4000 lumen Sony Laser projector VPL-FHZ55 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 79 Old 06-03-2013, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
holmern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Just read about a new projector that Sony is launching. Seems the specifications are a bit lacking still.. Contrast numbers are listed as "contrast"

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/installation/vpl-fhz55/overview

holmern is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 79 Old 06-03-2013, 03:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Very interesting.

It says "Up to 8,000:1 contrast ratio".

Hopefully a HT version isn't far behind.

I wonder what CR they could get with it stopped down to 1200 L.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #3 of 79 Old 06-03-2013, 03:09 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 331
In the overview, it lists only up to 8,000:1 contrast.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com

Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/

 

Call for B-stock projectors

Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI & many more.
Klipsch, RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.

AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #4 of 79 Old 06-03-2013, 04:05 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,347
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Looks like a business projector.
millerwill is offline  
post #5 of 79 Old 06-03-2013, 05:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tigerfan33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
LCD=dust blobs.
No thank you:)
tigerfan33 is offline  
post #6 of 79 Old 06-03-2013, 07:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
We had some discussion about this new Sony laser light engine business class projector about 3 weeks ago on THIS THREAD. We didn't know what the model number would be at that point.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #7 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 02:29 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
biliam1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Article on Engadget says it's supposed to be out by August.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/03/sony-vpl-fhz55-laser-projector-3lcd/
biliam1982 is offline  
post #8 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 07:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
The approach that Sony is using is to use a blue laser (not separated R, G and B lasers) that illuminates a phosphor target which in turn emittes a white light. This is a much less expensive approach than using individual Red, Green and Blue lasers to individually illuminate the 3 display chips. In part the cost saving includes only a modest design change to the existing projector chassis. One forum member claims to have inside info that Sony will be bringing out a replacement for the VW1000es (4K UHD) model with a white light laser/phosphor source replacing the conventional lamp and may even offer a retrofit upgrade (for an unknown price) for the existing VW1000es projectors. We may hear more about this from Sony at the CEDIA Expo in September.

The new business-class VPL-FHZ55 is based off of the existing lamp-based VPL-FH36 model. It will be very interesting to find out what the price difference is between these two models as this may provide some indication of what the price difference will be for other upcoming Sony laser-based projectors (i.e.., using the same laser/phosphor white light approach) over similar conventional lamp-based models. The MSRP on the VPL-FH36 is $5850, but the sreet price is well under $5K.



.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #9 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 10:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Verge2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: arkansas
Posts: 1,551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Do regular laser projectors have that shimmer? Is that another reason why they are lighting up phosphor?
Verge2 is offline  
post #10 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

Do regular laser projectors have that shimmer? Is that another reason why they are lighting up phosphor?

Any projector using lasers needs to includes provisions to "de-speckle" the laser light.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #11 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 04:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Do we not have the same issue of phosphor burn as CRT's?

Unless exciting them with photons rather than electrons is easier on them (seems like I said this before somewhere...).

Assuming that's the case, I'm surprised that an extra conversion step makes a viable solution, as it's got to reduce efficiency.

I guess if high output blue lasers are cheap it could be efficient on a L/$ basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Any projector using lasers needs to includes provisions to "de-speckle" the laser light.

Only if the phosphors emit coherent light, which I doubt.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #12 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 05:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Do we not have the same issue of phosphor burn as CRT's?

Unless exciting them with photons rather than electrons is easier on them (seems like I said this before somewhere...).

Assuming that's the case, I'm surprised that an extra conversion step makes a viable solution, as it's got to reduce efficiency.

I guess if high output blue lasers are cheap it could be efficient on a L/$ basis.

Only if the phosphors emit coherent light, which I doubt.

Correct that the use of a phosphor target generates white light without the speckle issue (no longer coherent light) of direct laser illumination. Thus this is one means to de-speckle a laser light source while there are other optical techniques that have been used or suggested for use with projectors that use a more direct technique for the laser to illuminate the display chips. It does appear there is a potential for the phosphor to degrade over time with the Sony approach. However, if Sony says there laser light engine is good for, say, 20K hours then that should include any potential for the phosphor degrading.



.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #13 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 06:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 293
I assume a phosphor element could be replaced similar to say putting in a new light bulb though it might be more difficult but still doable. The issue is most don't need 4000 lumens and the extra cost or upgrade cost to a 1000ES vs changing a light bulb at about 4600 per pop say once per year. Its almost like the phosphor coated diode or whatever is like a better longer lasting bulb. What's the downside of this technology quality wise over UHP illumination?

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #14 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 06:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,652
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 139
As soon as I saw "3LCD" I lost interest. Unless the laser doesn't play well with their SXRD panels, why not use them?

---------------------------------------

Look What AVS Made Me Do!
Seegs108 is offline  
post #15 of 79 Old 06-04-2013, 07:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,347
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I assume a phosphor element could be replaced similar to say putting in a new light bulb though it might be more difficult but still doable. The issue is most don't need 4000 lumens and the extra cost or upgrade cost to a 1000ES vs changing a light bulb at about 4600 per pop say once per year. Its almost like the phosphor coated diode or whatever is like a better longer lasting bulb. What's the downside of this technology quality wise over UHP illumination?

The question is, how many 'calibrated lumens' does this '4000 lumens' turn into. The !000ES's 2000 lumens turns into only somewhat more than half that after calibration. So if there is indeed the possibility of having one's 1000ES upgraded with this illumination engine, I for one would be interested in hearing about it. Heck, I might even be able to replace my 144"x72" HP screen with a Snomat 1.0 gain one.
millerwill is offline  
post #16 of 79 Old 06-05-2013, 01:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

However, if Sony says there laser light engine is good for, say, 20K hours then that should include any potential for the phosphor degrading.

If that's 20k hr to half of original brightness, that would be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

What's the downside of this technology quality wise over UHP illumination?

It could be an improvement, with a better spectral balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Heck, I might even be able to replace my 144"x72" HP screen with a Snomat 1.0 gain one.

Hi Bill,

What's the benefit?

What would be great about having kL available is to be able to use one of the low gain blackscreens, of which there are some new interesting ones being discussed in the Screens forum.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #17 of 79 Old 06-05-2013, 02:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,347
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post


Hi Bill,

What's the benefit?

What would be great about having kL available is to be able to use one of the low gain blackscreens, of which there are some new interesting ones being discussed in the Screens forum.

The black screens that I have seen have shown serious hotspotting issues, but I'm always interested to look at any new ones that are out there. Since my room is completely blacked out, too, I'm not sure what a black screen would have to offer.
millerwill is offline  
post #18 of 79 Old 06-05-2013, 03:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 293
NOAH. Hi. As you might know I recently switched from a Studeotec 130 to a Snomat 100. Except for a small loss in brightness hardly noticeable in2D but quite noticeable in 3D, the screen dramatically improved my PQ. The screen material disappears and makes it look like you are looking through a window with no glass. Bill has seen it. Tom Huffman from Chromapure has seen it and a WSR reviewer too. I was surprised at how much the PQ improved. Most black screens are designed to reject ambient light and to reflect back direct light from the projector at the gain of the screen. My understanding which could be wrong is that black levels are not improved. black screen have their place, allowing a projector to be used with overhead lights on and still have a nice bright picture viewable of course commensurate with the particular screen gain.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #19 of 79 Old 06-05-2013, 03:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coolscan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Don't get confused or lost in the term "Laser" in this projector.

This projectors light engine has more familiarity with LED than Laser.

It has nothing to do with or has any similarity to Laser projectors.
The laser light doesn't hit the screen, just the light from the Phosphorus "agitated" by the Laser.

"Remote Phosphorus" is the closest to a name for this technology.
coolscan is offline  
post #20 of 79 Old 06-05-2013, 06:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I assume a phosphor element could be replaced similar to say putting in a new light bulb though it might be more difficult but still doable. The issue is most don't need 4000 lumens and the extra cost or upgrade cost to a 1000ES vs changing a light bulb at about 4600 per pop say once per year. Its almost like the phosphor coated diode or whatever is like a better longer lasting bulb. What's the downside of this technology quality wise over UHP illumination?

How many 'real' lumens Sony is getting out (i.e. when calibrated for 6500K) is still unknown as it will depend on the spectrum coming off the phosphor and until someone gets their hands, or color probe, on one of these its really anyones guess. We do know that most business class projectors using UHP lamps have very high color temp. which allows the manufacturer to claim very high lumens, as compared to a good home theater projector using the same wattage UHP lamp. However, the performance of Sony laser/phosphor approach is still an unknown for now, unless someone has inside info they would like to share.



.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #21 of 79 Old 06-05-2013, 10:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 293
Just taking a stab, I am going to guess just under 2000 llumens. because the light emitted is not coherent FDA approval would not be required. It would seem to me any type of bulb projector could employ the Sony light source. Starting from a new jit (chassis) y guess would be a MSRP of $2Kto $3K over the equivalent half the power calibrated bulb projector. Retrofitting the 1000ES,my guess would be $5K..

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #22 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 06:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
I see from a press release that Sony will be showing the VPL-FHZ55 at next week's Infocomm show in Orlando. Perhaps they will announce the price at that the show. Any forum members plan on attending?



.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #23 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 07:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
space2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Yes it will be at Infocomm, smile.gif Unfortunately I am not going this year

Even though its rated 4000 lumen it looked way brighter then the fh36 with a 60 hours on the bulb. FH36 is rated 5200 lumen
space2001 is offline  
post #24 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 07:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Yes it will be at Infocomm, smile.gif Unfortunately I am not going this year

Even though its rated 4000 lumen it looked way brighter then the fh36 with a 60 hours on the bulb. FH36 is rated 5200 lumen

There is a small chance I will make it up to Orlando for one day at Infocomm (a 3+ hour drive for me). I have a contractor scheduled to do some work at my home next week, so I don't know if I can get away or not.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #25 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
space2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Sony will also be showing off there 4k OLED at Infocomm
space2001 is offline  
post #26 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 02:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 15

any idea if a 4k OLED would  get up to our projection screen sizes in technology as well as price in the foreseeable future so we don't need pjs anymore?

jlanzy is offline  
post #27 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 02:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Hi Mark,
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

..the screen dramatically improved my PQ. The screen material disappears and makes it look like you are looking through a window with no glass.

My HP disappears, but I haven't seen a Snomat so I can't say it wouldn't be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Bill has seen it.

Bill, can you?

I don't know if your Sony has an iris, but if it does going to a lower gain screen costs you CR for a given brightness, because you can stop it down with a HP to get more.

Unless you can get adequate brightness from a Snomat with it stopped down all the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Most black screens are designed to reject ambient light and to reflect back direct light from the projector at the gain of the screen. My understanding which could be wrong is that black levels are not improved.

My room is dark, but only at night; I'm interested in blackscreens for the improvement in intrascen CR I'd get with mixed brightness scenes.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #28 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 03:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ron Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Florida and West Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,688
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

any idea if a 4k OLED would  get up to our projection screen sizes in technology as well as price in the foreseeable future so we don't need pjs anymore?

With the current manufacturing technique used for OLED, panels large enough for TVs are very expensive to produce, due in part to relatively low yields. Recent articles say a different manufacturing approach is needed before OLED, in sizes for flat panel TVs, can become a mass produced item at reasonable prices. Maybe a decade from now really large screen OLED displays will be practical at moderate prices.

Ron Jones
Blog + Reviews + Articles: projectorreviews.com
Ron Jones is online now  
post #29 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 04:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Hi Mark,
My HP disappears, but I haven't seen a Snomat so I can't say it wouldn't be better.
Bill, can you?

I don't know if your Sony has an iris, but if it does going to a lower gain screen costs you CR for a given brightness, because you can stop it down with a HP to get more.

Unless you can get adequate brightness from a Snomat with it stopped down all the way.
My room is dark, but only at night; I'm interested in blackscreens for the improvement in intrascen CR I'd get with mixed brightness scenes.
Noah. My room is a black pit. To me, the only CR needed as to on off is to have enough not to crush the blacks ar the chosen gamma. for movies that's a 2.4 for me and for TV, sports, its a 2.2 and the Sony can provide enough CR for that and still have goos brightness. After about 900 hrs I do run hockey and basket ball on high lamp to make the arena bright enouh to fool me into thinking I am viewing there.


I will differ with you re making the fabric disappear with a 2.4. I am always aware that a screen has fabric and its effect on making the picture become somewhat artificial EXCEPT with the Snomat. The fabric is very apparent with the HP2.4 and even with the ST130. Its not that either or those screens are bad but when you see my Snomat one realizes some realism is lost with the others. I didn't expect the difference to be so dramatic and I think it is do to the screens gain uniformity across the screen and the complete lack of screen texture. Its a trade of, HP enables a large screen size with projectors in the 1000 Lumens glass with good brightness. I wouldn't want to try and light up a screen large that 1.78 110 inch D with Snomat and my 1000ES.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #30 of 79 Old 06-06-2013, 06:25 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,347
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Hi Mark,
My HP disappears, but I haven't seen a Snomat so I can't say it wouldn't be better.
Bill, can you?

I don't know if your Sony has an iris, but if it does going to a lower gain screen costs you CR for a given brightness, because you can stop it down with a HP to get more.

Unless you can get adequate brightness from a Snomat with it stopped down all the way.
My room is dark, but only at night; I'm interested in blackscreens for the improvement in intrascen CR I'd get with mixed brightness scenes.

Yes, Noah, I did see Mark's SnoMat screen, and it did look very nice. Like you, though, I think my HP2.4 is superb, so I would have to see them side-by-side to make any comparative assessment. For me, though, it's a mute point, for I would be unable to get the brightness I want without the HP, for my screen is quite a bit larger than Mark's. (I would have preferred more brightness even on Mark's smaller screen, though Mark was quite happy with the brightness. I guess I'm just addicted to the more dynamic pic that the HP affords.)
millerwill is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off