Digital projection cine 1000 led discussion - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 317 Old 08-05-2013, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I am really looking forward to the reports from the show on this one, I think if it is bright enough for most screens it will be a winner, at least for me anyways:D




http://www.digitalprojection.com/BrowseProjectors/SeriesList/ProjectorList/ProjectorDetail/tabid/87/ProjectorId/313/MarketTypeId/10/Default.aspx
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post #2 of 317 Old 08-05-2013, 05:40 PM
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Me too!

Member getgray was talking about getting a demo unit for review.
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post #3 of 317 Old 08-05-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Me too!

Member getgray was talking about getting a demo unit for review.


I'm not sure how soon that will happen but I will let Scott chime in on that!biggrin.gif
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post #4 of 317 Old 08-05-2013, 06:45 PM
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post #5 of 317 Old 08-05-2013, 10:02 PM
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Saw this on PC a couple day ago I think but dismissed it due to no 3D and a street price estimated @ $11k!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Digital_Projection-M-Vision_Cine_LED_1000.htm

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_7722.pdf
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post #6 of 317 Old 08-05-2013, 10:16 PM
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for the uninitiated, what's the big deal with this one? seems like on paper every led/laser projector is about the same, so it's hard to tell when they've finally released something 'home theatre' quality.

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post #7 of 317 Old 08-05-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

for the uninitiated, what's the big deal with this one? seems like on paper every led/laser projector is about the same, so it's hard to tell when they've finally released something 'home theatre' quality.

There are already several "home theater quality" single chip DLP LED based projectors out there. The big deal with this one is that it's able to put out more light. My NuVision puts out around 550 lumens which is only suitable for modest screen sizes or larger screen sizes with the use of a higher gain screen. This product allows for use with larger screens.

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post #8 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

for the uninitiated, what's the big deal with this one? seems like on paper every led/laser projector is about the same, so it's hard to tell when they've finally released something 'home theatre' quality.

Unfortunately it's pretty easy to tell when an LED machine is "home theater quality", if the MSRP is over $10k then it is. There's basically two classes that I've seen, well make that three, there's the Pico projectors (I've got one of those to play with), they're a nice toy, there's a few business-class ones around, and then there's the Home Theater ones from Sim2, Runco, NuVision (Vivitek), DPI, and they're all in a different price class.

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post #9 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

for the uninitiated, what's the big deal with this one? seems like on paper every led/laser projector is about the same, so it's hard to tell when they've finally released something 'home theatre' quality.

 

Home theater quality with improved LED's.   Stated specification of 1000 lumens which should bring it in around 700 lumens calibrated to D65 yielding a brighter picture and or supporting larger screens.

 

Single chip LED DLP's have the possibility to display color characteristics of a three chip machine without chip convergence errors.  That's the big deal... smile.gif

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post #10 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 01:09 PM
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ok, so i'm still lost, as I said 'on paper' they all look pretty good.

Panasonic has one with over 3000lumens that 'sounds like it should good'. http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_rw430u_projector_review.htm?page=Performance

so is this one that much better than this Panasonic(I think the one in the review isn't 1080p, but they did say there was a 1080p model coming). the panny is also a DLP

on paper, it looks better...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-RZ470UW.htm

20000:1 contrast vs 10000:1
3500lumens vs 1000
$3600 street price vs ??

I would assume blacks are still not quite there, but since neither spec sheets really indicates that, I figured i'd ask.

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post #11 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

ok, so i'm still lost, as I said 'on paper' they all look pretty good.

Panasonic has one with over 3000lumens that 'sounds like it should good'. http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_rw430u_projector_review.htm?page=Performance

so is this one that much better than this Panasonic(I think the one in the review isn't 1080p, but they did say there was a 1080p model coming). the panny is also a DLP

on paper, it looks better...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-RZ470UW.htm

20000:1 contrast vs 10000:1
3500lumens vs 1000
$3600 street price vs ??

I would assume blacks are still not quite there, but since neither spec sheets really indicates that, I figured i'd ask.

It's a Panasonic, it'll never come anywhere close to the specs in a usable (calibrated) mode.

Kraine reviewed here:
http://translate.google.fr/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audiovideohd.fr%2Ftests%2F362-Panasonic%2520PT-RZ470-0.html

If I'm reading it right 755 Lumens, with ~9000:1 contrast (I don't buy that that's "Native"), and not very good color. You'd probably need a Radiance to dial it in.

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post #12 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

ok, so i'm still lost, as I said 'on paper' they all look pretty good.

Panasonic has one with over 3000lumens that 'sounds like it should good'. http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_rw430u_projector_review.htm?page=Performance

so is this one that much better than this Panasonic(I think the one in the review isn't 1080p, but they did say there was a 1080p model coming). the panny is also a DLP

on paper, it looks better...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-RZ470UW.htm

20000:1 contrast vs 10000:1
3500lumens vs 1000
$3600 street price vs ??

I would assume blacks are still not quite there, but since neither spec sheets really indicates that, I figured i'd ask.

On paper, communism looks good. tongue.gif

Contrast and Brightness specs should always be taken w/ a grain of salt.

If you look at the stated weight, the DP is 50% heavier. That doesn't always mean something, well maybe in the Audio section.

Also, I imagine the Lens used (and there are 3 options - fixed, short or long throw) is of much higher quality.
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post #13 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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On paper, communism looks good. tongue.gif

Lol:D
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post #14 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 06:04 PM
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If this is at CEDIA, I'll spend some sweet quality time with it and check it out. DP makes absolutely awesome projectors. Built like tanks, with excellent optics.

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post #15 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that's the kind of responses I was hoping for:D. Thx Craig
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post #16 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 06:13 PM
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I wonder why they don't update these to HDMI 1.4 and offer 3D as an option?
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post #17 of 317 Old 08-06-2013, 06:26 PM
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I wonder why they don't update these to HDMI 1.4 and offer 3D as an option?

Use two - one for each eye.......... cool.gif

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post #18 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 10:32 AM
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guess I didn't make myself clear, my fault. I was using the Panasonic as an example of how the cine doesn't look 'special' on paper. and that was why I was asking. like most things, specs on paper don't mean a whole lot, I realize that. I was just trying to figure out what I was supposed to be excited about an LED projector with 10000:1 contrast and 1000 lumens when there are already many that make such claims.

the ASSUMPTION was that it actually produces good blacks, and a good overall PQ, but you know what they say about assuming. so I wanted to ask for clarification. thanks

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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

guess I didn't make myself clear, my fault. I was using the Panasonic as an example of how the cine doesn't look 'special' on paper. and that was why I was asking. like most things, specs on paper don't mean a whole lot, I realize that. I was just trying to figure out what I was supposed to be excited about an LED projector with 10000:1 contrast and 1000 lumens when there are already many that make such claims.

I guess here's my thoughts. Everything I've read about just about every "high end" LED projector (Sim2 Mico, TruVue Vango, Runco, etc) is that they are something special, like 3-chip DLP. Supposedly they have 3-chip DLP quality color (even without using the inaccurate super-wide LED gamut), and being high end machines (DC4, better light engine designs, etc) they have better contrast, and better lenses. The thought of being able to have one of them makes me interested (Sim2's are way out of my price range and I'm not sure a Runco is bright enough).

Though honestly I'm hesitant to buy anything now, not with rumors that 4K DLPs are coming in the next year or two.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #20 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 02:47 PM
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You really need to see one then to decide. Seems that most folks that bought Vangos or SIM LED projectors just disappeared from the forum here - no doubt enjoying their projectors for the next 20,000 hours.............smile.gifeek.gif

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i'm watching LED/laser projectors for two reasons

they get cheap enough and good enough to use as a secondary projector for tv, gaming, etc. so I can save my 'bulb hours' for movies and critical viewing.

they get good enough to replace a bulb based projector full time.

to be honest, i'm very happy with my current projector, so i'm more interested in a sub-1500 dollar 'good enough' projector.

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post #22 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 03:00 PM
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Frankly for your first point (secondary projector) I just wouldn't worry about it, you can buy quite a lot of lamps (couple years worth) for $1500, and you get to enjoy your "better" projector the whole time.

As for your second point, they're already there, in fact, the good ones already surpass just about everything but 3-chip DLP and probably only lack there in light output. Only issue is the price. It will be interesting to see how the Panasonic and Optoma's do, and this Cine 1000 if it's MSRP is $10k.

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post #23 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 03:01 PM
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I'm waiting for a really bright high end LED 4K projector, with 20K - 30K hour usable life. Cost doesn't so much bother me, as this could be a person's projector for 15 - 20 years. Flip on and off anytime like a TV. If you watched it 2 hours a day, 365 days a year, your wouldn't reach 20,000 hours for 27 years. eek.gif

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I'm waiting for a really bright high end LED 4K projector, with 20K - 30K hour usable life. Cost doesn't so much bother me, as this could be a person's projector for 15 - 20 years. Flip on and off anytime like a TV. If you watched it 2 hours a day, 365 days a year, your wouldn't reach 20,000 hours for 27 years. eek.gif

Why not double stack 2 cine 1000?
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post #25 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess here's my thoughts. Everything I've read about just about every "high end" LED projector (Sim2 Mico, TruVue Vango, Runco, etc) is that they are something special, like 3-chip DLP. Supposedly they have 3-chip DLP quality color (even without using the inaccurate super-wide LED gamut), and being high end machines (DC4, better light engine designs, etc) they have better contrast, and better lenses. The thought of being able to have one of them makes me interested (Sim2's are way out of my price range and I'm not sure a Runco is bright enough).

Though honestly I'm hesitant to buy anything now, not with rumors that 4K DLPs are coming in the next year or two.


4 k dlp pjs are going to be very expensive, the chips are bigger therefore they will need a bigger lens and larger case to hold it all. Look at all the .95 3 chip Dlps they start at 35k:eek:
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post #26 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 06:15 PM
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Only time will tell. We can re-visit this subject in 4 years. I highly doubt I'll replace my current projector before then.

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When you do I'll gladly take your Lumis. biggrin.gif

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post #28 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 06:23 PM
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Oh no, I was planning in being buried with it inside my SVS cylinder sub ( a nice if a bit snug sarcophagus ) - a perfect send off for a home theater nut like me...................eek.gif

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post #29 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 06:48 PM
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4 k dlp pjs are going to be very expensive, the chips are bigger therefore they will need a bigger lens and larger case to hold it all. Look at all the .95 3 chip Dlps they start at 35k:eek:

Oh, no doubt. It's not like I expect to see something out soon at "reasonable" prices. I figure if we see 4K DLP next year, it will be 3chip something like a 4K Lumis, with the nominal $25k+ price tag. Maybe the year after that we'll see something under $20k.

My thought is less about being able to get a 4K DLP soon, and more that now that we know it's coming (which is a lot better outlook than not too long ago), I don't think it would be "prudent" (just thinking personally here) to get something as high end as a Cine 1000 that's not 4K, especially when I've got such a nice machine already.

I'm getting (have gotten) a different outlook on spending a lot on projectors. I think I went through 3 projectors (Toshiba MT700, InFocus IN76, BenQ W5000) in less than three years. Then I made the leap to something "high end", my Planar 8150, which even though I got a great deal, it was quite a bit more expensive than any of the prior machines. Despite that, on a cost/hr I'm sure it's by far the best value, I've had my 8150 for almost 3 years now I think, and it's looking like I'll probably have it another couple years. (Well except if maybe the HW100ES turns out to be nearly as special as the VW1000ES is wink.gif)

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post #30 of 317 Old 08-07-2013, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I guess here's my thoughts. Everything I've read about just about every "high end" LED projector (Sim2 Mico, TruVue Vango, Runco, etc) is that they are something special, like 3-chip DLP. Supposedly they have 3-chip DLP quality color (even without using the inaccurate super-wide LED gamut), and being high end machines (DC4, better light engine designs, etc) they have better contrast, and better lenses. The thought of being able to have one of them makes me interested (Sim2's are way out of my price range and I'm not sure a Runco is bright enough).

Though honestly I'm hesitant to buy anything now, not with rumors that 4K DLPs are coming in the next year or two.

I am not sure about those rumours.
Someone on here mentioned that the current 4K DLP chips are only licensed to be used by Christie, NEC and Barco. Hence why the Sim2 4K model is essentially a Christie with different software. Unless this deal expires or changes in some way, a redesigned 4K DLP chip by TI may be the only way we see a consumer single-chip model. Then you have to ask, will TI want to invest the R&D time and money on developing a new chip? TI probably makes a lot more money from low end DLP for data projectors or 3-chip 4K for digital cinema.

fierce_gt - if you are looking for a reason to be excited about this then I can say the Sim2 M150 was very impressive at CEDIA last year for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. Also DIgital Projection, apart from using high quality components tend to be pretty honest with their advertised lumens. For example their first gen LED is advertised at 600 lumens, not too far from what people have measured so a 'real' or very close 1000 lumens would quite an improvement

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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