Hw50es vs w1070 vs ae4000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys I'm wonding how you guys would compare these thee projectors, I have the w1070 and its good for the price but after watching my vt50 in the other room I find it hard to watch the w1070(black level addict). It's me and my wife's 8 year today and she told me I could return the w1070 and get any projector I want with in reason of course. I'm thinking of the sony because of its all around good performing good blacks low input lag and plenty bright. I also could get an ae4000 that's used but when I say it I was not very impressed but the setup it was in was terrible with white walls and ceiling. Ive been researching like crazy on forms reviews ect but any input would be alot of help. I have a fully light controlled room. Thanks
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post #2 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 10:49 AM
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Time to spring of the defense of the Panny!(seeing as JVC' s normally get most of the praise )

I have a Panasonic ae2000(the precursor by 2 models to the ae4000)

I also have the Sony 4K 1000es(the big brother to the HW50es)

So whilst I cant make a direct comparison between the aformentioned models you have quoted.....I can still make a general analysis between the 2 brands.

Obviously I wont bother to sing the praises of the Sony 4K(that has been done enough).....others have compared the 4k to the 50es and have come to the conclusion that the 50es holds it's own to it's big bro.

If you are into your black levels then the Panny wont be your cup of Tea BUT black levels are not the be all and end all.

If anything the Panny mimicks the the type of Black levels(or lack of) that you see in the cinema.

The Panny has excellent colour gradation and 0 pixels structure thanks to the smooth screen tech.
Now the smooth screen filter does offer the perception of a softer image but in my opinion it "neutralizes" excessive grain structure on older film material(effectively offering the equivalent of a good 4th generation 35mm release print).

The Sony 4K(and presumably the 50es to a lesser degree) actually excacerbate this type of material(heavy grain) due to their intinsic sharpness.

And the colour gradation on the Panny rivals or even exceeds the Sony 4K

I am assuming the Ae4000 will do the same to the 50ES

I dont game so cant comment on input lags.

Obviously the Panny cant do 3D.

So there are always trade offs but Panasonic is often underrated(unfairly in my opinion)

So I personally would go for the 4000 over the 50Es
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post #3 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, the guy wants 1400 canadian for the ae4000 it's got 170hours on the second bulb and it looked to be in good shape and no problems. I may have seen a little dust blob but from what I've read it's not to hard to open it up and clean out, I've done it befor on my old panny. One thing I did notice was I could see brightness changes from the iris when changing some scenes and I hear the sony is not noticeable at all.
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post #4 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 11:07 AM
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This is silly, the ae4000 is not in the same league as the Sony in contrast, color accuracy, brightness, processing, or pixel fill. The Sony not only is nearly 3x brighter in its BEST MODE over the ae4000, it also has 3D, much better Native On/Off, and far far more accurate color.

If what the other poster said was true, we mise well say my Sanyo z5 beats my JVC RS-45, since the Sanyo in a very poor grainy source hides more noise. The reason you see projectors hiding noise is a lack of sharpness, that's not a reason though to go backwards and pick an inferior projector. If you want a projector that hides noise, go buy an old 720p projector or something.

That said, the Panny is far far cheaper, but it much much dimmer too. The Panny is the inferior PJ in this battle, ask 50 experts and hopefully 45 to 49 out of 50 would agree, the other 1-5 are senile smile.gif


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post #5 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

This is silly, the ae4000 is not in the same league as the Sony in contrast, color accuracy, brightness...

That applies to the new 8000 as well. weak color uniformity, poor color performance out of the box, black level looks several notches higher than the HW50. I did a direct A/B comparison for days between the 8000 and HW50. The Panasonic was a dead last pick for me this year out of all the projectors in the shootout for overall PQ.

adamd - if you can spring for the HW50, you're going to see a noticeable difference in black levels vs. the 1070 and any of the Panasonics.

have you considered the JVC RS46? the black levels are top shelf at this price point and the overall PQ is excellent. It's cheaper than the HW50 and also has good out of the box color.
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post #6 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I was considering the jvc but the jvc had bad input lag from the reviews I've read. If it was not for that I would have gave the jvc a try for sure. One thing I like about the sony is the control of the iris to control light. My projector is 10 feet from a 92 inch 1.2 gain screen and I don't like a overly bright picture for movie watching in my light controlled room.
Thanks again for the input.


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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

That applies to the new 8000 as well. weak color uniformity, poor color performance out of the box, black level looks several notches higher than the HW50. I did a direct A/B comparison for days between the 8000 and HW50. The Panasonic was a dead last pick for me this year out of all the projectors in the shootout for overall PQ.

adamd - if you can spring for the HW50, you're going to see a noticeable difference in black levels vs. the 1070 and any of the Panasonics.

have you considered the JVC RS46? the black levels are top shelf at this price point and the overall PQ is excellent. It's cheaper than the HW50 and also has good out of the box color.
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post #7 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Adamd View Post

Yes I was considering the jvc but the jvc had bad input lag from the reviews I've read. If it was not for that I would have gave the jvc a try for sure. One thing I like about the sony is the control of the iris to control light. My projector is 10 feet from a 92 inch 1.2 gain screen and I don't like a overly bright picture for movie watching in my light controlled room.
Thanks again for the input.

For gaming lag time, the HW50 makes the most sense. I measured it at ~30ms which is quite good. For the iris, you can run 'auto-iris limited' which clamps the iris down to reduce the peak brightness and it still maintains the full DI.

sounds like this is the projector you are looking for. Go for it, you only live once. biggrin.gif
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post #8 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 01:19 PM
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This is such an odd comparison to be asking about. Not only are these three different projectors using different display technologies, but each one dominates a totally different price bracket. Those two things alone make it difficult to compare. You typically want to compare two or three models that offer roughly the same feature set, build quality, picture quality, and value. You have none of that here between these models. The Sony is the clear winner here for 2D picture quality, especially if you want to game. The BenQ will do 3D the cleanest but the Sony does a fair job overall and the Panasonic doesn't offer it at all. If these are the only three you were interested in, go with the Sony for sure.
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post #9 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Well it looks like the sony is the winner, I got a call today from the sony store saying that can special order it. Thanks for talking myself into spending 4.5k.
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post #10 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post

Well it looks like the sony is the winner, I got a call today from the sony store saying that can special order it. Thanks for talking myself into spending 4.5k.

wow, that's quite a bit more than the price in the US. Aren't there any dealers in Canada offering it at a discount? send a PM to Conan48 to ask where he got his from.
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post #11 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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From the sony store they want 3999 and they would not move on the price unless I found a better one in canada but I have not found any yet.
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wow, that's quite a bit more than the price in the US. Aren't there any dealers in Canada offering it at a discount? send a PM to Conan48 to ask where he got his from.
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post #12 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 02:49 PM
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I own both the AE4000 (highly tweaked to be about as good as this model can get) and the BenQ w1070, the Sony HW50 is over-all the better unit (it does not best the other two on every single aspect but definitely where it counts the most).

That said do not discount the ability of the AE4000, it throws one of the most cinematic images that you'll see from a unit at it's current price point, it also has roughly 30ms input lag for gaming (same as the HW50).

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post #13 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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How do the black levels compare from the two you have? I use the w1070 I. Economic with an nd2 filter.

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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I own both the AE4000 (highly tweaked to be about as good as this model can get) and the BenQ w1070, the Sony HW50 is over-all the better unit (it does not best the other two on every single aspect but definitely where it counts the most).

That said do not discount the ability of the AE4000, it throws one of the most cinematic images that you'll see from a unit at it's current price point, it also has roughly 30ms input lag for gaming (same as the HW50).

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post #14 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 05:52 PM
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Well the AE4000 has better BL but then it has an iris and the w1070 is 2x as bright. wink.gif

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post #15 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Well the AE4000 has better BL but then it has an iris and the w1070 is 2x as bright. wink.gif

Jason

It's actually 4x as bright in their respective "best" mode. 430 vs 1711 measured lumens.
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post #16 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

It's actually 4x as bright in their respective "best" mode. 430 vs 1711 measured lumens.

It's not...

Those measures are not truly accurate and it is debatable of which is the Panasonics 'best' mode. wink.gif

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post #17 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 07:28 PM
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Which review says it's brighter? I was going off of projectorreviews.com
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post #18 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 07:35 PM
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Re: AE4000... It's been discussed all over the place since it was released and I have both units here and can speak from first hand experience.

Unit to unit variances... I had over 600 lumen's on a new lamp in the claimed out of the box 'best mode' presets.

My AE4000 is also fully calibrated in Normal mode on Eco lamp and my w1070 is no where near 4x as bright (my light meter reads tell me it is a little over 2x brighter @ D65).

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post #19 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 07:42 PM
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The 1711 lumens is with brilliant color on. I think its like 1350 with BC off.
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post #20 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 08:49 PM
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I don't use BC and don't care for the image degradation that goes along with it but I calibrated a mode on the w1070 with it enabled for material where I might require maximum light output (which is still not 4x brighter than the Panasonics brightest modes that can come close to 1000 lumen's).

I own both projectors in question and I am not simply relying upon reading various review sites on the net.

Beyond that I am not sure what it is you are debating here or what point you are trying to make... confused.gif

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post #21 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I don't use BC and don't care for the image degradation that goes along with it but I calibrated a mode on the w1070 with it enabled for material where I might require maximum light output (which is still not 4x brighter than the Panasonics brightest modes that can come close to 1000 lumen's).

I own both projectors in question and I am not simply relying upon reading various review sites on the net.

Beyond that I am not sure what it is you are debating here or what point you are trying to make... confused.gif

Jason

I'm not arguing. I'm just saying that it has been reported to be much brighter. I'm talking specifically "best" mode to "best" the BenQ is substantially brighter.
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post #22 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 08:59 PM
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Yeah it's obviously much brighter, that's a given as even 2x as bright is fairly substantial (especially in a proper viewing environment).

I just don't consider a 'best' mode D65 calibration to include BC. wink.gif

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post #23 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 09:03 PM
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Yes, without BC, even if you manage close to 600 calibrated lumens on the Panasonic, which would be very difficult, the BenQ still has over 700 more lumens to play with. If he had an ND filter I think he could use it to get much better contrast and take it out of the light path when needed for use with 3D or a larger screen application.
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post #24 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, without BC, even if you manage close to 600 calibrated lumens on the Panasonic, which would be very difficult, the BenQ still has over 700 more lumens to play with. If he had an ND filter I think he could use it to get much better contrast and take it out of the light path when needed for use with 3D or a larger screen application.

I did use a nd2 with the w1070 and that did help. The w1070 has its good points great color,motion and very sharp but the rainbows drive me nuts. I must be very sensitive even with an nd2 and on economic I still see them a lot.
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I did use a nd2 with the w1070 and that did help. The w1070 has its good points great color,motion and very sharp but the rainbows drive me nuts. I must be very sensitive even with an nd2 and on economic I still see them a lot.

Did you try the 50Hz test for RBE?

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post #26 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you try the 50Hz test for RBE?

Jason

I was told sony blu ray players don't output 50hz. Is there a setting on the projector I can change?
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post #27 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 02:08 PM
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You would need the ability to send 50hz from the source. wink.gif

You should be able to try it from a pc.

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