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post #1 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I have had a JVC RS-1 for the past 5 years. I've really enjoyed it, but have the upgrade bug, so I'm starting to read up on the current projectors. My set up is a 92" inch diagonal Da-lite Cinemavision screen, and I sit about 10 feet away - there is some ambient light during the day but still watchable (only really use during the day is during football season, when I do wish it were a bit brighter). My first question is: how much brighter will the newer JVC X55 be than my RS-1? I see the lumens are 1200 vs. 700 for my RS-1 - will that be a huge difference? Also, is there a big difference between the RS-1 and the newer JVC's regarding overall picture quality? The one thing that I have noticed with my RS-1 is the way it handles fast motion isn't too great - kind of blurry. Has that improved on the JVC's much? I'm also interested in the upcoming model from Sony, the HW55ES.

TIA for any advice!!!
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post #2 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 02:08 PM
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It's going to be 58% brighter or 28 footlamberts versus 48 footlamberts. The newer JVCs are a little bit better with motion, but not by a huge amount. Sony just recently completely overhauled their LCOS chips and they handle motion fantastically and is a large improvement over what JVC's LCOS panels do. The new Sony (and the current HW50ES) is also going to be brighter than what the JVCs are putting out. If I were in your shoes, and was worried about motion handling and light output, I'd definitely check out the Sony HW50ES or wait for the HW55ES to come out this fall/early next year.
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The newer JVCs are a little bit better with motion, but not by a huge amount.

How did you measure an RS1 vs. an RS46 for motion in a direct A/B setup? I'm looking for a solid, objective way of measuring this since the previously accepted FPD benchmark is identical between the RS46 and HW50.

To the OP, the RS46 and HW50 are basically the same calibrated lumen output. RS46 is more naturally sharp, but at only 92", you won't likely need the reality creation turned on.
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post #4 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 03:16 PM
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We came to the conclusion that the test isn't the best judge with how all types of motion look during 24p playback. I demoed a HW50ES for about 5 hours with some familiar content I had previously seen with both DLP and D-ILA technologies. Motion looks much better and I think many will agree with me. That is the final judgement call. It's all about how people perceive the motion.

As far as those foot lambert numbers go I was just showing him how much brighter those two numbers he had would look against one another. They have to the potential to be that bright if you don't care for accurate color.
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post #5 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 03:19 PM
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On a 92in, its probably best to get the rs46/x35. Calibrated lumens are similar to the HW50, as Zombie stated. I can't really compare the two tho. I have seen the HW30 at best buy and it wasn't setup properly. As you know the jvc throws a great picture. It should be an upgrade from the RS1 because of the brightness, 3D, slightly better contrast, plus the bulb is better as of late. If you could hold out until late September to hear about what new jvc has to offer, it might be worth it. Also, the new Sony HW55 is going out and maybe you can decide between the two. If you follow the forum, you know Zombie always get his hands on them and provides the best comparisons here. However, if buying now is best, I would suggest the rs46/x35 because its cheaper than the HW50
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post #6 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 03:34 PM
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motion discussions always feel like a nebulous topic since no one can agree on a test.

The HW55 is worth waiting to see which features it has. Maybe it's truly the VW95 'v2.0' that was on my wish list after the HW50 review. Better lens and RC was on the order. Ideally they would allow more tweaking of the RC controls.
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ Thanks for the info, guys. I'm in no real hurry so I'll just wait till the new models from JVC & Sony are introduced at CEDIA. Right now I'm trying to re-arrange my front 3 channels & gear rack to accommodate a bigger screen. Do you think it's worth it to go from my 92" to a 96", or possibly 100"? I sit about 10 ft. away. My walls are dark but my ceiling is white - if I do change the screen, should I look at white or gray screen with either the JVC or Sony?
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post #8 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 04:57 PM
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A 100" screen fits your seating distance best and both of these new projectors will handle this size with more than enough lumens.
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 05:11 PM
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Whats your throw distance and whats your environment like? If its a darker environment and light control, I would go with a white screen
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Throw distance is a little over 10 feet . Walls are darker but ceiling white. Room has windows, but I don't watch movies or TV during the day - except for football.
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post #11 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 06:07 PM
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The RS1 with a new lamp was rated ~700 lumens in best mode, the RS46 will be around 900, better, but not a huge difference. HW50 averages ~950.

The Epson 5020 can be calibrated to a solid 1400 lumens which is nice for ambient light viewing.

The alternative option is swapping out the screen for one with more power. A screen like the dalite HP works great with ambient light but you have to place the projector near eye level for maximum gain.
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The RS1 with a new lamp was rated ~700 lumens in best mode, the RS46 will be around 900, better, but not a huge difference. HW50 averages ~950.

The Epson 5020 can be calibrated to a solid 1400 lumens which is nice for ambient light viewing.

The alternative option is swapping out the screen for one with more power. A screen like the dalite HP works great with ambient light but you have to place the projector near eye level for maximum gain.

Was looking at the HP - how much of the benefit would I lose if the projector is mounted even with top of screen? Is it still worth doing?
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 06:33 PM
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I have a HP screen like Zombie has. You won't get the full benefit, but you'll still get some of it. One thing to think about if you go with a HP screen and you're going to be mounting close to your head is noise coming from a projector. The HW50ES is one of the quietest projectors I've ever heard, the JVCs are no slouch either but the Sony sounds as if it's almost not on in it's normal lamp mode. So if you choose to rearrange things and do a shelf mount close to your head for the HP screen, noise is of great concern. While I much prefer DLP projectors there are VERY few that are quiet enough to mount right behind you. The way I had things set up the projector was roughly 10" from my head behind me and all but my NuVision ProVu P2 were too loud for quiet scenes with dialog when mounted in that position. The LEDs give this DLP machine a distinct advantage, plus the bezel is HUGE which makes for an easier acoustic dampening situation. That's one thing DLP projector manufacturers really need to catch up on. Most LCOS machines (like ones from Sony and JVC) give you that "is thing even on?" feeling.
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 08:24 PM
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With a 92" screen and an X55, why would he need a HP screen? That would give him a ridicules amount of Foot Lamberts. With the X55 from 12' throw he would be looking at a minimum, low lamp iris closed of around 19 FL with a 1.0 gain screen and around 38 FL with high lamp. With that size screen, it looks to me like he would be ahead to get something like a Stewart Cima Tiburon 0.92 gray screen. That would help with black levels during the day, but not hurt him too much as far as brightness goes. He would still get above 17 FL in low lamp with iris closed fully and above 34 FL in high lamp. As others have posted, I would probably go with a 100" and still do the gray based screen to help with day time viewing. OP'er, sent you a PM. smile.gif

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post #15 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 08:46 PM
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The X30 I have with the iris at -15 is kind of overkill with the brightness on my 92" HP screen. I agree, Mike. The only time you want to use a HP screen is if you don't have enough lumens for a unity gain screen or something similar. There are setup obstacles and a few drawbacks with the screen material as well. The screen adds a little noise to the image due to the glass beads they spray on. The older HP 2.8 gain is visibly better in this regard, though.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-14-2013, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

^^^ Thanks for the info, guys. I'm in no real hurry so I'll just wait till the new models from JVC & Sony are introduced at CEDIA. Right now I'm trying to re-arrange my front 3 channels & gear rack to accommodate a bigger screen. Do you think it's worth it to go from my 92" to a 96", or possibly 100"? I sit about 10 ft. away. My walls are dark but my ceiling is white - if I do change the screen, should I look at white or gray screen with either the JVC or Sony?

this is just my limited experience, but I've got the x35 shining on a 100" grey screen with .8 gain and it's almost too bright for me still. i'm sure a white screen would be just fine, but until the blacks are perfect, I think i'm always going to choose darker blacks over brighter whites. imperfect black is just much more obvious to me than grey whites(as long as there isn't something obviously white right beside it).

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-15-2013, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With a 92" screen and an X55, why would he need a HP screen?

One reason is that he could stop the iris down all the way and actually get the full advertised CR.

Also the HP's several other benefits besides brightness.

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post #18 of 25 Old 07-15-2013, 01:27 PM
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But then again it has a bunch of negatives just like anything else. Its biggest negative to me is the screen never disappears except when all light is off including the projector.. like many other screens except for a few one is always aware that one os watching on a screen.

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post #19 of 25 Old 07-15-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

One reason is that he could stop the iris down all the way and actually get the full advertised CR.

Also the HP's several other benefits besides brightness.

On a 1.0 gain screen, low lamp and iris closed all the way, he is looking at 19FL now. With a HP he would be in the upper 30's, black levels would suffer. We are talking a 92" screen here. OP'er has been advise to at least look at a 100" screen.

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post #20 of 25 Old 07-15-2013, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

But then again it has a bunch of negatives just like anything else. Its biggest negative to me is the screen never disappears except when all light is off including the projector.. like many other screens except for a few one is always aware that one os watching on a screen.

What are the few screens where you aren't aware you are watching a screen? With my Da-lite Cinemavision, I can always see the screen pattern on large areas of a light color. I'd be interested to know how much of this is inherent in my screen, or is it my JVC RS-1, as I heard somewhere they were regarded as "noisy". I have seen nothing to reference it to.

Thanks for all the responses!
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post #21 of 25 Old 07-15-2013, 03:00 PM
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My candidates would be the Stewart Snomatt 100 which I own and the Da-lite JKP Affinity 0.9 and 1.1

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post #22 of 25 Old 07-15-2013, 03:19 PM
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My candidates would be the Stewart Snomatt 100 which I own and the Da-lite JKP Affinity 0.9 and 1.1

+1

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post #23 of 25 Old 07-15-2013, 03:36 PM
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Old folk song by Jackie Washington, if 1 and 1 and 20 make a million we will see that day come round.

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post #24 of 25 Old 07-16-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Its biggest negative to me is the screen never disappears except when all light is off including the projector..

Some say that, but for many of us it disappears just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

On a 1.0 gain screen, low lamp and iris closed all the way, he is looking at 19FL now. With a HP he would be in the upper 30's, black levels would suffer. We are talking a 92" screen here.

I thought he had an RS1 which IIRC has no iris.

Anyway, those numbers yield 476 L, which seems I believe is higher than you get with a fully closed iris; seems like I remember a cine4home test of the RS20, or maybe even later generation, that was a bit less than 300 L w/closed iris.

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post #25 of 25 Old 07-16-2013, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Some say that, but for many of us it disappears just fine.
I thought he had an RS1 which IIRC has no iris.

Anyway, those numbers yield 476 L, which seems I believe is higher than you get with a fully closed iris; seems like I remember a cine4home test of the RS20, or maybe even later generation, that was a bit less than 300 L w/closed iris.

In the first post, he was asking about JVC X55 and how bright it would be on his 92" screen compared to his RS1. Someone suggested an HP screen and I said that would be too bright. I gave Foot Lamberts of what he would have right now with his 1.0 gain screen and an X55, low lamp iris closed and what he would get with 92" HP and X55 in low lamp iris closed.

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