JVC DLA-X35 not what I had hoped for....... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Well you guys are all so incredibly right !!!

I'm sitting here looking at the opening screen of Life of Pi on Blu-ray and the picture is blow out incredible. And this is with default factory settings on the X35.

I apologize for putting you all through this exercise of teaching a novice. It just never occurred to me that what looked fine in the old DLP projector wouldn't look fine on the JVC.

This reminds me of when we bought our first projector about 10 years ago. We were going to buy a new HD TV. However we discovered that while DVDs looked great on those early HD TVs the cable signal in our rural area just wasn't up to snuff and regular TV looked awful. I decided to buy a projector for DVDs instead and kept the old TV for about 3 more years until the Charter upgraded the signal in our area. This is much the same. This is sort of the same.........expecting DVDs to look good on a projector made for HD.

Anyway all your input and lessons are much appreciated. I will be picking up one of those OPTO DVD players for watching all our old DVDs. One on Ebay was suggested here earlier on. Can you make some model number suggestions?

Thanks again for all your help.
BH
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post #92 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 03:38 PM
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good deal, glad to hear it's looking good with BD content.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OPPO-DV-980H-DVD-Player-HDMI-SACD-Upconverts-to-1080i-p-Original-Box-Remote-NR-/141010749720?pt=DVD_Players_Recorders&hash=item20d4e54918

The Oppo DVD models are the 971, 980 and the 983 which was the flagship model at the time (this is the one I use)

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv983h/


it's worth getting one of these DVD players, the 983 looked surprisingly good on my friends X35 (RS46) I am currently calibrating.
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post #93 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You'll be holding out for a very very long time is my guess for the hybrids, lasers or LED's to get comparable to LCOS or DLP's at the lower price ranges.

Depends on your definition of lower price ranges. I almost bought a Vango, actually if I'd had my Radience at the time I very well may have. The new M-Vision Cine 1000 sounds pretty interesting as well I look forward to hearing Scott's input on those. 4K could be a while but it sounds like those could start showing up in a couple years.
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The Viewsonic and Acer hybrids that have come out have fairly average contrast and poorer sharpness, less features, and poorer processing.

I couldn't care less about those cheap ones, though I've got a Qumi that's "fun" but pretty poor overall.


I'm just glad the OP got it figured out.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #94 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

correct, it's a similar seating distance based on the screen size. I was referring to the raw size of the screen. an 80 or 100" screen is generally going to look sharper than a 140-150" screen. This is why e-shift looks so good on my relatively large screen. The increase in pixel density + the mpc sharpening is a great combo.

but from viewing distances both situations would be similar right?
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post #95 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 11:08 PM
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I would just like to jump in here and say that I used to have a greywolf screen as the op has and it had a tremendous amount of screen texture with a bright projector. That could be a contributing factor...

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post #96 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark View Post

I would just like to jump in here and say that I used to have a greywolf screen as the op has and it had a tremendous amount of screen texture with a bright projector. That could be a contributing factor...


Yes....... i was wondering about that and now have to agree. With Life of Pi the water, island and night sky scenes were spectacular. But some of the bright daylight sky scenes were a touch grainy. My reaction was that the screen was contributing to this.However at least for not I won't be c considering replacing it.

Next I'll be working with all those sharpness adjustments discussed earlier to try and dial in the image even nicer.

Thanks again everyone. This has been amazingly educational. I at first thought the JVC tech support was very good because they answered reasonably quickly and were here in the US. However bottom line was they gave me no real help. All the answers came from here. The projector arrived on Wed. On Thursday I started this thread and by Friday night the problem was solved. One couldn't hope for a better resolution to a problem than that.

Oh......and I was high bidder on the OPPO DV-981HD on Ebay. Probably a few more dollars than I should have spent but I think worth it given all that was said here.

BH
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post #97 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark View Post

I would just like to jump in here and say that I used to have a greywolf screen as the op has and it had a tremendous amount of screen texture with a bright projector. That could be a contributing factor...

It was one of the reasons I chose Vutec's Greydove material instead. However it does suffer from some hotspotting and being a vinyl type material has stretched over the last decade meaning that it is no longer quite 16:9!!
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post #98 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

there isn't enough data on the OP's setup to know exactly what he is seeing. I can tell the thread that noise is most certainly not a problem on the X35 I have here using the Oppo 983 for upscaling DVD's.

i've asked the OP to post a closeup so we can see what is going on.

And I just want to be clear for anyone reading this down the road. I'm not saying the JVC is a noisy projector, I'm simply saying the DLPs I own look cleaner especially with content that has inherent noise in the source.

JVC has done a spectacular job at bringing their low end model down to a price point where nothing priced similarly can compete in picture quality. The DLP projectors I own originally sold for a lot more money and one would expect them to look cleaner considering the price and they do. The JVC does an adequate job considering how much you pay. They are a great a great bargain with just a few disadvantages DLP has over it.
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post #99 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 06:15 AM
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Funny, I'm another ex Greywolf screen owner: The texture really began to annoy me after a while, I felt like it was watching through a gauze/mesh as during panning shots it would be really obvious and I could 'see' the screen. When I got my Beamax matt white tab tensioned screen I lost a bit of contrast, but the picture now just appears in space and doesn't seem to be hitting an actual surface. One of the reasons why I'm very wary of replacing it with something like a Draper React II screen until I've had chance to see one at a forum member's house soon. If this doesn't work out then I'll keep the Beamax and work out some way to improve the room just for when viewing films (since it's a living room the rest of the time).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #100 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Funny, I'm another ex Greywolf screen owner: The texture really began to annoy me after a while, I felt like it was watching through a gauze/mesh as during panning shots it would be really obvious and I could 'see' the screen.

Yes........that is exactly it. With the DLA-X35 on white background shots last night I could see the texture of the screen. This wasn't the case with the Benq W9000 but it wasn't early as bright as the new X35.

As I stated a few posts up though all I did last night was stick in the Life of Pi Blu-ray and watch. Next I'll be trying to make all the adjustments mentioned in this thread. Plus my wife was going over reviews on our Panasonic Blu-ray player and found people saying we needed to turn off edge enhancement and highlighting on that as well.

BH
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post #101 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 07:13 AM
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Glad you are getting to the bottom of the problem. Once all the adjustments are made, put one of the offender disk in and place a piece of printer paper or foam core board on the screen so you can compare the screen surface to something smooth.. Don't use tape, try and rig it someway without actually sticking it to the screen.. i.e tape it to the boarder etc
Good luck!
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post #102 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHDavis View Post

Yes....... i was wondering about that and now have to agree. With Life of Pi the water, island and night sky scenes were spectacular. But some of the bright daylight sky scenes were a touch grainy. My reaction was that the screen was contributing to this.However at least for not I won't be c considering replacing it.

Next I'll be working with all those sharpness adjustments discussed earlier to try and dial in the image even nicer.

Thanks again everyone. This has been amazingly educational. I at first thought the JVC tech support was very good because they answered reasonably quickly and were here in the US. However bottom line was they gave me no real help. All the answers came from here. The projector arrived on Wed. On Thursday I started this thread and by Friday night the problem was solved. One couldn't hope for a better resolution to a problem than that.

Oh......and I was high bidder on the OPPO DV-981HD on Ebay. Probably a few more dollars than I should have spent but I think worth it given all that was said here.

BH

interesting info on the screen, it's good that others posted their experience. I did some reading on this screen material in the graywolf II thread. it seems others are seeing the same thing. The JVC can crank out ~900 lumens in high lamp which is going to be fairly bright on a 100" screen.

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Originally Posted by jbrocious View Post

well.... i have to say my response is the same as everyone else's review. With the HC8100 the texture/grainyness is VERY noticeable during bright scenes. It is a bit distracting if you are looking at an bright blue ocean scene. The black levels are excellent, but I'm not sure if I want to stick with this screen. For HD tv viewing, its noticeable.

good deal on the Oppo. These are very good DVD upscaling players. Just don't expect a miracle now that you have seen a real bluray. smile.gif

The Oppo has a number of controls for sharpening, you'll have to experiment with those settings when you get it. Definitely turn off any processing on your Panasonic BD player.

Good luck with your new setup.
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post #103 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHDavis View Post

Yes....... i was wondering about that and now have to agree. With Life of Pi the water, island and night sky scenes were spectacular. But some of the bright daylight sky scenes were a touch grainy. My reaction was that the screen was contributing to this.However at least for not I won't be c considering replacing it.

Next I'll be working with all those sharpness adjustments discussed earlier to try and dial in the image even nicer.

Thanks again everyone. This has been amazingly educational. I at first thought the JVC tech support was very good because they answered reasonably quickly and were here in the US. However bottom line was they gave me no real help. All the answers came from here. The projector arrived on Wed. On Thursday I started this thread and by Friday night the problem was solved. One couldn't hope for a better resolution to a problem than that.

Oh......and I was high bidder on the OPPO DV-981HD on Ebay. Probably a few more dollars than I should have spent but I think worth it given all that was said here.

BH

You had JVC trying to solve a projector problem that was not a projector problem. Problem is a projector/screen mismatch.

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post #104 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 07:48 PM
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Have you compared them to the same Blu Ray ? wink.gif

Wow this thread exploded!


Of course, but my point was that the picture is so good with a DVD (XA2 as the playback device, they look almost as good on my Opp-93) that it isn't worth it to simply go out and replace every DVD I own.

I plan on doing some A-Bing in the future, but I dont' feel i'm being slighted by playing a DVD on that size screen (also using a Lumagen). So its probably not completely the same thing.

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post #105 of 127 Old 07-13-2013, 08:59 PM
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Wow this thread exploded!


Of course, but my point was that the picture is so good with a DVD (XA2 as the playback device, they look almost as good on my Opp-93) that it isn't worth it to simply go out and replace every DVD I own.

I plan on doing some A-Bing in the future, but I dont' feel i'm being slighted by playing a DVD on that size screen (also using a Lumagen). So its probably not completely the same thing.

With a Lumagen, I would just set the device that plays the DVD be set for 480i and let the Lumagen do the upscaling. That is what I was doing with an old HD DVD (A35) player. Just don't play many DVD's these days.

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post #106 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

You had JVC trying to solve a projector problem that was not a projector problem. Problem is a projector/screen mismatch.

No, actually it was a projector/DVD input problem. The screen issue is real but minor in comparison to the serious dithering the Panasonic Blu-ray player with the DVD was causing. Nobody at JVC tech asked if I was using a DVD or a Blu-ray disk......remember DVDs look fine on the old Benq and being a novice I had no reason to believe the same wouldn't be true with the X35. That issue was raised here on this forum. JVC tech did little more than ask about projector setup, screen distance, viewing distance etc. They basically said the picture should be excellent out of the box (which is true) and not much more.

Thanks to all the people here willing to share their knowledge I now know a whole lot more about using projectors.

BH
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post #107 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 04:46 AM
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Right, usually these problems are almost always a combination of things, but mainly just the DVD vs. Bluray issue is the big deal, and the upscaler / player quality. Though it sounds like you could improve the quality further by buying a new screen, but also I will still say that a JVC isn't my first choice for SD Viewing (fancy upscaler or not).

The reason the support is better in the forums is because we are the OCD support group.
Just don't visit the calibration threads, as there is a whole different level of psychiatric problems on that floor.


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post #108 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHDavis View Post

No, actually it was a projector/DVD input problem. The screen issue is real but minor in comparison to the serious dithering the Panasonic Blu-ray player with the DVD was causing. Nobody at JVC tech asked if I was using a DVD or a Blu-ray disk......remember DVDs look fine on the old Benq and being a novice I had no reason to believe the same wouldn't be true with the X35. That issue was raised here on this forum. JVC tech did little more than ask about projector setup, screen distance, viewing distance etc. They basically said the picture should be excellent out of the box (which is true) and not much more.

Thanks to all the people here willing to share their knowledge I now know a whole lot more about using projectors.

BH

You reported a projector problem. They were looking for a projector problem. They are not there to evaluate your BD player and screen. Great if they can do so, because it would have saved them from the expense of sending out a replacement and converting a perfectly good projector into a refurb. When you are on the forum, you are not asking just one person. Odds are pretty good that someone else has had that problem and can provide some helpful input. This is one of the reasons this forum is so valuable. You put everybody's experience together here and you have a vast knowledge base.

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post #109 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 08:02 AM
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True, or just use the process of elimination which is usually the same:

1) Project onto a different screen or the wall temporarily
2) Try a different player and the highest quality source (hence a Bluray)
3) Try a different HDMI cable direct to the source, remove all HDMI AVR's or switches
4) Try changing RGB or YCBCR modes
5) Ensure Gamma is not blown out and highlighting image noise, turn off Sharpening and Processing, etc...
6) Get a pro to visit your house if all else fails, or have the MFR replace the projector unnecessarily smile.gif

etc... etc...

Usually does the trick in these cases where someone reports very strange problems.

In his defense, IMO it is JVC's fault, JVC has created the refurbs themselves by not being thorough and having a good standard questionnaire they should ask all users before asking them to send their projector back. I know if either Zombie or I were running their support department, we'd write up the questions much differently than they ask them. Also, plenty of people sent their PJ's in unnecessarily due to lamp problems on the older units, and that was bad procedure as well.


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post #110 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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You can't assume that all consumers are going to have extensive experience in projectors. Even after having projectors for over 10 years I did not know that a newer machine would not project a DVD at the same quality level of a 6 or 7 year old projector. The one Blu-ray I had viewed with the old Benq did not show any significant improvement in image over how DVDs showed up. Now of course I have learned that there are levels of quality in DVD to Blu-ray HD conversion and that color wheels in DLP projectors can get dirty over time and thus degrade the image. I was aware of none of this when I bought my first refurb JVC (the first one was a refurb......remember.......stated in the original post).

And JVC certainly needs to be able to ascertain from the general public what they are using all around the projector in order to sort out a problem. I ran into generic questions by people who seemed not to know genuine technical detail. They knew the menu structure to check some basics but no one ever asked what my source or screen was and it never occurred to me that this was important..........again because it had always been fine on the Benq. The only thing that changed was the project. Naive perhaps.....but a logical conclusion. It seems to me these people needed to be the first level of support interface with a higher more technical level available when needed. Brother (printers) has this support system and it works well. If that higher level is available with JVC it was never offered to me.

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post #111 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 11:09 AM
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When I first replaced my JVC RS20 projector with my current JVC RS55, I suddenly noticed more dithering noise on blank color screens than I'd ever notice before. For instance on the blue-screen
background when there is no signal, up close it was swimming with more noise than I ever remember from my RS20. (Though it's possible my memory is incorrect).
Regardless, I do not see such image noise from my viewing distance of about 10 feet, even with a very large picture (e.g. over 10 feet wide).

As for DVDs I've actually been pleasantly surprised, blown away even, at how good many of them look. I keep expecting a really poor experience, but the detail and quality of a decent DVD transfer is very satisfying.
I've even been on something of a DVD binge for the last couple of months. (Though, I don't blow DVDs up to massive sizes, I do find them quite nice at about 105" diag (16:9) or below that size, usually hovering around a 102" size screen).
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post #112 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

True, or just use the process of elimination which is usually the same:

1) Project onto a different screen or the wall temporarily
2) Try a different player and the highest quality source (hence a Bluray)
3) Try a different HDMI cable direct to the source, remove all HDMI AVR's or switches
4) Try changing RGB or YCBCR modes
5) Ensure Gamma is not blown out and highlighting image noise, turn off Sharpening and Processing, etc...
6) Get a pro to visit your house if all else fails, or have the MFR replace the projector unnecessarily smile.gif

etc... etc...

Usually does the trick in these cases where someone reports very strange problems.

In his defense, IMO it is JVC's fault, JVC has created the refurbs themselves by not being thorough and having a good standard questionnaire they should ask all users before asking them to send their projector back. I know if either Zombie or I were running their support department, we'd write up the questions much differently than they ask them. Also, plenty of people sent their PJ's in unnecessarily due to lamp problems on the older units, and that was bad procedure as well.

You would be surprised at how many projectors get returned to manufactures, with nothing wrong with the projector. We would have a bunch ourself, if we did not ask customers to go through testing to try and eliminate the problem. Seems like half the time it is an HDMI problem.

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post #113 of 127 Old 07-14-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

You would be surprised at how many projectors get returned to manufactures, with nothing wrong with the projector. We would have a bunch ourself, if we did not ask customers to go through testing to try and eliminate the problem. Seems like half the time it is an HDMI problem.

Yeah... you have to watch out for those creepy online sales guys, especially the one's the constantly lurk on forums. tongue.giftongue.giftongue.gif




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post #114 of 127 Old 07-15-2013, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BHDavis View Post

And this is with default factory settings on the X35.

This is the source of all your problems right here. No matter what projector (or TV) you buy, the factory default settings are never the correct settings you should watch.

At a very minimum, you need to buy a decent calibration disc and follow its instructions for adjusting your brightness, contrast, sharpness (just turn it all the way off) and colors. Disney WOW is a pretty good, user-friendly calibration disc geared toward beginners:

http://www.amazon.com/Wow-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B00462PTDQ/

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post #115 of 127 Old 07-15-2013, 10:34 AM
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Yeah... you have to watch out for those creepy online sales guys, especially the one's the constantly lurk on forums. tongue.giftongue.giftongue.gif




By the way Jason Turk helped me with an awesome setup in my previous home. Planar projector, panamorph lens, screen etc. Will be ordering another setup from you guys in the future.

Yeah, you would never expect an AVS sales guy to hang out here. smile.gif

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post #116 of 127 Old 07-15-2013, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

This is the source of all your problems right here. No matter what projector (or TV) you buy, the factory default settings are never the correct settings you should watch.

At a very minimum, you need to buy a decent calibration disc and follow its instructions for adjusting your brightness, contrast, sharpness (just turn it all the way off) and colors. Disney WOW is a pretty good, user-friendly calibration disc geared toward beginners:

http://www.amazon.com/Wow-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B00462PTDQ/

Thanks for the link to the calibration disk. I thought I was going to have to find out where I could find someone to do this for me. Now I can try it on my own.

Much appreciated.

BH
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post #117 of 127 Old 07-15-2013, 11:22 AM
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There's also the AVS709 disc, which is free, but probably not as intuitive:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #118 of 127 Old 07-16-2013, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BHDavis View Post

Thanks for the link to the calibration disk. I thought I was going to have to find out where I could find someone to do this for me. Now I can try it on my own.

Much appreciated.

A professional calibration is much more intensive and will get you a more accurate picture. (For one thing, you're not going to be trying to adjust gamma on your own.) However, a disc like Disney WOW is a good starting point and will at least get you in the ballpark of what you should be seeing.

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post #119 of 127 Old 07-18-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BHDavis View Post

These are DVDs. We don't have any BluRays but I could borrow one. But I've never had any issues with DVDs in the past.

We're not talking about my being fussy about not getting a million dollar image here. We're talking serious graininess and fuzzy image edges.

The dealer is going to test the refurb unit I sent back last week and see how it looks in their projection room. I'll know more once he lets me know what he sees.

I do understand that this projector series has an outstanding quality record (other than some complaints about color tuning be less than accurate out of the box).

Thanks again,
BH

when you are investing this kind of money, it's really senseless not to use blurays, sorry.
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post #120 of 127 Old 07-18-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BHDavis View Post


.....The projector sits 14' to 15' from our 100" diagonal Grey Fox II screen. ....
BH

I believe you said in your first post that the screen is a GreyWOLF. I tried one of these some years ago and found it to be extremely grainy. You might want to try a higher quality screen to see if this makes a difference.
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