NEW RANGE JVC 2014 - Page 113 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:56 PM
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OK,thanks

Dare I ask how a loss of red doesn't shift color?

Noah
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

If the meter doesn't have a reset for the zero point it would be interesting to hear what it would measure if you point it at a dark corner with essentially no visible light. Then, if that value is non-zero whether it goes up or down as you move from there to small amounts of light. The CA813 will go down to zero and then back up in that case.

Also, you should be able to estimate your on/off CR for given conditions based on what other people get with your same projector model and then see if your meter gets even close to that. I'm thinking for the manual iris case at least. These much higher on/off CRs with auto modes are a lot tougher.

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Very interesting and a great tip to try Darin… Thanks!

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Old 01-16-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Can you elaborate?

Many are saying how good it looks OOTB or with simple test disc adjustments, so I wonder if it's worth spending another $500 for a professional calibration.


Here is a before and after of grayscale, I will be doing another calibration hopefully Saturday, I will post the full calibration after that.




Sorry mixed up the picture order.

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Old 01-16-2014, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

OK,thanks

Dare I ask how a loss of red doesn't shift color?

It does, but once you correct the grayscale/gamma the color points are fine. At least that has been the case with the last few measurements I've taken.

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

It does, but once you correct the grayscale/gamma the color points are fine.

Sorry to belabor this, but I'm confused; you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I haven't seen much if any color shift. What I do see is shift in grayscale (mainly on the upper end) as the bulb
wears.

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Old 01-16-2014, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Sorry to belabor this, but I'm confused; you said
I'm guessing that he meant he didn't see much shift in the primaries.

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Old 01-17-2014, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Sorry to belabor this, but I'm confused; you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I'm guessing that he meant he didn't see much shift in the primaries.

--Darin

Yes, on the JVCs, as Kris said, grescale (especially upper) shifts as the bulb ages, and while the gamut shifts with the white point, if you correct 100% white in the greyscale it brings the gamut back to its calibrated position. So in practice, you correct the gamut once and then mostly correct the greyscale.

However, this was true if you use the CMS of the projector, which is very limited. If your native standard gamut is good, tracks well and is only slightly oversaturated, therefore fully correctable with minor corrections, then the internal cms is fine. But if the best gamut available needs more corrections, the internal cms doesn't track very well and in that case, you need a good 3d lut cube calibration (with at least 5 x 5 x 5 control points) from an external device like your radiance to correct most of the points. Some units also have a wonky gamut (too yellow hue of green, which leads to uncorrectable green and cyan, in fact all the points between green and blue are non correctable at 100% saturation). Again, in that case a good 3D lut cube calibration is the only way to correct this as much as possible, as you need more than 6 or 7 control points. In that case, you run an autocalibration that corrects both greyscale and gamut in about 30-60mn depending on your software and meter.

However, if you are not very sensitive to color errors, you will probably be happy with a standard color profile and a good gamma/greyscale calibration. Some shades of green and cyan might be slightly off, but skin tones are usually good enough for most users to be happy. It would be a shame though not to use your radiance, as the difference is very visible (at least to my eyes) if the gamut needs a 3D lut cube calibration.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:07 AM
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Manni summed it up well. Whenever you have a shift in your grayscale (especially your white point) you will get a shift in color. By correcting the shift in the greyscale, the shift in color corrects itself. So in an initial measurement you'll see some error in color and grayscale. If you measure your color after you correct the grayscale, the errors are gone. That is what I've seen so far with my X75.

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Old 01-17-2014, 10:11 AM
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Can you please tell me what are your suggestions for calibrating an RS-49, considering that I only own an X-Rite i1 Display Pro calibrator and a couple of calibration Bluray discs?
Please note that I've got no Lumagen devices nor any specific software (ChromaPure/CalMAN), but I'd be willing to spend some €€€ - not too much - in order to get better results (if any).

Thanks!
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:48 AM
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I have looked at 3 of the new projectors so far and none of them needed a calibration OOTB. I set them up for user 1, standard color profile with all defaults for picture set to 0. Set the gamma to custom and 2.3 or 2.4 (depending on your preference for your room type). I then adjust the dark level in the gamma screen up to show digital 18 if you don't see it already (use basic pattern on the AVS 709 disc). I suggest Auto 2 for the dynamic iris and setting the manual iris to achieve your desired white level before changing to Auto 2. For grayscale I would suggest the 6500 preset. Everything else (e-shift, CMD, etc) is all up to your taste.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I have looked at 3 of the new projectors so far and none of them needed a calibration OOTB. I set them up for user 1, standard color profile with all defaults for picture set to 0. Set the gamma to custom and 2.3 or 2.4 (depending on your preference for your room type). I then adjust the dark level in the gamma screen up to show digital 18 if you don't see it already (use basic pattern on the AVS 709 disc). I suggest Auto 2 for the dynamic iris and setting the manual iris to achieve your desired white level before changing to Auto 2. For grayscale I would suggest the 6500 preset. Everything else (e-shift, CMD, etc) is all up to your taste.

That's helpful.

My RS55 was calibrated professionally, and I was wondering which picture setting I should start with on my RS57 before I get it calibrated (or...learn calibration more deeply). I'd thought maybe the THX mode, which I know isn't perfect, but
I'll go with what you've written here.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:01 PM
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I haven't personally had the chance to measure the THX preset to see how it compares. It may be solid as well, but I can't vouch for it at this point in time. I should be getting my review projector in anytime now, so I'll know more when I've spent more time with one.

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Old 01-17-2014, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I have looked at 3 of the new projectors so far and none of them needed a calibration OOTB. I set them up for user 1, standard color profile with all defaults for picture set to 0. Set the gamma to custom and 2.3 or 2.4 (depending on your preference for your room type). I then adjust the dark level in the gamma screen up to show digital 18 if you don't see it already (use basic pattern on the AVS 709 disc). I suggest Auto 2 for the dynamic iris and setting the manual iris to achieve your desired white level before changing to Auto 2. For grayscale I would suggest the 6500 preset. Everything else (e-shift, CMD, etc) is all up to your taste.

Greetings,

It's funny you mention that Kris. I set my 4910 similarly gamma (custom 2.3), d6500 preset, standard color profile etc. and to my eye the image appears very accurate. I plan on setting up my meter this weekend and taking some measurements and was already anticipating that things would probably measure very close.


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Old 01-17-2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightjar View Post

Can you please tell me what are your suggestions for calibrating an RS-49, considering that I only own an X-Rite i1 Display Pro calibrator and a couple of calibration Bluray discs?
Please note that I've got no Lumagen devices nor any specific software (ChromaPure/CalMAN), but I'd be willing to spend some €€€ - not too much - in order to get better results (if any).

Thanks!

I have the same meter and I used HCFR, here is the tutorial for using it. You have to scroll down the page to see it. Ignore the update at the top of the page,that is for different software, HCFR is free.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

James Reid:D
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:31 PM
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BTW...

(emphasis mine)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I have looked at 3 of the new projectors so far and none of them needed a calibration OOTB. I set them up for user 1,

The user modes are of course meant for custom calibration. But they have to start "somewhere" in terms of settings. It seems that the "user 1" mode (probably like the other user modes) starts off mainly accurate, unlike all the other pre-set
modes. Is that right? And is that typical for JVC projectors?

(I tend to start off using the the THX mode, and then have my projector calibrated soon after in one of the user modes. So I don't fool around too much looking at the other picture modes).

And...Kris...have you tried the Clear Black processing yet? smile.gif
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:04 PM
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Haven't had time to evaluate clear black.

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Old 01-17-2014, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Haven't had time to evaluate clear black.
That's because all of your spare minutes are spent here (posting). smile.gif
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:33 PM
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Actually it is probably due to the lack of having a projector on hand to evaluate. wink.gif

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Old 01-17-2014, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I have looked at 3 of the new projectors so far and none of them needed a calibration OOTB. I set them up for user 1, standard color profile with all defaults for picture set to 0. Set the gamma to custom and 2.3 or 2.4 (depending on your preference for your room type). I then adjust the dark level in the gamma screen up to show digital 18 if you don't see it already (use basic pattern on the AVS 709 disc). I suggest Auto 2 for the dynamic iris and setting the manual iris to achieve your desired white level before changing to Auto 2. For grayscale I would suggest the 6500 preset. Everything else (e-shift, CMD, etc) is all up to your taste.

Kris, were these 3 pjs different model (500, 700, 900) or 3 samples all from the same model? Either way, that pretty impressive, but especially if the less expensive ones are good as well.

I really like the look of Auto 1 for the iris, just curious is anyone has found settings that don't crush black or white? (I had it close but then had to reset my pj due to HDMI issues...)
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,

It's funny you mention that Kris. I set my 4910 similarly gamma (custom 2.3), d6500 preset, standard color profile etc. and to my eye the image appears very accurate. I plan on setting up my meter this weekend and taking some measurements and was already anticipating that things would probably measure very close.


Regards,
Same here. OOTB my 4910 appears very good with minimal tweaking.
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:36 PM
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Yes, they were the 500,700 and 900 equivalents. So I've measured all three of the new line and found the same results.

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Old 01-17-2014, 01:46 PM
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Thanks for all the great info Kris. I am going to keep some of these posts bookmarked for when I get my 4910 later this year. I have calibration gear, but will just run with OOTB settings for a while first, so good to know where to start.

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Old 01-17-2014, 02:10 PM
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Just a heads up for anyone in Northern California that is thinking about buying a new JVC, and would like to see one first -

AV Science Home Theater Equipment Demo Day, Saturday, February 8th, 2014.

Any AVS forum members or other home theater enthusiasts located in the Northern California / Reno area are invited to join Craig Peer of AV Science on Saturday, February 8th, to see the new JVC RS4910 and RS57 projectors in action. Other equipment available to check out are -

Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreen, StudioTek 130 G3 material – 50.2 x 118 x 128.2 diagonal

Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreen, Neve 1.1 material – 59.5 x 106 x 122 diagonal

Denon AVR 4520ci

OPPO BDP - 103 Blu Ray player

Martin Logan Motion speakers ( Motion 40’s, Motion 8 center speaker, Motion FX surrounds, Motion LX16 wides , Motion 4 heights .

SVS subwoofers.

GIK Acoustics acoustic panels.

Demo hours – RS4910 – noon to 2pm. RS57 – 3 to 5pm. Snacks and beverages provided. Demo location is just off Hwy 50 near Folsom, CA ( Sacramento area ).

Space is limited. Please reserve a seat and get directions by sending an email to craig@avscience.com. Or, PM me. smile.gif
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Yes, they were the 500,700 and 900 equivalents. So I've measured all three of the new line and found the same results.

Did you see any substantive PQ differences between them?

And many thanks for your setup tips!

Noah
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:58 PM
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Didn't have all three in the same room or at the same time. Each was spaced out about a week. They all looked great from what I saw but I'll disect them a bit more when I get the review unit in. I've said it before that we've reached a point where most of the projectors on the market throw a very compelling image. It is more of a matter of finding what fits with your setup requirements the most. I'm a huge fan of the brightness the Sony's bring, on top of their extremely quiet fans. And native 4K panels don't hurt one bit. The JVCs set the bar for contrast performance and I'm always surprised how sharp of an image you can get if you score one with a good lens (doesn't always end up the case, but I've been pretty lucky). With the bigger price disparity the JVCs are more compelling to me this year, especially with the utter lack of 4K content to take advantage of with the new Sony's. But there are definitely things the Sony bring to the table that the JVCs can't, so it comes down to ones needs and/or wants.

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Old 01-17-2014, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
I've said it before that we've reached a point where most of the projectors on the market throw a very compelling image. It is more of a matter of finding what fits with your setup requirements the most.

+ 1.

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Old 01-17-2014, 04:13 PM
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I concur Kris, I am really pleasantly surprised at how sharp an image my X500 throws. I am coming from a BenQ W7000 which was very sharp, I do not feel like I gave up any sharpness, in fact web browsing seems just as sharp.

James Reid:D
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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At the 3 price points, (5K, 8K, & 12K) I'm thinking it's Good, Better, & Best.biggrin.gif
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:17 PM
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Or could be, "I deserve a good projector, I deserve a great projector, or I deserve the best projector." wink.gif
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:24 PM
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In my case in was: (1) Can I swing spending this much on a new projector? (2) I could no way no how swing spending this much on a new projector. (3) If I cash in one of my 401k's, I could buy this projector. tongue.gif
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