very prominent place in the home enthusiast market for several years before other manufacturers started to catch up and even today, nobody can replicate JVC's native contrast ratios (assuming JVC have well patented whatever they are doing). A similar leap took place by Pioneer several years ago with their plasmas achieving an unheard of black level and colour fidelity that even today Panasonic have struggled to repeat (and unfortunately have now given up on plasma too). These jumps are rare and getting rarer as the money on R&D tech companies can make has reduced. The Sony is not one of these giant leaps that changes the landscape. It came out at a premium price well above any typically comparative HD competition. It is revolutionary in being the first 4K, but if it was to be a repeat of JVC with the RS-1, it would have needed to be less than half its launch price!

While it is perfectly fair to compare a VW1000 with a JVC, to ensure the Sony is delivering on its promise. It is absolutely unfair to compare a projector costing twice as much in terms of comments like "destroying the competition" BECAUSE it has new features over a cheaper one that never intends to deliver the same. If money is no object then of course we would all probably go out and get SIMs or a Sony 1000ES. But the Sony is a premium priced projector because its the first widely available (for consumers) 4K projector. If I could afford one, I would have one myself! I think it is reasonably well established that if you could afford the Sony it is one of the finest consumer projectors on the market today. I hope Sony do not let its customers down by finding out that "something" in their design prevents the implementation of HDMI 2.0 with it etc. I always felt there was a slight gamble there because nobody can entirely predict the future, but it is looking like they will be good right now.

This is what scares me about the VW1000, if i KNEW for sure that it would be compatible with 4K 60p (gaming and sports), then i would buy one. that is the main thing holding me back
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post #23 of 24 Old 04-23-2013, 08:13 AM
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This is what scares me about the VW1000, if i KNEW for sure that it would be compatible with 4K 60p (gaming and sports), then i would buy one. that is the main thing holding me back

I am in the same situation.. moreover and most of all I hope for a laser source...
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post #24 of 24 Old 04-23-2013, 11:07 AM
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Once the new HDMI standard comes and chips become available for the new standard, the Sony with a new input board and some memory programing for 48 and 60 will easily be able to handle it. There is nothing in the circuits to prevent it as far as I know. On the other hand using the method in the HW50 to increase 3D brightness from the bulb would require a lot of redesign given the bulb and the power supply. I don't think that will happen.

It should be noted that the people at Sony who made the upgrade statements when the 1000ES came out are gone from Sony and who knows what the new people will do. To the best of my knowledge (and I may be wrong here), the .ES product manager in the US who left voluntarily to take another job has not as yet been replaced.

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