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post #4081 of 4136 Old 05-31-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

And the ISF says 12-14 fL when I went. I think these are loose standards at best or more like recommendations. The ONLY standard that actually maters is the mastering target as that will directly impact your perception of color, and I bet you'd find that most mastering houses use a variety of different displays all with a different measured brightness. Ultimately this comes down to user preference unless a clear standard comes about. The fact that REC709 doesn't have a luminance standard is puzzling since color brightness differences will make images look completely different.

But again, since I started writing for the industry over 10 years ago I've heard the standard for recommended brightness change constantly. And most of the numbers spouted now are levels that weren't even achievable on a large screen without massive 3-chip light canons until very recently.

I never said that HAS to be the target brightness standard. I'm just citing other governing bodies and what they think the standard should be. It all comes down to personal preference. Most, however, prefer a brighter image.
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post #4082 of 4136 Old 05-31-2014, 06:00 PM
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I never said that HAS to be the target brightness standard. I'm just citing other governing bodies and what they think the standard should be. It all comes down to personal preference. Most, however, prefer a brighter image.

I hear ya. I think people are getting pretty spoiled for bright images on big screens now since 3D came into the mix and upped the light output on projectors. I still like anywhere between 12 and 14 fL. More than that and I get fatigue and the wife complains. Especially in our black pit of a theater.

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post #4083 of 4136 Old 05-31-2014, 06:11 PM
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I am just above 13ftl in my batcave and it is bright enough for my needs.

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post #4084 of 4136 Old 06-01-2014, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I hear ya. I think people are getting pretty spoiled for bright images on big screens now since 3D came into the mix and upped the light output on projectors. I still like anywhere between 12 and 14 fL. More than that and I get fatigue and the wife complains. Especially in our black pit of a theater.

I used to get migraines when I had my HP screen, I haven't had one since I switched to a Carada CW. I used to like the fact that I could close the iris and get maximum contrast with the HP screen. With the new DI, I don't need a HP screen for that. I'm at 16ftL and its very pleasing.
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post #4085 of 4136 Old 06-01-2014, 03:07 PM
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My preference: 12 to 14 fL. For movies. For TV, brighter is better: watching hockey at 14 fL with all the lights off on my 126 wide screen is not as inspiring as watching it on a much smaller but brighter LED TV with some lights on.

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post #4086 of 4136 Old 06-01-2014, 05:31 PM
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I don't watch tv in my theater room. Strictly movies. I have a 65" VT50 plasma downstairs for tv. I also don't watch sports.

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post #4087 of 4136 Old 06-01-2014, 08:40 PM
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I don't watch tv in my theater room. Strictly movies. I have a 65" VT50 plasma downstairs for tv. I also don't watch sports.

I do exactly the same.

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post #4088 of 4136 Old 06-01-2014, 08:49 PM
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I have my jvc for movies only, my DPI LED for sports and hdtv. Recently, I have been watching TV downstairs on my tiny 60in. Its really relaxing and comfortable watching TV on my soft sectional rather than in my reclining HT chairs. Watching on a tv just makes my screen look that bigger
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post #4089 of 4136 Old 06-02-2014, 06:36 AM
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The only place that is more comfortable than my ht chairs is my bed. And, not all the time.

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post #4090 of 4136 Old 06-02-2014, 11:56 AM
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The only place that is more comfortable than my ht chairs is my bed. And, not all the time.

I used to be more relaxed in my leather recliners. Put just laying back on a cloth sectional is more relaxing. Me being 6'5", I put my legs all the put. I do fall asleep more
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post #4091 of 4136 Old 06-03-2014, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I have my jvc for movies only, my DPI LED for sports and hdtv. Recently, I have been watching TV downstairs on my tiny 60in. Its really relaxing and comfortable watching TV on my soft sectional rather than in my reclining HT chairs. Watching on a tv just makes my screen look that bigger

That's why we went with a sectional in our home theater instead of HT seating.

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post #4092 of 4136 Old 06-03-2014, 11:46 AM
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I only use my projectior and room for movies, so the power HT recline works great that way, but the sectional in the living room is a must.

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post #4093 of 4136 Old 06-03-2014, 12:02 PM
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I only use my projectior and room for movies, so the power HT recline works great that way, but the sectional in the living room is a must.

We have no " living room " - if we aren't in the home theater, we are either entertaining in the dining room ( table for 12 ) or we are in the pool !!

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post #4094 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 05:53 PM
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Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrggggggggggggh!!!!

I find Gamma the most frustrating thing with modern projectors. I have read set on 2.2, set on 2.4, set on some BT1. thingy.

I have a dark Batcave of a room, No lights at all and a 100" 1.3 gain screen.

What gamma do I gun for?

What is blu-ray authored in?

I tried 2.2 on my new projector and it looked great in shadow detail but the mid range looked a bit smokey washed out.
Then tried a 2.4 and the mid range looked okay however shadow detail was awful. I tried the dark increase function on 2.4 (put it on +7) and it improved shadow detail but looked kinda fake.

Any help would be appreciated.
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post #4095 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 06:22 PM
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When you say you tried "2.2" do you mean the setting labeled "2.2" or you measure it and that is what it measured as?

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post #4096 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 06:33 PM
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When you say you tried "2.2" do you mean the setting labeled "2.2" or you measure it and that is what it measured as?

I used the label 2.2.

I haven't got any measuring equipment. I really should but I find the whole thing overwhelming. I use the Spears and Munsil test disc.

Is there no right or wrong answer on Gamma? A quick net search gave all sorts of different answers. rolleyes.gif
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post #4097 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 06:56 PM
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Gamma should be adjusted with calibrating equipment. From my personal experience, a setting of 2.2 on the projector could mean 1.9 in real life (much too low). In my case, I must chose 2.5 from the JVC presets to get a real life of 2.2-2.25. Without any measuring equipment, you can never be sure...

My suggestion is: either measure it, of set it to what looks best to you, no matter the number.
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post #4098 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Badas View Post

I used the label 2.2.

I haven't got any measuring equipment. I really should but I find the whole thing overwhelming. I use the Spears and Munsil test disc.

Is there no right or wrong answer on Gamma? A quick net search gave all sorts of different answers. rolleyes.gif

I understand the idea of measuring gear to be overwhelming. It can be.

The reason I ask: Just because the JVC says a particular setting is "2.2" doesn't mean it really is, and almost assuredly it isn't 2.2 at every point between black and white.

So, even if you decided you wanted "2.2" or "2.4" just selecting that option may not really get you there.

And you are right, although 2.2 is often cited as "correct" in reality I cannot find an output gamma specific anywhere in REC709 which is the HD spec....

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post #4099 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 07:21 PM
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^

Thanks for the answers guys.

I don't think I will ever get into measuring equipment. I know with the projector and other equipment I have I really should.

However. Life is just too damn complicated and I really don't want another. It also is not a $$ thing. I spent US$40K on equipment so far this year. Plus another US$1900 on headphone gear in the last few days. So another $500-$1000 wouldn't matter.

Unfortunately no one in our country (New Zealand) do calibrations.

So I will muck around by eye. See if I can get something I like.
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It also is not a $$ thing. I spent US$40K on equipment so far this year. Plus another US$1900 on headphone gear in the last few days. So another $500-$1000 wouldn't matter.
Well, gee, thanks for letting us know that you're flush with cash! We can stop worrying now. rolleyes.gif
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Unfortunately no one in our country (New Zealand) do calibrations.
It took me literally less than a minute to find a place that does calibrations in NZ. I'm sure there are others. It just seems to me that if it isn't "a $$ thing" you should spend another bit of money that "wouldn't matter" on getting that US$40K system calibrated. It's penny-wise and pound-foolish to drop that much money on a good system and not have it calibrated.

Sorry if this is harsh, but e-bragging about how much cash you've spent is petulant and childish. I can assure you that others have spent many times that amount on their HT systems and don't feel the need to flaunt it.
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post #4101 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 08:54 PM
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Well, gee, thanks for letting us know that you're flush with cash! We can stop worrying now. rolleyes.gif

Was not my intention. I just didn't want it to be thought that I was being cheap not springing for a calibration system.

I actually might if I can't get the picture dialed in.
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post #4102 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 09:17 PM
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If money isn't a problem, get an auto-cal system. For me, it's a no-brainer. I got CalMAN Enthusiast with the Lumagen Mini and C6 colorometer. But there are others that work just as well. Once you put in the time to learn (which isn't much) it's a simple procedure to get a really nice gamma. And you'll find (surprised the heck out of me!) that a good gamma is as important as good color for picture quality. Proper lighting in a movie is really stunning. Sunlight streaming in through a window, lighting up rich fabrics and paint of the interior... very realistic. And, once you have this system it will be useful as projectors come and go through your system.
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post #4103 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 09:25 PM
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If money isn't a problem, get an auto-cal system. For me, it's a no-brainer. I got CalMAN Enthusiast with the Lumagen Mini and C6 colorometer. But there are others that work just as well. Once you put in the time to learn (which isn't much) it's a simple procedure to get a really nice gamma. And you'll find (surprised the heck out of me!) that a good gamma is as important as good color for picture quality. Proper lighting in a movie is really stunning. Sunlight streaming in through a window, lighting up rich fabrics and paint of the interior... very realistic. And, once you have this system it will be useful as projectors come and go through your system.

Yip. I think I will have to bite the bullet and get into it. rolleyes.gif F*ck. Didn't really want to.

I will play around for a little longer. If I decide to go down that road I will ask for the best reasonable learners solution to go for.
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post #4104 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Badas View Post

I used the label 2.2.

I haven't got any measuring equipment. I really should but I find the whole thing overwhelming. I use the Spears and Munsil test disc.

Is there no right or wrong answer on Gamma? A quick net search gave all sorts of different answers. rolleyes.gif

The gamma can vary despite the label, it's difficult to get it right without a meter. for ~ $600 you can get a calibrated meter + easy to use software.

A great setup is that meter/software kit + the mini 3D video processor. you can run an auto-cal + BT.1886 gamma and it's going to look great.

That projector is their flagship model for contrast, it's begging for a proper calibration.
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post #4105 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 09:34 PM
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Yip. I think I will have to bite the bullet and get into it. rolleyes.gif F*ck. Didn't really want to.

....

Well, that you're wrong about. The truth is, you really, really do want to get it! You'll love it. There's no "bummer" about it. Not only will you get great gamma, you'll also be able to get colors to behave well across various saturations and luminances. It's remarkable color grading technology to have in your home and it makes a big difference!
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post #4106 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 09:43 PM
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It is really worth it if you are going to spend so much on a projector. As money is not a factor, it only makes sense. Plus, if money was a factor, calibrating gear is a small fraction if you compare it to the actual projector and screen. Once its calibrated, you will appreciate the difference. Its a definite must
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post #4107 of 4136 Old 06-04-2014, 09:50 PM
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Yip. If I don't get it right in the next few days I will get a calibration kit.

I did my last projector (Cineversum Blackwing 3) by eye and I loved the results. I just can't get this one dialed in. Spent hours last night.

One thing I could be doing wrong???

I am sending Y,Cr,Cb 4:4:4 no deep colour from my two Oppo BDP 103D's.

I have the projector set on the Super white so I can see the above white info R235 and higher. I then raised the contrast to clip R242 and higher. Reason being I wanted to let a bit of the above white info in.

However will engaging Superwhite screw with the rest of the greyscale?

Will I be better of setting it on Standard and set the contrast to show up to R235?

I really appreciate all the help guys.

Also. I will let you guys into a secrete. I am actually colourblind. So I have never been fussy on colour. No point. However a colourblind person has a big perception to greyscale. That is what I'm having a problem with. If I get the calibration kit I will still have problems getting the colour correct due to my defect.
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post #4108 of 4136 Old 06-05-2014, 10:37 AM
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I have an i1 display pro and I could not live without it. Even if to only adjust the grey scale. Makes a very noticeable difference, anyone who spends as much as we do for a JVC really ought to have the ability to properly calibrate their rig, a test disc is a poor substitute.

James Reid:D
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post #4109 of 4136 Old 06-05-2014, 10:39 AM
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If anyone is looking for a pro calibrator, I highly recommend Chad B. He's got a ton of experience with front projectors and does outstanding work traveling to a lot of regions in the U.S. He uses a Jeti 1211. He also owns a JVC FP himself. smile.gif

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post #4110 of 4136 Old 06-05-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badas View Post

Yip. If I don't get it right in the next few days I will get a calibration kit.

I did my last projector (Cineversum Blackwing 3) by eye and I loved the results. I just can't get this one dialed in. Spent hours last night.

One thing I could be doing wrong???

I am sending Y,Cr,Cb 4:4:4 no deep colour from my two Oppo BDP 103D's.

I have the projector set on the Super white so I can see the above white info R235 and higher. I then raised the contrast to clip R242 and higher. Reason being I wanted to let a bit of the above white info in.

However will engaging Superwhite screw with the rest of the greyscale?

Will I be better of setting it on Standard and set the contrast to show up to R235?

I really appreciate all the help guys.

Also. I will let you guys into a secrete. I am actually colourblind. So I have never been fussy on colour. No point. However a colourblind person has a big perception to greyscale. That is what I'm having a problem with. If I get the calibration kit I will still have problems getting the colour correct due to my defect.

Whether you choose superwhite or standard is really a personal preference. But regardless of which one you choose I would recommend leaving contrast set at default as it affects the linearity of the grayscale/gamma quite a bit. So you're either gonna clip at 235 or 255. I personally use standard so I can use low lamp mode and get the light output I want and maximize contrast. If I use Super White I have to use high lamp mode. High lamp mode is fine but since I'm used to absolutely NO noise from the fan in low lamp I have a hard time getting used to even a little noise in high lamp. Even if the only time I notice it is when there isn't a movie playing or if I really listen for it during a really quiet passage. Go figure.
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