Sony Tech Support Says The FMP-X1 Is Compatible With the VPL-VW1000ES - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 41 Old 06-01-2013, 02:54 PM
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C'mon guys....you know you'd love to see JVC type native CR on the Sony VPL-VW1000ES

May the success of a Nation be judged not by its collective wealth nor by its power, but by the contentment of its people.
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post #32 of 41 Old 06-01-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

C'mon guys....you know you'd love to see JVC type native CR on the Sony VPL-VW1000ES

Yes, I'll admit it (I had a RS20). But the other advantages of the Sony don't make we want to swap it for a JVC.
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post #33 of 41 Old 06-01-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

The FMP-X1 Media Player will use eyeIO codec and compression technique.

Press release; Engadget.
Notice that all these movies are mostly either 4K scans of old archive prints or if shot on 4K++ cameras with VFX/CGI are upconverts from a 2K DI.
Don't expect too much. cool.gif
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And this now, just when NHK flaunts 8K Ultra HD compact broadcast camera and 8K real time compression from 30Gbps camera stream to 85Mbs display stream. biggrin.gif
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So I guess you don't like what you see even in the best commercial movie theater since 4K movies have the CGI created and edited at 2K then upscaled for 4K to be added to the live action that is shot on 4K (or 5K) cameras. This is just the status of the original source material used for latest Hollywood films and not a limitation of the consumer 4K UHD TVs/projectors or upcoming video download services on their companion 4K UHD players.

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post #34 of 41 Old 06-02-2013, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

So I guess you don't like what you see even in the best commercial movie theater since 4K movies have the CGI created and edited at 2K then upscaled for 4K to be added to the live action that is shot on 4K (or 5K) cameras.
You assume something which very rearly happens, if at all. Such a workflow would be acceptable as a intermediate solution until they can do the VFX and CGI in 4K.
Movies like Total Recall, The Hobbit, Prometheus, The Great Gatsby, Amazing Spiderman, Oblivion are all shot in 5K, downsampled to 2K DI. All effects are created in 2K and the film is edited in 2K and rendered to a 2K DCP.
When these movies are released as "Mastered in 4K", that is a up-conversion of the 2K DCP to 4K according to the VFX Effects/Post production people in several discussion about the problem with creating VFX in 4K.
Quote:
This is just the status of the original source material used for latest Hollywood films and not a limitation of the consumer 4K UHD TVs/projectors or upcoming video download services on their companion 4K UHD players.
If the original master isn't 4K, (but sold as such) then it doesn't help much that the displays are 4K. Could as well just used the BD discs and let the displays up-convert.

So the question really becomes; When is a movie a real Mastered in 4K or just a up-converted master from 2K Digital Intermediate, like most, if not all of the ten movies Sony now is releasing as "Mastered in 4K" on BD that will be the first movies in Sony's 4K media player distribution system?


From Oblivion post production;
Quote:
Even though they were unable to completely finish in 4K due to the fact that it would have added significant costs and well over a month to post-production (especially since it was such an effect-intensive film), shooting in 4k and down-rezzing helped the team maintain the clinical level of detail in the final image that the project called for.
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/04/oscar-winning-claudio-miranda-oblivion-sony-f65/

What is true 4K movies and what is just marketing bluff that will give 4K a bad name?
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post #35 of 41 Old 06-20-2013, 09:40 PM
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Are you sure coolscan ?

A lot (classic) movies are in 35mm and they are begin scanned to 4K, 6K and even 8K (AFAIK over 100 movies until date are in true/real 4K and above now).

Normally they use this puppy:
http://www.dft-film.com/scanners/spirit_4k.php

Very nice example:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/movies/lawrence-of-arabia-mended-returns-to-screen-and-blu-ray.html

Almost every 35mm can be converted to true 4K, the limitation is the deep color and grayscale on actual digital format.

Sony did a bad thing labeling few BDs as "Mastered in 4K", they should be Mastered FROM 4K.

[]s,
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post #36 of 41 Old 06-21-2013, 06:41 AM
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You will start seeing a lot of thing's happen. Just like they are going back to Star trek OS and next Generation. They will go back and redo effects at 4k(only for movies that are worth it.

Remember all older movies where done with miniatures and 35mm they can easily go back to those.
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post #37 of 41 Old 06-21-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post

Are you sure coolscan ?

A lot (classic) movies are in 35mm and they are begin scanned to 4K, 6K and even 8K (AFAIK over 100 movies until date are in true/real 4K and above now).
You misunderstood.

I was not talking about the ability to scan 35mm film in 4K or higher.
All that modern films are edited digitally (scanned original 35mm or shot with digital cameras and all post production happens on computers) where the VFX and CGI is created in no higher resolution than 2K or 2.5K.

Particularly the computer rendered CGI can not be done in 4K because of the extra cost in render time. For example if it takes 48 hours to render each CGI frame.

To my knowledge, the only film that has had a 4K workflow to date, including VFX (about 1200 VFX shots) is The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo (that might have changed but just not reported).

Movies like The Hobbit, Prometheus and Gatsby, Total Recall and the latest Spiderman was all shot in 5K, but they only have a 2K finished version of the movies.

They can of course use the 35mm print version of the film (probably do), but again, that is still a digital 2K version of the movie printed back to 35mm film, and by that doesn't have the full quality like a film shot and edited in 4K.

35mm film doesn't have full 4K resolution, so old 35mm films scanned at 4K or higher will never have full 4K resolution like a film that is shot digitally with a camera that has 5K or higher resolution.
So it will be a debate of what is "real 4K" and what is Real 4K. Depends also on the "Look" of the film if the resolution quality really becomes apparent.
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post #38 of 41 Old 06-21-2013, 04:32 PM
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CGI, got it. But this will change no doubt. Next CPU generation will have 8-cores with 16-threads:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-core-i7-ivy-bridge-e-core-i3-haswell-lineup-detailed/37832.html

AMD already have an 8-core CPU like FX-8xxx family. Normally for CGI you have at least two physical CPUs on a MB (poor solution).

The right solution is like SuperBlade from Supermicro:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/SuperBlade/

4K is still very expensive, but the price will start to drop next year. Asus will release at the end of this month a 31.5" 4K @ US$ 3799:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/4/4394294/asus-4k-monitor-price-release-date-and-retina-compatibility

Price here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7051/computex-2013-asus-pq321-3840-x-2160-display-3799

[]s,
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post #39 of 41 Old 06-22-2013, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post

CGI, got it. But this will change no doubt. Next CPU generation will have 8-cores with 16-threads:

AMD already have an 8-core CPU like FX-8xxx family. Normally for CGI you have at least two physical CPUs on a MB (poor solution).

The right solution is like SuperBlade from Supermicro:
Processing power increase all the time so in a few years it will be viable to do 4K CGI faster.

But when we talk too long render time for 4K CGI, we are not talking about the processing power of work stations, but of rendering time of big data centers like Peter Jackson's Weta Digital data center in New Zealand that does The Hobbit, thw Avatar movies and Planet of the Apes.
The Weta data center was compleatly upgraded in 2008, and I am shure they keep upgrading the facility whenever new processing power comes available.

>
Weta digital in 2008;
  • 10,000 square foot server farm.
  • 4,000 HP BL2x220c blades.
  • 10 Gigabit Ethernet networking gear.
  • 34 racks comprise the computing core,
  • made of 32 machines each with 40,000 processors and
  • 104 terabytes of memory.

>
"For Avatar which is a 2K movie, those 40,000 processors were handling 7 or 8 gigabytes of data per second, running 24 hours a day.
A final copy of Avatar equated to 17.28 gigabytes per minute of storage."


The cooling facility of Weta data center.


Weta data center server farm.
Articles from 2008 and 2009.
LINK 1.
LINK 2.
LINK 3.
Quote:
4K is still very expensive, but the price will start to drop next year. Asus will release at the end of this month a 31.5" 4K @ US$ 3799:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/4/4394294/asus-4k-monitor-price-release-date-and-retina-compatibility

Price here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7051/computex-2013-asus-pq321-3840-x-2160-display-3799
The Asus monitor is a rebranded Sharp monitor that has been available for some time.
It is far from being the cheapest 4K-UHD, that will be the Seiki 50" 4K-UHD TV that has been as low as right under $1000 lately.
There will be several priced 4K-UHD TVs released during the summer and winter, but the real availability will be next year when they can implement HDMI 2.0.
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post #40 of 41 Old 08-09-2013, 10:58 AM
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Hello discodol,

I'm a Sony employee, first of all, thank you for your comments. As a valued customer, we want to respond directly. As you know, the VPL-VW1000ES projector was designed and built over two years ago, based on the industry standards in existence at that time. Still cutting edge, the VPL-VW1000ES displays both unsecured 4K video and upscales HD video to an amazing image.

The new Sony FMP-X1 4K Ultra HD media player is the only device that provides native 4K movies and TV programming to customers, and uses the latest industry standards to deliver content securely. While our newest 4K Ultra HD televisions incorporate new technologies, earlier products such as the VPL-VW1000ES require an update.

Please be assured Sony will meet your expectations to provide a path for you to enjoy 4K content from a media player compatible with the VPL-VW1000ES. Details of our program to incorporate a 4K media player will be announced and implemented as the Video Unlimited 4K download service is finalized and launched later this summer.


- JRSG37S
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post #41 of 41 Old 08-09-2013, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JRSG37S View Post

I'm a Sony employee, first of all, thank you for your comments.

The new Sony FMP-X1 4K Ultra HD media player is the only device that provides native 4K movies and TV programming to customers, and uses the latest industry standards to deliver content securely.

- JRSG37S

rolleyes.gif
No it isn't.

Neither the first nor the only one. cool.gif

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