$1000 projector vs. $3000 projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Unlike speakers, there's not a place to see projectors in either of these ranges (if there is let me know where I should be looking), making it difficult to see the differences.

So all my looking has been online. I'm trying to determine what my budget should be.

I had looked at the BenQ 1070 but as I've been reading started to look at the BenQ 7000 and Mitsubishi HC7800D (the 7800 can be had for $1100 right now). And then I've looked at another step up to something like the Epson 5020UB and Panasonic PTAE8000U.

The question I have is what sorts of differences am I going to see in this range? Especially as it relates to a dedicated 12x19 room w no light issues.

If it matters my receiver is the Pioneer Elite SC-61 with Klipsch speakers. Projector will be ceiling mounted.

Under $1000
BenQ1070

Under $1500
BenQ 7000
Mitsubishi HC7800D

$2500 range
Epson 5020UB
Panasonic PTAE8000U
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post #2 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 05:41 AM
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What are your priorities, 2D, 3D, sports or gaming? You might also consider an RS45 B-stock.

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post #3 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 05:41 AM
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I've owned the w1070 and its a great projector for the price, but its not the best for a dedicated theatre room. It's very bright and I have to use an nd filter to reduce light output. The color was great on it but black levels are not very good and it's quite loud. I ended up returning it and getting the hw50es and I'm very happy with it.
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post #4 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Great question. Movies and Video Games will be the main use. 3D will be cool, but mostly in games so not a huge use. Not a big sports guy.
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post #5 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 05:47 AM
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You left out the Sharp XV-Z300000 with a current selling price under $2500 (msrp was $4999 when released)
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post #6 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 06:15 AM
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The w1070 has low input lag, epsons have high input lag. The panasonic is good for input lag as well. After I had the w1070 I moved to the Sony because of the low input lag. I would google search for the projector you want to get and find out the input lag because some of them are horrible.
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post #7 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post

The w1070 has low input lag, epsons have high input lag. The panasonic is good for input lag as well. After I had the w1070 I moved to the Sony because of the low input lag. I would google search for the projector you want to get and find out the input lag because some of them are horrible.

Sorry, what does low input lag do and what am I looking for? Is this in relation to playing games, I've read some about problems there but not sure if that's the lag and if I'm looking for high or low.

What do you think in terms of the $1000 range vs. the $2500 range?
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post #8 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 06:26 AM
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If you play a lot of first person shooters and your trying to aim a projector with high input lag will make it very hard to aim, it's even worst if you play online. Say you move left and worst the lag is the more the delay will be till you see your guy move. You do get used to it a bit but it does make a big difference. I play a lot of racing games and I find them unplayable on a tv of projector with high lag.
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post #9 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 06:32 AM
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The benq 7000 and mithc7800 should be ok for gaming from what I've read, with the 7000 being slightly better. But the 5020 has high input lag like most of the jvc projectors.
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post #10 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 08:19 AM
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not ideal since my comparison also factored in 4yrs of progress, lcd vs lcos, and 1000 vs 3000 bux, but when i upgraded my projector a few weeks ago i took some side-by-side comparison pictures of my new out of the box uncalibrated jvc x35 and my old 1800hrs on the bulb epson hc720. the difference was staggering

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475984/jvc-x35-vs-epson-hc720
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post #11 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

not ideal since my comparison also factored in 4yrs of progress, lcd vs lcos, and 1000 vs 3000 bux, but when i upgraded my projector a few weeks ago i took some side-by-side comparison pictures of my new out of the box uncalibrated jvc x35 and my old 1800hrs on the bulb epson hc720. the difference was staggering

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475984/jvc-x35-vs-epson-hc720

Whoa. That is an impressive difference!

I wish I could give some of these a test run. I'll see what I can find as far as ht shops here, in my limited experience those are typical way high end and won't have anything I could afford.

Another general question, dlp vs. lcd...is the move now, in this price range, dip?
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post #12 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post

The benq 7000 and mithc7800 should be ok for gaming from what I've read, with the 7000 being slightly better. But the 5020 has high input lag like most of the jvc projectors.

So it sounds like I need to look at $1500 and up? Though that deal on the Mitsubishi deal is pretty impressive. Wonder if there are any comparisons out there between the 1000/1500/2500 displays.

How big of an effect does the screen play? I'm thinking about the Elite screens.
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post #13 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 09:05 AM
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[quote name="mbuck" url="/t/1477997/1000-projector-vs-3000
-projector#post_23444496"]
So it sounds like I need to look at $1500 and up? Though that deal on the Mitsubishi deal is pretty impressive. Wonder if there are any comparisons out there between the 1000/1500/2500 displays.

How big of an effect does the screen play? I'm thinking about the Elite screens.[/quote]


The screen depends a lot on the setup you looking to have and screen size. If its in a light controlled room a 1.0 gain white screen is prob you best bet. For the price the w1070 is a really good picture. Have you ever seen a dlp projector because if you see rainbows that can be a deal breaker, it was for me I'm really sensitive to them.
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post #14 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd love to get my eyes on the Mitsubishi HC7800D as it's priced at $1100 right now and seems to be a step up. I'll have to hunt around, I don't want to buy the projector blind.
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post #15 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post

I'd love to get my eyes on the Mitsubishi HC7800D as it's priced at $1100 right now and seems to be a step up. I'll have to hunt around, I don't want to buy the projector blind.

You may want look over the HC7800 owners thread and the Z30000, I have one I am trying to sell that I have owned for a few weeks.. wife issues.. It is listed in the AVS classified and ebay.
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post #16 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post

Whoa. That is an impressive difference!

I wish I could give some of these a test run. I'll see what I can find as far as ht shops here, in my limited experience those are typical way high end and won't have anything I could afford.

Another general question, dlp vs. lcd...is the move now, in this price range, dip?

i can pretty much guarantee you that all the projectors you've listed would be MUCH better than the epson from my comparison. i always thought it had mediocre blacks, but i didn't really realize how terrible they were until i got a new plasma. it only took me 2weeks to order the new projector, which was 13days of comparison shopping:p

from my research, the jvc i bought is likely better than the 5020, and the benq 1070 is MUCH better than the epson so the difference between your choices should be less
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post #17 of 64 Old 06-19-2013, 01:42 PM
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The 5020 will crush the 1070 in regard to perceived contrast and black level. The 5020 and HW50 are about as close as it gets to the JVC.
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post #18 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I may go with something in the middle, around $1500. Right now the top runners in that range is the Epson 3020 and BenQ 7000, leaning towards the BenQ as it's DLP (told this is more film like) and has better lag. A bit concerned with noise though. But at 110" from 18' away I'll probably run it on Eco mode so shouldn't be too bad.

The Mitsubishi HC7800D is still in the running too...but probably because it's only $1100. What's impressive about both the Mit and BenQ is that they are often put up against much bigger projectors (ie. just saw it put up against the $4k sony hw50).
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post #19 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 07:36 PM
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Whoops. Thought this was the plus $3K forum. Really liked the comment recommending a 1.0 gain screen in a light controlled room. If you follow that advice you may end up being a very unhappy camper. Wide 1/2 angle screens which most 1.0 gain screens are require a black pit type theater where light bouncing off the screen as light tends to do since that is the purpose of a screen will hit side walls, ceilings, and floors and unless these surfaces are non reflecting will bounce back to the screen and then to your eyes tending to wash out blacks and black detail. There are a lot of factors to consider in choosing a screen size and fabric and most of this has nothing to do with the brand of the screen. Likewise, there are a lot of factors to consider when selecting a projector. There is no magic price demarktation (I made up the word).Once you determine the performance characteristics you want and prioritize them because not all can necessarily be met at a particular price level, then you can choose the best fit at your chose budget point. you might want to spend some time at the under $3K forum. generally very good machines can be had between $2 and $3K street price and I would tend to stay away from machines under this price level.

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post #20 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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generally very good machines can be had between $2 and $3K street price and I would tend to stay away from machines under this price level.

Interesting, so stay away from the BenQ7000, etc. and look at the Panasonic, JVC, etc. That's what I was wondering.

I am finding some things make it easy, like throw distance and lag. I want a 110" picture from 15-18', preferably closer to 18. That knocks out quite a few even excellent projector (like the Epson due to lag).

Not easy to go through it all and make a choice, but I'm learning a lot.
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post #21 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 07:48 PM
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For 2D, yes, but for 3D the BenQ W7000 still blows away what JVC and Panasonic offers. This is true with most DLP based 3D projectors. The Sharp 30k is nicer for 3D, albeit not as bright as the W7000, but you get better contrast perfomance during 3D over the W7000.

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post #22 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm interested in 3D, but not a raving fan. I'm most impressed by 3D inside of games, most movies are only ok. So 3D isn't that important, though I will use it from time to time.

Gaming seems to be something that may determine my top 3. A lot of the great projectors get knocked out due to lag (pretty much all the Epson models). Of course not a lot of reviews talk about lag or gaming so it does make it tough.

Now that I look at it, many of my $2500ish projectors are all LCD and it seems LCD is out for gaming.
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post #23 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 09:16 PM
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what do you game on now?

I only ask because I almost didn't buy my plasma because I heard it had really bad lag(and it does) but did not realize that I was already used to playing on a plasma with almost as bad of lag. ppl were claiming the lag on game mode was still worse than most displays, but it was actually very close to what I was used to.

I think you're very correct to worry about it, it's just good to keep it in perspective. would be a shame to cross a great projector off your list because it has the same lag as what you're currently using(unless you're unhappy with your current display's lag)


the jvc I just bought is better than the plasma(Samsung f8500) for lag. but far as I can tell there's no game mode or anything to help with the jvc. still, I can't say i've noticed anything. FPS's and NHL13 feel normal to me.
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post #24 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting, yeah I don't know what sort of lag I'm at now, I'm playing on an LCD TV, 40".
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post #25 of 64 Old 06-23-2013, 10:57 PM
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I am too tired to search for the gaming lags on the JVcs and the Sony but I think zombie will post them. I think 2D is the most important aspect and favor projectors which have the best 2D performance at a price point. For ocassional 3D viewing most projectors perform well enough to satisfy the occasional viewer.

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post #26 of 64 Old 06-24-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post

Interesting, yeah I don't know what sort of lag I'm at now, I'm playing on an LCD TV, 40".

brand and model? I don't know if lag is inherently better or worse on lcd's, but I've noticed it on more lcds. seems to be more related to how much processing is done. a lot of 'better' TV's seem to high more lag.

anyway, if I had to guess, and it's 100% a guess, i'd say the jvc is in the 40-60ms range. definitely not stellar. that's simply based on the fact it feels about the same as what I got with my previous plasma, and the f8500 set to 'pc' mode. I could be way off, it could be much worse, or slightly better?


I would definitely try to find the lag specs for your current tv though. then maybe set that as your top end. anything less would be acceptable
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post #27 of 64 Old 06-24-2013, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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It's a Proscan 41"... says 5ms response time, but the one thread I can find with info says 30-40ms lag. So, maybe some of those that I've written off can go back on the list.

It'd be great to be at 20ms, but not sure who has that or if I'd see a big jump between that and 30ms.

Great insight.
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post #28 of 64 Old 06-24-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post

It's a Proscan 41"... says 5ms response time, but the one thread I can find with info says 30-40ms lag. So, maybe some of those that I've written off can go back on the list.

It'd be great to be at 20ms, but not sure who has that or if I'd see a big jump between that and 30ms.

Great insight.

response time and input lag are completely different values.

response time is basically how quickly the pixels can change. input lag is how long it takes the signal to get displayed and is largely determined but how quick(or slow) the video processing is done.

30-40ms seems pretty average for todays displays. tough to say what you'd notice. how do you find gaming on the current display? i'm inclined to think if 40ms feels 'normal', you wouldn't notice much change between 20 and 30ms. I believe the f8500 is reported around 60ms when in pc mode. for me, that's barely noticeable compared to the crt(I assume a RPTV crt is still virtually lagless?). I wouldn't say i'm overly sensitive though. I've only noticed lag issues a couple of times when playing Kinect games at friends homes. games that I normally do very well on, I suddenly couldn't play cause I was too slow. flipping their TV's into game mode has so far always fixed this.

this is so tough. manufacturers don't seem to provide this info, reviewers rarely test for it, yet at some point it becomes a huge deal breaker. for me that seems to be at the 80-100ms range before I 'can't stand it'. but i'm sure for others 60ms is a major problem(just look at the st60 lag threads). it's very unfortunate this isn't common information, because it's potentially the most important factor in gaming.
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post #29 of 64 Old 06-24-2013, 01:39 PM
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I had the w1070 and it has 20ms, I now have the hw50 and it has 30ms and I can't feel the difference. But my tv has 40ms and I can feel the lag on shooter or racing games.
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post #30 of 64 Old 06-24-2013, 04:46 PM
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I actually just saw a review state the jvc(It was the x55 actually) at 68ms, so pretty high. I think most of my displays have all been in the 60-80ms range except for the CRT RPTV that I replaced just over a month ago. maybe i'm not as bad at games as I think... maybe my displays are the problem, haha.
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