JVC DLA-X35 not what I had hoped for....... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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My old Benq W9000 projector died about a month ago and so I dug into current offerings to find a replacement.

My first try was the Benq W1070 which got good reviews across the board. However it arrived and I found among other things that it did not have adequate zoom down capacity to fit within my screen which is 15' from my retracting projector lift location.

The W1070 had been my cheap out option. From there I went whole hog and bought a refurb JVC DLA-X30 unit. It had everything I wanted and great reviews.

However the X30 turned out to shoot a grainy image that was fuzzy around all image edges. I called JVC (great tech support) and they told me to return the projector not just for the grainy image but also because it showed as having been registered for warranty already. Refurbs aren't what they used to be.

So I sucked it up and ordered the newer DLA-X35. It came yesterday afternoon and with great anticipation I hooked it up to my Panasonic Blu-Ray player and put in a DVD.

Sheesh.........same grainy image with ghosting around all image edges that I had with the X30.

Another call to JVC tech brought no resolution. We tried a shorter HDMI cable, another source (laptop) and reviewed the projector settings.

I'm at a loss and don't know what else to try. I really would like to keep the X35.......the color are great and the black levels spectacular. However the picture is absolutely awful.

I thought it might be my screen (which gave a beautiful picture on the old Benq W9000) but that is just guessing. It's a Gray Wolf II electric 100" screen. Could it not be up to dealing with the brighter image of the X35? The X35 comes set on Econo mode for bulb life and changing it to the brighter setting didn't seem to affect the grainy picture one way or the other.

Note that I do have the projector set for 1080p input and have tried long and short HDMI cables as well as my wireless HDMI transmitter that I will use once the new projector is installed on the ceiling lift.

At this point I've contacted the dealer and told them that unless they can help me find a solution I'm going to have to return the projector.....which I really would rather not do. It's a spectacularly gran projector other than the picture stinks !!

Any suggestion would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
BH
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post #2 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 02:43 PM
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What movies are you watching that you are seeing this issue? Does it happen with a TV source as well?


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post #3 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 03:21 PM
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That doesn't sound right. Try a good HDTV feed like Zombie suggests.
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Sheesh.........same grainy image with ghosting around all image edges that I had with the X30.

Is the signal going through a reciever or something else like a HDMI switcher, that could be degrading the picture ?

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post #4 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for responding.

I've tried new and older DVDs with no difference. Just stuff off the shelf that we've watched for years on the old W9000. Last night we watched a new Netflix DVD with the same results.

I agree......none of this makes any sense.

I have a Bose V20 system but I've pulled it out of the loop. When JVC tech was on the phone with me we hooked my laptop and then my Blu Ray player right up to the projector with a 6' HDMI cable. I had already tried my wireless HDMI connection as well as a good quality 25' HDMI cable. Again......no improvement.

TV would be difficult to hook up but I guess I could pull a Charter cable box from another room and bring it in by the projector.

Thanks,
BH
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post #5 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 03:44 PM
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Are these DVDs or Blurays?


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post #6 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 03:44 PM
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DVDs - you meant blu-rays, right?

Netflix has 1080p under the name of SuperHD; I saw Korean film, The Host, which was very sharp and has many dark scenes.
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post #7 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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These are DVDs. We don't have any BluRays but I could borrow one. But I've never had any issues with DVDs in the past.

We're not talking about my being fussy about not getting a million dollar image here. We're talking serious graininess and fuzzy image edges.

The dealer is going to test the refurb unit I sent back last week and see how it looks in their projection room. I'll know more once he lets me know what he sees.

I do understand that this projector series has an outstanding quality record (other than some complaints about color tuning be less than accurate out of the box).

Thanks again,
BH
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post #8 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 03:51 PM
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Coming from a DLP, I've noticed on two of their products (JVC DLA-X3 and an X30) that there is a lot of dithering noise within the picture. It looks like dancing noise on solid colors. It's very apparent from a normal seating distance. This is probably what you're seeing and there is little that can be done about it. It's an image processing artifact. Try turning the sharpness, noise reduction and any other detail/image enhancement to 0 (off) in the menus, the noise should look less apparent but still slightly visible.

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post #9 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
DVDs - you meant blu-rays, right?

Netflix has 1080p under the name of SuperHD; I saw Korean film, The Host, which was very sharp and has many dark scenes.

I'm not saying this has anything to do with what you are seeing, but I'm just surprised you had a 1080p projector and you don't watch High Definition sources. I find watching 480p anything is like someone twisting a knife in me - painful. At least compared to HD sources. Wait until you watch that borrowed Blu Ray - everything else will really look bad. eek.gif

Now back to solving your problem...............

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post #11 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 04:31 PM
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That looks like typical macro-blocking which is an artifact of most DVD's. You have 1 of the best 2D displays under $10,000 and it will show the best and worst content that you provide it. (Garbage in / Garbage out).

If you pop in a 1/2 decent bluray, you are likely going to soil yourself. smile.gif

There are much better upscaling players if you have a large DVD collection you don't want to part with. One of the better is the older Oppo DVD player that you can pick up for a decent price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oppo-DV-981HD-DVD-Player-/121138931579?pt=DVD_Players_Recorders&hash=item1c3471677b


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post #12 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everybody. This is great information. I'm no videophile........I just want to have a nice clean image to watch.

I'm much more optimistic now that I've read all your suggestions.

BH
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post #13 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 04:57 PM
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Anything that is non HD will look not so good on a jvc. My benq projectors handle non HD material a lot better than my JVCs. When you play a BD, then the JVCs look excellent.
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post #14 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

That looks like typical macro-blocking which is an artifact of most DVD's. You have 1 of the best 2D displays under $10,000 and it will show the best and worst content that you provide it. (Garbage in / Garbage out).

If you pop in a 1/2 decent bluray, you are likely going to soil yourself. smile.gif

There are much better upscaling players if you have a large DVD collection you don't want to part with. One of the better is the older Oppo DVD player that you can pick up for a decent price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oppo-DV-981HD-DVD-Player-/121138931579?pt=DVD_Players_Recorders&hash=item1c3471677b

It's definitely dithering noise. It's something there that isn't on his DLP projector, otherwise he wouldn't have been surprised by it. I don't know if this same issue is there with the higher end units, but it's certainly there on the low end ones. The DLA-X30 is just as bad as the DLA-X3 was with image noise.

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post #15 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 05:46 PM
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Anything that is non HD will look not so good on a jvc. My benq projectors handle non HD material a lot better than my JVCs. When you play a BD, then the JVCs look excellent.

My Lumis is pretty much that way - ruthlessly true to the source material. The local Hospice / thrift store just got 2 boxes of DVD's last week, since I only watch HD ....................and I got a tax deduction. smile.gif

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post #16 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

It's definitely dithering noise. It's something there that isn't on his DLP projector, otherwise he wouldn't have been surprised by it. I don't know if this same issue is there with the higher end units, but it's certainly there on the low end ones. The DLA-X30 is just as bad as the DLA-X3 was with image noise.

sometimes I think you just buy JVC's just to rag on them..... come on now, did you miss the part where he is using DVD's? Of course they are going to look like crap. Maybe the DLP has a better 480->1080P processor.

if he says the same thing after playing a decent Bluray, then it's a different story.


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post #17 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 06:20 PM
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I keep buying JVC's because I forget exactly how they look. After reading this forum you'd think God himself made them. I'm just pointing out there are issues with them and what he's describing is one of the bigger ones that can easily be seen. I did an A/B side by side comparison last night with various material on the NuVision P2 and the DLA-X30. I'm just pointing out that the X30 (like the X3 before it) has a particularly noisy picture even with all the image processing features turned off.

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post #18 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 06:54 PM
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I think we need more information from the OP before determining what his issue is. At least get some HD content to make sure it's not another issue.

I don't see any objectionable noise artifacts when using a quality source. These look even better in person.

skyfall_jvc.jpg

JVC-RS55-11.jpg

JVC-RS55-8.jpg


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post #19 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 07:01 PM
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You can't discern much from photos. I'm not saying the RS55 has this issue, but the X3 and X30 does. I'm simply saying that on a side-by-side comparison the DLPs I own have a much cleaner looking picture.

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post #20 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think we need more information from the OP before determining what his issue is. At least get some HD content to make sure it's not another issue.

I don't see any objectionable noise artifacts when using a quality source. These look even better in person.

Wow! Are these images from the X35 or RS55/X70?
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post #21 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 07:37 PM
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How big is your screen and more importantly how close are you sitting??
I agree with others.
Put in something like Dark Knight bluray and then report back. smile.gif
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post #22 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by here2rock View Post


Wow! Are these images from the X35 or RS55/X70?

That's an RS55/X70, but I also have an X35 here I am calibrating for a friend. With good source content, it looks nearly as good on my 142" screen. Color gamut on the X35 is very good out of the box, better than previous years.


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post #23 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 07:59 PM
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The Oppo 983 was a flagship DVD player that was known for good upscaling of DVD content to 1080P.

I haven't used this in years, time to dust off some DVD's and see how it looks on this X35.

oppo.jpg


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post #24 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 08:59 PM
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DVDs look outstanding on my X95.

Not sure what you mean by Sd content looking bad.

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post #25 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
DVDs look outstanding on my X95.

Not sure what you mean by Sd content looking bad.

Have you compared them to the same Blu Ray ? wink.gif

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post #26 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 11:38 PM
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my 2cents.

sounds like maybe one of the ways jvc managed to put out such an amazing value with the x35 is by skimping a bit of the upconversion processing?

it's been ages since I've watched a dvd, but just the other week my buddy(who is also a teacher) asked if I wanted to go through the harry potter movies since his class was reading the books and he wanted to preview the movies. we're both on vacation, so what the heck. well we watched the first few at his house cause I was painting my theatre room. I noticed how bad they looked on his old plasma but thought nothing of it. then we watched one at my place, and it still looked really bad, like a 700mb video rip almost. very compressed. turns out they were dvd's, not bd's like he thought (long story). so anyway, those were the only dvd's I've watched on the x35, they did look really bad, but really bad compared to how fantastic 720p and 1080p stuff looks.

I've watch SD cable and it looks pretty good to me. but, I also have my pioneer 1018 receiver set to upconvert to 1080p, so the projector isn't really doing any of that.

before I went too hard on the jvc, i'd try another source that can handle the upconversion. also while your at it, buy a damn BD player biggrin.gif they're like 50bux, and they still play dvd's so it's not like you need to replace your collection, just stop buying new dvd's.

i'd also say there's a bit of personal preference to understand when reading reviews. what somebody sees as 'clean' somebody else sees as 'digital and fake'. I happen to love the smooth, film like look with the jvc. others might take it as not being as sharp or having a 'grainy' image.

either way, the solution/problem seems to be the processing turning a 480p source into a 1080p image. best bet from here is to find a device that does a good job at it so the jvc doesn't have to.

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post #27 of 127 Old 07-11-2013, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Doom View Post

DVDs look outstanding on my X95.

Not sure what you mean by Sd content looking bad.


The source is everything, **** in, **** out.
Why buy an expensive 1080p projector only to feed it with SD content.
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post #28 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 02:11 AM
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I don´t understand why you vant to watch DVD´s on a 1080p PJ when BD look so much better, and if you can afford a X35/95 you can afford a BD player...smile.gif

And all of the JVC models I have tested the last couple of years, including the X90 has the dithering problem Seegs108 is talking about. But it is not seen form seating distance in my cinema(4m from a 3m wide 2.35:1 screen) and they all show beautifult pictures when fed BD, everything will look like crap when fed DVD´s. I have not seen a DVD in my HT since 2006.smile.gif

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post #29 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 02:42 AM
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I don´t understand why you vant to watch DVD´s on a 1080p PJ when BD look so much better, and if you can afford a X35/95 you can afford a BD player...smile.gif

And all of the JVC models I have tested the last couple of years, including the X90 has the dithering problem Seegs108 is talking about. But it is not seen form seating distance in my cinema(4m from a 3m wide 2.35:1 screen) and they all show beautifult pictures when fed BD, everything will look like crap when fed DVD´s. I have not seen a DVD in my HT since 2006.smile.gif

I agree. If you see all the reviews of the JVC projectors, where do you see complaints about dithering noise? I cannot see it from seated at all. I also believe the current generation improved this a bit too. But regardless, the original poster is seeing something MUCH worse than a slight amount of dithering. He has had two different model projectors. It is clear his problem is the source, not the projector. And I don't know about DVDs looking so bad. Yes they don't look as good as BD, but I have some good examples of DVDs that look great too. He has now sent back the projector to be checked, when he could have popped down to a store, picked up a Blu-ray player for less than 100 bucks and a BD to play on it. Lugging these projectors around is heavy and expensive and risky in terms of accidental damage.
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post #30 of 127 Old 07-12-2013, 02:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Again.........thanks for the discussion on the problem.

I do have a Bluray player ......... it's just that we never saw a need to get Bluray disks. We tried one on the BenQ and saw no significant difference from the DVDs. But then the BenQ was 6 or 7 years old and the color wheel was going (probably dirty but never realized it). When the color wheel blew apart it became an issue of what to do. The repair estimate was $700 for the color wheel, lamp ballast and mother board (I now doubt the honesty of that quote as I'm convinced it was only the color wheel and I have one on order I'll put in just to see if I'm right).

My wife has collected hundreds of DVDs over the years so there is quite a collection of nice old films there. If the Bluray disk (which I'll pick up today) looks as good as everyone here says it will then I'll be looking for a better upscaling player. Our Bluray player is a six month old Panasonic that I thought said had good upscaling........but I guess not.

The projector sits 14' to 15' from our 100" diagonal Grey Fox II screen. Our couch sits about 10' from the screen which my wife is now telling me is too close for her so I'll be moving that back another 3' to 5' soon. This is all set up in a large room we just finished and started using last fall. Not a theater room but a good space to watch movies when we pull down the room darkening shades.

As I said I'm no video purist. I just want to be able to look at the screen and go "wow......that looks amazing". I was always able to do that with DVDs and the Benq W9000. Hopefully the same will be true once I pop in a Bluray disk.

BH
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