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248K views 4K replies 201 participants last post by  viper14 
#1 ·
Hi,


some preliminary informations about the new range JVC 2014 are available on an italian seller's website :

http://www.homecinemasolution.it/proiettori-home-cinema/jvc/serie-2014/

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homecinemasolution.it%2Fproiettori-home-cinema%2Fjvc%2Fserie-2014%2F


" INFORMAZIONI PREELIMINARI


Quest'anno JVC non toccherà il modello di base DLA-RS46 che rimarrà a catalogo fino al prossimo novembre 2014 , ma uscirà con 3 nuovi modelli che si chiamano DLA-RS49- RS57 - RS67 .


Questi accetteranno tutti segnali 4K 3840x2160 nativi e avranno il supporto fino a 30HZ con una singola HDMI e 60HZ con la doppia HDMI .


Partiranno sempre con il 49 a € 5.000,00 che avrà in più del 48 oltre la possibilità di accettare segnali 4K anche 60.000:1 di contrasto e:


1°4K@60 can be inputted

2°Extremely improved Dynamic range

3°New MPC

4°New Clear Motion Drive

5°Photo Mode

6°Mastered in4K for x.v.Color

7°6th Generation new D-ILA Chip

8°2 Memories for Pixel Adjustment

9°Auto Calibration on 5 series

10°Newly Application for Smartphone"
 
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#227 ·
If they're so hung up on using the high native contrast ratio as a marketing point, then why not implement a dynamic iris, still only quote the native contrast for marketing (if that needs to be their thing), but then also have an improved or higher "dynamic range" due to the DI as yet another marketing point?
 
#228 ·
^^ maybe the dynamic values wouldn't be as high

maybe they feel 'lieing' to the customer with some randomly determined set of measurements that has zero effect on performance will be viewed as a negative

maybe the addition of a DI will generate questions of why they didn't do it earlier, or what was removed or what corners were cut because of its addition


basically it's become part of the JVC philosophy. i can only speak for myself, but one of the main deciding factors for me to purchase the x35 over the 5020 or 50ES was the lack of a DI. i happen to find them very brutal, and they MUST be turned off. there is literally NO reviews comparing the x35 to the 5020 or 50ES with the DI off. i had no idea if turning off the DI on those projectors would cause a noticeable difference or a monumental difference.


i understand the thought, take a jvc exactly the way it is now and add a DI, couldn't make it anything but better right? i mean we can always turn it off and have the same great performance we have now. but it raises uncertainties. first time buyers and ppl that can demo the units first end up with more questions, and questions lead to doubts and that scares away sales.


i do agree with you though, there's no 'good' reason why jvc couldn't add a DI to their projectors and still have excellent DI-free performance. i'm just suggesting reasons they wouldn't want to rock the boat of success.
 
#229 ·
I realise that this questions is slightly off topic, but hear me out...


I'm looking to get my first projector pretty soon, and was initially considering the Sony HV50ES, Epson 5020/6020 and the JVC X35/RS46. I've narrowed my choice down to the JVC for various reasons, and was waiting for CEDIA to see if anything changed regarding these lower models, and it looks like that's not going to happen.


$3,499 + tax is still out of my price range, and to be honest, I need to get under $3,000 inc. tax in order for the wife to give me approval (there is no chance in budging on this, because even $3,000 took a LOT of arguing). I had hoped that the X35/RS46 might be updated and I'd therefore be able to get an old unit at a slight discount, bringing the projector into my budget; now that this looks less likely, I'm faced with several options:
  • Buy a new X35/RS46 at the best price I can negotiate, and hope to get it into my budget
  • Wait for a B Stock or reconditioned X35/RS46 to come on the market from JVC themselves
  • Buy a B Stock RS4800 from AVScience that is of course in the budget
  • Try to get an X55/RS48 at a discount since it will be discontinued (I have been offered an ex-display unit with 1,500 hours on the bulb for $3,999, but that is really too high a price I think, and out of budget)


I'm posting in this forum because most of the contributors to this thread know JVC products well, and more importantly, know what happens to the market after the annual CEDIA announcements (Pre-order price discounts, old stock reductions etc.)


Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


Neil.
 
#232 ·
They should add a secret DI that can only be enabled in the Service Menu, then everyone is happy. They can call it "dynamic calibration ability of black levels available to installers and dealers", that way they don't even really have to advertise it. They should also be the first projector manufacturer to make the DI code open source, so that someone can make it better, because I guarantee you someone probably could and would.


Shoulda, coulda, woulda...
 
#233 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezil  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/210#post_23770460


Thanks for the tip Mark, but just how good have these pre-order prices been in the past?


The real shame is that the X35/RS46 isn't being updated, or a nice pre-order price on that would probably have been just the ticket!

Just follow my advice. I think you and your wife will be very pleased.
 
#234 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbryan  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/200_50#post_23770270


If they're so hung up on using the high native contrast ratio as a marketing point, then why not implement a dynamic iris, still only quote the native contrast for marketing (if that needs to be their thing), but then also have an improved or higher "dynamic range" due to the DI as yet another marketing point?

Took the words right out of my mouth; it would be a loss of face to quote DI CR after lambasting it in their previous marketing, but improved performance will not go unnoticed and they, and we, can benefit from is stealthy inclusion.
 
#235 ·
This argument has been made for many years on our forums but evidently the concept is contrary to the corporate JVC's basic religious beliefs. I wonder if their position now costs them more sales than it perhaps it used to gain when DI's were less perfected. Joe consumer just looks at the numbers I suspect, has no clue what a DI is, or would notice any artifacts from it.
 
#236 ·
I would guess that as many as 80% or more of people look in forums before making a purchase decision on a home theater projector, but I could guess wrong.

I only say that because Google so easily directs people to certain forums when googling anything related to certain projectors.


As for the other 20%, they are probably too clueless to care (probably consists of mostly doctors and professionals having the choice made by an HT professional).


I posted what JVC should do a few posts back in Post # 232.
 
#237 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/210#post_23770468


They should add a secret DI that can only be enabled in the Service Menu, then everyone is happy. They can call it "dynamic calibration ability of black levels available to installers and dealers", that way they don't even really have to advertise it. They should also be the first projector manufacturer to make the DI code open source, so that someone can make it better, because I guarantee you someone probably could and would.


Shoulda, coulda, woulda...

LOL. I wish I could be that funny when writing a humorless post.
 
#238 ·
I think it makes perfect sense, a lot of things sound crazy until you try it


Maybe an open standard is a better way to put it.


Keep the IRIS disabled by default, don't over-market it, but it's there if you want it. For people really wanting to dig into a projector's specs, most will find out about it, for the others they don't care. I doubt that many people buying $2000+ home theater projectors are going by contrast ratios in the advertised spec, even if they ONLY read some of the reviews from where they are purchasing it, the reviews almost immediately point out the fallacy of rated contrast, or any projector review site will often point it out.


Almost everything else in video gets better if its at least an open and revisable standard. There really is no reason all these irises have to be hacks from Asia, other than some companies not wanting to divulge their intellectual property of how they built it. At the very least these irises should be more configurable.
 
#240 ·
Even if you divulged no code at all, I wouldn't be surprised if some random programmers made it better from scratch with no code to reference even if you just let them overwrite the iris code. Happens all the time in things like game modding, and some of that is just as complex as an IRIS design. For instance, take the game Flight Simulator 10, some people don't realize there is an add-on called "Tile Proxy" that can map real photos from satellite images at different LOD's, increasing the graphics of the simulation by 1000x closer to reality (no exaggeration). Such things are done by open source programmers.


With something as complex as iris design, open standards and design almost always make it better. I don't think open source always makes stuff better, but in the case of something like irises, usually it does.
 
#242 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/240#post_23771802


This stuff is way beyond me. I am a slide rule guy.

No you are not, you are an engineer and a lawyer, and I only a programmer that has to program engineering problems. On the pay-scale, you are higher up, but at least I don't have to pay the IT guy :p


The only point is I think some programmers (not myself, some others) would make it better. I might be able to do better than say Benq or Optoma by myself (IMO their irises were pretty questionable), but not Sony or Runco (That I have doubts). I bet some other guys (not me) could do better than Sony or Runco iris code though (who knows).
 
#243 ·
So there we have it - JVC actually using a dynamic iris:


A user-selectable Intelligent Lens Aperture produces deeper black levels while maintaining white levels that JVC said are superior to those produced by projectors equipped with a dynamic iris. Dynamic contrast ratios for the new models were measured at the following: models LA-X900R/RS67/RS6710 (1,500,000:1); models DLA-X700R/RS57 (1,200,000:1); and models DLA-X500R/RS49/RS4910 (600,000:1).


Picture quality is also enhanced through a new Clear Black feature that provides local area contrast enhancement, and improved Clear Motion Drive (CMD 3), which uses a new LSI and algorithm to clean up motion artifacts on diagonal lines on 4K and 2K 2D content and 2K 3D content.
 
#244 ·
This is the source:
http://www.twice.com/articletype/news/jvc-unveils-2014-uhd-d-ila-projector-lines/108501#


This is a full copy/paste of the article:


Denver — JVC unveiled at CEDIA Expo 2013 here Thursday the next iterations of its Ultra HD home-theater projectors incorporating the next phase in its E-shift up-scaling technology, E-shift3, which offers substantial improvements in image quality, according to the company.


JVC said the overall picture-quality performance boost is also driven by a new D-ILA imaging device and a user-selectable Intelligent Lens Aperture, which combine to produce some of the industry’s highest dynamic contrast and black levels.


The 2014 models will all ship to dealers in November and include the Procision Series DLA-X900R ($11,999 suggested retail), DLA-X700R ($7,999) and DLA-X500R ($4,999), marketed by JVC’s consumer A/V group, and the Reference-series DLA-RS6710 ($12,499 suggested retail), DLA-RS67 ($11,999), DLA-RS57 ($7,999), DLA-RS4910 ($5,199) and DLA-RS49 ($4,999), available through JVC’s professional products company division.


All of the new units now are compatible with native Ultra HD signal sources and can process 4K signals for a smoother, more detailed image.


Picture performance is further optimized by a new Multiple Pixel Control (MPC) processor with eight-band detection. The MPC processor offers four presets plus an Auto setting that automatically selects the best up-conversion process by detecting the frequency of each pixel.


The models include a 4K signal input (60p) so that now both 4K and 2K sources can be displayed as 3,840 by 2,160 Ultra HD resolution images.


Each projector is equipped with three sixth-generation JVC D-ILA imaging devices that feature a pixel gap that’s 40 percent narrower than the previous chip for a smoother picture; a 10 percent improvement in light efficiency for a light output of 1,300 lumens; and improved native contrast, which is also enhanced by a new, third-generation wire grid optical engine.


As a result, native contrast ratios for the new projectors are listed as the following: DLA-X900R/RS67/RS6710 models are said to produce a native contrast ratio of 150,000:1; models DLA-X700R/RS57 produce a 120,000:1 native contrast ratio, and models DLA-X500R/RS49/RS4910 produce 60,000:1 contrast ratio images.


A user-selectable Intelligent Lens Aperture produces deeper black levels while maintaining white levels that JVC said are superior to those produced by projectors equipped with a dynamic iris. Dynamic contrast ratios for the new models were measured at the following: models LA-X900R/RS67/RS6710 (1,500,000:1); models DLA-X700R/RS57 (1,200,000:1); and models DLA-X500R/RS49/RS4910 (600,000:1).


Picture quality is also enhanced through a new Clear Black feature that provides local area contrast enhancement, and improved Clear Motion Drive (CMD 3), which uses a new LSI and algorithm to clean up motion artifacts on diagonal lines on 4K and 2K 2D content and 2K 3D content.


Other new enhancements for 2014 include two memory settings for pixel convergence to store correction settings for external lenses; a new smartphone app that provides remote control functionality for the projector; and Adobe RGB picture mode on the top five models.


This year, 3D-compatible models offer RF rather than IR connected active-shutter glasses to limit interference. They have lens memory settings to store custom focus, and zoom and horizontal/vertical lens shift positions to provide a constant height on 4:3, 16:9, and 2.35:1 aspect ratio material without an anamorphic lens.


The flagship DLA-X900R and DLA-RS67/6710 are built using hand-selected, hand-tested components and offer 3D capability. They ship with two pairs of PK-AG3 RF 3D glasses and a PK-EM2 3D signal emitter. The DLA-RS6710 also includes a spare lamp and comes with a five-year warranty vs. a three-year warranty on the DLA-X900R and DLA-RS67.


The DLA-X700R and DLA-RS57 come with a two-year warranty.


The DLA-X900R, DLA-X700R, DLA-RS6710, DLA-RS67 and DLA-RS57 offer ISF certification and are designed to pass the 400-plus tests necessary to achieve THX 3D Certification (pending). All JVC THX Certified Projectors include THX 2D and 3D Cinema viewing modes to provide accurate color reproduction through a pre-calibrated setting.


The DLA-X500R, DLA-RS49 and DLA-RS4910 each have a native contrast ratio of 60,000:1 and have dynamic contrast ratio of 600,000:1. The DLA-RS4910 provides ISF certification and three-year warranty, while the DLA-X500R and DLA-RS67 come with a two-year warranty.


Two current models, the DLA-X35 and the DLA-RS46, remain in the line for 2014
 
#246 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupdragon  /t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/240#post_23773330


So there we have it - JVC actually using a dynamic iris:


A user-selectable Intelligent Lens Aperture produces deeper black levels while maintaining white levels that JVC said are superior to those produced by projectors equipped with a dynamic iris. Dynamic contrast ratios for the new models were measured at the following: models LA-X900R/RS67/RS6710 (1,500,000:1); models DLA-X700R/RS57 (1,200,000:1); and models DLA-X500R/RS49/RS4910 (600,000:1).


Picture quality is also enhanced through a new Clear Black feature that provides local area contrast enhancement, and improved Clear Motion Drive (CMD 3), which uses a new LSI and algorithm to clean up motion artifacts on diagonal lines on 4K and 2K 2D content and 2K 3D content.

Those Italian leaks were all wrong too....When not using dynamic iris the new contrast numbers are:-



• DLA‐X900R 150,000:1


• DLA‐X700R 120,000:1


• DLA‐X500R 60,000:1



The X900 looks decidedly not worthwhile considering the boost to the X700 (if these numbers are indeed correct)...and in particular with the dynamic iris, the improvement of the 900 is even less valuable
 
#248 ·
It will be interesting to hear how good the intelligent lens aperture is. I hope it is not that detectable but at least you can turn it off if it is.


Mike
 
#249 ·
The native contrast of the RS57/X700 at 120,000 plus dynamic of 1,200,000 sounds great and is the model I am thinking about if the Sony VW600 is priced too much.
 
#250 ·
It's about time they've added a dynamic iris.


I was considering upgrading from the RS4810 to the RS57 this year for the approximate doubling of the native contrast. The addition of the dynamic iris should make thy an even nicer jump.


A 10x multiplier is a little extreme, no? Do you think they'll have high/low setting for this?


So Mike, when will AVS have the preorder prices available?
 
#251 ·
Usually it is a week or two after Cedia that AVS will have preorder prices. Last year I think the RS56 was around $5700(I could be $50 or so dollars off one way or the other). The iris says user selectable so we at least know we can turn it on/off, hopefully more info will come out as to which modes it does have.


Mike
 
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