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post #1 of 19 Old 07-15-2013, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi -

I've been reading for a few weeks now on projectors as I'm preparing to buy one for my new house.

I've had a question for quite some time that continues to linger and would like to finally put it to bed.

I think I've read that the more the projector has to zoom, the less life you'll get out of your lamp. Can someone tell me if you zoom more when the throw distance is higher or lower?

Epson 5020 throw ratio is 1.34 – 2.87, so for a 96" (8 ft) screen, the shortest throw is 10.72 ft and the longest is 22.96 ft.

So in my example, I'm assuming that if the throw is 10.72 ft, the zoom would be at it's least and therefore have higher light (FTL?), which would allow for ECO mode and therefore save on lamp replacement costs. Is my assumption correct? Or is it the complete opposite?

Thanks.

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post #2 of 19 Old 07-15-2013, 01:02 PM
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Your lens has a lower effective f stop at short throw than at long throw. This is because more of the lens diameter is used at shorter throws than longer throws. Think of it as a wider water pipe at short throws. The lower the effective f stop number, the more efficient the lens is at transmitting light. Depending on the particular projector, short throw might give you about 25 to 30.% more light thus enabling you to use low lamp or eco mode and still have enough light. So your understanding is Keerect!
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-15-2013, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome, thank you!

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post #4 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 02:03 PM
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keep in mind that projector is a light cannon, and if you aren't using it in ambient light, the longer throw will give you better picture quality through improved contrast.

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post #5 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

keep in mind that projector is a light cannon, and if you aren't using it in ambient light, the longer throw will give you better picture quality through improved contrast.

Yes it can be a light cannon, but several other projectors beat it in best image mode.

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post #6 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 04:47 PM
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guys. long throw gives you better in categories other than contrast due to with the right use of lens shift using the sweet spot of the lens. My anwer was limited to the question asked about maximizing light output by set up as a way of getting longer use out of a bulb.

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post #7 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Very helpful answers. Thanks everyone.

The dealer I've been talking with recommended a throw of around 15', with a 110" diagonal screen. My seating distance from the screen will be around 11'.

I'll mostly be watching the projector at night, or during the day I'm planning to have something (not quite sure what yet) to block the light from my egressed window.

With these measurements and viewing habits, will there be too much light from the 6020? I found on projector central that showed the light measurement for my measurements using the 6020. The number was 19 fL.
1) For a new bulb watching 2d content, is that too high, or just about right?
2) For a new bulb watching 3d content, is that too high, or just about right?
3) For an older bulb watching 2d content, is that too high, or just about right?
4) For an older bulb watching 3d content, is that too high, or just about right?

I'm asking because I'm kind of also thinking about the JVC DLA-X30 (14 fL with my measurements) or Sony HW50ES (16fL with my measurements) projectors, but I know their lumens are much lower than the 6020. I'm not sure which one would be best for my setup and viewing conditions.

**EDITED** - Added information found on projector central and model #'s.

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post #8 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 06:00 PM
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You have now opened the flood gates. Let the opines roll. smile.gif

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post #9 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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haha! So what is your opinion?

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post #10 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 06:53 PM
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16fl is about what a theater is, and as your bulb dims with age I think 19fl is fine. You didn't mention the gain of the screen which will affect your numbers as well. A little brighter is generally better for 3d due to the loss of lumens with the glasses.
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-16-2013, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnabq View Post

16fl is about what a theater is, and as your bulb dims with age I think 19fl is fine. You didn't mention the gain of the screen which will affect your numbers as well. A little brighter is generally better for 3d due to the loss of lumens with the glasses.

So I'm assuming that projector centrals calculator is showing the fL's at full lamp power. What's the decrease in fL's in eco mode? Will those measurements be too low to consistently use eco mode?

Does your answer also mean that I should not be considering the JVC or Sony models with my measurements at the expected fL's?

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post #12 of 19 Old 07-17-2013, 12:58 AM
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Try the Epson 5010 template on this calc, pretty close to the 6020 and see for yourself. http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/ You can see differences at several hour ranges. Hopefully his new calc will be done real soon with the updated templates etc. As to the jvc/sony question, nope, wasn't saying that at all. I was just offering thoughts to consider. All 3 good pj's, but you may need to consider a little higher gain screen, to help overcome some lower numbers.
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-17-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Yes it can be a light cannon, but several other projectors beat it in best image mode.

true, but if you're watching with ambient light, does 'best mode' really even come into play.

my thinking was he could use a movie mode for viewing under ideal conditions. and then use a brighter mode for ambient light viewing.

this way he still gets the BEST dark room image the projector is capable of, and a useable ambient light image as well.

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post #14 of 19 Old 07-17-2013, 01:09 PM
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So, i had a similar question, which I posted separately then deleted as I thought I understood the answer. But now I am concerned again. I have a 12" throw to a 92" diagonal setup (still setting up) and the output from Projector Central calculator was 32 fl image brightness (screen gain 1.2). Projector zoom at 1.5. I presume this is way to bright then and I will have to turn down the lamp significantly. I will be using the Panasonic PT-AE8000.

Does this sound correct?

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post #15 of 19 Old 07-17-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnabq View Post

Try the Epson 5010 template on this calc, pretty close to the 6020 and see for yourself. http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/ You can see differences at several hour ranges. Hopefully his new calc will be done real soon with the updated templates etc. As to the jvc/sony question, nope, wasn't saying that at all. I was just offering thoughts to consider. All 3 good pj's, but you may need to consider a little higher gain screen, to help overcome some lower numbers.

That's a very interesting calculator. It actually showed me that my assumption was wrong. The shorter the throw, MORE zoom is needed, which increases lamp life. That calculator showed that with the lamp on high on the 5010, the brightness is 20.8 fL and drops to 10 fL, which is below the recommended levels (12 - 16) at 2000 hours (50% of lamp life).

It's interesting, however, that the JVC RS45 (not X35) has lower lumens (1,300) compared to the 5010 (2,400 lumens), however at all hour usages the JVC produces more fL's.

For example, the JVC with the lamp on high, the brightness is 26.1 fL at 100%, then dips to 13 fL at 2,000 (or 50%) hours. That's 5.3 fL's more than the 5010 at 100% lamp life, and 3 fL's more than the 5010 at 50% lamp life.

How is that possible? I'm assuming that the number that REALLY matters is the fL (20.8 for Epson vs 26.1 for JVC) and not the overall lumens (2,400 for Epson vs 1,300 for JVC).

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post #16 of 19 Old 07-17-2013, 05:54 PM
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Just fyi, here is the thread for how his new calc is coming along. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471160/first-look-web-calculator-0-25
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post #17 of 19 Old 07-17-2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

That's a very interesting calculator. It actually showed me that my assumption was wrong. The shorter the throw, MORE zoom is needed, which increases lamp life. That calculator showed that with the lamp on high on the 5010, the brightness is 20.8 fL and drops to 10 fL, which is below the recommended levels (12 - 16) at 2000 hours (50% of lamp life).

It's interesting, however, that the JVC RS45 (not X35) has lower lumens (1,300) compared to the 5010 (2,400 lumens), however at all hour usages the JVC produces more fL's.

For example, the JVC with the lamp on high, the brightness is 26.1 fL at 100%, then dips to 13 fL at 2,000 (or 50%) hours. That's 5.3 fL's more than the 5010 at 100% lamp life, and 3 fL's more than the 5010 at 50% lamp life.

How is that possible? I'm assuming that the number that REALLY matters is the fL (20.8 for Epson vs 26.1 for JVC) and not the overall lumens (2,400 for Epson vs 1,300 for JVC).

that's because the jvc doesn't have as aggressive of 'torch mode' as the Epson does. at normal calibrated settings, the jvc will be brighter. but the Epson has the ability to run at a much brighter setting at the sacrifice of picture quality.

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post #18 of 19 Old 07-17-2013, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifibitn View Post

So, i had a similar question, which I posted separately then deleted as I thought I understood the answer. But now I am concerned again. I have a 12" throw to a 92" diagonal setup (still setting up) and the output from Projector Central calculator was 32 fl image brightness (screen gain 1.2). Projector zoom at 1.5. I presume this is way to bright then and I will have to turn down the lamp significantly. I will be using the Panasonic PT-AE8000.

Does this sound correct?

all I can say is that according to the calculator on projector central my current projector/screen combo (jvc x35 and .8 gain 100" screen at about 19') should be giving me about 23ftl(I have no idea if this is assuming eco or normal lamp, etc) and I find the picture more than bright enough with the iris closed to the dimmest setting and lamp in eco mode.

I can only imagine 32ftl would be acceptable for 3D content, and even then it might be too bright for anybody not used to watching LED TV's set to dynamic.

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post #19 of 19 Old 07-18-2013, 06:10 AM
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Way too much concern here re one parameter of PQ. The bulb will quickly dim and your eyes will adjust to whatever brightness is put out. Many other factors of PQ to consider. Is there one right answer or one best. Probably not. It will depend on how one prioritizes and weighs various aspects of picture quality. screen material choice will affect things greatly too and one should not glibly increase screen gain to reach some magic brightness level. The room and viewing environment are more important reasons for going to a higher gain. Low gain (1.0) is best if one has an ideal room and viewing environment. I hae written so much about the various factors I find it painful to waste time reiterating it . Please call me if you want to discuss all this, Or give Mike G. at AVS a call.

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