Sharpest projector of all time ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I know its a DLP but which one?

W2000 ?
In83?
W7000?
W1200?

others?????

Am looking to buy a 1080p DLP projector for gaming and blueray and sharpness is the most important for me
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post #2 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 05:12 AM
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This projector is considered one of the sharpest projectors ever made. I cannot say it's true because I've never seen it (or the nearest competitors). Seegs will answer this one as he's seen many of the higher-end DLP projectors.
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post #3 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 06:30 AM
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I would agree. But such an assessment is subjective and sample to sample lens variation would affect things too.

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post #4 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 06:44 AM
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Difficult to say exactly which is the very sharpest but I would expect any of these would as good, if not very close to, the Samsung A900B:

Marantz 1080p projectors
Sim2 HT3000E, Nero models
Digital Projection's large DMD single chip models
ProjectionDesign's large DMD single chip models
I would expect Runco's X200i and VX3000 to be very good but there aren't any reviews or comparisons to go by. Certainly the X200i looked good at CEDIA last year.

I have read that the high end LED models aren't quite as sharp as the bulb based models although that could very much depend on which model/brand. The M150 looked very sharp when I saw it.
I have the IN83, in terms of sharpness it still compares very favourably to a lot of newer and more expensive models. However, Seegs informs me that in absolute sharpness, the Marantz's are better. He has owned just about every single chip DLP model out there so I would trust his verdict.
I would go with what Mark says as well, at a certain level it will probably depend more on the individual model than a brand per se.

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post #5 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 08:04 AM
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I had the Samsung A900B and maybe mine wasn't a good sample but I thought it was only decently sharp and not as sharp as the Marantz 1080p DLP's. I've owned 2 Marantz's and seen 2 other ones and they all were sharpness kings to my eyes.

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post #6 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 11:17 AM
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I haven't yet owned the SP-A900B, But I did have the Samsung SP-A800B (which is supposedly the same lens minus a few tweaks that were made for the SP-A900B ). I don't know about the "sharpest" looking picture but there was this clarity to the image that I've never seen before. The whole image had this effortless look to it that just screamed "I don't need a darblet" biggrin.gif

So yes, the optics in the Samsung models are the beset I've yet seen, followed by the Marantz VP11S1/2 and 15S1, Sharp XV-Z20000, and then the Planar PD8150. All of them look amazingly sharp. That is one thing I love about DLP projectors of this magnitude. The image looks so consistent because the pixels seem to flow into each other (ie lack of a pixel grid) while also resolving a lot more detail for your eyes to see. This extra sharpness can only really be appreciated if you're sitting at the recommended length away from the screen or closer. The JVC DLA-X3 I had looked very sharp for a three chip projector and with a lens that I'm sure doesn't meet the quality of the one's I've mentioned and yet if you sit far enough from the screen (maybe an extra 50% farther) DLP loses it's edge because your eyes simply can't tell a difference.

So, to the OP, your seating distance to the screen does matter. If you plan on sitting far enough back I wouldn't bother looking for "the sharpest" DLP model and go with another DLP model that has a feature you like. The reason I wasn't sure if the Samsung was the "sharpest looking" is because with real world content and me comparing off memory what others may have looked sharper is very hard. When I get a new projector I typically watch the same 10-12 clips on every projector that I get. This makes it easier for me to compare them because I've seen the clips so many times. When you've seen so many uber sharp DLPs it's hard to tell which one looks sharper with real content. I tend to tell myself that if it can resolve a single pixel better that it must look sharper with actual content. In this case, the Samsung models are the best. I'd only worry about getting the sharpest looking DLP mode if you plan on sitting particularly close. To be honest, every single .95" DLP DMD projector I've encountered has looked remarkably sharper than any .65" DLP, 3LCD, or LCOS projector I've had. You can't make a bad choice with the larger DLP chip.
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post #7 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post



Am looking to buy a 1080p DLP projector for gaming

you have to try to find lag times on these models being discussed, it's not something that was widely reported. it depends on how serious of a gamer you are.
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post #8 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 12:05 PM
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DLPs have a sort of fake digital sharpness to them that is caused by the pixel edges being always straight. LCD or reflective LCD has crystal edges thet are not always straight with the trailing edge exhibiting the most irregularity. So the pixels themselves will be sharper so to speak on a DLP chips compared to an LCD etc chip. Also in most DLPs and all the ones we asre talking about here only one chip ia used and unlike three chip machines there is no misconvergence to make things appear less sharp. No personally, I think it ids easier to see the grid on a DLP machine like the SP-A800 or 900 because the grid is sharplyu defined on the chip because of the pixel straight edges and the lenses being so could to clearly resolve the pixels,i

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post #9 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 12:12 PM
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Yes there is still a grid, but with DLP the pixels are sharpest at the center and softer at the edge which helps give it that consistent look I was talking about. IMO this makes something like skin look as real as you can get on a digital projector. I've always thought DLP has the most "natural" look to it and is the main reason I'm sure commercial theaters chose it to replace film. Though, you could argue that LCOS is starting to emerge more and more in the commercial cinema space. Though they look more like DLP than a home theater LCOS machine does.

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post #10 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 12:30 PM
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imo e-shift helps make skin look as real as possible on a digital projector.
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post #11 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

So the pixels themselves will be sharper so to speal om a DLP chips compared to an LCD etc chip. Also in most DLPs and all the ones we asre talking about here only one chip ia used and unlike three chip machines there is no misconvergence to make things appear less sharp. No personally, I think it ids easier to see the grid on a DLP machine like the SP-A800 or 900 because the grid is sharplyu defined on the chip because of the pixel straight edges and the lenses being so could to clearly resolve the pixels,i
It seems you struggled writing this post biggrin.gif But I agree with the idea. For the topic starter if he haven't already seen this article: http://www.videovantage.com/?p=819
Also there were reports that LCD may actually seem sharper from the distance than 2 other technologies. My theory is that since it has lesser pixel fill of the bunch (around 50%?) our brain actually reconstructs the image beginning from a certain distance, filling in the information in between pixel gaps. As there are much less gaps between pixels on DLP or LCoS there is much less for the brain left to do. That's why LCD image may appear sharper sometimes. A wild idea but why not? Don't black frames help in making 24 frames motion appear fluid? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1aMD6dI-rc
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post #12 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

imo e-shift helps make skin look as real as possible on a digital projector.

I'd have to see this for myself. But like I said, the pixels themselves are different on each display technology which is why I think DLP has the advantage here.

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post #13 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post


For the topic starter if he haven't already seen this article: http://www.videovantage.com/?p=819
Also there were reports that LCD may actually seem sharper from the distance than 2 other technologies. My theory is that since it has lesser pixel fill of the bunch (around 50%?) our brain actually reconstructs the image beginning from a certain distance, filling in the information in between pixel gaps. As there are much less gaps between pixels on DLP or LCoS there is much less for the brain left to do. That's why LCD image may appear sharper sometimes. A wild idea but why not? Don't black frames help in making 24 frames motion appear fluid? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1aMD6dI-rc

That's an old article, but one that's been discussed in many conversations on this topic. I'd like to see it updated with the current gen models which appear to have a higher MTF than the previous RS35 panels.

e-shift would have messed up the whole comparison forcing a different kind of analysis.
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post #14 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 03:03 PM
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Why does the image from a single DLP look sharper from the middle portion of the chip? The chip itself doesn't change. Its cut from a sheet I think. The only thing that would affect the image assuming the chip is in the sweet spot coming through the lens is the back plane focus of the lens. Of course at close throw (widest exit image), lens shift, the extremes could look less sharp.

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post #15 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Why does the image from a single DLP look sharper from the middle portion of the chip? The chip itself doesn't change. Its cut from a sheet I think. The only thing that would affect the image assuming the chip is in the sweet spot coming through the lens is the back plane focus of the lens. Of course at close throw (widest exit image), lens shift, the extremes could look less sharp.

I don't mean the entire surface of the chip. I'm talking about each individual mirror that makes up a pixel. There is a very slight roll off in sharpness at the edge of each mirror. I'll try and find the source of where I read that.

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post #16 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 05:51 PM
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The first thing I have to ask is what is your budget? All of the pjs you mentioned are under $3k.

As has been mentioned, I would say it would be a single large chip DLP with good optics. Maybe DP or Projection Design or Sim as Daniel mentioned.

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post #17 of 32 Old 05-27-2013, 09:02 PM
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Ericglo. Most of your referenced projectors use the same set of lenses and I believe the lens used in the Samsung to be sharper but they are all pretty sharp.

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post #18 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 10:08 AM
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I have a question related to sharpness.
I'm thinking of adding the Darbee into my PJ "chain". When I look online, there are two or three different models of the device.
They range in price from about $250 to about $350. What is the difference between them? Perhaps someone can point me to a thread that addresses this...
Thanks.
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post #19 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

I have a question related to sharpness.
I'm thinking of adding the Darbee into my PJ "chain". When I look online, there are two or three different models of the device.
They range in price from about $250 to about $350. What is the difference between them? Perhaps someone can point me to a thread that addresses this...
Thanks.

?? There is only 1 standalone darbee device out there:

https://shop.avscience.com/DarbeeVision--Darblet-DVP5000_p_351.html

Lumagen has a VP that includes the Darbee processing, but as far as the standalone devices, this is the one that everyone is talking about.
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post #20 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

?? There is only 1 standalone darbee device out there:

https://shop.avscience.com/DarbeeVision--Darblet-DVP5000_p_351.html

Lumagen has a VP that includes the Darbee processing, but as far as the standalone devices, this is the one that everyone is talking about.

Hi Zombie:
What about these two:

http://www.amazon.com/DARBEE-Visual-Presence-DVP-5000/dp/B007S08XBS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369762036&sr=8-1&keywords=darbee

and this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Presence-DarbeeVision-Darbee-Consumer-Processor/dp/B00BR0IT50/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1369762036&sr=8-2&keywords=darbee

One looks like Model #4000 and one Model #5000...
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post #21 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 10:46 AM
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it looks like they quietly released a new product.

The less expensive version @ $269 is only HDMI 1.3 and doesn't support 3D. That looks to be primary difference between the DVP # 4000 and # 5000 (which is the one everyone here has).
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post #22 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
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it looks like they quietly released a new product.

The less expensive version @ $269 is only HDMI 1.3 and doesn't support 3D. That looks to be primary difference between the DVP # 4000 and # 5000 (which is the one everyone here has).

Thanks for the clarification.

FWIW, I don't have the experience of most guys here, but to me, the high end DLP 720p projectors like the older Marantz and the Benq PE8720 (that I just sold) had incredible sharpness.
The manufacturers were pushing the 720p envelope with great build quality and optics before the advent of 1080p machines.
That led to some superb (but expensive) images...
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post #23 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently own the W1070, was looking to upgrade to something else but it seems its not really worth it..... It has to be DLP and have really good sharpness, not to fussed on 3D but happy if it does it. Thought the W7000 was a upgrade but from reading it doesnt seem that way with the W1070 having a DC3 and longer bulb hours and apparent equal sharpness.

Would love one of the Samsungs but future warranty would be trouble and they still seem really expensive !!

Infocus IN83 seem to be going cheap so maybe thats the route or wait for the Benq W8000 or something

smile.gif
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post #24 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 01:12 PM
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This projector ( same machine as the Digital Projection I had ) is the sharpest projector I've ever seen. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1457054/make-an-offer-projectiondesign-f32-1080-very-low-machine-lamp-hours-used

That is a good deal too - that would be a crazy good gaming projector !! eek.gifbiggrin.gif

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post

I currently own the W1070, was looking to upgrade to something else but it seems its not really worth it..... It has to be DLP and have really good sharpness, not to fussed on 3D but happy if it does it. Thought the W7000 was a upgrade but from reading it doesnt seem that way with the W1070 having a DC3 and longer bulb hours and apparent equal sharpness.

Would love one of the Samsungs but future warranty would be trouble and they still seem really expensive !!

Infocus IN83 seem to be going cheap so maybe thats the route or wait for the Benq W8000 or something

smile.gif

I suspect a good SP-A9000A can be had for around $3500. The PDs would be a great deal at $3500 too. If you aren't willing to spend $3500 you really aren't in the right forum.

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post #26 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 05:28 PM
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The PDs would be a great deal at $3500 too.

Ya, those are like 20K new.

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post #27 of 32 Old 05-28-2013, 07:13 PM
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Mark,
I should have realized that. I was going to mention Barco or Christie, but I don't think they have one chippers.


I have always thought it would be nice if manufacturers offered a model w/o a lens. That way you could buy one high end lens and keep it through various upgrades. I know it is not feasible, but it would be nice.wink.gif

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post #28 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Whats the sharpest dlp under $2000?

Benq W1200?
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post #29 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 04:15 AM
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A used Samsung SP-A900B, Marantz VP-11S2/VP-15S1 or Digital Projection/Projectiondesign machine. smile.gif
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post #30 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 04:18 AM
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I would also throw the Sharp XVZ-20000 in the mix as well. It's optics are close to the Samsung A900B. Fortunately I have had both.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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Sony Bravia Kdl40w2000 , Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Benq W1200 300 Inch 1080p Front Projector , Samsung Sp A900b Dlp Projector 1080p , Samsung Sp A800b Dlp Projector 1080p
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