BenQ W7000 to Sony HW50 ? - AVS Forum
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I currently have a BenQ W7000 paired with a Seymour 125" wide 2.37 AR. Details on my set up are in my sig. The original reasons why I selected this projector was for the lumens, sharpness and the "DLP look." I have also added a Darbee Darblet and with basic greyscale calibration, I have been happy but not ecstatic. What has been bothering me more and more lately are scenes where an object is sun lit and the picture significantly loses the contrast and pop (i.e. sample screenshot of Tony Stark ] . I am strictly 2D blu ray film content .. don't care about 3D or gaming on the projector. I don't really watch sports on the projector either.

I knew going in that the black levels were not in the same league as the the current Epson 5020UB, Sony HW50ES, JVC RS46 & above but i rationalized that the W7K brightness and sharpness were the most important factors for me. For the most part this is still true but I find I am wanting to close the gap on the black level performance and am willing to trade off a bit for this especially now with the Reality creation feature on the Sony.

Two days ago, I was at Best Buy Magnolia and they had what I think was an Epson 5020UB on an SI (I think) Black diamond. Now, I know BB Magnolia is not the best place for a reference demo but still the 5020 black levels and sharpness were pretty impressive. Dust blob anecdotes still scare me away from Epson so it got me thinking about the Sony HW50ES. I am not looking at the JVCs as I am bit apprehensive about the perceived bulb issues of the RS40 and besides that ..IIRC, the lumens I want to get above or close to 20ft-L requires "high mode" and I really want to run in ECO mode .

IIRC, after calibration, the Sony HW50ES will yield about ~1000 lumens. --> 1000 = X ft-L * ( (125" x 53" )/ 144 ) / 1 -> ~ 21.7 ft-L ? Not sure if my math is right here as I am using an A-lens so not sure if I should be using the 16x9 area.. but my point is, it seems the HW50 lumens after calibration should be more than adequate ?

My other questions

1) Any BenQ W6000 or W7000 users (or any DLP owners) upgrade to Sony HW50 and have any regrets?

2) I currently use a chief mount set up as shown here . Anyone know what part(s) I will need to replace ? Not sure if I will need a longer pole. Also can the Chief mount pole be in the same location?


3) Worthwhile to wait for HW55 for possible price drop on HW50 ?
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:17 AM
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What about the JVC's, but I'd say the Sony hw50 is better than the Epson if you want to spend the extra money.


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Old 08-08-2013, 11:26 AM
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I own both the W7000 and the HW50. They are both good projectors, but the Sony is more balanced (no real weakness) and in my opinion better for 2D viewing. You are right, the HW50 cannot compete with the excellent native sharpness of the W7000. But its black level and contrast is far superior compared to the W7000. In terms of brightness the max brightness of the Sony is with 1700 lumen slightly lower, however it has one of the highest calibrated brightness out there, and even its dynamic mode at 1700 lumen does look far better than most of the competitors (with are often very green in brightest modes). Another advantage of the HW50 is its excellent IRIS and the very low noise (even in high lamp mode). I generally use the HW50 for 2D viewing and sometimes for 3D viewing. The W7000 I only use for 3D vieweing (no crosstalk and no flicker). If you have more questions to the comparison of both projectors feel free to ask.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quack724 View Post

Hi, I currently have a BenQ W7000 paired with a Seymour 125" wide 2.37 AR. Details on my set up are in my sig. The original reasons why I selected this projector was for the lumens, sharpness and the "DLP look." I have also added a Darbee Darblet and with basic greyscale calibration, I have been happy but not ecstatic. What has been bothering me more and more lately are scenes where an object is sun lit and the picture significantly loses the contrast and pop (i.e. sample screenshot of Tony Stark ] . I am strictly 2D blu ray film content .. don't care about 3D or gaming on the projector. I don't really watch sports on the projector either.

I knew going in that the black levels were not in the same league as the the current Epson 5020UB, Sony HW50ES, JVC RS46 & above but i rationalized that the W7K brightness and sharpness were the most important factors for me. For the most part this is still true but I find I am wanting to close the gap on the black level performance and am willing to trade off a bit for this especially now with the Reality creation feature on the Sony.

Two days ago, I was at Best Buy Magnolia and they had what I think was an Epson 5020UB on an SI (I think) Black diamond. Now, I know BB Magnolia is not the best place for a reference demo but still the 5020 black levels and sharpness were pretty impressive. Dust blob anecdotes still scare me away from Epson so it got me thinking about the Sony HW50ES. I am not looking at the JVCs as I am bit apprehensive about the perceived bulb issues of the RS40 and besides that ..IIRC, the lumens I want to get above or close to 20ft-L requires "high mode" and I really want to run in ECO mode .

IIRC, after calibration, the Sony HW50ES will yield about ~1000 lumens. --> 1000 = X ft-L * ( (125" x 53" )/ 144 ) / 1 -> ~ 21.7 ft-L ? Not sure if my math is right here as I am using an A-lens so not sure if I should be using the 16x9 area.. but my point is, it seems the HW50 lumens after calibration should be more than adequate ?

My other questions

1) Any BenQ W6000 or W7000 users (or any DLP owners) upgrade to Sony HW50 and have any regrets?

2) I currently use a chief mount set up as shown here . Anyone know what part(s) I will need to replace ? Not sure if I will need a longer pole. Also can the Chief mount pole be in the same location?


3) Worthwhile to wait for HW55 for possible price drop on HW50 ?

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Old 08-12-2013, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

What about the JVC's, but I'd say the Sony hw50 is better than the Epson if you want to spend the extra money.

This weekend I went to Magnolia twice to demo the X55R. They had a 116" x 48" (126" ? diagonal) 2.3x Stewart screen and the projector was ~ 15 feet back. I don't know the Stewart model or gain of the screen but it had what appeared to be a greyish fabric-like material. I don't think the projector was calibrated so I just watched in Cinema and Film mode and did not change from the default settings except toggle MPC e-shift & played with the gamma settings. FWIW, the bulb timer had about 2300 hours. I left the aperture at 0 . Toggling through e-shift did not make much of an impression on me as the Darbee has on my BenQ. I brought my own demo discs - Transformers , Wall-E , Iron Man 2. The overall picture is not as razor sharp as single chip DLP as many people have commented on this forum however, it was not as soft as I was thinking it would be. Maybe a darbee would help even more here? Even with aperture at 0, the contrast is so much better than the W7000. I found myself wanting to keep watching vs the BenQ where I am distracted by the poorer black levels and contrast. I didn't measure the lumens during my two demo visits but the image, while not super bright, was not horribly dim either. That said, I'm still concerned about the lack of headroom to get as close to 20ft-L as the bulb ages. My current BenQ is mounted such that it's ~17ft from PJ lens to screen and I like to leave in low lamp mode. High mode on the JVC is distracting to me.

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Originally Posted by Mustang84 View Post

I own both the W7000 and the HW50. They are both good projectors, but the Sony is more balanced (no real weakness) and in my opinion better for 2D viewing. You are right, the HW50 cannot compete with the excellent native sharpness of the W7000. But its black level and contrast is far superior compared to the W7000. In terms of brightness the max brightness of the Sony is with 1700 lumen slightly lower, however it has one of the highest calibrated brightness out there, and even its dynamic mode at 1700 lumen does look far better than most of the competitors (with are often very green in brightest modes). Another advantage of the HW50 is its excellent IRIS and the very low noise (even in high lamp mode). I generally use the HW50 for 2D viewing and sometimes for 3D viewing. The W7000 I only use for 3D vieweing (no crosstalk and no flicker). If you have more questions to the comparison of both projectors feel free to ask.

Thanks Mustang84. Since you have the W7000, do you find yourself missing the sharpness of the W7000 a little or a lot when you watch the HW50? Or does the black level + contrast more than make up for it? RC help a lot ? Zombies's thread leads me to believe that RC + Darbee could get the sharpness close enough to the BenQ and add in the contrast of HW50.. maybe can have our cake and eat it too.

Do you think the brightness of the HW50 vs the W7000 is a night and day difference? I really do like the W7000 brightness and am fearful I will miss the brightness but it's good to know the HW50 in high lamp mode is still low noise.

Before you decided on the HW50, did you compare vs the JVCs? if yes, was the black level and contrast & overall PQ a night & day difference for you?

I keep reading over and over how the HW50 is the "well rounded" .. so thinking now that the HW50 is the front runner with it's black levels + contrast + Sony RC with Darbee + higher calibrated brightness ... but i really would like to demo it and darn CEDIA is just a month away!

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Hi Mike, still researching wink.gif
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quack724 View Post

This weekend I went to Magnolia twice to demo the X55R. They had a 116" x 48" (126" ? diagonal) 2.3x Stewart screen and the projector was ~ 15 feet back. I don't know the Stewart model or gain of the screen but it had what appeared to be a greyish fabric-like material. I don't think the projector was calibrated so I just watched in Cinema and Film mode and did not change from the default settings except toggle MPC e-shift & played with the gamma settings. FWIW, the bulb timer had about 2300 hours. I left the aperture at 0 . Toggling through e-shift did not make much of an impression on me as the Darbee has on my BenQ. I brought my own demo discs - Transformers , Wall-E , Iron Man 2. The overall picture is not as razor sharp as single chip DLP as many people have commented on this forum however, it was not as soft as I was thinking it would be. Maybe a darbee would help even more here? Even with aperture at 0, the contrast is so much better than the W7000. I found myself wanting to keep watching vs the BenQ where I am distracted by the poorer black levels and contrast. I didn't measure the lumens during my two demo visits but the image, while not super bright, was not horribly dim either. That said, I'm still concerned about the lack of headroom to get as close to 20ft-L as the bulb ages. My current BenQ is mounted such that it's ~17ft from PJ lens to screen and I like to leave in low lamp mode. High mode on the JVC is distracting to me.
Thanks Mustang84. Since you have the W7000, do you find yourself missing the sharpness of the W7000 a little or a lot when you watch the HW50? Or does the black level + contrast more than make up for it? RC help a lot ? Zombies's thread leads me to believe that RC + Darbee could get the sharpness close enough to the BenQ and add in the contrast of HW50.. maybe can have our cake and eat it too.

Do you think the brightness of the HW50 vs the W7000 is a night and day difference? I really do like the W7000 brightness and am fearful I will miss the brightness but it's good to know the HW50 in high lamp mode is still low noise.

Before you decided on the HW50, did you compare vs the JVCs? if yes, was the black level and contrast & overall PQ a night & day difference for you?

I keep reading over and over how the HW50 is the "well rounded" .. so thinking now that the HW50 is the front runner with it's black levels + contrast + Sony RC with Darbee + higher calibrated brightness ... but i really would like to demo it and darn CEDIA is just a month away!
Hi Mike, still researching wink.gif

Remember with LCOS projectors there is some luck of the draw in how sharp the convergence comes out. I can tell you my JVC is almost as sharp as my Benq w7000. It's pretty darn close.
I compared the sharpness of the two in this article:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449695/comparison-of-4-projectors-viewsonic-pro8200-vs-benq-w7000-vs-jvc-rs-45-vs-mits-hc4000#post_22788009

For movie watching, I am sure 90% of us would prefer a JVC or Sony over the w7000.
I own both the w7000 and the JVC, I always use the JVC for most movies, it just produces a better image. I don't find many (if any) areas the Benq really beats the JVC in movies.

Yes, the Darbee helps the JVC greatly. As far as e-shift goes, it adds a bit to the image, makes it smoother looking, but it's not really a sharpening enhancement in the traditional sense. E-shift is different than the Darbee. They are complimentary rather than exclusionary.

When it comes to sharpness of a DLP vs. a JVC in most movies, well the main thing we are really seeing is the different look of the DLP's PIXEL FILL, rather than purely a sharpness thing. Since LCOS has a higher pixel fill (especially with E-shift on), then the image can sometimes look more natural and less digital, and overall can be perceived as less sharp. Most of the time I prefer this look over DLP, you just have to get used to it is all. The Benq also cheats a little bit and uses a somewhat rough sharpening enhancement that is on the verge of causing ringing. I think the Benq at sharpness +1 is about the same as JVC's sharpness control set to +10 to +15.

To tell you the truth, the Benq w7000 isn't my favorite under $2000 DLP for movies anyhow, I'm not sure which is my favorite but I have a feeling the Sharp xvz-30,000 would be if I saw one (problem is though you can't get them at this price anymore I don't think). I think for movies the Mits hc8000 would beat the w7000 if you can get past the lens uniformity issue and color uniformity issues of the Mitsubishi. I've never seen the hc8000 though, Zombie didn't like it but mostly he was looking at it for 3D purposes.


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Old 08-12-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post


To tell you the truth, the Benq w7000 isn't my favorite under $2000 DLP for movies anyhow, I'm not sure which is my favorite but I have a feeling the Sharp xvz-30,000 would be if I saw one (problem is though you can't get them at this price anymore I don't think). s.


No, unfortunately, the Sharp 30k's cannot be found anywhere under $2400.00. I've been searching desperately, and looking everywhere trying to find one under $2k (as they were priced previously) to replace my failed JVC RS10 (Magenta stripe issue) as an interim projector until 4k becomes affordable in a couple years. At $2400.00, they are within $200.00 or so of much superior projectors such as the JVC RS46, etc. I honestly don't understand how they are moving any of the Sharp's for that kind of money, especially as Sharp has left the projector business and all of these units will likely have little, or no support.


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Old 08-12-2013, 11:47 PM
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I'm the last two weeks there have been two Z30k's that sold at auction for around $1800 on Ebay. Both came with the 3D emitter and four pair of 3D glasses.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

No, unfortunately, the Sharp 30k's cannot be found anywhere under $2400.00. I've been searching desperately, and looking everywhere trying to find one under $2k (as they were priced previously) to replace my failed JVC RS10 (Magenta stripe issue) as an interim projector until 4k becomes affordable in a couple years. At $2400.00, they are within $200.00 or so of much superior projectors such as the JVC RS46, etc. I honestly don't understand how they are moving any of the Sharp's for that kind of money, especially as Sharp has left the projector business and all of these units will likely have little, or no support.

John


it's surprising how many they sold, some near 3k. At the $1799 blow out price, it was worth the risk since the 3D is excellent. I'm looking for another, possibly to run in an active stack.

30k > 7000 for 2D and 3D. The W7000 has been retired to PC duties.


@ quack724 - The HW50 and RS46 are within ~100 lumens of one another with a full D65 calibration.

regarding sharpness, the Epson 5020 and RS46 will have a higher perceived sharpness than the HW50 without the reality creation turned on. The reality creation, even at it's lowest setting can be a bit too harsh for certain BD content. Anywhere there is a potential for grain to show through, RC will make it stand out. it's especially noticeable on my 142" @ close seating distance.

Underworld is one of my favorite benchmarks for the various projectors, only a handful can really handle this movie well.

Some closeup's of RC turned on / off. Setting are at minimum.

HW50-Reality.jpg

HW50-Reality1.jpg

HW50-Reality2.jpg

HW50-Reality3.jpg

HW50-Reality4.jpg

HW50-Reality5.jpg

The reality creations makes the grain noticeable and a bit distracting during playback. I chose to leave it off for this movie and used the darbee instead. This is where a projector that is more naturally sharp can exceed the PQ of the HW50. I'll post some stock vs. stock & also Reality Creation vs. E-shift comparisons in the shootout thread. For my preferences, e-shift is more natural and a better overall PQ enhancement than reality creation. I leave it on 100% of the time for all content.

Either the 5020 or RS46 would be a good replacement for the W7000 based on the info you provided above.


edit: it's not just movies with grain where the RC can be a bit overwhelming. I recently watched Oblivion which is an excellent transfer, and the RC was introducing some artifacts I'd have preferred not to see. I'm hoping they offer a mode that can tone it down a bit in the upcoming HW55.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it's surprising how many they sold, some near 3k. At the $1799 blow out price, it was worth the risk since the 3D is excellent. I'm looking for another, possibly to run in an active stack.

30k > 7000 for 2D and 3D. The W7000 has been retired to PC duties.


@ quack724 - The HW50 and RS46 are within ~100 lumens of one another with a full D65 calibration.

regarding sharpness, the Epson 5020 and RS46 will have a higher perceived sharpness than the HW50 without the reality creation turned on. The reality creation, even at it's lowest setting can be a bit too harsh for certain BD content. Anywhere there is a potential for grain to show through, RC will make it stand out. it's especially noticeable on my 142" @ close seating distance.

Underworld is one of my favorite benchmarks for the various projectors, only a handful can really handle this movie well.

Some closeup's of RC turned on / off. Setting are at minimum.

HW50-Reality.jpg

HW50-Reality1.jpg

HW50-Reality2.jpg

HW50-Reality3.jpg

HW50-Reality4.jpg

HW50-Reality5.jpg

The reality creations makes the grain noticeable and a bit distracting during playback. I chose to leave it off for this movie and used the darbee instead. This is where a projector that is more naturally sharp can exceed the PQ of the HW50. I'll post some stock vs. stock & also Reality Creation vs. E-shift comparisons in the shootout thread. For my preferences, e-shift is more natural and a better overall PQ enhancement than reality creation. I leave it on 100% of the time for all content.

Either the 5020 or RS46 would be a good replacement for the W7000 based on the info you provided above.


edit: it's not just movies with grain where the RC can be a bit overwhelming. I recently watched Oblivion which is an excellent transfer, and the RC was introducing some artifacts I'd have preferred not to see. I'm hoping they offer a mode that can tone it down a bit in the upcoming HW55.


So as a HW5O owner would advice me to get Darbee and use less RC on the projector?
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Remember with LCOS projectors there is some luck of the draw in how sharp the convergence comes out. I can tell you my JVC is almost as sharp as my Benq w7000. It's pretty darn close.
I compared the sharpness of the two in this article:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449695/comparison-of-4-projectors-viewsonic-pro8200-vs-benq-w7000-vs-jvc-rs-45-vs-mits-hc4000#post_22788009

For movie watching, I am sure 90% of us would prefer a JVC or Sony over the w7000.
I own both the w7000 and the JVC, I always use the JVC for most movies, it just produces a better image. I don't find many (if any) areas the Benq really beats the JVC in movies.

Yes, the Darbee helps the JVC greatly. As far as e-shift goes, it adds a bit to the image, makes it smoother looking, but it's not really a sharpening enhancement in the traditional sense. E-shift is different than the Darbee. They are complimentary rather than exclusionary.

When it comes to sharpness of a DLP vs. a JVC in most movies, well the main thing we are really seeing is the different look of the DLP's PIXEL FILL, rather than purely a sharpness thing. Since LCOS has a higher pixel fill (especially with E-shift on), then the image can sometimes look more natural and less digital, and overall can be perceived as less sharp. Most of the time I prefer this look over DLP, you just have to get used to it is all. The Benq also cheats a little bit and uses a somewhat rough sharpening enhancement that is on the verge of causing ringing. I think the Benq at sharpness +1 is about the same as JVC's sharpness control set to +10 to +15.

To tell you the truth, the Benq w7000 isn't my favorite under $2000 DLP for movies anyhow, I'm not sure which is my favorite but I have a feeling the Sharp xvz-30,000 would be if I saw one (problem is though you can't get them at this price anymore I don't think). I think for movies the Mits hc8000 would beat the w7000 if you can get past the lens uniformity issue and color uniformity issues of the Mitsubishi. I've never seen the hc8000 though, Zombie didn't like it but mostly he was looking at it for 3D purposes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

@ quack724 - The HW50 and RS46 are within ~100 lumens of one another with a full D65 calibration.

regarding sharpness, the Epson 5020 and RS46 will have a higher perceived sharpness than the HW50 without the reality creation turned on. The reality creation, even at it's lowest setting can be a bit too harsh for certain BD content. Anywhere there is a potential for grain to show through, RC will make it stand out. it's especially noticeable on my 142" @ close seating distance.

Underworld is one of my favorite benchmarks for the various projectors, only a handful can really handle this movie well.

Some closeup's of RC turned on / off. Setting are at minimum.

The reality creations makes the grain noticeable and a bit distracting during playback. I chose to leave it off for this movie and used the darbee instead. This is where a projector that is more naturally sharp can exceed the PQ of the HW50. I'll post some stock vs. stock & also Reality Creation vs. E-shift comparisons in the shootout thread. For my preferences, e-shift is more natural and a better overall PQ enhancement than reality creation. I leave it on 100% of the time for all content.

Either the 5020 or RS46 would be a good replacement for the W7000 based on the info you provided above.


edit: it's not just movies with grain where the RC can be a bit overwhelming. I recently watched Oblivion which is an excellent transfer, and the RC was introducing some artifacts I'd have preferred not to see. I'm hoping they offer a mode that can tone it down a bit in the upcoming HW55.


Thanks coderguy and zombie. You guys have influenced to take a hard look at the JVCs. I am interested in the X55R or RS-4810 for the MPC faux 4K and CMS. I think the RS 4810 is the custom installer version but otherwise same spec as X55R? Rumor has it that the 4810 is on clearance now with a free bulb . I think this puts the 4810 somewhat close to the street price of the Sony HW50.

The main concern for me is will I get enough ft-L at 0 hour and 1000+ hours with my 125" wide 2.37 Seymour XD. My current BenQ projector lens to screen distance is 17 ft.

My understanding is that generally the lumens ouput will vary at various throw ranges. In Art's review he measures

JVC DLA-X55R Lumen Output and Color Temp at 100 IRE (mid zoom) Pre-Calibration:

Cinema= 712 @ 6506, 451 @ 6827 in default Low lamp mode
Film= 676 @ 5967
Natural= 721 @ 6510
Stage= 793 @ 7736
Animation= 775 @ 8377
3D= 793 @ 7755
User 1-5= 721 @ 6518


Some questions in my mind as I read through his review

1) From Art's review, he uses "mid zoom" mean but I am not sure what the distance equates to. If I mount the JVC with lens to screen distance of 17 ft like my BenQ, how do I determine my lumens output in low lamp and high lamp mode?
2) Which mode is best to calibrate on?
3) Since lumens = (ft-lamberts * screen area sq ft) / gain
or
[ lumens * gain ] / area = ft - L

Since I use an ISCO 4XL A-lens, do I use 16 x 9 width ( 94 " ) and not the full 125" width to arrive at the screen area ?


In the mean time, I'll make some assumptions..

Scenario #1: Screen width 125" x screen height 53" -> 6625 sq in / 144 sq in = ~46 sq ft -> I like low lamp for quiet so assume 450 lumens in Cinema mode for now -> 450 / 46 = 9.78 ft-L -> below minimum 12 ft-L at that is with new bulb and not even factoring in I think 2% light loss with A-lens and Seymour XD is .9 or .95 gain actual?

High lamp mode 700 lumen -> ~15 ft-L

Scenario #2: Screen width 94" x screen height 53" -> 4982 sq in / 144 sq in = ~34.6 sq ft -> I like low lamp for quiet so assume 450 lumens in Cinema mode for now -> 450 / 34.6 = 13 ft-L -> just above 12ft-L ... not even factoring in I think 2% light loss with A-lens and Seymour XD actual gain.

High lamp mode 700 lumen -> ~20.3 ft-L

I don't know which of the two scenarios above is the right math but in either case, it seems I have to run the JVCs in high lamp mode in order to get decent ft-L for my screen size. But when i demoed the X55R at Magnolia, i remember could hear the fan and it was somewhat distracting. Have not made up my mind if it's a deal breaker but I remember noticing it. For the Sony HW50, i keep reading the high lamp mode is still very quiet.

If quiet fan is a criteria for me, it seems the Sony HW50 is best bet? Are the black level differences night & day or just splitting hairs? I get that the RC will make certain content not very good. But if I pair with my Darbee, can I get at least get close to the BenQ W7000 sharpness? Zombie, I know you have extensively tested both. Would appreciate your thoughts on here please !!
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:06 PM
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"Thanks coderguy and zombie. You guys have influenced to take a hard look at the JVCs. I am interested in the X55R or RS-4810 for the MPC faux 4K and CMS. I think the RS 4810 is the custom installer version but otherwise same spec as X55R? Rumor has it that the 4810 is on clearance now with a free bulb . I think this puts the 4810 somewhat close to the street price of the Sony HW50."


If that is true about the RS-4810 being on clearance with a free bulb and close to the street price of the HW50, I'm ready to purchase one today!


John
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:05 AM
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"Thanks coderguy and zombie. You guys have influenced to take a hard look at the JVCs. I am interested in the X55R or RS-4810 for the MPC faux 4K and CMS. I think the RS 4810 is the custom installer version but otherwise same spec as X55R? Rumor has it that the 4810 is on clearance now with a free bulb . I think this puts the 4810 somewhat close to the street price of the Sony HW50."


If that is true about the RS-4810 being on clearance with a free bulb and close to the street price of the HW50, I'm ready to purchase one today!


John

Might be for that price, but would be surprised if it is. That would mean the dealer is selling at a loss.

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Old 08-16-2013, 09:20 AM
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Thanks coderguy and zombie. You guys have influenced to take a hard look at the JVCs. I am interested in the X55R or RS-4810 for the MPC faux 4K and CMS. I think the RS 4810 is the custom installer version but otherwise same spec as X55R? Rumor has it that the 4810 is on clearance now with a free bulb . I think this puts the 4810 somewhat close to the street price of the Sony HW50.

The main concern for me is will I get enough ft-L at 0 hour and 1000+ hours with my 125" wide 2.37 Seymour XD. My current BenQ projector lens to screen distance is 17 ft.

My understanding is that generally the lumens ouput will vary at various throw ranges. In Art's review he measures

JVC DLA-X55R Lumen Output and Color Temp at 100 IRE (mid zoom) Pre-Calibration:

Cinema= 712 @ 6506, 451 @ 6827 in default Low lamp mode
Film= 676 @ 5967
Natural= 721 @ 6510
Stage= 793 @ 7736
Animation= 775 @ 8377
3D= 793 @ 7755
User 1-5= 721 @ 6518


Some questions in my mind as I read through his review

1) From Art's review, he uses "mid zoom" mean but I am not sure what the distance equates to. If I mount the JVC with lens to screen distance of 17 ft like my BenQ, how do I determine my lumens output in low lamp and high lamp mode?
2) Which mode is best to calibrate on?
3) Since lumens = (ft-lamberts * screen area sq ft) / gain
or
[ lumens * gain ] / area = ft - L

Since I use an ISCO 4XL A-lens, do I use 16 x 9 width ( 94 " ) and not the full 125" width to arrive at the screen area ?


In the mean time, I'll make some assumptions..

Scenario #1: Screen width 125" x screen height 53" -> 6625 sq in / 144 sq in = ~46 sq ft -> I like low lamp for quiet so assume 450 lumens in Cinema mode for now -> 450 / 46 = 9.78 ft-L -> below minimum 12 ft-L at that is with new bulb and not even factoring in I think 2% light loss with A-lens and Seymour XD is .9 or .95 gain actual?

High lamp mode 700 lumen -> ~15 ft-L

Scenario #2: Screen width 94" x screen height 53" -> 4982 sq in / 144 sq in = ~34.6 sq ft -> I like low lamp for quiet so assume 450 lumens in Cinema mode for now -> 450 / 34.6 = 13 ft-L -> just above 12ft-L ... not even factoring in I think 2% light loss with A-lens and Seymour XD actual gain.

High lamp mode 700 lumen -> ~20.3 ft-L

I don't know which of the two scenarios above is the right math but in either case, it seems I have to run the JVCs in high lamp mode in order to get decent ft-L for my screen size. But when i demoed the X55R at Magnolia, i remember could hear the fan and it was somewhat distracting. Have not made up my mind if it's a deal breaker but I remember noticing it. For the Sony HW50, i keep reading the high lamp mode is still very quiet.

If quiet fan is a criteria for me, it seems the Sony HW50 is best bet? Are the black level differences night & day or just splitting hairs? I get that the RC will make certain content not very good. But if I pair with my Darbee, can I get at least get close to the BenQ W7000 sharpness? Zombie, I know you have extensively tested both. Would appreciate your thoughts on here please !!

Your lumen numbers should be pretty close. I would have used a little more light loss for the lens, but then I would have used a little more gain for the screen, so it comes out about the same as what I would have calculated. The Sony paired with the Darbee is a good match, but I think a Darbee paired with any projector is an improvement.

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Old 08-16-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Your lumen numbers should be pretty close. I would have used a little more light loss for the lens, but then I would have used a little more gain for the screen, so it comes out about the same as what I would have calculated. The Sony paired with the Darbee is a good match, but I think a Darbee paired with any projector is an improvement.

Thanks Mike. It's a bummer I can only use the JVC in high lamp mode. Leaning back toward the Sony now. But being this close to CEDIA, I am also leaning toward just waiting to see what is announced.


From a historical perspective, anyone know when the MSRP drop occurs? i.e. when the HW30 drop from $3999 to $2999 ?
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