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post #3961 of 4136 Old 04-13-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

It would but that doesn't apply here. Even with the iris closed down all the way the new models aren't anywhere near the CR as with the DI. The DI is about 3-4x's the contrast still.

I realise that, however when the user iris set to -15 doesn't the DI have to work less aggressively to provide the same or better black floor?...less aggressive action less negatives?

If such a machine existed, say with a 1,500,000:1 native CR, would it not be preferable to a machine that needed to employ a DI to provide a 1,500,000:1 CR?

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post #3962 of 4136 Old 04-13-2014, 01:25 PM
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I was playing with the RS57 DI while looking at my Apple TV's "screen saver" mode (or whatever we'd call it these days), the pattern with the animal photos floating against the black background. I didn't think turning the DI on would make much difference as it wasn't really a "low APL" image. Nonetheless switching the DI on did seem to make a slight difference in the apparent contrast of the image - there seemed to be a slight brightening of the images against the black backdrop, which I presumed was due to the dynamic gamma activating. I've also noticed this effect in some other brighter scenes (that is mixed dark/bright images).
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post #3963 of 4136 Old 04-13-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Blee a little experiment, run the user iris at -15, but shrink the image, till the bright levels match the larger image, sit at the same ratio(closer now with the smaller image)

Purely from an image quality and dynamics point of view not size, with the ILA/DI engaged, your impressions would be interesting.

The picture looked dimmer but the perceived blackness on dark scenes looked similar with the aperture at -15 and 0. In fact, with the iris open, the blacks looked better because of the brightness
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post #3964 of 4136 Old 04-13-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

The picture looked dimmer but the perceived blackness on dark scenes looked similar with the aperture at -15 and 0. In fact, with the iris open, the blacks looked better because of the brightness

If the image was made smaller to match max brightness when the iris is O on the large image vs -15 on the smaller image, it should not any dimmer...just smaller.

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post #3965 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

If the image was made smaller to match max brightness when the iris is O on the large image vs -15 on the smaller image, it should not any dimmer...just smaller.

I forgot you asked me to shrink the image. Ill try that later. But the CR with the DI looks the same, I still prefer the iris open.
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post #3966 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:12 PM
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I forgot you asked me to shrink the image. Ill try that later. But the CR with the DI looks the same, I still prefer the iris open.

I can definitely understand that....brightness is seductive!

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post #3967 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:24 PM
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With the new iris I definitely like the picture more with my iris at 0.

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post #3968 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I realise that, however when the user iris set to -15 doesn't the DI have to work less aggressively to provide the same or better black floor?...less aggressive action less negatives?

If such a machine existed, say with a 1,500,000:1 native CR, would it not be preferable to a machine that needed to employ a DI to provide a 1,500,000:1 CR?

Absolutely. I'm just saying for the example you listed. If you are getting the peak white you want from the JVC with hte iris completely closed, more power to you!!

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post #3969 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I can definitely understand that....brightness is seductive!

That it is, but the funny thing is our eyes adapt to what they see very well. So going from a high brightness projector to a high contrast/how brightness projector would be easier than the opposite. It is actually pretty easy to go to a lower brightness so long as you don't jump back and forth. Your eye adapts over a very short amount of time. But if you are used to inky blacks like the JVC has, it is hard to go to a lower contrast display because your eye never adapts to that. Personally, I want both but at the moment I'm sticking with inky blacks.

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post #3970 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I can definitely understand that....brightness is seductive!

I don't think its much of the brightness, it just the CR would look the same with the iris open or closed on dark scenes.
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post #3971 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I can definitely understand that....brightness is seductive!

That it is, but the funny thing is our eyes adapt to what they see very well. So going from a high brightness projector to a high contrast/how brightness projector would be easier than the opposite. It is actually pretty easy to go to a lower brightness so long as you don't jump back and forth. Your eye adapts over a very short amount of time. But if you are used to inky blacks like the JVC has, it is hard to go to a lower contrast display because your eye never adapts to that. Personally, I want both but at the moment I'm sticking with inky blacks.

I like decent black levels, but I never get used to less brightness. Not anymore. In fact, I just changed my lamp out early. The brightness on my Lumis with only 7 hours of lamp time is very nice ! 12 foot lamberts looks dim. It makes me depressed! smile.gif

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post #3972 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:38 PM
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Is that the reason you drink so much expensive wine? smile.gifsmile.gif

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post #3973 of 4136 Old 04-14-2014, 02:52 PM
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If that were true Mark I'd switch back to 2Buck Chuck every time I installed a fresh lamp. Fact is, good wine tastes better, and a bright projector looks better. smile.gif

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post #3974 of 4136 Old 04-17-2014, 11:24 AM
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At high altitude you really need to substantial aerate the reds, cheap or expensive.

In case anyone doesn't know, 2 Buck Chuck, is a brand that Trader Joe's sells.

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post #3975 of 4136 Old 04-17-2014, 12:22 PM
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I'm at about 13.6 ftL with my RS4810 and that seems perfect to me (1.1 gain screen, 2:35, 108" wide, nearly 10 feet back, completely blacked out room).

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post #3976 of 4136 Old 04-17-2014, 03:02 PM
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Art has posted his review of a RS4910 at Projector Reviews. Some direct comparisons with a Sony VW600 are included.

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post #3977 of 4136 Old 04-17-2014, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
I'm at about 13.6 ftL with my RS4810 and that seems perfect to me (1.1 gain screen, 2:35, 108" wide, nearly 10 feet back, completely blacked out room).

I'm pretty much addicted to 16 - 18 foot lamberts in a dark theater. But that's just me. I need to change lamps more often but what the heck - you only live once !

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Has anyone done a detailed analysis on the JVC DI: User iris at 0 with DI vs user iris at -15 with DI(with smaller image size to match brightness of larger image at user iris at 0).......keen to hear of differences in image quality.

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post #3979 of 4136 Old 04-17-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Has anyone done a detailed analysis on the JVC DI: User iris at 0 with DI vs user iris at -15 with DI(with smaller image size to match brightness of larger image at user iris at 0).......keen to hear of differences in image quality.

I did it yesterday when I watched the new Hobbit. I paid attention to scenes where the DI worked. The dark scenes actually looked the same. I'm sure the two higher models would be a bigger difference. Going from 30k to 45k probably will not make a huge difference.
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post #3980 of 4136 Old 04-17-2014, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
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I'm pretty much addicted to 16 - 18 foot lamberts in a dark theater. But that's just me. I need to change lamps more often but what the heck - you only live once !

That would seem very bright to me.

However, even on my Panasonic 65" VT60 I only like 31 ftL in a dark room when a lot of people are at 35-40ftL (or more) on that display.

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post #3981 of 4136 Old 04-17-2014, 10:17 PM
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So I watched Avatar tonight which looked absolutely stunning but 5 or 6 times the picture flickered, and 4 or 5 times the picture flashed black for a split second.
Has anyone experienced this? Feels like an HDMI issue?

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post #3982 of 4136 Old 04-18-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I did it yesterday when I watched the new Hobbit. I paid attention to scenes where the DI worked. The dark scenes actually looked the same. I'm sure the two higher models would be a bigger difference. Going from 30k to 45k probably will not make a huge difference.

Thanks Blee.

I guess the advantage with closing the user iris down(as long as one is getting the peak white/brightness one wants) is the variation of CR when the DI is performing it's function is less...perhaps 10:1 when the user iris is open to 3:1 when the user iris is closed.

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post #3983 of 4136 Old 04-19-2014, 11:21 AM
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Using the 4910 DI I notice on a movie's end credits with white letters on a black backround the white lettering will be bright then get dim in the same scene then on the next set of white letters be bright again at first and get dim again ( it will not do this on every set of new lettering). I don't notice this on any other parts of the movie or if I turn the DI off- only on the end credits. Not sure if this has been discussed before. Just wondering if that is what others are experiencing and if that is normal DI behavior for this projector.
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post #3984 of 4136 Old 04-19-2014, 12:59 PM
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Using the 4910 DI I notice on a movie's end credits with white letters on a black backround the white lettering will be bright then get dim in the same scene then on the next set of white letters be bright again at first and get dim again ( it will not do this on every set of new lettering). I don't notice this on any other parts of the movie or if I turn the DI off- only on the end credits. Not sure if this has been discussed before. Just wondering if that is what others are experiencing and if that is normal DI behavior for this projector.

Thats how a DI works. The goal is to not notice it during the actual movie. The end credits should not really bother anyone, but some people can be bother by it
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post #3985 of 4136 Old 04-19-2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE-C View Post

Using the 4910 DI I notice on a movie's end credits with white letters on a black backround the white lettering will be bright then get dim in the same scene then on the next set of white letters be bright again at first and get dim again ( it will not do this on every set of new lettering). I don't notice this on any other parts of the movie or if I turn the DI off- only on the end credits. Not sure if this has been discussed before. Just wondering if that is what others are experiencing and if that is normal DI behavior for this projector.

Yeah, I think we all notice that on credits. I'm fine with it given the DI seems to give visible benefits in movie watching and I don't notice it, mostly, during the actual movie. I didn't notice the DI once last night watching Captain Philips which went back and forth a lot between super dark and bright scenes, and I even looked for it sometimes (this place is a curse!)
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post #3986 of 4136 Old 04-19-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE-C View Post

Using the 4910 DI I notice on a movie's end credits with white letters on a black backround the white lettering will be bright then get dim in the same scene then on the next set of white letters be bright again at first and get dim again ( it will not do this on every set of new lettering). I don't notice this on any other parts of the movie or if I turn the DI off- only on the end credits. Not sure if this has been discussed before. Just wondering if that is what others are experiencing and if that is normal DI behavior for this projector.

Joe...what happens during the credits, if the user iris is closed down to -15, does the DI pumping get visually less?

Thanks.

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post #3987 of 4136 Old 04-19-2014, 04:25 PM
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It isn't pumping as much as maximizing contrast based on APL. But with iris clamped the white level won't change much as the iris can only go down a bit more. JVC doesn't boost whites as much when the image is that dark, that is why some post credits are dim and some aren't. Depends on overall APL.

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post #3988 of 4136 Old 04-19-2014, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Joe...what happens during the credits, if the user iris is closed down to -15, does the DI pumping get visually less?

Thanks.
I haven't tried that but I would imagine it would just as Kris states.
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post #3989 of 4136 Old 04-19-2014, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Joe...what happens during the credits, if the user iris is closed down to -15, does the DI pumping get visually less?

Thanks.

Most have found about -7 iris & Auto2 to be the sweet spot for minimizing visible white blooming (use the movie The International Darin & Kris pointed to months ago when Armin Muehler-Stahl is being interrogated by Clive Owen).

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post #3990 of 4136 Old 04-20-2014, 12:39 AM
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Thanks gentlemen.....I'm trying to figure out what JVC nay do next...use a advanced next gen E-shift panel like a 4th panel to provide local dimming.....?

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