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post #3781 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Why would the Oppo has to pass through the avr? The oppo should do directly through the projector. Myself and many others just use the second hdmi output strictly for audio. I use my second projector with my avr and the hdmi output 2 but my main projector is direct source

I just prefer controlling everything through my AVR. If connecting the Oppo directly to the JVC (bypassing the Sony AVR) will make the PQ better, then I'll try it out.

I need to call Sony and Oppo and speak with a tech to see how they handle signals (upscaling and passthrough).

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post #3782 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 10:01 AM
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I have a cave and a X500 and I have yet to see "black out". But I can tell you it is close,with the iris at -7 the black bars nearly disappear and are about as black, as I have seen on my Cousins Pioneer Plasma. During a scene with stars, like Gravity or the Star Wars intro there is a definite wow factor as the stars really pop and space sort of disappears. During times when the screen goes black, it is black but not complete, there is a bit of grey in there but mostly black. Hard to explain but it is the best fade to black I have personally seen, just not full on black.
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post #3783 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

I have a cave and a X500 and I have yet to see "black out". But I can tell you it is close,with the iris at -7 the black bars nearly disappear and are about as black, as I have seen on my Cousins Pioneer Plasma. During a scene with stars, like Gravity or the Star Wars intro there is a definite wow factor as the stars really pop and space sort of disappears. During times when the screen goes black, it is black but not complete, there is a bit of grey in there but mostly black. Hard to explain but it is the best fade to black I have personally seen, just not full on black.

Yeah, and that is good enough for me. The only other tech I know of that can do better is OLED, or some full-array local dimming LED/LCD's that shut off the the LED's intra-scene. And none of those are available in "affordable" 120"+ screen sizes. At the moment, this is the best we can get for the $$$. I can live with that until something better comes along that I can afford. smile.gif

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post #3784 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

I just prefer controlling everything through my AVR. If connecting the Oppo directly to the JVC (bypassing the Sony AVR) will make the PQ better, then I'll try it out.

I need to call Sony and Oppo and speak with a tech to see how they handle signals (upscaling and passthrough).

I run all my video to the OPPO and only use my AVR for audio, as I only need 2 inputs, cable box and HTPC, this works great, and the video does appear sharper going through the OPPO then my Yamaha AVR. Also I recently removed my Darbee from the chain, it improved the handshake time and appears to have made no difference in video quality. eek.gif With my BenQ it did seem to add value, but with my JVC I really noticed nothing. I am sure I am about to get destroyed over this blaspheme, but thought I would put that out there.

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post #3785 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

I run all my video to the OPPO and only use my AVR for audio, as I only need 2 inputs, cable box and HTPC, this works great, and the video does appear sharper going through the OPPO then my Yamaha AVR. Also I recently removed my Darbee from the chain, it improved the handshake time and appears to have made no difference in video quality. eek.gif With my BenQ it did seem to add value, but with my JVC I really noticed nothing. I am sure I am about to get destroyed over this blaspheme, but thought I would put that out there.

I guess I just need to play around with different combinations to see which one looks best. I just need to be able to program my Harmony Touch remote to control all of this so my wife can figure it out easier. 5 remotes confuses her pretty bad so I'm trying to make things simpler for her when she wants to watch TV. And this is my main TV.

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post #3786 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

I run all my video to the OPPO and only use my AVR for audio, as I only need 2 inputs, cable box and HTPC, this works great, and the video does appear sharper going through the OPPO then my Yamaha AVR. Also I recently removed my Darbee from the chain, it improved the handshake time and appears to have made no difference in video quality. eek.gif With my BenQ it did seem to add value, but with my JVC I really noticed nothing. I am sure I am about to get destroyed over this blaspheme, but thought I would put that out there.

Thats the main function I use my Oppo for is the direct source to the projector. So, my blu ray, cable, and ps4 goes straight to the projector. Nothing gets in its way. My Pioneer AVR kind of messed with the image, now I don't have anything to interfere with the PQ. Plus, I know I'm getting the exact image to the projector every time, on top of one of the best scaler. I haven't heard of any avr that scales better
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post #3787 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post

I wonder why the DI just didn't shut down completely for fade to blacks. Maybe it would be too noticeable when it opened again?
That is what I am thinking. However, JVC has gone far enough with on/off CR with the DI enabled that I could see them allowing it to go full closed or have a shutter for that in the next couple of years. Maybe have that as a user option so if there are occasional artifacts people can choose to enable it or disable it separately from the general DI functionality.
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You don't want an iris to fully close, Dynamic or otherwise. What you want is a film camera shutter/ Open it full for everything except complete black and let the iris static or dynamic handle things normally as you will, but have the additional hardware, the shutter, close on black.
I was thinking about a shutter before, but the lens iris goes pretty closed and if they can do it physically I don't see having the iris go fully closed as a big disadvantage over a shutter. Maybe there is something I'm missing though. There can be heat issues, but the iris is already blocking a huge percentage of the light at its most closed in auto mode. If there are issues with the light going through a pinhole then maybe they could adjust the iris so when it gets to a certain closure the next step snaps to completely closed.

A shutter might be able to close quicker, but they would have to be careful about artifacts with that with things like transitions between completely black images and very dark images, much like they do with the DI.

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post #3788 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 11:43 AM
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Ok. So I can just buy an hdmi switch and connect all my sources to the Oppo direct and then output everything from the Oppo to the JVC with the existing HDMI cable and then use the second HDMI out on the Oppo to send the audio from EVERYTHING connected back to the AVR, or does it only output the bluray audio from the Oppo? Basically 5 devices go into the Oppo and the Oppo outputs to the JVC through 1 output and then all the audio from all 5 sources connected to the Oppo will go the the AVR through the second HMDI out put on the Oppo? Hope that made sense. LOL.

If I already have a darbee, could I put it directly after the hdmi switch and before it enters the Oppo? Would that give me the same effect as the built in darbee in the 103d? Any benefit with the built in darbee vs. the original one?

Finally, is it really worth it to do all this? Will I get a better picture from having the Oppo upscale to 4K vs. just sending a 1080p signal from my AVR and just using eshift 3 on the 1080p image? When you go into your info menu on the JVC, does it show the 3840 x 2160 res?

Thanks guys. Just got my 3D emitter and glasses and gotta test them out eek.gif
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post #3789 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Why would the Oppo has to pass through the avr? The oppo should do directly through the projector. Myself and many others just use the second hdmi output strictly for audio. I use my second projector with my avr and the hdmi output 2 but my main projector is direct source

Well, I pass my Oppo player output through my CX-A5000 so that I can view the various onscreen displays and menus from the preamp. I find these to be pretty valuable to me and well worth routing through the preamp to get (I have video processing in the CX-A5000 turned off).

Also, another feature I'd lose is when I'm streaming music through the Oppo and don't want to use my projector (almost always), I still have to have a display to make selections and that (an LCD PC monitor) is connected to the CX-A5000 as well.
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post #3790 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 01:12 PM
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Well, I pass my Oppo player output through my CX-A5000 so that I can view the various onscreen displays and menus from the preamp. I find these to be pretty valuable to me and well worth routing through the preamp to get (I have video processing in the CX-A5000 turned off).

I do the same in my system. I like the convenience of on screen display information too.

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post #3791 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Ok. So I can just buy an hdmi switch and connect all my sources to the Oppo direct and then output everything from the Oppo to the JVC with the existing HDMI cable and then use the second HDMI out on the Oppo to send the audio from EVERYTHING connected back to the AVR, or does it only output the bluray audio from the Oppo? Basically 5 devices go into the Oppo and the Oppo outputs to the JVC through 1 output and then all the audio from all 5 sources connected to the Oppo will go the the AVR through the second HMDI out put on the Oppo? Hope that made sense. LOL.

If I already have a darbee, could I put it directly after the hdmi switch and before it enters the Oppo? Would that give me the same effect as the built in darbee in the 103d? Any benefit with the built in darbee vs. the original one?

Finally, is it really worth it to do all this? Will I get a better picture from having the Oppo upscale to 4K vs. just sending a 1080p signal from my AVR and just using eshift 3 on the 1080p image? When you go into your info menu on the JVC, does it show the 3840 x 2160 res?

Thanks guys. Just got my 3D emitter and glasses and gotta test them out eek.gif

Before I got the Oppo 103 last year, I used my avr to upscale to get 1080p for my cable to send it to 4K. It looked ok, but when I got the Oppo, my cable looked so much better upscaled to 1080p. With my rs48, hdtv shows looked closed to blu rays. I know having the oppo upscale to 4k looks better than any avr doing the same.
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post #3792 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Ok. So I can just buy an hdmi switch and connect all my sources to the Oppo direct and then output everything from the Oppo to the JVC with the existing HDMI cable and then use the second HDMI out on the Oppo to send the audio from EVERYTHING connected back to the AVR, or does it only output the bluray audio from the Oppo? Basically 5 devices go into the Oppo and the Oppo outputs to the JVC through 1 output and then all the audio from all 5 sources connected to the Oppo will go the the AVR through the second HMDI out put on the Oppo? Hope that made sense. LOL.

If I already have a darbee, could I put it directly after the hdmi switch and before it enters the Oppo? Would that give me the same effect as the built in darbee in the 103d? Any benefit with the built in darbee vs. the original one?

Finally, is it really worth it to do all this? Will I get a better picture from having the Oppo upscale to 4K vs. just sending a 1080p signal from my AVR and just using eshift 3 on the 1080p image? When you go into your info menu on the JVC, does it show the 3840 x 2160 res?

Thanks guys. Just got my 3D emitter and glasses and gotta test them out eek.gif

The built in Darbee works in YCbCr 4:2:2, which I personally prefer from the Oppo. It is also software updatable vs the outboard box. But I would say the biggest improvement is that you don't have to deal with HDMI handshakes. The more HDMI devices in a chain, the more headaches occur.

As for Oppo 4K out vs JVC E-Shift 3, that is probably in the eye of the beholder. And that also depends on whether you want to use e-shift to begin with. I haven't been a fan yet with several of their projectors; not because it looks bad, but because it doesn't seem to add anything at all. And I like to keep my video chain as pure as possible, so I turn off video processing that doesn't seem to add any perceived benefit.

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post #3793 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 01:59 PM
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Before I got the Oppo 103 last year, I used my avr to upscale to get 1080p for my cable to send it to 4K. It looked ok, but when I got the Oppo, my cable looked so much better upscaled to 1080p. With my rs48, hdtv shows looked closed to blu rays. I know having the oppo upscale to 4k looks better than any avr doing the same.

Interesting. What cable box / provider are you using? I have Dish, and with the Hopper ( ha ha - I love hopping over commercials ) I just let it upscale. HDTV can look like Blu Ray - depending on what the networks do to the signal compression wise ( Fox seems to the the worst ).

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post #3794 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Interesting. What cable box / provider are you using? I have Dish, and with the Hopper ( ha ha - I love hopping over commercials ) I just let it upscale. HDTV can look like Blu Ray - depending on what the networks do to the signal compression wise ( Fox seems to the the worst ).

I had Dish at first, now I have DirectTV
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post #3795 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I had Dish at first, now I have DirectTV

Do you prefer DirectTV over Dish? Just wondering because I'm thinking of making the switch as well...

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post #3796 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 04:43 PM
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Do you prefer DirectTV over Dish? Just wondering because I'm thinking of making the switch as well...
DirectTV. I didn't like Dish too much
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post #3797 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

DirectTV. I didn't like Dish too much

Can you tell a difference in PQ? I could tell a difference when I switched from Comcast to Dish. Dish provided a cleaner picture.

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post #3798 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

Can you tell a difference in PQ? I could tell a difference when I switched from Comcast to Dish. Dish provided a cleaner picture.

It mainly depends on location. Dish just did not look as clean as the Direct TV in my area. The Oppo does make it look much better with both. I just think DirectTV gave me the better look. With FI engaged on my Mit HC8000, it looks terrific, better than my JVCs and DP LED.
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post #3799 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The built in Darbee works in YCbCr 4:2:2, which I personally prefer from the Oppo. It is also software updatable vs the outboard box. But I would say the biggest improvement is that you don't have to deal with HDMI handshakes. The more HDMI devices in a chain, the more headaches occur.

As for Oppo 4K out vs JVC E-Shift 3, that is probably in the eye of the beholder. And that also depends on whether you want to use e-shift to begin with. I haven't been a fan yet with several of their projectors; not because it looks bad, but because it doesn't seem to add anything at all. And I like to keep my video chain as pure as possible, so I turn off video processing that doesn't seem to add any perceived benefit.

Even if you send the 4K signal from the Oppo, doesn't the Eshift have to be active anyway? The only way JVC will display 4k is with it's eshifted pixels. Do you mean that it wont have to process the image as much because it's getting a native 4k signal and doesn't have to create a 4k image from two 1080 images?

Will the Oppo take all of it's inputs and then output them as bitstream audio back to the AVR throught it's second HDMI out? So I would still get Dolby True HD, etc in it's unmolested form? This would be great in getting rid of the AVR processing for video completely, and I'd only need an HDMI switch for getting all my sources to the Oppo.
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Anymore opinions on the Oppo 4K upscale vs. the JVC eshift upscale?

If you set the Oppo to 4K upscale, does the darbee still function? I was told the darbee does not process 4K signals, so wouldn't that be a waste of money if you have the JVC and upscale everything to 4K from the Oppo?
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post #3801 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

It mainly depends on location. Dish just did not look as clean as the Direct TV in my area. The Oppo does make it look much better with both. I just think DirectTV gave me the better look. With FI engaged on my Mit HC8000, it looks terrific, better than my JVCs and DP LED.

Sounds good, thanks. I'll have to do a little more research on pricing between Dish and DirectTV.

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post #3802 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Even if you send the 4K signal from the Oppo, doesn't the Eshift have to be active anyway? The only way JVC will display 4k is with it's eshifted pixels. Do you mean that it wont have to process the image as much because it's getting a native 4k signal and doesn't have to create a 4k image from two 1080 images?

Will the Oppo take all of it's inputs and then output them as bitstream audio back to the AVR throught it's second HDMI out? So I would still get Dolby True HD, etc in it's unmolested form? This would be great in getting rid of the AVR processing for video completely, and I'd only need an HDMI switch for getting all my sources to the Oppo.

What I'm saying is that if you don't care for e-shift or need it, what would be the point of even sending it 4K? But you can compare the JVC scaling to 4K for e-shift compared to sending 4K from the Oppo. I plan to in my review.

The Oppo will send the audio streams out to the AVR but not for high resolution sources like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD. But that shouldn't be an issue since only Blu-ray has these formats anyway and I'd imagine you'd use the Oppo to play those.

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post #3803 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

From many users, they have been using the Darbee and upscaling everything to 4k with the Sony 1000es. The Darbee should work still with the Oppo when upscaling to 4k

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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The Darbee processing chip in the Oppo comes after the chip that upscales to 1080p but before the chip that upscales 1080p to 4K. Thus any source 1080p or below can be processed by the Darbee chip built into the Oppo. If you have a stand alone Darblet, just place it before any device that upscales to 4K. The darbee process works best applied to the native resolution of the source whether it be 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. I doubt Darbeevision will even build a processor the handles 4K but I expect Darbee licensees will. These will not be cheap.
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From many users, they have been using the Darbee and upscaling everything to 4k with the Sony 1000es. The Darbee should work still with the Oppo when upscaling to 4k

So I think I understand. I send my 1080p signal/s to the Oppo and it will FIRST use the darbee to process the 1080p image and THEN send it to the 4K upscale chip to give you a.........darbeefied 4k upscaled image!

If I have the standalone darbee, I can't put it AFTER the oppo as it will not work correct? I would have to put it before it enters the Oppo, right? Maybe getting the 103D would be better then dealing with potential handshake issue anyway. I'm sure I could sell the Darbee for 100.00
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post #3804 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

What I'm saying is that if you don't care for e-shift or need it, what would be the point of even sending it 4K? But you can compare the JVC scaling to 4K for e-shift compared to sending 4K from the Oppo. I plan to in my review.

The Oppo will send the audio streams out to the AVR but not for high resolution sources like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD. But that shouldn't be an issue since only Blu-ray has these formats anyway and I'd imagine you'd use the Oppo to play those.

I look forward to your review. Do you know when you will do the comparison?

I also would be using it for PS4 and Xbox One which may support games at True HD or DTS Master. I also use an HTPC which I use to play my ripped BD from the hard drive which would also be High Res audio. What about standard dolby digital or DTS tracks? This kinda sucks then. Do you know why it wont pass HD audio sources back to the AVR? Can it be fixed in a firmware?

I found out that I can turn off all processing on my Onkyo by simply holding a few buttons. Can't I continue to send all my other sources to the Onkyo, and then use the output from the Onkyo to the Oppo and that way I get 4K upscale for all video and still get High Res audio for all my other sources?
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post #3805 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 05:52 PM
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What I'm saying is that if you don't care for e-shift or need it, what would be the point of even sending it 4K? But you can compare the JVC scaling to 4K for e-shift compared to sending 4K from the Oppo. I plan to in my review.

The Oppo will send the audio streams out to the AVR but not for high resolution sources like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD. But that shouldn't be an issue since only Blu-ray has these formats anyway and I'd imagine you'd use the Oppo to play those.
Just clarifying you mean the other sources Conan was talking about correct? Like directv, ect.

If having hdmi #1 connected to the projector and hdmi #2 connected to your avr, the avr will still get the high resolution audio correct? Sorry if it's an obvious answer pretty new to this still

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post #3806 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post

Just clarifying you mean the other sources Conan was talking about correct? Like directv, ect.

If having hdmi #1 connected to the projector and hdmi #2 connected to your avr, the avr will still get the high resolution audio correct? Sorry if it's an obvious answer pretty new to this still

yeah it will give you High Res audio through the second HDMI out to the AVR for blurays. It's just the inputs that wont pass the high res audio back to the AVR. It will pass LPCM if your device converts DTS HD, Dolby TRUE HD to LPCM before it sends it to the Oppo.

Now just wondering if there would be any negatives with passing my Onkyo (in TRUE straight through mode) to the Oppo and letting it process it to 4K.
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post #3807 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 07:43 PM
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JVC has gone far enough with on/off CR with the DI enabled that I could see them allowing it to go full closed or have a shutter for that in the next couple of years.
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I wonder if JVC could make the E-Shift element out of 'Smart Glass' or even a like coating , that darkens/clears when a voltage is applied, this could suppliment the DI and give it seamless operation?

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post #3808 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 10:49 PM
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I look forward to your review. Do you know when you will do the comparison?

I also would be using it for PS4 and Xbox One which may support games at True HD or DTS Master. I also use an HTPC which I use to play my ripped BD from the hard drive which would also be High Res audio. What about standard dolby digital or DTS tracks? This kinda sucks then. Do you know why it wont pass HD audio sources back to the AVR? Can it be fixed in a firmware?

I found out that I can turn off all processing on my Onkyo by simply holding a few buttons. Can't I continue to send all my other sources to the Onkyo, and then use the output from the Onkyo to the Oppo and that way I get 4K upscale for all video and still get High Res audio for all my other sources?

The Oppo will pass Dolby and DTS legacy but not the new formats. It may pass PCM though if you have the other devices decode before. You'd just have to try and see what works.

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post #3809 of 4136 Old 01-30-2014, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post

Just clarifying you mean the other sources Conan was talking about correct? Like directv, ect.

If having hdmi #1 connected to the projector and hdmi #2 connected to your avr, the avr will still get the high resolution audio correct? Sorry if it's an obvious answer pretty new to this still

Yes, it will get high rez from the Oppo for anything it's playing.

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post #3810 of 4136 Old 01-31-2014, 01:44 PM
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I would like to see JVC implement Dolby's HDR.
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